Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

Quandary

The club knew what they were getting into when they appointed Jose. The second they decided to close the purse strings in the summer was the beginning of the end imo. Mourinho becomes a very troublesome manager when he feels he is not being supported and now we are in a nosedive, created by a disgruntled manager, poor decision making at board room level, and a disillusioned squad.

Most other managers (Benitez, Poch) will just quietly get on with their job, even when they feel they are not being backed. They don't upset the apple cart, they barely moan to the media, and they try do the best they can with the resources they have. Lots of fans are complaining that Jose should do the same but that is just not going to happen. This was never going to happen with Mourinho. If Woodward/The board expected him to just quietly get on with his job after refusing to sign an extra player or two then they are truly naive.

They appointed Mourinho, they knew what they were getting and now they need to fix the problem. He is not going to suddenly stop being Mourinho so sacking him and getting in a manager who will behave the way the want would appear to be the only viable solution.

I just hope they have the balls to do what's needed to be done before our season is a complete washout.

Roger Hassenforder

Rio shows a flair for hyperbole:

"This could be the worst season in the club's history if something doesn't change - and fast. They've got to make a decision right now - bang.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/zinedine-zidane-to-manchester-united-reports-dismissed-as-pressure-mounts-on-jose-mourinho-37368946.html


I can think of some pretty bad ones

bangkok

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Rio shows a flair for hyperbole:

"This could be the worst season in the club's history if something doesn't change - and fast. They've got to make a decision right now - bang.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/zinedine-zidane-to-manchester-united-reports-dismissed-as-pressure-mounts-on-jose-mourinho-37368946.html


I can think of some pretty bad ones

I presume he is talking about premier league history

IamtheWalrus

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gnev2/status/1046298837952933888?s=21

I think I respect Fergie's opinion over GNev's (I respect both) but Fergie agreed with Moyes sacking. If he thought it was the board's fault, he would have had Moyes kept.

Mantis Toboggan

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Rio shows a flair for hyperbole:

"This could be the worst season in the club's history if something doesn't change - and fast. They've got to make a decision right now - bang.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/zinedine-zidane-to-manchester-united-reports-dismissed-as-pressure-mounts-on-jose-mourinho-37368946.html


I can think of some pretty bad ones

Isn't this our worst start to a season in 29 years?

Roger Hassenforder

bangkok wrote: »

I presume he is talking about premier league history

Maybe. But thats not what he said.

xtal191

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gnev2/status/1046298837952933888?s=21

Moyes deserved to be sacked, the mess started with him being hired.

Zeek12

One thing that's particularly worrying.....we've hardly even faced any difficult fixtures yet.

And already we're in this mess.

Spurs are the only top 6 side we've played.
They've had an indifferent start to the season anyway, but still embarrassed us.

5 of our 7 league games so far were against teams who finished 9th or lower last year, or in the case of Wolves, were just promoted.

Add to that a CL game against a group of Swiss underdogs.
And a league cup game - at home - against a Championship team.

This first 6 weeks of the season should have been a momentum builder

Not sure youve seen any of wolves but they are class be a tough game for everyone this season,

Wegner been apointed yet

nullzero

Zeek12 wrote: »

One thing that's particularly worrying.....we've hardly even faced any difficult fixtures yet.

And already we're in this mess.

Spurs are the only top 6 side we've played.
They've had an indifferent start to the season anyway, but still embarrassed us.

5 of our 7 league games so far were against teams who finished 9th or lower last year, or in the case of Wolves, were just promoted.

Add to that a CL game against a group of Swiss underdogs.
And a league cup game - at home - against a Championship team.

This first 6 weeks of the season should have been a momentum builder

The first six weeks have built momentum, downwards momentum.

IamtheWalrus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wegner been apointed yet

He's probably turned it down already because of Arsenal loyalty (read wouldn't touch us with a barge-pole).

sReq | uTeK

MD1990 wrote: »

When Mourinho wanted Maquire for 70m he should have been sacked the next day.

