Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

I remember Jose Mk II pre-season when Chelsea won 2 games on penalties and drew/lost the rest but because we won the title the season before hand it felt like everything would be grand but their was clear discontent brewing under the surface between Mourinho and the players. However, he still signed a new 4 year contract.

Throw in a sh*te transfer window, when he never got the players he wanted and was vocal about it to the media.

If you swapped around Chelsea with Utd in the above brief you could be talking about the exact same situation, bar the title win.

Before he was sacked, he won 3 PL games, all at home, lost 9 and drew 3.

Every time we felt it couldnt get worse some horror show would happen and he fell out with a lot of senior players along the way. Its much easier for a club to replace the manager than a group of players and at the time I was furious we sacked Mourinho but in hindsight, it was a blessing.

I get the what you are saying I just honestly don't see what the long term goals are. We move on to our 4th manager in 5 years now.
Ridiculous carry on from the club but glazers I doubt give a toss once Woodward keeps reeling in the dosh. I'm convinced we have become the new Arsenal.

DARK-KNIGHT

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

This is just embarrassing for the club

Change has to happen

You will only get the short term fix

bangkok

with the current united squad, theres only a couple of tweaks needed to improve the football 10 fold.

for example going with this 11......

---

de gea

---

dalot

---

bailly

---

smalling

---

shaw

---

fred

---

matic

---

pogba

---

lingard

---

sanchez

---

---

lukaku

---

get the team to push 10 yards forward from defence, we are sitting way too deep as a team, opposition teams must love playing against us.

width provided by both dalot and shaw who are both fast and can both cross, have them both on the front foot playing like actual wingers, matic can drop deep when they go forward

sanchez and lingard are free to roam around making runs in behind

if we attack and push up as a team, that 11 is good enough to hurt any team going forward

Your Airbag

GavRedKing wrote: »

I remember Jose Mk II pre-season when Chelsea won 2 games on penalties and drew/lost the rest but because we won the title the season before hand it felt like everything would be grand but their was clear discontent brewing under the surface between Mourinho and the players. However, he still signed a new 4 year contract.

Throw in a sh*te transfer window, when he never got the players he wanted and was vocal about it to the media.

If you swapped around Chelsea with Utd in the above brief you could be talking about the exact same situation, bar the title win.

Before he was sacked, he won 3 PL games, all at home, lost 9 and drew 3.

Every time we felt it couldnt get worse some horror show would happen and he fell out with a lot of senior players along the way. Its much easier for a club to replace the manager than a group of players and at the time I was furious we sacked Mourinho but in hindsight, it was a blessing.

The parallels between UTD now and Jose 3rd season during his second term at Chelsea are stark. Its uncannily similar. The cynic could argue this is how Jose rolls now and its by design. He feels like he has had enough past success to be as inflexible as he wishes.

Hococop

To be honest I did not think we would have a repeat of what Chelsea had with him, I felt this was Jose's last Chance before taking a pundit/international role so I thought he would be focused, guess I was wrong

0gac3yjefb5sv7

We are also a lazy team. We have covered the smallest distance in the last two years of any premier league team. The team that runs the furthest doesn't win the league but it's usually at least in the top 6. Our players don't over extend themselves ever in comparison to Liverpool or City. It's not good enough.

Backstreet Moyes

LiamoSail wrote: »

Interesting to compare the reaction of Pochitino and Klopp to Mourinho having not being backed.

Pochitino wasn't backed at all this summer while 12 months ago Liverpool made a complete pigs ear of their attempts to sign VVD. Both Klopp and Pochitino were left in a similar situation to what Mourinho has been this year, yet managed to carry on without the belligerence and doom that seems to typify Mourinho's 3rd seasons.

Mourinho may not have been backed to the extent he would like, but he's still got a responsibility to manage what he has and in that regard, he seems content to instead drive it off a cliff

Both of them don't have the pressure and expectation that Mourinho has.

None of them are winners like Mourinho is. He is a winner and knew we couldn't close the gap on City without new signings.

