Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

bangkok

Nuts102 wrote: »

I would say the majority of the side will be with Jose. It must be annoying being Matic and Fellaini watching him stroll around while you are putting 100% into every game.

Could you imagine Keane being captain he would tear into him and rightly so.

He isnt strolling around and if he was mourinho wouldnt have him near the first team or at worst would take him off every game in which he was "strolling" around.

bangkok

TitianGerm wrote: »

Nobody said to leave De Gea out. That would be madness.

Periera is not a goalkeeper.

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

Periera is not a goalkeeper.

Joel is.

The_Kew_Tour

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

So now the press are reporting a split in the squad with the French speaking players siding with Pogba and that Lukaku although still friends with him has distanced himself from Pogba.

Would not be surprised if this is true. At least there is bit of passion and effort In Lukaku.

He might wreck the head a bit but least he seems play for team and his celebrations v Palace and Chelsea last season were enough for me.

Edit no idea how thumbs down made my post

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

Joel is.

Well done

pjohnson

14 years ago today a young lad called Rooney scored a hat trick against Fenerbahce.

Rossi IRL

I just want us to smash West Ham.

Don't care who plays as long as we win and win well.

The club is and will always be bigger than any manager or player.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

14 years ago today a young lad called Rooney scored a hat trick against Fenerbahce.

Well then 14 years ago today I was playing a debs in Navan.

Ah, the good 'ol days.

fergiesfolly

Whether you're of that opinion that one or both of Pogba and Mourinho should go, there can't be any doubt that there's disharmony in the dressing room.
Mourinhos man management style seems to be to target a player or two and lambast them into better performances, which will then invigorate the rest of the squad in to doing likewise.
If it is, it's widely off the mark , as all that it seems to do is alienate his players and then lose the dressing room. Ands not like he hasn't form... Real and Chelsea before and we seem to be following a pattern.

Even Ferguson changed his heavy handed approach to dealing with modern players.
His man management style of Beckham and Ronaldo were completely different.

I personally don't like the social media presence Pogba displays, but he's undoubtedly talented and we need our manager to get the best from him.

Where all this ends up, god only knows, but we need closure on this before it wrecks the season.

Hotblack Desiato

Nuts102 wrote: »

Could you imagine Keane being captain he would tear into him and rightly so.

That's a big problem, no leaders on the pitch.

Will I Am Not

pjohnson wrote: »

14 years ago today a young lad called Rooney scored a hat trick against Fenerbahce.

Hard to believe Rooney was a young lad.

Liam McPoyle

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Hard to believe Rooney was a young lad.

He's always been 43.

TheDoc

The drama just continues.

The comments about Bailey and Jones seemingly getting the players backs up and seemingly now Rashford and Jose are having some issues too.

Btw that training incident just dawned on me last night. A planned staged attempt from the manager to publicly show his authority knowing cameras are there that totally backfired in his face and probably undermined him further in some players eyes.

He needs to just stop picking fights and get the team playing and winning.

More he behaves like this the more a fool he becomes.

There is no way the club are going to sell Pogba and allow him spend money on replacements if he doesn’t arrest this season that is already shaping up into catastrophe.

More likely is the manager getting flung out and the players all getting the benefit of the doubt from the powers that be.

ericzeking

TheDoc wrote: »

The drama just continues.

The comments about Bailey and Jones seemingly getting the players backs up and seemingly now Rashford and Jose are having some issues too.

Btw that training incident just dawned on me last night. A planned staged attempt from the manager to publicly show his authority knowing cameras are there that totally backfired in his face and probably undermined him further in some players eyes.

He needs to just stop picking fights and get the team playing and winning.

More he behaves like this the more a fool he becomes.

There is no way the club are going to sell Pogba and allow him spend money on replacements if he doesn’t arrest this season that is already shaping up into catastrophe.

More likely is the manager getting flung out and the players all getting the benefit of the doubt from the powers that be.

Some people think JM wants to bed in and create a legacy at United.... imagine 10 or 12 years of the relentless bickering and whinging. The constant drama.

I can never understand how so many are so ready to be on Mourinhos side of anything (leaving aside Pogba also being a twit)....for years we laughed and took the p!ss out of his histrionics...his behaviour was something that would never be tolerated at United....Jaysus

Adamcp898

Deleted User wrote: »

Well then 14 years ago today I was playing a debs in Navan.

Ah, the good 'ol days.

