Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

Drumpot

Your Airbag wrote: »

I really wish this revisionisim of Jose would stop. Early Jose was hungry and a different animal than what we have seen in the last 3 years, this one of the greatest manager of the last whatever doesn't and shouldnt buy him any more time when he is currently underpreforming.

If your targets dropped this much at any other high pressure job you would be in trouble too and saying to managment "but yeah 4 years ago i was always on time and meeting the targets and deadlines" would cut you little slack.

What are you talking about? He’s been the most successful coach we have had since SAF left. He inherited a sh*t squad. And the club , contrary to some people’s misguided belief, is very involved in signing, selling and identifying player targets.

The_Kew_Tour

paulbok wrote: »

Oh I'd guess we'll hear all about it later off Pogbas Instagram or from his agent.

It will be interesting to see when the footage was taken

Drumpot

super_furry wrote: »

How do people think Mourinho can turn things around? Is it a case of waiting until January and giving him money?

And selling Pogba if he doesn’t get on with him. This is a powerful statement to the squad that the manager is in complete control (ala SAF) and leaves no ambiguity. Either you work with Jose or you go... very simple

TitianGerm

bangkok wrote: »

I wonder is that the footage of jose telling pogba he will no longer be captain??

I say it's more likely Jose telling Pogba that everyone is waiting on him and to cop on and be on time?

Adamcp898

It's all mind games lads. Instead of talking about the loss last night, we're talking about the "rift" between Jose and Pogba :pac:

---

What would people's feelings be on dropping Lukaku btw? When the team is playing very poorly he just turns into a complete bystander based on the season to date and that long middle of the season stretch last year.

His major strength is his pace and making runs in behind but oppositions rarely let us do that and instead sit off because they know we'll struggle to play through them so he's just left up top with the ball periodically bouncing off him. Perhaps a change of tack with Martial playing centrally up top, either by himself or part of a two, and then Fred playing an advanced role like the first half Saturday. Playing our better technical players in that key area might mean we'll manage to break through opposition defensive lines a bit easier with interplay and passing.

Loafing Oaf

Business Cat wrote: »

In fairness, he's only hated by absolute **** puffins.

Useful addition to my vocabulary.:D

The_Kew_Tour

Bust ups do happen in training in every single ground on every single day.

I don't really worry too much about that.

It's more the sulking and having to go on Social Mefia after.

What goes on pitch stays on pitch

yourdeadwright

Drumpot wrote: »

Your Airbag wrote: »

I really wish this revisionisim of Jose would stop.  Early Jose was hungry and a different animal than what we have seen in the last 3 years, this one of the greatest manager of the last whatever doesn't and shouldnt buy him any more time when he is currently underpreforming.

If your targets dropped this much at any other high pressure job you would be in trouble too and saying to managment "but yeah 4 years ago i was always on time and meeting the targets and deadlines" would cut you little slack.

What are you talking about? He’s been the most successful coach we have had since SAF left. He inherited a sh*t squad. And the club , contrary to some people’s misguided belief, is very involved in signing, selling and identifying player targets.

Id rate Van Gaal Fa Cup win over the Eufa Cup or carling cup wins,

yourdeadwright

Adamcp898 wrote: »

It's all mind games lads. Instead of talking about the loss last night, we're talking about the "rift" between Jose and Pogba :pac:

---

What would people's feelings be on dropping Lukaku btw? When the team is playing very poorly he just turns into a complete bystander based on the season to date and that long middle of the season stretch last year.

His major strength is his pace and making runs in behind but oppositions rarely let us do that and instead sit off because they know we'll struggle to play through them so he's just left up top with the ball periodically bouncing off him. Perhaps a change of tack with Martial playing centrally up top, either by himself or part of a two, and then Fred playing an advanced role like the first half Saturday. Playing our better technical players in that key area might mean we'll manage to break through opposition defensive lines a bit easier with interplay and passing.

Iv said for a long time now, Alexis as a false 9 and Marital and Rashford either side would instantly make United better to watch ,
Alexis best seasons at Arsenal was as a 9 and in pre-season for United he was very good cause he played as a 9 .

TheDoc

Drumpot wrote: »

What are you talking about? He’s been the most successful coach we have had since SAF left. He inherited a sh*t squad. And the club , contrary to some people’s misguided belief, is very involved in signing, selling and identifying player targets.

Where are you drawing this from?

Drumpot

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Id rate Van Gaal Fa Cup win over the Eufa Cup or carling cup wins,

I wouldn’t class an FA cup higer then a league cup AND Europa cup and neither did the club....

yourdeadwright

Drumpot wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Id rate Van Gaal Fa Cup win over the Eufa Cup or carling cup wins,

I wouldn’t class an FA cup higer then a league cup AND Europa cup and neither did the club....

