Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

Drumpot

DeanAustin wrote: »

I’m a Spurs fan and I have to say that this post really saddens me. If you’re likening your football club to burgers or iPhones then you don’t get it.

The post stinks of entitlement. Supporting your club through thick and thin was there long before anyone associated marketing with football.

Agree totally.

Fair weather fan is the very definition of somebody who will only support their team when it’s doing well. I feel the same applies to united.

No club deserves a right to be best or demand entertaining football. The prawn sandwich brigade was a famous Keane phrase when united were at their peak and the crowds at Old Trafford were not great at helping the team when it was struggling in games they expected to win.

Oddly enough I do think it’s improved in the last few years as proper fans start to get to games again. I couldn’t get over the support Jose got after the spurs defeat. I remember I was at a 0-0 draw at home to I think Middlesbrough and the crowd weren’t as forgiving to a SAF team!

I support Jose cause I think he has more on field ambition then the club. He wanted to strengthen the first team and the club didn’t support him. Every player has a price. The club can afford the players he wanted, that wasn’t the problem. Whether Jose was staying or going the team needed strengthening so it’s not accurate to say the club didn’t want to buy Jose players, they made the team weaker by doing little to nothing and made the team/managers job harder.

The city project was 10 years in the making. They started off spending way more then united are spending now , still spend more then united and did it for way longer. I imagine the owners of united have accepted they can’t or won’t compete directly which is why we have a mish mash transfer policy and are building up a trail of failed managers.

Our club is not comparable with Liverpool who are in a more enviable position of being able to build slowly with less pressure and no real ramifications to their manager or players if they don’t succeed. I must also add its taken that club 30 years to get to the stage where they can mount a decent challange.

In the past we could fall back on SAF genius. His 2013 winning squad wasn’t his Best But he knew what was needed to win leagues. How many of that squad went to big clubs or bigger things? He had the exact kind of players he could work with and I think Jose is the same. United needed to put absolute faith in Jose cause he has done enough in his career to deserve it. There literally isn’t any other manager we can get with the same experience as the one we have.

The club can sell Pogba and not lose a penny. If he doesn’t work with Jose then sell him. Jose got united second with two big players struggling to play under him (Sanchez and Pogba). Some people think Jose’s teams have no structure. Imagine if he has players who performed for him and followed his instructions. Do people actually consider the other side of this coin? Jose got 2nd with all this crap going on!!!!

I actually think people under estimate the damage a Paul Pogba can do to a team. A player not performing, throwing their weight around, not getting dropped (rewarded no matter what they do) and getting positive attention as if they are a victim of bad management. He’s a massive liability and his contributions on the pitch for united are not worth it. I would rather have 100mil to spend on players who don’t flip a coin before a game to decide what level of effort to put in.

Weepsie

Pete Moss wrote: »

I struggle to think of any other example of a major organisation with such an apparent lack of cohesive strategy. Since SAF left the team has become this Frankenstein made-up of players brought in to back three different managers, who all have a different style to management and tactical approach.

This. Everyone points to SAF and his succession was a total failure. It was always going to be an impossible task to follow up, whether you had Ancelloti, Mourinho, Klopp, etc etc at the time.

Just as important at the same time was the departure of David Gill. Woodward is a brilliant financial manager, and is overseeing success despite the on pitch issues however, he didn't have whatever Gill had that gave him an understanding of the workings of football.

Far too many transfers seem to be for the sake of vanity or to appease fans and sell shirts. Pogba has been on a whole a failure. I don't care what people say. You shouldn't have to make lots of tactical accomodations to suit one player that makes the entire team inflexible.

He has been told from a young age just how good he is, and he believes it. For all his talent, he lacks the discipline and application to in fact be a consistently good world class midfielder or attacking midfielder. France could have easily won the world cup without him given their depth of talent, Juventus have carried on without him and he was the least important of their 3 midfielders.