Play some Snow Patrol.

Drumpot

ericzeking wrote: »

Some people think JM wants to bed in and create a legacy at United.... imagine 10 or 12 years of the relentless bickering and whinging. The constant drama.

I can never understand how so many are so ready to be on Mourinhos side of anything (leaving aside Pogba also being a twit)....for years we laughed and took the p!ss out of his histrionics...his behaviour was something that would never be tolerated at United....Jaysus

we laughed at Jose the season after he won a league or champions league. We weren’t laughing because he’s a loser, it was because we enjoyed his fall...

If Jose does want to remain at united long term then he should be allowed to get in and out who he wants. That means there is no drama. Drama was quickly dealt with SAF because there was no player who could question his methods or tactics or anything. Players either played or they were dropped or sold. Very simple.

Ferguson regularly went defencive if his teams needed it. He did want needed to be done to win. There is loads of examples during his tenure. Look at 1995/96. In jan to May in the league united played 16 games. United scored 1 or less goals in 10 of those games. That’s the sort of statistic Jose’s Chelsea might of shown at times.

Top managers do change their strategies and tactics depending on the players at their disposal and of course their players abilities to follow instructions. But every manager relies on compliance. SAF always has 100% compliance of his methods. Jose doesn’t have that luxury and I don’t think it can underestimate how toxic and damaging it is.

I mean we have seen 6 years of players downing tools and what has changed? Some fans think That managers joining united are all incapable of setting up teams or managing the players. Maybe a big part is how the club is “supporting” its managers. There are multiple ways a club can support a manager.

I don’t feel the club has fully supported a manager anywhere near SAF and would like to see how that might play out.....

J. Marston

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Play some Snow Patrol.

Snow Patrol, there's a blast from the past.

RobbingBandit

Joel is out on loan so he doesn't even come up for discussion, Lukaku spends too much time in the box ball watching Pogba is being way to flashy gets overly frustrated too easily these two on paper are our best two more often than not Matic Fellaini Shaw and others are putting on better performances than both of them.

Pereira as I posted deserves a chance he did quite well in preseason and put in an excellent performance in Spain when given the chance all I was stating is give him a chance in the middle of the pitch. He's not as tall as Pogba but he is exceptionally creative.

TheDoc

ericzeking wrote: »

Some people think JM wants to bed in and create a legacy at United.... imagine 10 or 12 years of the relentless bickering and whinging. The constant drama.

I can never understand how so many are so ready to be on Mourinhos side of anything (leaving aside Pogba also being a twit)....for years we laughed and took the p!ss out of his histrionics...his behaviour was something that would never be tolerated at United....Jaysus

Any chance of him staying longer than 2-3 years would have required a significant shift in attitude and character from him, which was sighted when he first signed and is obvious hasn't changed in the slightest.

Maybe he got back in too quickly and hadn't shaken the Chelsea issues, but he's the same type of manager he's been from Madrid.

ericzeking

Drumpot wrote: »

we laughed at Jose the season after he won a league or champions league. We weren’t laughing because he’s a loser, it was because we enjoyed his fall...

If Jose does want to remain at united long term then he should be allowed to get in and out who he wants. That means there is no drama. Drama was quickly dealt with SAF because there was no player who could question his methods or tactics or anything. Players either played or they were dropped or sold. Very simple.

Ferguson regularly went defencive if his teams needed it. He did want needed to be done to win. There is loads of examples during his tenure. Look at 1995/96. In jan to May in the league united played 16 games. United scored 1 or less goals in 10 of those games. That’s the sort of statistic Jose’s Chelsea might of shown at times.

Top managers do change their strategies and tactics depending on the players at their disposal and of course their players abilities to follow instructions. But every manager relies on compliance. SAF always has 100% compliance of his methods. Jose doesn’t have that luxury and I don’t think it can underestimate how toxic and damaging it is.

I mean we have seen 6 years of players downing tools and what has changed? Some fans think That managers joining united are all incapable of setting up teams or managing the players. Maybe a big part is how the club is “supporting” its managers. There are multiple ways a club can support a manager.

I don’t feel the club has fully supported a manager anywhere near SAF and would like to see how that might play out.....

I don't disagree with you....sure I was with DM and LVG right to the finish, and I still think LVG had more to offer us and was badly treated. I'm all for backing and giving managers plenty of time, just not this manager!!!