We said the same about liverpool and VVD. Not looking to shabby for them now

Hococop

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

We said the same about liverpool and VVD. Not looking to shabby for them now

Maybe about the price, but you knew vvd was a quality player

rekluse

I’d nearly give to Neville or even Scholes at this stage till the end of the season. Season is a write of anyways.They might be able to instil a bit of fight in the team and least get us playing some attacking football.

duffman13

rekluse wrote: »

I’d nearly give to Neville or even Scholes at this stage till the end of the season. Season is a write of anyways.They might be able to instil a bit of fight in the team and least get us playing some attacking football.

Give it Giggsy till end of season.

In all seriousness throw money at the manager the club want whether that's Pochettino, Zidane or whoever. Get the right person and let them build for 9 months.

Jose won't walk though and I dont see the club pushing in the short term

Rayne Wooney

rekluse wrote: »

I’d nearly give to Neville or even Scholes at this stage till the end of the season. Season is a write of anyways.They might be able to instil a bit of fight in the team and least get us playing some attacking football.

A return to the championship would be nice

rekluse

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

A return to the championship would be nice

Could they do any worse than Jose at the moment?

Trigger

rekluse wrote: »

Could they do any worse than Jose at the moment?

Yes.

rekluse

astradave wrote: »

Yes.

I seriously doubt that. Players have downed tools and there’s a toxic atmosphere around the club. Could do worse than getting someone in till the end of the season who actullay gives a **** about the club.

Turtwig

rekluse wrote: »

Could they do any worse than Jose at the moment?

Yep absolutely.
This sport isn't like it was 20 years ago. Players need to play in extensive system with coordinated instructions or any sub equal team individual wise with such systems will trounce them. Jose may, or may not be, the force he once was but there's still a multitude of worse that can be got than him. United next's appointment is going to be crucial. Whether you guys recognise it or not you have a top quality squad. It's just in dire need of a coordinator. Maybe Jose will step up to the plate but I think that ship has long set sail.

clubberlang12

rekluse wrote: »

I seriously doubt that. Players have downed tools and there’s a toxic atmosphere around the club. Could do worse than getting someone in till the end of the season who actullay gives a **** about the club.

So, scape goat Jose, because it's the players not performing. Then get in some one who cares about the club to manage players who obviously don't care for the club or the fans.

It's ironic that Mourinho probably has the most ambition for the club, but he will fall on his own sword because of it.

Drumpot

rekluse wrote: »

I seriously doubt that. Players have downed tools and there’s a toxic atmosphere around the club. Could do worse than getting someone in till the end of the season who actullay gives a **** about the club.

I agree, we could do with some players who don’t down tools and actually have some professional pride.... Some more with the attitude of Fellani would be nice...

Whether you want Jose out or not I can’t see how any united fan would be content with the performances on show. Players don’t have to like a coach to put in a competent shift to show some respect to the fans. Jose is not unable to coach or train a team so it’s not that he’s not training them to do a job.

rekluse

clubberlang12 wrote: »

So, scape goat Jose, because it's the players not performing. Then get in some one who cares about the club to manage players who obviously don't care for the club or the fans.

It's ironic that Mourinho probably has the most ambition for the club, but he will fall on his own sword because of it.

Don’t get me wrong I’d love to gut the squad also, but this obviously isn’t viable. As the manger of the club he has take responsibility for the environment he has created.

rekluse

Turtwig wrote: »

Yep absolutely.
This sport isn't like it was 20 years ago. Players need to play in extensive system with coordinated instructions or any sub equal team individual wise with such systems will trounce them. Jose may, or may not be, the force he once was but there's still a multitude of worse that can be got than him. United next's appointment is going to be crucial. Whether you guys recognise it or not you have a top quality squad. It's just in dire need of a coordinator. Maybe Jose will step up to the plate but I think that ship has long set sail.

I completely agree and there is no system at United at the moment. It is like 11 strangers playing out there at the moment and no continuity. They could barely string 3 passes together the other day. So I fail to see how someone like Neville or Scholes could do any worse.