When Berbatov was there, he'd try things that amazed me, and it seemed he was smarter than the rest of the team and they just didn't understand. I see the same thing with Mata. He is a magician who can open defences and runs off the ball and follows up passes with his own runs. Neither shout at others because the players around them are not on their wave length.

Pogba does something and it doesn't work and he points fingers. He overcomplicates the game. Sometimes he'll score a good goal, or sometimes he'll get a wonderful pass off or an assist, but he doesn't back it up for 90 minutes a game.

Gerrard was lambasted for his Hiollywood passes by rival fans, but he made sure he was there at the end of any move, or he drove on his teammates. Pogba puts his hands on his hips and pouts a lot.

Hopefully, PSG or someone are dumb enough to take him. He can be indulged there where they stroll to the league title but his attitude stinks and he shouldn't be at the club.

bangkok

Fred The Red wrote: »

As another example, does anyone not wonder why the likes of Mata, Smalling (and I have been forgiving of him personally), Herrera, Martial did not get selected or play in the first 11 for their relevant international teams in the world cup gone by?
If Martial is so good why wasn't he part of a World Cup winning side?

These are the types who some are depending on to challenge for the PL title in comparison to the caliber of player City have.
City are the benchmark. They are the champions. That's is what we are up against.

Sane didnt make germany squad and they were awful.

Martial didnt make france squad as they had an excellent squad and he didnt play enough this year

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Sane didnt make germany squad and they were awful.

Martial didnt make france squad as they had an excellent squad and he didnt play enough this year

Ah great one player.

And completely avoid the point I made.

So Martial wasn't good enough to make the squad then.

bangkok

Mourinho signed....

Lindelof. Flop

Bailly. Flop

Sanchez. Flop

Mkhitarayan. Flop

Matic. Solid

Pogba. Hit/miss

Ibra. Class

Fred. Too early

Dalot. Potential

Lukaku. Hit/miss

bangkok

Fred The Red wrote: »

Ah great one player.

And completely avoid the point I made.

So Martial wasn't good enough to make the squad then.

France had a unreal squad... hence why they won world cup. No shame him not making it. Prob would have if sanchez wasnt signed

beno619

bangkok wrote: »

Sane didnt make germany squad and they were awful.

Martial didnt make france squad as they had an excellent squad and he didnt play enough this year

Martial made the second or third last France squad before the world cup, he didn't make the World cup squad because he played ****e towards the end of the season.

Backstreet Moyes

I think Lukaku is shattered and is in need of a rest.

The same as Kane.

I would like to see Lukaku rested but every game is a must win game and we don't have a good enough back up striker.

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

Mourinho signed....

Lindelof. Flop

Bailly. Flop

Sanchez. Flop

Mkhitarayan. Flop

Matic. Solid

Pogba. Hit/miss

Ibra. Class

Fred. Too early

Dalot. Potential

Lukaku. Hit/miss

No he didn’t sign them, the club did. Which ones were players Jose identified and which ones were the ones met the clubs criteria?

Oh wait we don’t know for sure. Managers have to publically support signed players while they are still in that job so any quotes you have will be them towing the line.

Like the way LVG only spoke out about the clubs transfer policy after he left. He was told Shaw and Herrera were signing when he joined. They were identified Over a year before LVG joined. This is irrefutable proof that the club has its own transfer strategy...

Incidentally, in spite of some of these failed signings the club has its best league position finish since SAF left. So what does that tell us about Jose?

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

France had a unreal squad... hence why they won world cup. No shame him not making it. Prob would have if sanchez wasnt signed

If Martial hadn't just given up on playing he would have took Thauvin's spot easily.

Drumpot

pjohnson wrote: »

If Martial hadn't just given up on playing he would have took Thauvin's spot easily.