TheDoc

Drumpot wrote: »

we laughed at Jose the season after he won a league or champions league. We weren’t laughing because he’s a loser, it was because we enjoyed his fall...

If Jose does want to remain at united long term then he should be allowed to get in and out who he wants. That means there is no drama. Drama was quickly dealt with SAF because there was no player who could question his methods or tactics or anything. Players either played or they were dropped or sold. Very simple.

Ferguson regularly went defencive if his teams needed it. He did want needed to be done to win. There is loads of examples during his tenure. Look at 1995/96. In jan to May in the league united played 16 games. United scored 1 or less goals in 10 of those games. That’s the sort of statistic Jose’s Chelsea might of shown at times.

Top managers do change their strategies and tactics depending on the players at their disposal and of course their players abilities to follow instructions. But every manager relies on compliance. SAF always has 100% compliance of his methods. Jose doesn’t have that luxury and I don’t think it can underestimate how toxic and damaging it is.

I mean we have seen 6 years of players downing tools and what has changed? Some fans think That managers joining united are all incapable of setting up teams or managing the players. Maybe a big part is how the club is “supporting” its managers. There are multiple ways a club can support a manager.

I don’t feel the club has fully supported a manager anywhere near SAF and would like to see how that might play out.....

Are you of the opinion Jose is directly responsible and a cause of the exact issues you have outlined, or are you of the reading of the situation he has been hamstrung by those issues and they are outside of his control?

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

Are you of the opinion Jose is directly responsible and a cause of the exact issues you have outlined, or are you of the reading of the situation he has been hamstrung by those issues and they are outside of his control?

I think it’s a bit of both.

I think if Jose has full authority we don’t have any of these dramas. Pogba either falls in line or he’s benched. Players either fall in line or they are benched. When the manager confronts a player , the player cannot go on tv and continually inflame the situation..

You are manager of man united. They finish second in the league, their best league finish in 5 years and certainly a sign the club is on an upward trajectory. You don’t get on with a player you dropped for United’s biggest euro game last season. You may be happy to see him gone but the ceo won’t let it happen, mostly, for non football related reasons. You want to strengthen areas with at least two more signings to improve a deficiency and keep the momentum of last years league progress going. You don’t get them because the club doesn’t. I can see why that would be frustrating

The player comes back from World Cup and immediately creates drama and ambiguity. You win your first game and they immediately over shadow the win with their after match interview. Each match ends up being about that player one way of another. You make that player captain. You publicaly spend over a month trying to deflect and even defend that player. That player continues to add fuel to the flame... How does a manager deal with that kind of player who will drag the entire team down to push whatever agenda they have?

If you look at it from “Jose always does it” POV then you would struggle to actually see that Pogba has done nothing , absolutely nothing to make this work since he came back from his summer holidays. He couldn’t do much more to make Jose’s job anymore difficult to manage.

I think Jose is fed up with the Pogba circus and feel we have gone beyond a “well a managers job is to manage players” argument. Pogba has had every opportunity this season to thrive and he’s thrown it back at all our faces. It’s not just Jose who is losing out.

TheDoc

If we talked though more broadly in terms of the issues you first raised.

The Pogba situation is somewhat in microcosm, and I've shifted to the opinion that manager should be backed and supported there.

But in the wider aspects of the issues he has and experiences.

This line of your original post stood out to me

But every manager relies on compliance. SAF always has 100% compliance of his methods. Jose doesn’t have that luxury and I don’t think it can underestimate how toxic and damaging it is.

If we are focusing on the specific Pogba situation I get what you mean. Player is bounced out.
However if taking about the wider context, I'd suggest JM is a direct cause of that issue, as opposed to something he has been lumped with

Adamocovic

Reports saying Mourinho will address training ground altercation in his presser. Highly doubt that.

It's a dangerous game to play but seems to have the backing of most fans. Reports of players turning on José could be rubbish, hard to tell with the press but I'm not as confident as those who believe only Bailly and Martial would side with Pogba.

Pogba despite what people may think, appears to be very popular amongst the players, we constantly hear players defending him, sharing stories of them eating out together and joking. So it would appear he would be friendly with most of them all. As to whether a divide has happened and people are siding it's hard to tell, but it's happened before with José so can't be ruled out.