Unites shouldn't be in the Europa cup end off (just look at the teams they beat that year), and the FA cup is always rated higher than the league cup

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

Where are you drawing this from?

There is more then enough evidence to suggest the club is very much involved in transfer targets. Jose only recently stated that he shouldn’t be called a manager but a coach, what do you think he was saying?

Drumpot

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Unites shouldn't be in the Europa cup end off (just look at the teams they beat that year), and the FA cup is always rated higher than the league cup

Why were they in the Europa cup? United got CL football because of the Europa win and LVG was sacked because he didn’t get that same criteria so you might think the fa cup is more valuable but that’s not really the case...

Jose is the first coach since SAF to get CL football twice in a row.

Fitz*

Drumpot wrote: »

Jose is the first coach since SAF to get CL football twice in a row.

Also finished lower than LVG ever did, and lower than Ferguson did for 20 odd years. And he may do it again, if he lasts the year.

Will I Am Not

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Id rate Van Gaal Fa Cup win over the Eufa Cup or carling cup wins,

I know you lads don’t have much experience with silverware and all that in the last decade or more but trust us, 2 second grade trophies are better than one second grade trophy. Simple maths would tell you that.

Drumpot

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I know you lads don’t have much experience with silverware and all that in the last decade or more but trust us, 2 second grade trophies are better than one second grade trophy. Simple maths would tell you that.

Europa
- champions league qualification
- this means guaranteed minimum extra prize money from qualifying for champions league
- more funds for winning the trophy
- higer coefficient ranking points for European tournaments

Fa cup
- qualification for Europa

We can talk about the history of the fa cup and what it used to represent but the truth is that it’s not what it was no matter how much we like to romantically imagine.

Hotblack Desiato

Weepsie wrote: »

Just as important at the same time was the departure of David Gill. Woodward is a brilliant financial manager, and is overseeing success despite the on pitch issues however, he didn't have whatever Gill had that gave him an understanding of the workings of football.

It was disastrous for the club that Gill left at the same time as SAF. For the sake of continuity they should have done everything possible to keep him at the club another year or two (or have had a proper succession plan for Gill in place a couple of years prior, knowing that SAF could not stay in the job forever and Gill had ambitions at UEFA/FIFA level. A capable deputy CEO who understands the football side of the business, and/or a director of football.)

If you want an official tractor sponsor for the South East Asian market, Ed Woodward is your only man.

Drumpot wrote: »

Managers have to publically support signed players while they are still in that job

Yet it seems certain players can openly criticise the club and the manager and think they are bigger than and more important than either.

Liam McPoyle

Give it t'Giggsy.

Loafing Oaf

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

If you want an official tractor sponsor for the South East Asian market, Ed Woodward is your only man.

:P:pac:

beno619

MD1990 wrote: »

Pogba knows the camera's are at training today.
He knows going over to the coaches & Mourinho could cause something.

The 2 of them really are conducting themselves poorly. Mourinho's comment about Jones was very poor last night.

The fact that Jones is incaple of taking a penalty kick and doesn't practice them is very poor for a professional footballer.

bangkok

beno619 wrote: »

The fact that Jones is incaple of taking a penalty kick and doesn't practice them is very poor for a professional footballer.

He's a great corner kick taker though

Iused2likebusts

Drumpot wrote: »

You keep ignoring the question . What did Klopp do in his first two years as manager and what pressure was he under in comparison to Jose ?. . You don't want to answer because the United Job is far more difficult and has a lot more pressure attached then the Liverpool one . .

Jose won the league 4 years ago, not 27 like your Dalglish comparison . . And I think we all know why Liverpool fans are coming into this thread when United are in such bad shape and its not to educate united fans . .

What klopp has done is make the club relevant again. He has made the club a very attractive destination for players again. By qualifying for the CL in back to back years and doing it by absorbing the sale of his best player for a huge fee with no replacement brought in. Jose when he took over broke the transfer record and could attract zlatan on a free despite no CL due to utds finances and reputation with players worldwide. The club could also afford to let him have the biggest squad in the league and probably the highest wage bill despite no CL football. Klopp couldnt do that initially he had to build the club up and generate the money to facilitate what happened this summer. Up till this season more was expected of jose as he had it much easier than klopp with regard to finances avialable and the type of players he could attract. The gap between whats expected from the two of them has narrowed this season.

Will I Am Not

Drumpot wrote: »

Europa
- champions league qualification
- this means guaranteed minimum extra prize money from qualifying for champions league
- more funds for winning the trophy
- higer coefficient ranking points for European tournaments

Fa cup
- qualification for Europa

We can talk about the history of the fa cup and what it used to represent but the truth is that it’s not what it was no matter how much we like to romantically imagine.