Turtwig

I watched Neville's Valencia. I watched Valencia before Neville and after Neville.
I would not be recommending Gary Neville for any management role. He took a potential top four Liga candidate and turned them into complete cannon fodder. Maybe it was the Spanish language aspect that's the only benefit of the doubt one can give him. Either way, given United's stature it's not worth the risk.

Some day Gary might turn out to be great coach. His current track record is abysmal though.

rekluse

Turtwig wrote: »

I watched Neville's Valencia. I watched Valencia before Neville and after Neville.
I would not be recommending Gary Neville for any management role. He took a potential top four Liga candidate and turned them into complete cannon fodder. Maybe it was the Spanish language aspect that's the only benefit of the doubt one can give him. Either way, given United's stature it's not worth the risk.

Some day Gary might turn out to be great coach. His current track record is abysmal though.

I dunno if you heard it but his interview on second captains podcasts was great. He spoke quite in depth about his time at Valencia and acknowledged he made a lot of mistakes, worth a listen.

DM_7

Drumpot wrote: »

I agree, we could do with some players who don’t down tools and actually have some professional pride.... Some more with the attitude of Fellani would be nice...

Whether you want Jose out or not I can’t see how any united fan would be content with the performances on show. Players don’t have to like a coach to put in a competent shift to show some respect to the fans. Jose is not unable to coach or train a team so it’s not that he’s not training them to do a job.

Nobody is going to be content with lack of care but the perceived effort does not really mean much. The put in a shift idea is waffle and I am tired reading it all the time.

The idea that if the players run around and 'try' then things will go better is mad. It needs to be co-ordinated.

Simple quotes from a non related interview with Burnley's Jack Cork in the times, the man who ran further and played every minute of the league last season.

"There is a huge focus on the physical side and the pressing that did not exist five of six years ago". "There is no point just running everywhere". Back as a youth at Chelsea he remembers Rogers showing a video of Robbie Savage "we watched a clip once and he ran to one guy, then to one guy, then to one guy and Brendan said he is obviously working hard..... but he is running on his own and that is not how you want to do it. It has to be structured, everyone doing it together".

Do we see any sign of basic structure now or any useful physical exertion from Uniteds set up?

Of course Cork credits Poch for his first real engagement with the running. Who is the best runner this season, the guy at two last season, Eriksen. Chelsea have two in the top 5 (Kante anf Jorginho). But they are not running to show effort, they are working hard as part of a planned, structured game.

Jose's ideals are miles away from Poch, Klopp, Pep or Sarri. He does not have to go with that idea but he has not innovated a method to take on or find an advantage in his ideas to oppose what is becoming common in the league. He is attributed with actively telling sides to save energy during his career. We have witnessed games for United that can only be explained by him issuing similar instructions.

Mr.Nice Guy

I would be happy to see Laurent Blanc come in on an interim basis until the end of the season. He ticks a lot of boxes for me.

- Track record of attractive football.

- Has a United connection.

- Reckon he'd get more out of Pogba. He said around the time of the World Cup he thought Pogba was better than his old teammate Vieira. He's also a former French national coach.

- Would be available to start immediately and would probably welcome the chance to try and earn the job permanently with a good season.

- Is a class act and would not create headlines for all the wrong reasons.

If the plan is to look for a former United player to take the reins until the end of the season, he's the best candidate imo.

Turtwig

rekluse wrote: »

I dunno if you heard it but his interview on second captains podcasts was great. He spoke quite in depth about his time at Valencia and acknowledged he made a lot of mistakes, worth a listen.

Sounds interesting, do you have a link?

Drumpot

DM_7 wrote: »

Nobody is going to be content with lack of care but the perceived effort does not really mean much. The put in a shift idea is waffle and I am tired reading it all the time.

The idea that if the players run around and 'try' then things will go better is mad. It needs to be co-ordinated.