Yeh France only have room for one petulant player who selectively shows up and that’s reserved for Pogba who proved when he needs to put the head down for a few weeeks he can be the top player that he hints at once every few games for united.

yourdeadwright

GSPfan wrote: »

I’d suggest you all take a year out from being a Manchester United customer. This idea that you support the club through thick and thin is a marketing ploy designed to make you feed them with money without them having to deliver anything of worth.
I love Burger King but if they changed the taste of their food to something unrecognisable from what I love, I’d stop eating their food.
I love IPhones but if the product became something I believe was not worth the price tag (which happened a year ago), I would not buy their product.

Do you enjoy Prawn sambo's by any chance

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

If Martial hadn't just given up on playing he would have took Thauvin's spot easily.

How do you know that? Thauvin had a brilliant season.

bangkok

Nuts102 wrote: »

I think Lukaku is shattered and is in need of a rest.

The same as Kane.

I would like to see Lukaku rested but every game is a must win game and we don't have a good enough back up striker.

Lukaku shouldnt have been near the squad last night. Carabao cup game. Should have been in the stand with pogba shaw and a few others

So who should have played as Striker? :P
Lee Grant

TitianGerm

Fred The Red wrote: »

So who should have played as Striker? :P
Lee Grant

Rashford?

TitianGerm

TitianGerm wrote: »

Rashford?

Suspended

Mitch Connor

I see on here, and elsewhere, massive criticism of Lukaku.

I like the guy. I think he has been particularly rubbish in the last couple of games specifically, but in general I think he is a very good player.

I can accept he isn't utter world class - but when I see people say we need to replace him with a world class player... i just don't know Who TF they are talking about.

What world class striker

1. Is available.
2. United could actually sign.
3. Would suit the lead the line striker formation Jose, our current manager, is utterly wed to.

I'd love Kane, but United are not going to spend the 150-200 million needed to sign him, and I don't think Spurs would sell him to us. Who else is there? Honestly?

Utopia Parkway

Drumpot wrote: »

Our club is not comparable with Liverpool who are in a more enviable position of being able to build slowly with less pressure and no real ramifications to their manager or players if they don’t succeed.

You think there is no pressure at Liverpool? Just ask Roy Hodgson or even Brendan Rodgers.

There is no pressure on Klopp because A. The results are generally good. B. The football is great and there is visible progress. And C. The fans actually like him.

There may come a point where even more is demanded but you will get a lot of leeway if the fans are happy with what they are watching on the pitch and spending their hard earned on every weekend.

Rossi IRL

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Pogba can **** off too. give it to somebody who at least gives a ****. Really wish he never came back and sooner he leaves the better. Don't even care if he goes on a free. A cancer on the club

The "cancer" of our club is one of a handful who are turning up everyweek (apart from Brighton where nobody turned up). The only players in contention for our player of the year so far are....

Best so far....

Shaw
Pogba
De Gea
Fellaini


Have shown signs of improvement.....

Smalling
Lindeloff

Players who have been pure ****e or have not been good enough to replace the pure ****e....

Sanchez
Lukaku
Mata
Martial
Rashford
Matic
Herrera
Romero
Bailly
Jones
Valencia
Young
Darmian
Lingard
McTominay
Rojo

Dalot, Fred and Grant get more time as they are new.

Have i missed anyone?

But of course Pogba is the cancer of the club. What about the 16 others who are anonymous and get **** all blame.

pjohnson

Rossi IRL wrote: »

The "cancer" of our club is one of a handful who are turning up everyweek (apart from Brighton where nobody turned up). The only players in contention for our player of the year so far are....

Best so far....

Shaw
Pogba
De Gea
Fellaini


Have shown signs of improvement.....

Smalling
Lindeloff

Players who have been pure ****e or have not been good enough to replace the pure ****e....

Sanchez
Lukaku
Mata
Martial
Rashford
Matic
Herrera
Romero
Bailly
Jones
Valencia
Young
Darmian
Lingard
McTominay
Rojo

Dalot, Fred and Grant get more time as they are new.

Have i missed anyone?

But of course Pogba is the cancer of the club. What about the 16 others who are anonymous and get **** all blame.