It was always going to happen a winner who is not used to failure knowing he was going into a season with no hope of winning the league.

Mourinho cares more about united getting back to the top than Woodward or the board and the players.

I want the next manager to be vocal about needing big investment in the team as it is needed.

Pochettino said he didn't care about winning the fa cup how could you trust him to get united back to the top.

Mourinho is the best manager available but it is not to be and that is on Woodward he knows what Mourinho is like.

Once Mourinho was so vocal about getting rid of players this summer he had to be backed or sacked.

Woodward did neither and we are seeing exactly what a lot of people expected.

The players who have underformed for years and Woodward who is the reason we are in this mess will still be here next season when we are scratching our head wondering why the new manager is struggling for the top 4.

SlickRic

Your Airbag wrote: »

The parallels between UTD now and Jose 3rd season during his second term at Chelsea are stark. Its uncannily similar. The cynic could argue this is how Jose rolls now and its by design. He feels like he has had enough past success to be as inflexible as he wishes.

it's how he rolls if he doesn't get what he wants.

agree with it or not, if you buy into Mourinho, you buy into backing him with a chequebook. now, other top managers need a chequebook too, but the problem with him is that if he doesn't get it when he feels he needs it, you get the slow car crash you're seeing now.

but again, the board are stupid for not realising that this is what would happen if they went down the route they went.

Backstreet Moyes

bangkok wrote: »

with the current united squad, theres only a couple of tweaks needed to improve the football 10 fold.

for example going with this 11......

---

de gea

---

dalot

---

bailly

---

smalling

---

shaw

---

fred

---

matic

---

pogba

---

lingard

---

sanchez

---

---

lukaku

---

get the team to push 10 yards forward from defence, we are sitting way too deep as a team, opposition teams must love playing against us.

width provided by both dalot and shaw who are both fast and can both cross, have them both on the front foot playing like actual wingers, matic can drop deep when they go forward

sanchez and lingard are free to roam around making runs in behind

if we attack and push up as a team, that 11 is good enough to hurt any team going forward

I don't see how anyone could suggest Fred starts ahead of Fellaini.

Lingard is average, Sanchez your vocal about how bad he is and you don't rate Lukaku as top class

Dalot we have no idea how good he is, Baily is always injured and Smalling well he is decent not great.

fergiesfolly

In many ways Mourinho is as bad as Pogba.
Didn't get the backing he thought he deserved during the transfer window and went straight to the press moaning about it. Used players( McTominay and Herrera) in positions completely out of their comfort zone and moaned that it's the players fault for not following his orders.
Why couldn't he have kept his mouth shut after the transfer window closed,put his head down and got on with the job. Worked with the players he had, to overcome the shortfalls and build as strong and unified a group as possible.
If Pogbas attitude is bad, Mourinhos is worse. Looking out for number one and using your subordinates as cannon fodder when you're the manager is going to destroy any cohesiveness within a group.
His histrionics have destabilised the club and split the squad.
It's time to go.

bangkok

Pheonix10 wrote: »

We are also a lazy team. We have covered the smallest distance in the last two years of any premier league team. The team that runs the furthest doesn't win the league but it's usually at least in the top 6. Our players don't over extend themselves ever in comparison to Liverpool or City. It's not good enough.

thats because we allow the opposition to have the ball, we usually just fall back and they pass it as they please. depressing to watch

LiamoSail

Nuts102 wrote: »

Both of them don't have the pressure and expectation that Mourinho has.

None of them are winners like Mourinho is. He is a winner and knew we couldn't close the gap on City without new signings.

It was always going to happen a winner who is not used to failure knowing he was going into a season with no hope of winning the league.

Mourinho cares more about united getting back to the top than Woodward or the board and the players.

I want the next manager to be vocal about needing big investment in the team as it is needed.

Pochettino said he didn't care about winning the fa cup how could you trust him to get united back to the top.

Mourinho is the best manager available but it is not to be and that is on Woodward he knows what Mourinho is like.

Once Mourinho was so vocal about getting rid of players this summer he had to be backed or sacked.

Woodward did neither and we are seeing exactly what a lot of people expected.