Also the argument about the teams United played to win the Europa. There has been some very easy runs to the FA Cup final.

Preston, Cardiff, Stoke, Villa and Portsmouth were Chelsea’s opponents on their way to winning an FA Cup.

Bournemouth, Macclesfield, Huddersfield and Everton landed Wigan in a final v Man City.

Mitch Connor

I just don't see any evidence that Jose can motivate the players to perform. He constantly gives out about their attitude and performances in games - but it is exactly his job to improve those aspects.

The players take blame too, obviously, and I think Woodward as well because not selling players Jose wants gone undermines him and his authority.

I think massive changes are needed at the club.

There are a number of players that need to be replaced.
We need more focus, intent and intelligence on recruitment.
We also need to get better out of what we have.

I can't argue against Jose being sacked at this point - he isn't giving any reason that we would keep him. We give out about Pogba creating drama but Jose is matching him step for step.

If we sold all the players Jose wanted gone, I would have no faith in the club to replace them, nor Jose to get the best out of what we have/do replace them with.

Rossi IRL

I was delighted with winning the Europa. I would have it as the 3rd highest club trophy behind the Champions League and League itself.

xtal191

Drumpot wrote: »

There is more then enough evidence to suggest the club is very much involved in transfer targets. Jose only recently stated that he shouldn’t be called a manager but a coach, what do you think he was saying?

Maybe I'm imagining it but didn't Woodward say they were working on the Pogba deal for 2 years before he signed? So well before Mourinho was even manager

IamtheWalrus

Pogba looked like a sad bastard in the stand last night making it all about him.

Drumpot

xtal191 wrote: »

Maybe I'm imagining it but didn't Woodward say they were working on the Pogba deal for 2 years before he signed? So well before Mourinho was even manager

Don’t forget Herrera and Shaw who were originally supposed to sign when Moyes took over but ended up being signed under LVG... sure mata , as popular a player for good reason, was signed to make Woodward not look completely useless.... He was available, Chelsea wanted to sell and Woodward needed a win after the fellani debacle.

asteroids over berlin

SlickRic wrote: »

This.

Pogba and Mourinho are acting like children. It's bizarre. They know how the media game works. They know cameras are on them. Do they want this to drag on more than it's already doing?

Mind boggling stuff.

These days the vast majority of footballers act like children, why should coaches be different :pac: Talented guys with a ball but the majority are not the brightest living specimens in this world! Farcical behaviour though

jaykay74

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Id rate Van Gaal Fa Cup win over the Eufa Cup or carling cup wins,

That may be because the Eufa cup doesn't exist and the carling cup hasn't been played since 2012.

davehey79

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1044906594318929921

i don't see it posted already !

Will I Am Not

davehey79 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1044906594318929921

i don't see it posted already !

You didn’t look hard...

Lord TSC

beno619 wrote: »

The fact that Jones is incaple of taking a penalty kick and doesn't practice them is very poor for a professional footballer.

On the other hand, how often will Phil Jones ever take a penalty? Spending time training in something you might do once every three or four years seems a waste of time.

bangkok

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Pogba looked like a sad bastard in the stand last night making it all about him.

why and how exactly?

What about what ACTUALLY happened on the field last night?

Getting outplayed by Derby, at home, with almost a full team.

yet again, poor going forward, sitting back to poor opposition, letting them have the ball.

What about the likes of Matic and Lukaku, senior players that are not doing enough

https://twitter.com/RedMancunian/status/1044931045311868929

bangkok

Never forget

Turtwig

Jeez watching that again I didn't realise there was audio and Jose actually says "get out". That seems a very calculated move on his part. He knew the cameras were there.

Drumpot

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

These days the vast majority of footballers act like children, why should coaches be different :pac: Talented guys with a ball but the majority are not the brightest living specimens in this world! Farcical behaviour though

We all have our opinions and it seems we all (me included) are choosing to interpret what little information we have in the manner that best suits our desired conclusion.

If we looked at all the stuff written about Shaw and Jose over the last few years and see the result of what Shaw looks like , we would surely hold off on insulting Mourinhos tactics and writing him off.the same pundits complaining about how he handles Pogba were damning him for his treatment of Shaw!

If people were looking to guess at why Pogba is underperforming and you had to rank the most likely reasons in order what do you think would be the most voted?

- Jose’s management style
- Pogbas agent shuffling for a move
- Pogba put our by Sanchez salary gap
- Pogba getting big for his boots after WC win that inflamed his sense of entitlement further
- Jose making him captain
- Jose trying to at least defend him in public since season starting
- Jose changing the system to accommodate Pogba

And then go a step further. Ask how helpful are the actions of Pogba to the team?