As for the apparent method of stripping Pogba of the 2nd captains role, can't say I'm a huge fan of the way he went about it. If reports are true he did so in front of the rest of the team, then went to the media saying he didn't have to explain it, saying he was also the person who gave him that title. Now I have no idea how many times José has warned him about his behavior if he is to continue as 2nd captain but I think if he stripped it from him in front of the team without speaking privately beforehand that it would not be the smartest decision. He may have wanted to flex his muscles but I can see a few not being happy with it.

Most of the stuff we type and read is all speculation, but this story isn't going away, and we will continue to be surrounded by these headlines for the coming months. Will be a difficult time both on and off the pitch and I can't say I'm looking forward to it.

The fool in me hopes that José has done this to spur a reaction from Pogba, who will kick it up a gear. Then the rest of the team kick on too and our football becomes good enough to distract from the press. But again, that's wishful thinking.

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

If we talked though more broadly in terms of the issues you first raised.

The Pogba situation is somewhat in microcosm, and I've shifted to the opinion that manager should be backed and supported there.

But in the wider aspects of the issues he has and experiences.

This line of your original post stood out to me


If we are focusing on the specific Pogba situation I get what you mean. Player is bounced out.
However if taking about the wider context, I'd suggest JM is a direct cause of that issue, as opposed to something he has been lumped with

I agree to a degree. When Pogba was dropped for Seville game I was sort of wondering if it was the right time and way to do it. I think that was effectively a statement/challenge to the player and it looks like its failed miserably. It took Deshamps to say to Pogba "Jose is trying to make you a better player" and possibly a world cup coming up for Pogba to up his performances.

I certainly agree that its not that Jose is infallible or has managed the Pogba situation perfectly. Its that we (fans/club) need Pogba to at least give it his all on the pitch. He doesn't have to like the coach to do that. If he needs to be happy (as he said) then maybe hes a big of a fragile character that isn't ready for the united challenge. I don't necessarily see Pogba being happy and things changing much if Jose gets sacked .

And for all the talk of "Jose is losing it", but his issue is one player. This player has been getting away with disrespecting the manager and his team (underperformances) all season. Now other players see they can start whinging if they aren't happy about something. That's the toxic landslide that can happen when you undermine a manager. Look at Jose having a go at Shaw and what has resulted. It worked. . But now when he says stuff about other players its all of a sudden a massive issue? Why ? Its not, its his style and it works if he isn't undermined.

But I think perhaps Pogba and Jose are just not meant to work together. If Pogba wasn't such a marketable commodity I don't think there would be a problem with the club offloading him (unless of course nobody actually wants to buy him!). That's a major issue for me and its one of the reasons I feel strongly that the clubs transfer policy is influenced way too much by non first team priority criteria.. I don't think Pogba is being retained primarily for his on field performances, its his off field and potential future value that is making the club reluctant to sell him. I think this sort of attitude/strategy is exactly the kind of thing that's been happening since SAF retired and each manager has been disposed of quite ruthlessly. The players see that and if enough of them turn on a manager they can get him sacked and spend 12 months "settling" into the new managers philosophy.

As mentioned by many people, there are plenty of examples in the past of players wanting to leave clubs or falling out with managers and still have the professional courtesy (to the fans) to show up while they are still at the club. Does even the staunchest defender of Pogba this we have had a fully committed Pogba for the last year? Imagine Pogba was giving 8 or 9/10 displays, then I might listen to him. But he's just half arsing it and showing up when it suits him. That's what I see anyways.

Drumpot

Adamocovic wrote: »

Reports saying Mourinho will address training ground altercation in his presser. Highly doubt that.

It's a dangerous game to play but seems to have the backing of most fans. Reports of players turning on José could be rubbish, hard to tell with the press but I'm not as confident as those who believe only Bailly and Martial would side with Pogba.

Pogba despite what people may think, appears to be very popular amongst the players, we constantly hear players defending him, sharing stories of them eating out together and joking. So it would appear he would be friendly with most of them all. As to whether a divide has happened and people are siding it's hard to tell, but it's happened before with José so can't be ruled out.

As for the apparent method of stripping Pogba of the 2nd captains role, can't say I'm a huge fan of the way he went about it. If reports are true he did so in front of the rest of the team, then went to the media saying he didn't have to explain it, saying he was also the person who gave him that title. Now I have no idea how many times José has warned him about his behavior if he is to continue as 2nd captain but I think if he stripped it from him in front of the team without speaking privately beforehand that it would not be the smartest decision. He may have wanted to flex his muscles but I can see a few not being happy with it.