The players who have underformed for years and Woodward who is the reason we are in this mess will still be here next season when we are scratching our head wondering why the new manager is struggling for the top 4.

If Mourinho was the professional, the winner you claim he is, he wouldn't have thrown in the towel the way he has. A real professional would be doing the best with what they have

Your Airbag

SlickRic wrote: »

it's how he rolls if he doesn't get what he wants.

agree with it or not, if you buy into Mourinho, you buy into backing him with a chequebook. now, other top managers need a chequebook too, but the problem with him is that if he doesn't get it when he feels he needs it, you get the slow car crash you're seeing now.

but again, the board are stupid for not realising that this is what would happen if they went down the route they went.

He got players every summer. Reports say we a got a straight no from Maguire's reps. Nobody knows for sure but given that Jose is benching his CB signings and the club bought in other areas for him but lets presume they said make the CB's you have work instead of dropping 70m on Maguire then I have no problem with that. Nothing we are seeing happening would be fixed with Maguire, he would be in the same limited system and surrounded by an under preforming squad restricted by tactics.

bangkok

Nuts102 wrote: »

I don't see how anyone could suggest Fred starts ahead of Fellaini.

Lingard is average, Sanchez your vocal about how bad he is and you don't rate Lukaku as top class

Dalot we have no idea how good he is, Baily is always injured and Smalling well he is decent not great.

fred is a much better footballer than fellaini

Lingard is excellent at making runs in behind, sanchez has been shocking but everyone knows he is world class on his day.

dalot or young on right, someone who can cross a ball first time. Bailly has been fit all season so far

lukaku isnt top class, but is still our best striker by a mile

its the tactics that is making us look bad and play bad, all the players are miles better than they are showing

SlickRic

Your Airbag wrote: »

He got players every summer. Reports say we a got a straight no from Maguire's reps. Nobody knows for sure but given that Jose is benching his CB signings and the club bought in other areas for him but lets presume they said make the CB's you have work instead of dropping 70m on Maguire then I have no problem with that. Nothing we are seeing happening would be fixed with Maguire, he would be in the same limited system and surrounded by an under preforming squad restricted by tactics.

i agree.

as i said, his position is now untenable.

he's not helped himself with how he's treated certain players, and the failures of certain signings.

but blame also lies with the board. don't give him a contract if you won't give him the money he always wants. for better or worse, that's how he rolls and gets his results. you can tell him to use the CBs he bought, but he'd made it quite clear that they weren't now good enough in his view.

don't give him a contract if you're not willing to upgrade for him. Maguire wouldn't solve it. far from it. he's hilariously overrated. the most overrated player i've seen in recent history. but if you give José the contract, you can't look at a list of 5 positions/players he wants addressed, and not really give him any, bar the one that was arguably easiest to get in Dalot. that is utterly ludicrous.

LuckyLloyd

tayto lover wrote: »

Managers can't be allowed to go on forever "buying the title".
That has to stop. Money is dictating everything.
Mourinho is sulking because he wasn't given the money to do so, that's his gripe.
I hope it returns to the old ways when clubs have to bring young players through like Ferguson did.

The short answer to that is the rules are the same for everyone and Utd have no essential limitations in these areas. For a longer response:

The past is the past. Football is now globalised. You simply don't have to 'bring young players through' in the way that you once did. You set up an academy and farm system, but the objective is to make money out of it rather than to refill your senior team. Make no mistake about it, Chelsea and City have lavishly invested in youth over the past half decade. But it's a method to offset FFP regulations and turn a side profit and increase the reach of both clubs around the globe. I'm sure Utd are doing the same thing. Young players are still developed and cut their teeth playing first team football - it's just that they do it on season long loan at a feeder club.

But when you need a player you go out and you pay the money. Because you need him now.

Utd and Ferguson were partially so successful because they adapted better to the context of the early nineties than their opponents. Off the field they generated far more revenue, and on the pitch they brought through a generational group of players that formed a core of multiple championship winning teams. The techniques and approaches on all fronts were innovative and they had a flexible adaptable hard nosed leader at the helm pulling it all together.