Are the other 16 captains supposed to encourage/drive their team on the pitch?
Are the other 16 always whinging off in interviews?

TitianGerm

Fred The Red wrote: »

Suspended

Oh yea. He was probably the one earmarked to start up top tonight before the red card I'd assume?

Actually you've had a few reds in the last few weeks.

yourdeadwright

Huge problem now is if Pogba downs tools and United's results continue to be bad,
Jose has just giving the media and fans a stick to bash him with ,
When a manager decides to drop or scold a top player he must get the results to back his choice,
 Jose may have giving the board there reason to sack him .
,A lot depends on how Pogba now reacts ,Lose the weekend and sh8t will really hit the fan

The_Kew_Tour

Rossi IRL wrote: »

The "cancer" of our club is one of a handful who are turning up everyweek (apart from Brighton where nobody turned up). The only players in contention for our player of the year so far are....

Best so far....

Shaw
Pogba
De Gea
Fellaini


Have shown signs of improvement.....

Smalling
Lindeloff

Players who have been pure ****e or have not been good enough to replace the pure ****e....

Sanchez
Lukaku
Mata
Martial
Rashford
Matic
Herrera
Romero
Bailly
Jones
Valencia
Young
Darmian
Lingard
McTominay
Rojo

Dalot, Fred and Grant get more time as they are new.

Have i missed anyone?

But of course Pogba is the cancer of the club. What about the 16 others who are anonymous and get **** all blame.

Do you think Fergie would have kept Pogba who sulks like a bitch every chance he gets?

Keane was thrown out
Sharpe, Kanchelskis Beckham, Tevez are just some examples of players that left when Fergie threw out once they got little too big headed..

Why is it different now? Of course there are problems but that prick is right up there and is no loss when he goes.if we sold him on a free it would not bother me

Rossi IRL

pjohnson wrote: »

Are the other 16 captains supposed to encourage/drive their team on the pitch?
Are the other 16 always whinging off in interviews?

Pogba is not captain

He was only stand in captain while Valencia the captain wasn't fit.

TitianGerm

TitianGerm wrote: »

Oh yea. He was probably the one earmarked to start up top tonight before the red card I'd assume?

Actually you've had a few reds in the last few weeks.

My point was addressed to the poster who claimed Lukaku shouldn't have started and I assume because he is a first 11 player and shouldn't be playing in the Caraboa cup.
If that point is made then at least state who comes in to replace him.

paulbok

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Pogba is not captain

He was only stand in captain while Valencia the captain wasn't fit.

He wasn't French captain either, but that didn't stop him acting like one (at least when the cameras were on him).

Either way on that point, he is still mouthing off to the press at every opportunity. How can any manager be expected to put up with that?

Rossi IRL

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Do you think Fergie would have kept Pogba who sulks like a bitch every chance he gets?

Keane was thrown out
Sharpe, Kanchelskis Beckham, Tevez are just some examples of players that left when Fergie threw out once they got little too big headed..

Why is it different now? Of course there are problems but that prick is right up there and is no loss when he goes.if we sold him on a free it would not bother me

Keane was thrown out when he was well past his best. He said plenty of things while in his prime and got away with it.

Wasnt Tevez only on loan?

Beckham, meh, solid player but wasn't all that, his brand was better then his ability.

Sharpe and Kanchelsius I don't remember much of, I was a young lad.

bangkok

Fred The Red wrote: »

My point was addressed to the poster who claimed Lukaku shouldn't have started and I assume because he is a first 11 player and shouldn't be playing in the Caraboa cup.
If that point is made then at least state who comes in to replace him.

Martial or sanchez up front. Sanchez only played 60min v wolves

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Martial or sanchez up front. Sanchez only played 60min v wolves

Ah you decide to answer.

So Sanchez is good to play in Caraboa cup then.
Negates your first point.

And if Martial plays up front then who plays on the left?