Most of the stuff we type and read is all speculation, but this story isn't going away, and we will continue to be surrounded by these headlines for the coming months. Will be a difficult time both on and off the pitch and I can't say I'm looking forward to it.

The fool in me hopes that José has done this to spur a reaction from Pogba, who will kick it up a gear. Then the rest of the team kick on too and our football becomes good enough to distract from the press. But again, that's wishful thinking.

Look at Shaw and all the different techniques Jose tried to get shaw going. Each technique was ridiculed, particularly if he was stating this publically. Shaws character (willing to learn and take constructive criticism) and probably low ego meant the strategys Jose tried eventually worked . . .


People are presuming that everything jose is doing is ego related and about him settling scores. Maybe it is or maybe, just maybe, hes trying out different methods to see if he can get through to Pogba on some level . .

Making him captain doesn't work. Defending him to press doesn't work. Playing him in his preferred position doesn't work. Letting him away with constantly causing drama doesn't work. Letting him decide when to take penos doesn't work . . Maybe publically scalding him will work . . What does Jose have to lose at this stage ? If any other player was as troublesome and inconsistent as Pogba they would of been offloaded in the summer.

Adamocovic

Drumpot wrote: »

Look at Jose having a go at Shaw and what has resulted. It worked. . But now when he says stuff about other players its all of a sudden a massive issue? Why ? Its not, its his style and it works if he isn't undermined.

Just wanted to comment on this.

With Shaw it was a big issue and taking a lot of space in here and in the media. There were plenty of people vocal against José's tactics regarding Shaw. I don't see how anyone can argue everyone was on board then.

As for whether or not the style works for José, it's horses for courses in my eyes. Depends entirely on the person. In his career it has worked at times, and it has also failed at times.

We'll see how this scenario unfolds, I know personally I'm not fully supportive of either Pogba or José, maybe something will happen to throw me firmly in one camp but I'm kind of sick of the attention the both of them have brought with it.

Hopefully I'll wain off ranting and commentating about them as it will be a long season and I'd need to replace my keyboard a few times.

Drumpot

Adamocovic wrote: »

Just wanted to comment on this.

With Shaw it was a big issue and taking a lot of space in here and in the media. There were plenty of people vocal against José's tactics regarding Shaw. I don't see how anyone can argue everyone was on board then.

As for whether or not the style works for José, it's horses for courses in my eyes. Depends entirely on the person. In his career it has worked at times, and it has also failed at times.

We'll see how this scenario unfolds, I know personally I'm not fully supportive of either Pogba or José, maybe something will happen to throw me firmly in one camp but I'm kind of sick of the attention the both of them have brought with it.

Hopefully I'll wain off ranting and commentating about them as it will be a long season and I'd need to replace my keyboard a few times.

That's fair enough Adam . .

Can I ask, what do you think Pogba has done since he came home from the WC to make it work ? Do you think its all Jose's responsibility to make it work ?

After our win against Leicester Pogba immediately started to clarify all is not well and he wasn't "happy" and talked about "getting fined" if he really said what he wanted to say. . That suggests that Pogba probably wasn't happy when he returned from France so what exactly could Jose do to mend that relationship?

I mean, I don't know what was going on behind closed doors, but I don't think Jose has done much publicly (up until recently) to give Pogba cause to air things publicly like he has . So what does Jose do ? I don't think Jose wants this coverage, I think he's just fed up catering to Pogbas whim, sees he's not getting performances on the pitch so needs to challenge Pogba's behaviour.

We can all say that Jose might of done things better and managed Pogba better before this summer, but I am not sure what else he could of done, publicly, since the start of the season. . I think the only thing you could say is that he has allowed Pogba (who is the aggressor publicly) to drag him into the arena.

Adamocovic

Drumpot wrote: »

Making him captain doesn't work. Defending him to press doesn't work. Playing him in his preferred position doesn't work. Letting him away with constantly causing drama doesn't work. Letting him decide when to take penos doesn't work . . Maybe publically scalding him will work . . What does Jose have to lose at this stage ? If any other player was as troublesome and inconsistent as Pogba they would of been offloaded in the summer.

Already gave my opinion regarding the shaw thing.

I'd argue that most of the team has been as inconsistent or worse than Pogba this season and last. My only fear is of José losing a part of the dressing room, it will depend how Pogba reacts to it really.