The key is that - while big money is a pre requisite - it doesn't guarantee anything in of itself. If you spend on the wrong players; if you fail to instill the right culture and sell it to everyone inside and outside of the dressing room; if you're unwilling to adapt as necessary you will fail. Utd are not failing because of investment, even though they can argue that City have spent more. There is enough money there to perform better than they have to start the season. But in terms of positivity, leadership and building a winning culture Mourinho is failing. That's not just about the results - the ever building media circus is simply not conducive to achieving the standards the club aspires to.

Just because you have many problems (board, mix of players, transfer policy) doesn't mean you don't fix a major problem: the manager.

Your Airbag

Pheonix10 wrote: »

We are also a lazy team. We have covered the smallest distance in the last two years of any premier league team. The team that runs the furthest doesn't win the league but it's usually at least in the top 6. Our players don't over extend themselves ever in comparison to Liverpool or City. It's not good enough.

This is by design, or rather we look lazy due to how Jose has us set up. We stand off, we don't high press and we hand over possession and wait for the opposition to make a mistake. Then we try counter.

Teams are just passing through us, its not working but Jose won't change, he is problem number 1 right now and needs moving on.

TheDoc

Mourinho has never shown an ability to turn anything around, or come out of a slump. It just tailspins into devastation. Club need to grow a pair, see history repeating and make the change. He has no clue, idea or notion about how to save this. He hasn't shown any creative invention in about 8 years, he doesn't have any cards left to play he didn't show in his very first season with us.

Ship him out, clean slate, save some pride and CL this season and allow a new manager a head start to assess, ahead of next summer.

Jesus, atleast other clubs had a league title to remember before the third season implosion. This is just dreadful. Appreciate Lord TSC might call me up on that "lazy narrative" but it's literally the well known truth.

The only thing that has occured in this Mourinho reign that wasn't called here in this very forum when he signed, or couldn't have been told from a very repetitive career (those with blinkers just ignore the obvious cycles) is some tangible success in the CL or league.

duploelabs

TheDoc wrote: »

Mourinho has never shown an ability to turn anything around, or come out of a slump. It just tailspins into devastation. Club need to grow a pair, see history repeating and make the change. He has no clue, idea or notion about how to save this. He hasn't shown any creative invention in about 8 years, he doesn't have any cards left to play he didn't show in his very first season with us.

Ship him out, clean slate, save some pride and CL this season and allow a new manager a head start to assess, ahead of next summer.

Jesus, atleast other clubs had a league title to remember before the third season implosion. This is just dreadful. Appreciate Lord TSC might call me up on that "lazy narrative" but it's literally the well known truth.

The only thing that has occured in this Mourinho reign that wasn't called here in this very forum when he signed, or couldn't have been told from a very repetitive career (those with blinkers just ignore the obvious cycles) is some tangible success in the CL or league.

A Chelsea fan coming in peace, but all the signs were there. What amazes me is that you don't look at what happened to us when Jose got shunted out the second time.
Exactly the same team issues, exactly the same playing players out of position, the same reliance on players who were out of form, exactly the same blaming of lack of backing in the previous transfer window...



it's all happening again

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Ship him out, clean slate, save some pride and CL this season and allow a new manager a head start to assess, ahead of next summer.

This is where i am at.

The big issue though is who - there are obvious candidates, and I don't see the club looking beyond them (cause we just aren't that type of club, imo).

Pochetino is basically a non-starter imo, he'd have to resign first, and I don't see him doing it. We could also forget about ever doing business with Spurs again, not that it was easy as is.

Simone - I don't see him leaving Madrid during the season and he is an incredibly defensive manager. His style is similar to Jose, imo, just getting a lot more success from his side.

Blanc - was being seriously touted a number of years ago - back when he was with Bordeaux, which he did very well at. Had them, and PSG playing very good foortball and lost his job due to the CL. PSG is a weird club. I dunno. Can't remember how France went for him tbh.