Simple quotes from a non related interview with Burnley's Jack Cork in the times, the man who ran further and played every minute of the league last season.

"There is a huge focus on the physical side and the pressing that did not exist five of six years ago". "There is no point just running everywhere". Back as a youth at Chelsea he remembers Rogers showing a video of Robbie Savage "we watched a clip once and he ran to one guy, then to one guy, then to one guy and Brendan said he is obviously working hard..... but he is running on his own and that is not how you want to do it. It has to be structured, everyone doing it together".

Do we see any sign of basic structure now or any useful physical exertion from Uniteds set up?

Of course Cork credits Poch for his first real engagement with the running. Who is the best runner this season, the guy at two last season, Eriksen. Chelsea have two in the top 5 (Kante anf Jorginho). But they are not running to show effort, they are working hard as part of a planned, structured game.

Jose's ideals are miles away from Poch, Klopp, Pep or Sarri. He does not have to go with that idea but he has not innovated a method to take on or find an advantage in his ideas to oppose what is becoming common in the league. He is attributed with actively telling sides to save energy during his career. We have witnessed games for United that can only be explained by him issuing similar instructions.

I’m not talking about running around like headless chickens. Are you suggesting that United finished 2nd in the league with a coach who can’t coach a team? What happened over the summer that made Jose incapable of setting up or training a team?

The narrative is that Jose has lost the dressing room and his man management style is outdated for a modern footballer. That implies the team aren’t bothered carrying out his instructions , not that he can’t set the team up in a competent manner.

rekluse

Turtwig wrote: »

Sounds interesting, do you have a link?

https://soundcloud.com/secondcaptains/garyneville-second-captains-premier-league-night-with-cadbury-2018-100818

LiamoSail

If United are looking for a DoF, it'd be madness to appoint a new manager prior to the appointment of a DoF. Hire the DoF and let him have an input into the selection of a manager he can work with, ensuring both are singing from the same hymn sheet.

Headshot

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I would be happy to see Laurent Blanc come in on an interim basis until the end of the season. He ticks a lot of boxes for me.

- Track record of attractive football.

- Has a United connection.

- Reckon he'd get more out of Pogba. He said around the time of the World Cup he thought Pogba was better than his old teammate Vieira. He's also a former French national coach.

- Would be available to start immediately and would probably welcome the chance to try and earn the job permanently with a good season.

- Is a class act and would not create headlines for all the wrong reasons.

If the plan is to look for a former United player to take the reins until the end of the season, he's the best candidate imo.

That is a great shout. I totally forgot about him.

Better choice than Zidane too

DM_7

Drumpot wrote: »

I’m not talking about running around like headless chickens. Are you suggesting that United finished 2nd in the league with a coach who can’t coach a team? What happened over the summer that made Jose incapable of setting up or training a team?

The narrative is that Jose has lost the dressing room and his man management style is outdated for a modern footballer. That implies the team aren’t bothered carrying out his instructions , not that he can’t set the team up in a competent manner.

On your last paragraph, I don't think that is the case, that his ideas are outdated or that players are not bothered listening. It is more about the environment and chaos going on that is the ptoblem.

Yes, I am saying he is not capable of setting up his team right now. This is not the same scenario as last term. He did very well last season. Big issue is thay when Jose loses results we have seen toxic mode set in so I have little hope he can turn it around as much as I would like him to.

This season has created an environment more of anarchy than consistency. Look at his team selections, team choices so far. All over the place. Third season and he is still left passing the buck to players, questioning attitude and focus even though it is his job to provide an environment where they exist.

Any narrative that he is outdated is shirt sighted. The problem now is he is in constant conflict and that kills a team. The team are not primed for success as can be seen in their results.

Jose has yet to impose his identity on United, he did not go hard enough on his ideals. What we are left with is not a team in his image or the image of what United were perceived to be.

Drumpot

rekluse wrote: »

https://soundcloud.com/secondcaptains/garyneville-second-captains-premier-league-night-with-cadbury-2018-100818

That’s a brilliant listen..... Thanks for that....

pjohnson

I'd much prefer Blanc over Zidane aswell actually.