I noticed earlier how similar the criticisms are for both Pogba and José. Both are being criticised for their performances and media interactions. Maybe I've been guilty of this, but it is quite gas how one can be defending vigorously by someone, then the other attacked for similar reasons.

The criticisms are really quite interchangeable which makes it hard to nail down a side.

nullzero

Drumpot wrote: »

Look at Shaw and all the different techniques Jose tried to get shaw going. Each technique was ridiculed, particularly if he was stating this publically. Shaws character (willing to learn and take constructive criticism) and probably low ego meant the strategys Jose tried eventually worked . . .


People are presuming that everything jose is doing is ego related and about him settling scores. Maybe it is or maybe, just maybe, hes trying out different methods to see if he can get through to Pogba on some level . .

Making him captain doesn't work. Defending him to press doesn't work. Playing him in his preferred position doesn't work. Letting him away with constantly causing drama doesn't work. Letting him decide when to take penos doesn't work . . Maybe publically scalding him will work . . What does Jose have to lose at this stage ? If any other player was as troublesome and inconsistent as Pogba they would of been offloaded in the summer.

You're bang on the money, Pogba has has it every way at United and still hasn't performed.
Jose is no angel and his style of football doesn't fit with the notions we have of ourselves as a club, but Pogba as a supposedly world class player should be at least performing at a consistent level at this stage.

Adamocovic

Drumpot wrote: »

That's fair enough Adam . .

Can I ask, what do you think Pogba has done since he came home from the WC to make it work ? Do you think its all Jose's responsibility to make it work ?

After our win against Leicester Pogba immediately started to clarify all is not well and he wasn't "happy" and talked about "getting fined" if he really said what he wanted to say. . That suggests that Pogba probably wasn't happy when he returned from France so what exactly could Jose do to mend that relationship?

I mean, I don't know what was going on behind closed doors, but I don't think Jose has done much publicly (up until recently) to give Pogba cause to air things publicly like he has . So what does Jose do ? I don't think Jose wants this coverage, I think he's just fed up catering to Pogbas whim, sees he's not getting performances on the pitch so needs to challenge Pogba's behaviour.

We can all say that Jose might of done things better and managed Pogba better before this summer, but I am not sure what else he could of done, publicly, since the start of the season. . I think the only thing you could say is that he has allowed Pogba (who is the aggressor publicly) to drag him into the arena.

For me it's a similar trend, at times this season Pogba has looked very good but has failed to carry it on consistently. Will have some bright moments and then go missing. The more worrying thing for me is he's not alone in this, I think we've been relying to heavily on him as our difference maker and when he goes missing it's costing us.

As for how he's handled the media, he's done so very poorly. Just poured fuel on the fire, and was completely unnecessary.

I think Pogba obviously could have put in more work and taken a greater leadership role, but also believe José could have handled and some of the other players better, it is his job after all to manage them. The both of them have not been helped with other big players failing to perform.

For me when it comes to the media they are as bad as eachother. I don't think José was dragged into the arena like you said, it's a natural spotlight for him. One of the things he's most known for other than his winning sides.

Mitch Connor

I don't know that citing Shaw is a good example to be honest.

Shaw has looked good so far this season - but can we actually say that is down to Jose's man management? Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't.

Maybe Jose got in his head and got him working. Maybe Shaw has matured naturally. Maybe Shaw sees himself going into his final year of hsi contract and knows if he doesn't make it at United this season he won't get near the same money elsewhere, and if he does show his form he has United over a barrel and will get an increase on his contract dispite not performing for most of it.

As for the Pogba stuff - I think, publicly at least, Jose has done all he could to placate Pogba this season. Captain, comments etc - and Pogba has snidely thrown it back at him either through stupidity or trying to engineer a move away from Jose. As I say, i think Jose has publicly said the right things - but it could all have been plays on his part too to either get Pogba onside or win their PR battle.

Mitch Connor

Another note - I think Pogba's comment regarding our tempo and movement are bang on. We've all been saying it.

You can obviously argue he should not have said it and was wrong for saying it - but I don't think you can say the comments were wrong themselves.

Even if you took Pogba out of the team, and brought in some other creative player - they will create little cause they'll have F all to aim at in the last third, our movement and use of space is terrible. That isn't on Pogba. That is on Jose.