Zidane - poor in the league last year, great pedigree in the CL though. I would have question marks on him cause doing it at Real with guys like Ramos, Ronaldo, Modric, Bale is a different beast to United altogether. I would have him as United's likely first choice cause (1) He's available (2) don't have to pay a club for him (3) Massive name (4) Massive pedigree.

I just think fixing the club goes beyond the short term fix of changing the manager. Woodward needs to change the structures at the club with regards to the football side. He needs to somewhat remove himself from the decision making and put proper football people in there.

TheDoc

duploelabs wrote: »

A Chelsea fan coming in peace, but all the signs were there. What amazes me is that you don't look at what happened to us when Jose got shunted out the second time.
Exactly the same team issues, exactly the same playing players out of position, the same reliance on players who were out of form, exactly the same blaming of lack of backing in the previous transfer window...



it's all happening again

Many if not all of clearly were under the impression "wouldn't happen to us" even though signs were there his very first season he was clearly struggling or damaged goods. I think anyone that wasn't aware of the baggage he brings were just being fools, there was plenty of good discussion even before Van Gaal got sacked about how he needed to change X or Y, and even from day dot people raised issues and concerns. But it was more fascination to see how it goes, and obviously everyone was under the impression we would get success, which we did not. I'm not buying anyone giving a Europa League and league cup as some metric of success.

You will still have people even now put his very obvious history as myth or nonsense. And look, some people will just maintain that opinion and its fine.

But I know for me I couldn't contemplate a manager of that experience and success being so absolutely stupid as to not appreciate he needed to change at United, and his usual template wouldn't work.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

This is where i am at.

The big issue though is who - there are obvious candidates, and I don't see the club looking beyond them (cause we just aren't that type of club, imo).

Pochetino is basically a non-starter imo, he'd have to resign first, and I don't see him doing it. We could also forget about ever doing business with Spurs again, not that it was easy as is.

Managers can get signing on fees or bonuses just like players or any other industry where contracts like that operate.

He can resign, get a payment upon joining United and likely be on substantially more wages anyway.

He played it cool like Jose should have. If anyone had reason for going spacker it was him anyway, not Jose. For all we know, he's waiting to be asked to jump ship from Spurs. Who knows.

That's the point though, he played his bad hand perfectly over the summer and into this season.

J. Marston

From a Reddit thread;

United only registered 59 sprints all game on Saturday, the lowest in the league. In 18 minutes Snodgrass managed more sprints than Lukaku did in 90.

Looking at Liverpool who were in a similar situation to us this weekend in that they were losing for most of the game. They registered 154 sprints to our 59. We are a pathetically passive side.

sReq | uTeK

Pheonix10 wrote: »

We are also a lazy team. We have covered the smallest distance in the last two years of any premier league team. The team that runs the furthest doesn't win the league but it's usually at least in the top 6. Our players don't over extend themselves ever in comparison to Liverpool or City. It's not good enough.

We finished 2nd, imagine if we ran more?

duploelabs

TheDoc wrote: »

Many if not all of clearly were under the impression "wouldn't happen to us" even though signs were there his very first season he was clearly struggling or damaged goods. I think anyone that wasn't aware of the baggage he brings were just being fools, there was plenty of good discussion even before Van Gaal got sacked about how he needed to change X or Y, and even from day dot people raised issues and concerns. But it was more fascination to see how it goes, and obviously everyone was under the impression we would get success, which we did not. I'm not buying anyone giving a Europa League and league cup as some metric of success.

You will still have people even now put his very obvious history as myth or nonsense. And look, some people will just maintain that opinion and its fine.

But I know for me I couldn't contemplate a manager of that experience and success being so absolutely stupid as to not appreciate he needed to change at United, and his usual template wouldn't work.

And you've hinted at the real issue there.

I'm sure the Utd board analysed the problems with what happened with us.

I'm sure they knew that in hiring Jose you would have these issues and thus have put in measure to stop this happening again.

But did they?

Jose looks f*cked now, but they surely knew what to do should this arise, given that they did their due diligence before hiring them??