Hopefully if we do get a French manager the first thing we do is snap up Ndombele.

Your Airbag

If the players have downed tools for Jose, and its happened to him before then he is causing an atmosphere that a) is so tense and uncomfortable that the players feel forced to do this and b) a situation where this is allowed, so he has lost control, or lost the dressing room if you will.

Fergie fell out with individual big names but always had the majority of the players on his side and he had the man management to know how far to push people without creating a toxic atmosphere.

As unwanted as players downing tools is for us UTD fans this is not the first time Jose has essentially got his own team to turn against him so he is both the cause and the problem and needs to be shown the door asap if this is the case.

Lord TSC

Much the same as Zidane, I have no real working knowledge of Blanc, outside a lazy "sure, I could do it with PSG" thought.

MNG says he plays attacking football?

dave_o_brien

The idea that Mou needs to go because he isn't going to deliver the goods is flawed given he has already delivered an amount if success.

The idea he will continue to do so is flawed because he is in a pattern of behaviour we have all seen before which is aggressively destructive. The club would be right in thanking him for his successful reign and wishing him all the best in the future elsewhere.

I was very excited to see Pogba return, and Alexis signed, but both are amongst many players underwhelming. I hope we get a new manager who is not afraid of relying on the wider squad, i.e., dropping both from the starting 11 and notifying both they are both important members of the squad, but nobody is guaranteed a starting berth on reputation or profile. This is a team and requires buy in and respect from every single member, and those who don't start had better be the biggest fan boys for those who do come match day. Every other day, work as hard as possible to make the gaffers decision making hell.

I don't know who that is, but it ain't Jose. Players can and should be benched/rotated. Managers can't be.

bangkok

i presume united dont want to sack jose with the valencia game coming up quickly and then the newcastle game, but he is a dead man walking. he has lost the dressing room.

uncleoswald

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It just look silly reading posts above with people laying into Mourinho’s “negative tactics” that have worked at every other club he has managed and won him more than any other active manager.

You sound like his PR man. I feel it's a case of diminishing returns with Mourinho. It happens to most people, it's tough to stay at the top of your game forever, particularly with his style of management. Ferguson was a freak to stay relevant for as long as he did and he had to constantly adapt, something Jose doesn't seem capable of. I don't think United will be the last club Jose fails at but I guess we'll see.

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It’s amazing people still don’t comprehend what others are saying when they say Mourinho hasn’t been backed.

Comprehend? Please :rolleyes: People comprehend it just fine and simply disagree with that narrative. United could have spent another billion and City might still be uncatchable. Jose has however been backed enough that we should still be a formidable, improving side playing with purpose and and identity, that lesser teams fear. He may not be 100% backed every transfer window but he is still being given funds, with 80million euro on two players this summer (with neither purchase making the starting eleven yesterday.) With hundreds of millions previously spent on other players with a very questionable success rates.

After three years we should be beginning to see the team take shape with a clear identity, with the players showing signs that they are taking Jose ideas on board. It will take time to catch City but this was the club where Jose was apparently going to build a legacy and stay at for years to come, he needs to show patience and show that he is slowly improving the squad and team. But if he's not capable of that (and there were many saying this at the time he was appointed) and just wants Untied to buy instant success then he never should have taken the job.

Mr.Nice Guy

Lord TSC wrote: »

Much the same as Zidane, I have no real working knowledge of Blanc, outside a lazy "sure, I could do it with PSG" thought.

MNG says he plays attacking football?

Yeah, he likes his team to play on the front foot. There's a good article here on his philosophy, though it's from a few years back. Some notable quotes:

"My philosophy won't change," Blanc told This is Paris. "Win, and win with possession. If you want to keep the ball, hurt your opponents with it and make them run, then you're attacking, you're creative. When you want to play attacking football you need excellent, intelligent players."