Drumpot

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

You think there is no pressure at Liverpool? Just ask Roy Hodgson or even Brendan Rodgers.

There is no pressure on Klopp because A. The results are generally good. B. The football is great and there is visible progress. And C. The fans actually like him.

There may come a point where even more is demanded but you will get a lot of leeway if the fans are happy with what they are watching on the pitch and spending their hard earned on every weekend.

United is worth twice Liverpool and as many of your fans point out when it suits , united spends a lot more money. That lends itself to a different expectation that neither Liverpool nor Dortmund suffer.

I’m sorry but Liverpool are underdogs, united aren’t and klopp is more comfortable in that environment. When he has managed a super club we will see how he gets on with pressure in his first season. Jose won the league cup, euro league, got united to their best league position in half a decade and was still under pressure.

I’m not insulting Liverpool BTW but you Guys can’t slag United’s spending and then act as though the clubs have realistic matching ambitions/pressures. A salah or Torres or Suarez would struggle at united in the opposite way Liverpool was able to build their team around an unproven forward. United can’t afford the luxury....

Rossi IRL

paulbok wrote: »

He wasn't French captain either, but that didn't stop him acting like one (at least when the cameras were on him).

Either way on that point, he is still mouthing off to the press at every opportunity. How can any manager be expected to put up with that?

Hey I said it at the time that he should not of mouthed off to the press, if he did mouth off.

It was reported that he said we should attack better and the movement up front wasn't good enough.

We have been saying that on here for years now ffs.

yourdeadwright

A huge issues is now if Jose goes what do United do,
They should get manger with a plan give him 3 season to build a defence a midfield and a forward line, but the problem is the longer United go without a league title challenge the more impatient the fans get,
If someone did come in the keeper is the only one who'd be odds on to start games, everyone else can be replaced, That's quite shocking , maybe Lakaku but if you want a fluid forward line I don't think he's your man,
Zidane's been linked but at Real he had a great team to start with, In fact did he ever buy a good player for them ?
Would he be trusted to spend the million United need to having never spent money before ,

The_Kew_Tour

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Keane was thrown out when he was well past his best. He said plenty of things while in his prime and got away with it.

Wasnt Tevez only on loan?

Beckham, meh, solid player but wasn't all that, his brand was better then his ability.

Sharpe and Kanchelsius I don't remember much of, I was a young lad.

Don't agree with a lot of what you say. Keane was honest in few interviews and was mostly having a gripe with players and that Prawn Sandwich comment was a rare thing rather then a everyweek occurrence. It was once a season type of stuff not every week. Keane was backing up his stiff on the field too unlike Pogba.

Tevez was on loan but if you remember the Man City game from May 2009 where he tried win over the fans and Fergie just looked on no care in world. Tevez was trouble and would have easily been signed had he wanted to.

Beckham no comment sadly I disagree 100000% there.

In my opinion Pogba is toxic and a drama queen but worst of all seems be playing for himself rather then the club.

Just my 2c

And to add to that Keane was actually the captain, unlike Pogba

bangkok

Fred The Red wrote: »

Ah you decide to answer.

So Sanchez is good to play in Caraboa cup then.
Negates your first point.

And if Martial plays up front then who plays on the left?

Lukaku needs a break.

Sanchez doesnt.

Lukaku went away with belgium on internationals for 2 weeks. Sanchez stayed at home and rested.

Lukaku played in world cup all summer, sanchez didnt.

Lukaku played 90min at weekend, sanchez didnt.

Sanchez up top, martial and mata behind. 3 in midfield

Drumpot

yourdeadwright wrote: »

A huge issues is now if Jose goes what do United do,
They should get manger with a plan give him 3 season to build a defence a midfield and a forward line, but the problem is the longer United go without a league title challenge the more impatient the fans get,
If someone did come in the keeper is the only one who'd be odds on to start games, everyone else can be replaced, That's quite shocking , maybe Lakaku but if you want a fluid forward line I don't think he's your man,
Zidane's been linked but at Real he had a great team to start with, In fact did he ever buy a good player for them ?
Would he be trusted to spend the million United need to having never spent money before ,

Or maybe the club should Double down on the best coach we have had since SAF retired and let the shackles off on transfers. Let Jose be more involved and if he wants to sell Pogba and/or martial , then do it.