Seems to me that whomever is making these decisions, The board/Woodward/Fergie's influence/whomever, needs to be put under the kosh or else the same problems will happen again and again

GavRedKing

Fred The Red wrote: »

I get the what you are saying I just honestly don't see what the long term goals are. We move on to our 4th manager in 5 years now.
Ridiculous carry on from the club but glazers I doubt give a toss once Woodward keeps reeling in the dosh. I'm convinced we have become the new Arsenal.

The football landscape has changed so much now in the last 10/15 years that the idea of a long term manager is practically unheard of. Utd and Chelsea too need a longer term vision and to stick with it. Pool and City seem to be pretty clear in where they're going or at least where they should be going. City bought into Peps vision early, before he ever turned up at the Etihad and its reaped rewards. Klopp and Pep both have squads setup in their moulds and will get success due to it. Poch has too but was screwed in the summer by Levy so if they stay top 4 this season it will be a miracle.

The carrot and stick approach Jose usually operates with can only work for so long before it alienates players and fans, the cost clubs and fans usually offset his methods against is success but hes not really delivered on that front.

Your Airbag wrote: »

The parallels between UTD now and Jose 3rd season during his second term at Chelsea are stark. Its uncannily similar. The cynic could argue this is how Jose rolls now and its by design. He feels like he has had enough past success to be as inflexible as he wishes.

It is, its kind of scary, I dont see Utd being 16th in the league after 12 games before hes sacked though, he had enough brownie points from his Chelsea spell to prolong the inevitable for about 6 games more than he should have been given, Utd, if they are a commercial success will have to stop the rot at some stage, many games before it ever gets that bad.

You'd have to feel that for Utd, the PL is gone for another year, the Carabao Cup is gone (not important), the Champs League looks beyond them at the moment, would an fa cup win and a top 4 finish be enough to drag Jose into a 4th season?

If it did it could see a number of key players leaving as he sulks his way through the current season.

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

This is where i am at.

The big issue though is who

I personally couldn't give a single hoot who it is, I just wish the club would get on with it.

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

The football landscape has changed so much now in the last 10/15 years that the idea of a long term manager is practically unheard of. Utd and Chelsea too need a longer term vision and to stick with it. Pool and City seem to be pretty clear in where they're going or at least where they should be going. City bought into Peps vision early, before he ever turned up at the Etihad and its reaped rewards. Klopp and Pep both have squads setup in their moulds and will get success due to it. Poch has too but was screwed in the summer by Levy so if they stay top 4 this season it will be a miracle.

The carrot and stick approach Jose usually operates with can only work for so long before it alienates players and fans, the cost clubs and fans usually offset his methods against is success but hes not really delivered on that front.

The long term goal is for the issues that are clear at board level to be addressed which I have absolutely no faith in the club doing.
From reading this thread the majority of the people who want Jose out the door think think that it's the solution to Utd's problems and to drop in yet another manager like Zidane, Potch, Blanc or whoever it may be and think that everything will be fine and dandy.

Sacking Jose isn't going to make **** of a difference. You might see some little boost from the players and especially the ones who have outlasted 3 mangers now but the same problems will rise their ugly heads again in about a year or two and we will be in the exact same position again.

The club is a circus of nonsense at the moment and it's really hard to see how we get out of this.

Zeek12

Mitch Connor wrote: »

This is where i am at.

The big issue though is who - there are obvious candidates, and I don't see the club looking beyond them (cause we just aren't that type of club, imo).

Pochetino is basically a non-starter imo, he'd have to resign first, and I don't see him doing it. We could also forget about ever doing business with Spurs again, not that it was easy as is.

Simone - I don't see him leaving Madrid during the season and he is an incredibly defensive manager. His style is similar to Jose, imo, just getting a lot more success from his side.

Blanc - was being seriously touted a number of years ago - back when he was with Bordeaux, which he did very well at. Had them, and PSG playing very good foortball and lost his job due to the CL. PSG is a weird club. I dunno. Can't remember how France went for him tbh.

Blanc took over France in 2010 at a time when they were in chaos.