While some coaches focus much of their attention on preventing the opponent from playing, Blanc's approach is entirely focused on his own team. Whomever PSG play, he wants his men to win the ball, use it well and make the opposition do the running.

"I want my team to dominate possession. That's the way it is," Blanc declared. "My philosophy remains the same, it's mine and it won't change. I think that a lot of my players, if not all of them, share this philosophy. That means that they prefer to have the ball, they prefer to make the opponent run, and they prefer to attack, rather than defend, because, believe me, it's much more fun to attack. And don't forget, I was a defender!

"The formation isn't as important as the philosophy. If you are an attacking team then you take the ball and you make your opponents run themselves in to the ground. Then you're a creative team. That's where a coach's decision to choose a certain philosophy over another becomes important. He needs to know the strengths of his squad."

Blanc: 'We'll get there'

There's certainly no shortage of technical brilliance in Blanc's squad, with the players not only capable of executing the plan, but seemingly already converted to the manager's cause.

"When you want to play attacking football you have to excellent, intelligent players. We're lucky enough to have those players at Paris and that's why I want to share my philosophy with them. They agree with it! They're really committed to the cause. You can sense that. It takes a lot of work, a lot of time and patience. We got there last year, and we'll get this year, even if it's taken us a little longer to get going. The problem in football is that people aren't patient. We had an excellent season last year and because of that people felt it wasn't possible for us to have a few slip-ups at the start of this season."

He was sacked at PSG primarily for not advancing them in the Champions League, and they were convinced they would do better in Europe without him, yet his successor Emery couldn't kick them on; and Emery had better players to work with than Blanc. Domestically, he did a great job and his playing style was popular.

I'd say he's worth a shot, at least on a temporary basis. I reckon he'd lift the club.

Rayne Wooney

Mourinho will be gone within the next 4 weeks, his position is untenable now. The players can play badly without consequences as they can hide behind the headline the media will latch on to “Mourinho has lost the dressing room”, I wouldn’t be surprised to see us near relagation if he is given until Christmas.

If the choice is between Blanc or Zidane I would lean towards ZZ simply because of those champions league wins and potentially having a special touch, Blanc is a bit of a known quantity. The reality is both could be completely average and struggle to put it up to Pep and Klopp. Turbulent times ahead,

rekluse

Has there been any strong eveidence that Zidane is interested in the job? I’ve been pretty busy last couple weeks so haven’t been following the rumour mill that closely. I just can’t imagine that someone of his stature would to go near the job at the moment.

Mitch Connor

rekluse wrote: »

Has there been any strong eveidence that Zidane is interested in the job? I’ve been pretty busy last couple weeks so haven’t been following the rumour mill that closely. I just can’t imagine that someone of his stature would to go near the job at the moment.

no strong evidence, no. But a load of stories, from a few different countries, saying he is very interested.

but in terms of evidence.. no. He hasn't given an interview saying he wants it. He hasn't been pictued in London talking to Woodward.

Zico !

Give it to Giggs till the end of the season

bangkok

Zico ! wrote: »

Give it to Giggs till the end of the season

managing wales, i doubt he would take it or united would offer it

DM_7

Lord TSC wrote: »

Much the same as Zidane, I have no real working knowledge of Blanc, outside a lazy "sure, I could do it with PSG" thought.

MNG says he plays attacking football?

He did well at Bordeaux, winning the league which got him the France job.

One big thing he has in his favour is he dealt well with the melt down of the France National team. Whoever comes in will need that.

As a former United player and league winner he also gets what helped United tick (On SAF):

"I think he's someone who has a gift for handling human beings," Blanc told RMC. "What really surprised me was that he had great players in front of him who he considered his sons, because he'd known some of them since they were 12. I'm not surprised that today players like Giggs, Scholes and Gary Neville are still there. They're with their father. The club has a family feel to it even if it's one of the biggest clubs in the world."

But is not overly tainted by being there too long.

jharr100

Just saw this on twitter during the week . Our Glazer debt repayments and interest is eye watering.

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1044601193190891520?s=09