I could see that leading to success way quicker then the club getting in somebody knew and keeping within their current transfer policy of the last 5 years.

Rossi IRL

yourdeadwright wrote: »

A huge issues is now if Jose goes what do United do,

We need a long term strategy that lasts longer than one manager.

Board needs to choose how they want us to play and develop from there and hire the right people, not just manager but everybody involved from top to bottom needs to be singing from the same hym sheet.

bangkok

If west ham beat us this saturday and we play poorly again it should be the end of the road for jose

The_Kew_Tour

bangkok wrote: »

If west ham beat us this saturday and we play poorly again it should be the end of the road for jose

And Bring in?

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

And Bring in?

Prediction on Reply 1: Pochettino
Prediction on Reply 2: Zidane

bangkok

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

And Bring in?

Wouldnt mind seeing conte given the job until summer at least, or zidane, or lauren blanc. 3 managers that are free agents as well

bangkok

Fred The Red wrote: »

Prediction on Reply 1: Pochettino
Prediction on Reply 2: Zidane

Great input as usual

Utopia Parkway

Drumpot wrote: »

United is worth twice Liverpool and as many of your fans point out when it suits , united spends a lot more money. That lends itself to a different expectation that neither Liverpool nor Dortmund suffer.

I’m sorry but Liverpool are underdogs, united aren’t and klopp is more comfortable in that environment. When he has managed a super club we will see how he gets on with pressure in his first season. Jose won the league cup, euro league, got united to their best league position in half a decade and was still under pressure.

I’m not insulting Liverpool BTW but you Guys can’t slag United’s spending and then act as though the clubs have realistic matching ambitions/pressures. A salah or Torres or Suarez would struggle at united in the opposite way Liverpool was able to build their team around an unproven forward. United can’t afford the luxury....

Dalglish left the Liverpool job because of the pressure and he had league titles under his belt. Hodgson was chased off after 6 months. Rodgers was gone just over a year after almost winning the league. The idea that the Liverpool job is somehow a no pressure holiday camp is fairytale stuff. If the results and the quality of the football are not there the manager is going to be in trouble.

Anyway this is a United discussion but had to pull you up on that.

The_Kew_Tour

Fred The Red wrote: »

Prediction on Reply 1: Pochettino
Prediction on Reply 2: Zidane

I would not have huge amount of faith in either to really have that vision to really turn things around within a season or two.

Both good managers but Pochettino has proven he lacks something(as things stand)to really be consistent and get them over the line.

The Buck has to stop with the manger but we have other problems too like the ego's of few players especially Pogba, and a boards which is all about money and not trophies.

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Wouldnt mind seeing conte given the job until summer at least, or zidane, or lauren blanc. 3 managers that are free agents as well

Conte :P

Short term fix again with no clarification of the multiple issues identified relating to players and at board level.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I would not have huge amount of faith in either to really have that vision to really turn things around within a season or two.

Both good managers but Pochettino has proven he lacks something(as things stand)to really be consistent and get them over the line.

The Buck has to stop with the manger but we have other problems too like the ego's of few players especially Pogba, and a boards which is all about money and not trophies.

Crux of the issue.

The_Kew_Tour

bangkok wrote: »

Wouldnt mind seeing conte given the job until summer at least, or zidane, or lauren blanc. 3 managers that are free agents as well

The last thing we need is something Short term. In that case just give it to McKenna

Rossi IRL

Pochettino I reckon would flop.

I honestly don't know who would replace Mourihno.

TitianGerm

Fred The Red wrote: »

Prediction on Reply 1: Pochettino
Prediction on Reply 2: Zidane

Sean Dyche