Drumpot

Adamocovic wrote: »

For me it's a similar trend, at times this season Pogba has looked very good but has failed to carry it on consistently. Will have some bright moments and then go missing. The more worrying thing for me is he's not alone in this, I think we've been relying to heavily on him as our difference maker and when he goes missing it's costing us.

As for how he's handled the media, he's done so very poorly. Just poured fuel on the fire, and was completely unnecessary.

I think Pogba obviously could have put in more work and taken a greater leadership role, but also believe José could have handled and some of the other players better, it is his job after all to manage them. The both of them have not been helped with other big players failing to perform.

For me when it comes to the media they are as bad as eachother. I don't think José was dragged into the arena like you said, it's a natural spotlight for him. One of the things he's most known for other than his winning sides.

You see I don’t see “it’s a natural arena for Jose” to be addressing the point. Yes Jose has a history of confrontation and fights with players. But let’s stick to this season for the moment.

What did Jose do publicly this summer or up until the last week or two that suggests he wanted everything played out in public? Do you think there is any chance that maybe Jose got fed up with letting Pogba mouth off and still not perform for the team? Maybe Pogba has been looking to cause trouble from the first match interview when we best Leicester and is determined to force a Pogba v Jose rift. Is there any chance that Jose was trying to see what he could salvage from his relationship with Pogba ?

Maybe he Let Pogba vent once he gave it all on the pitch? That’s what a good manger would do and it certainly looked like It was what Jose was trying to do publicly until he started to in effect challange Pogba publicly. Considering the crap Pogba has been getting away with I don’t think Jose is out of order to be honest.

So, if it’s fair to conclude that Pogba is causing all this drama (certainly the public side of it) , Pogba still wasn’t reaching a standard where we feel he’s at least doing his job as best he can and that Jose has only recently started to publicly respond. What should Jose of done? Kept saying nothing while Pogba undermined him? Like I can’t see how anybody can see Pogba busting a gut to downplay things or make things work so what can a manager do with such a player?

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Another note - I think Pogba's comment regarding our tempo and movement are bang on. We've all been saying it.

You can obviously argue he should not have said it and was wrong for saying it - but I don't think you can say the comments were wrong themselves.

Even if you took Pogba out of the team, and brought in some other creative player - they will create little cause they'll have F all to aim at in the last third, our movement and use of space is terrible. That isn't on Pogba. That is on Jose.

The comments were wrong by virtue of the fact he shouldn’t of said it. Being popular with some fans doesn’t change that. He’s not the manager. He’s paid to play not to tell the manager how the manage. It doesn’t help the manager and it doesn’t help the team. It just undermines the manager. Unless of course the manager is actually encouraging his team to push up and Pogbas words are actually attacking his teammates.

davemckenna25

Lads, what time is the press conference due?

bangkok

Jose confirms pogba will start v west ham...

No real surprise there

xtal191

davemckenna25 wrote: »

Lads, what time is the press conference due?

Think it started at 2

Drumpot

davemckenna25 wrote: »

Lads, what time is the press conference due?

It happened.

Jose is happy with Pogba training this week.... Somebody will make something out of it no doubt but i didn’t think there was much that can be thrown back at Jose....

bangkok

Mourinho confirmed Pogba will start against the Hammers, insisting he never considered dropping him.

“The relationship between player and manager is good. It is not any more a relationship between captain – or one of the captains – and manager.

“Nobody trained better than Paul on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. Some trained as well as him but nobody trained better than him and tomorrow he plays.”

When asked if he considered not playing Pogba, Mourinho replied: “No. He is a player like the others.

“No player is bigger than the club. If I am happy with his work, he plays. If I am not happy with his work he does not play.

“I am happy with his work this week, really happy.

“The team needs good players. He is a good player. The team needs players with the personality to play. He has [it]. So he plays tomorrow.”



also goes to prove a lot of the nonsense wrote on here about pogba is exactly that....nonsense

J. Marston

Damn, was hoping he'd challenge him to a street fight or something.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Mourinho confirmed Pogba will start against the Hammers, insisting he never considered dropping him.

“The relationship between player and manager is good. It is not any more a relationship between captain – or one of the captains – and manager.

“Nobody trained better than Paul on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. Some trained as well as him but nobody trained better than him and tomorrow he plays.”

When asked if he considered not playing Pogba, Mourinho replied: “No. He is a player like the others.

“No player is bigger than the club. If I am happy with his work, he plays. If I am not happy with his work he does not play.

“I am happy with his work this week, really happy.