Several players fell out with the manager, Domenech at that years World cup, where they finished bottom of their group.

He did Ok as French manager.
Nothing spectacular but got them back on track - took them to Q-Finals at Euros in 2012.

GavRedKing

Fred The Red wrote: »

The long term goal is for the issues that are clear at board level to be addressed which I have absolutely no faith in the club doing.
From reading this thread the majority of the people who want Jose out the door think think that it's the solution to Utd's problems and to drop in yet another manager like Zidane, Potch, Blanc or whoever it may be and think that everything will be fine and dandy.

Sacking Jose isn't going to make **** of a difference. You might see some little boost from the players and especially the ones who have outlasted 3 mangers now but the same problems will rise their ugly heads again in about a year or two and we will be in the exact same position again.

The club is a circus of nonsense at the moment and it's really hard to see how we get out of this.

The bolded part is something most Utd fans arent used to.

Every club has experienced some prolonged sh*te times, some more than others but it does turn around.

Utd have a potential starting XI with a few WC/Euro winners in it, the team is good enough but isnt performing.


Chelsea are the perennial boom/bust club so we're used to it, it will eventually turn around as the biggest clubs have the ability and money to dig themselves out of these runs.

Whats strange for Chelsea is that we've adapted to "Sarribal" pretty easily, mainly because the players are good and also because theyre willing to work.

If the work ethic or motivation to play well for the manager goes, you've no hope and it happened to Chelsea under Mourinho a few years ago, I just dont see a positive outcome for Utd or Jose from the situation, as I said, this season is a write off as it stands, Pool and City are miles ahead and Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs have started well too, Utd can still easily finish top 4 but Utd fans clearly want more than a top 4 charge and finishing 2nd last year some 20 points off City means feck all.

Your Airbag

J. Marston wrote: »

From a Reddit thread;



Looking at Liverpool who were in a similar situation to us this weekend in that they were losing for most of the game. They registered 154 sprints to our 59. We are a pathetically passive side.

Klopp plays a high press. Players are sprinting towards the ball and opposition players from the first whistle so naturally they are covering more ground. Under Jose we are many times parking the bus from the first whistle, and thats me steeel-manning Jose's tactics.

ericzeking

Fred The Red wrote: »

You will only get the short term fix

Mourinho was the short term fix.

The club needs to hire a manager, a manager who aligns to the philosophy of the club (young players, quick players, attacking players, flair players, players with personality), give him a long term contract and commit to it, even if it means forsaking results for a year or two.


I actually like what I have read about Larry Whites managerial record.

He will 'get' United and he has the star quality to garner respect of the big egos.

People will say they haven't done it consistently but I can't get the possibility of Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Sanchez etc firing for United out of my head, it's some exhilerating thought and it's not going to happen with JM.

ericzeking

ericzeking wrote: »

Mourinho was the short term fix.

The club needs to hire a manager, a manager who aligns to the philosophy of the club (young players, quick players, attacking players, flair players, players with personality), give him a long term contract and commit to it, even if it means forsaking results for a year or two.


I actually like what I have read about Larry Whites managerial record.

He will 'get' United and he has the star quality to garner respect of the big egos.

People will say they haven't done it consistently but I can't get the possibility of Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Sanchez etc firing for United out of my head, it's some exhilerating thought and it's not going to happen with JM.

This is historical nonsense IMO.
The club has proven it no longer has a philosophy. Just because the fans perceive us having to play a certain way and conduct business in a certain way doesn't mean it's actually happening.

J. Marston

Shots fired...

https://twitter.com/SimonPeach/status/1046747134438068224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1046747134438068224&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fmourinho-presser-valencia-home.441925%2F

Your Airbag

J. Marston wrote: »

Shots fired...

https://twitter.com/SimonPeach/status/1046747134438068224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1046747134438068224&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fmourinho-presser-valencia-home.441925%2F

If this is not going out or your way to lose the dressing room or at least alienate most of it and cause a divide then its a hell of a good impression of it.

Someone in PR needs to step in and control this.