- Pogba constantly giving vague statements about team tactics that could be interpreted as a dig at the coach
-Pogba continually not clarify his comittement to united which by extension extends to his actual teammates. If you were Lukaku and you saw Pogba for France and you are desperate for goals would you be happy with Pogba for united?
- Pogba saying he wasn’t mentally right for a game he was captain
-Pogba not regularly performing for his club as he does his country

How is any of this behavior anything other then a player suiting themselves at the expense of creating unhelpful pressure on the manager and team....

Turtwig

Turtwig wrote: »

Jeez watching that again I didn't realise there was audio and Jose actually says "get out". That seems a very calculated move on his part. He knew the cameras were there.

I don't understand the point you are making. Why would he want the media hear him say get out

Rossi IRL

Fred The Red wrote: »

I don't understand the point you are making. Why would he want the media hear him say get out

Maybe he didn't think it would be picked up by the microphones.

sideswipe

Fred The Red wrote: »

I don't understand the point you are making. Why would he want the media hear him say get out

I think the opposite is true, it wasn't calculated at all. His relationship with Pogba is done and he couldn't help himself regardless of the cameras.

Drumpot

Fred The Red wrote: »

I don't understand the point you are making. Why would he want the media hear him say get out

Imagine Pogba and Jose has a great working relationship and it’s just that it wasn’t meant to be with Pogba at united.....

Your Airbag

Drumpot wrote: »

What are you talking about? He’s been the most successful coach we have had since SAF left. He inherited a sh*t squad. And the club , contrary to some people’s misguided belief, is very involved in signing, selling and identifying player targets.

Wow, thats quite the goal post shift, your original post said one of the games greatest in the last 30 years to the best since Fergie left, and the two following were Moyes and LVG, not exactly a high bar and miles away from your original argument.

Drumpot wrote: »

There is more then enough evidence to suggest the club is very much involved in transfer targets. Jose only recently stated that he shouldn’t be called a manager but a coach, what do you think he was saying?

I'd like to see this so called evidence. Your trying ot paint a picture that Jose is having players forced on him. Do you actually think Woodward wanted Fred and Matic and Miki as players? Of course the club is invovlded in transfers as some level, they need to be discussed internally, this happens at every club.

davehey79

it's odd the pics on that site with the 2min video @MUnitedFrance show Pogba training. one would assume the video was at the start of training.

Turtwig

Fred The Red wrote: »

I don't understand the point you are making. Why would he want the media hear him say get out

From the start of the footage Pogba is doing the usual thing at all media attended training sessions of warmly greeting his colleagues. Jose quite visibly says something to put a damper on it. He knew full well the cameras were there and the implications of doing it. Even if the relationships had soured they could have, like a lot of football professionals do, put up the act for the cameras. Jose opted not to. There's only two reasons he'd do this. Ego and impulsiveness, or more likely imo, a calculated decision. By doing this in the public spotlight he heaps even more pressure on the United board by raising the ultimatum: Back Me or Back Him. Now the board can't actually back away from making some decision.

Then again it's Jose, so ego and impulsiveness cannot be ruled out.

Rossi IRL

Jose has to go

Board can't let this go on any longer

Drumpot

Your Airbag wrote: »

Wow, thats quite the goal post shift, your original post said one of the games greatest in the last 30 years to the best since Fergie left, and the two following were Moyes and LVG, not exactly a high bar and miles away from your original argument.



I'd like to see this so called evidence. Your trying ot paint a picture that Jose is having players forced on him. Do you actually think Woodward wanted Fred and Matic and Miki as players? Of course the club is invovlded in transfers as some level, they need to be discussed internally, this happens at every club.

Shifting what goalposts? You can’t Address the point can you? He is the best manager we have had since SAF left. He’s the most successful coach available. He’s been one of the most successful coaches of the last 30 years... there are so many things in Jose’s plus column its Not funny.

Incidentally you just chose to ignore a massive piece of evidence. Since you didn’t cop it Jose said the club doesn’t let him sign who he wants. Asking to be referred to as a coach couldn’t make that any clearer... there are also plenty of other examples me and others have given here even in the last page that you either didn’t bother reading or just can’t argue against. The club is heavily involved in our transfer policy.

The_Kew_Tour

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Jose has to go

Board can't let this go on any longer

Would you keep Pogba?

Who wants a sulk on there team?

JaMarcus

I'll be mortified if we sack José before we get rid of Pogba. And I say that as someone who wants José gone ASAP. But sacking José while Pogba remains at the club gives the impression - rightly or wrongly - that we're picking sides.

Pogba and his agent have been on a calculated campaign for months to undermine Mourinho and the club. At this stage, I would fully support Pogba never playing for the club again and being sent to play and train with the reserves until January. Give José the rest of the season because we're unlikely to hire anyone better in the meantime.