“The team needs good players. He is a good player. The team needs players with the personality to play. He has [it]. So he plays tomorrow.”



also goes to prove a lot of the nonsense wrote on here about pogba is exactly that....nonsense

I wouldn't mind, I find when he is praising players it's really good, and really genuine and like he could have taken so many routes there but praising his training and aptitude.

I'd wish he would do it more often to be honest across the board. When he praises a player, and maybe because its the rarer scenario of the too, it seems really impactful and meaningful.

I think if he goes back to his earlier methods of having all the flak on him, and praising players individually and collectively, I think he will get people back onside pretty quickly.

It's something I do like about him that I probably didn't have exposure of before he was our manager, but when he praises or talks up a player, I genuinely feel he means it and I believe him utterly. Hard to describe maybe, but just seems different to sometimes how I read or see praises elsewhere.

Praise shouldn't be for praise sake, but I think he can have profound impacts on players when he's positive, just as he impacts negatively.

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Mourinho confirmed Pogba will start against the Hammers, insisting he never considered dropping him.

“The relationship between player and manager is good. It is not any more a relationship between captain – or one of the captains – and manager.

“Nobody trained better than Paul on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. Some trained as well as him but nobody trained better than him and tomorrow he plays.”

When asked if he considered not playing Pogba, Mourinho replied: “No. He is a player like the others.

“No player is bigger than the club. If I am happy with his work, he plays. If I am not happy with his work he does not play.

“I am happy with his work this week, really happy.

“The team needs good players. He is a good player. The team needs players with the personality to play. He has [it]. So he plays tomorrow.”



also goes to prove a lot of the nonsense wrote on here about pogba is exactly that....nonsense

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::D:D:D:D

Proves haha, you are good for a laugh

Hopefully our first proper look at matic, pogba and fred in midfield, a midfield i think can will click for us if everyone is on board

bangkok

Fred The Red wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::D:D:D:D

Proves haha, you are good for a laugh

Well if you read on here you would think pogba is another bebe.

Jose wouldnt have pogba near the first team if he was as bad and as lazy as is made out on here

patsat

Reading all this stuff about Paul Pogba over the last few weeks/months, I can't help but compare him to Mario Balotelli.

A decent list of accomplishments to their names, flashes of brilliance that make the whole footballing world turn their heads, but very inconsistent and largely a poor professional attitude.

Jose is quoted saying Mario Balotelli is "unmanageable"....I have a feeling when all is said and done, another one can be added to that list!

DM_7

bangkok wrote: »

Well if you read on here you would think pogba is another bebe.

Jose wouldnt have pogba near the first team if he was as bad and as lazy as is made out on here

Bollocks, they think he us not another Modric or De Bruyne or even Kante.

Simply put, more Veron than Keane in any significant positive influence.

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

Well if you read on here you would think pogba is another bebe.

Hmm

Did Bebe

- Cost £90 million?
- get a personal endorsement by the then CEO Gill who stated his reputation on the signing and couldn't really afford to have another big signing fail ?
- Consistently undermine SAF in public and possibly unsettle the squad as a result?
- Consistently bring drama whenever he was interviewed, at best leaving ambiguous messages about not being happy or getting fines if he really said what he wanted to say?
- Perform really well for Portugal and leave united with his dregs?
- need the team to be built around him?
- have a massive marketable value that meant even if he was playing poorly, he would be worth keeping for commercial reasons ?

Its all news to me . .

Drumpot

patsat wrote: »

Reading all this stuff about Paul Pogba over the last few weeks/months, I can't help but compare him to Mario Balotelli.

A decent list of accomplishments to their names, flashes of brilliance that make the whole footballing world turn their heads, but very inconsistent and largely a poor professional attitude.

Jose is quoted saying Mario Balotelli is "unmanageable"....I have a feeling when all is said and done, another one can be added to that list!

Ha, I was thinking that the other day. I was going to post a "why always me" pic of Balottelli but thought better of it . .

TheDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

Hopefully our first proper look at matic, pogba and fred in midfield, a midfield i think can will click for us if everyone is on board

Fred seems to be getting a lot of what I consider undeserved critique from outside of the club

Being labelled a dud or not good enough six games in? HAve to say hard for anyone to come into a dysfunctioning team, but I've liked what I've seen from him, the little we have.

Don't know if that is an edge opinion, but definitely want him in our midfield ahead of Fellaini