20 Times 20 Times

I have been thinking about this for last day or two and this is how I see this playing out. If Jose gets two results this weeks ( Valencia and Newcastle) then his job is safe and he will be given the full backing to do what ever needs to be done in Jan.

The result against Valencia would mean United have 6 points and would be enough to make it through to the-next round of champions league so that alone will be enough. If he doesn't get results against both teams ( BOTH home games ) then he is gone and player power has won , Either way Pogba will be gone in January given my two scenarios above.

bennyineire

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

We finished 2nd, imagine if we ran more?

Not this year ye won't though, be lucky to get top 4 at this stage

yourdeadwright

bennyineire wrote: »

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

We finished 2nd, imagine if we ran more?  :)

Not this year ye won't though, be lucky to get top 4 at this stage

Last year to me was almost a fake , Chelsea went bust and didn't bother from January on, Liverpool had champions league on there mind and from April the Prem form really suffered ,Spurs never played a home game all season and Arsenal where saying good bye to Wenger ,
The Prem was very odd ,

Duck Soup

No one dared cross Fergie because if they did (a) they'd get eaten alive and (b) Fergie wouldn't be out the door but they would. Does Mourinho have that sway/control and backing?

PropJoe10

Your Airbag wrote: »

If this is not going out or your way to lose the dressing room or at least alienate most of it and cause a divide then its a hell of a good impression of it.

Someone in PR needs to step in and control this.

He's most likely right, but I think the days of being able to say that sort of thing in the press to generate a reaction from your squad are gone. Slagging off players in the press these days only aggravates both players and agents, which isn't what you want.

Just seems that he's in full meltdown mode to me now, like he was in the last month or so at Chelsea. I don't ever remember Mourinho turning around a bad situation at any of his previous clubs - he's always a short term appointment.

Would be hard to know who United could get in at this stage of the season though. Caretaker til the summer and then go for Pochettino would seem to be the best option.

bangkok

J. Marston wrote: »

Shots fired...

https://twitter.com/SimonPeach/status/1046747134438068224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1046747134438068224&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fmourinho-presser-valencia-home.441925%2F

Meh, probably the same in most squads around the world

Duck Soup

Duck Soup wrote: »

No one dared cross Fergie because if they did (a) they'd get eaten alive and (b) Fergie wouldn't be out the door but they would. Does Mourinho have that sway/control and backing?

Not a chance. Those days are long gone too.

Duck Soup

PropJoe10 wrote: »

He's most likely right, but I think the days of being able to say that sort of thing in the press to generate a reaction from your squad are gone. Slagging off players in the press these days only aggravates both players and agents, which isn't what you want.

Just seems that he's in full meltdown mode to me now, like he was in the last month or so at Chelsea. I don't ever remember Mourinho turning around a bad situation at any of his previous clubs - he's always a short term appointment.

Would be hard to know who United could get in at this stage of the season though. Caretaker til the summer and then go for Pochettino would seem to be the best option.

At the risk of mischaracterising what you're saying, it sounds like Mourinho has one foot out the door and is taking a few parting shots. It's strange, because from Clough & Taylor onwards, man management has always been as important as tactics and scouting. At United in particular a generation of success was built on Fergie's ability to squeeze the best out of every player in a Man Utd shirt.

Seems strange than Mourinho has forgotten how to forge that siege mentality where it was us-against-the-world and the players would fight for each other to the last.

Liam O

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Last year to me was almost a fake , Chelsea went bust and didn't bother from January on, Liverpool had champions league on there mind and from April the Prem form really suffered ,Spurs never played a home game all season and Arsenal where saying good bye to Wenger ,
The Prem was very odd ,

Haha. That's a new one. United finishing above Liverpool was almost a fake. Weird that.

Your Airbag

20 Times 20 Times wrote: »

I have been thinking about this for last day or two and this is how I see this playing out. If Jose gets two results this weeks ( Valencia and Newcastle) then his job is safe and he will be given the full backing to do what ever needs to be done in Jan.

The result against Valencia would mean United have 6 points and would be enough to make it through to the-next round of champions league so that alone will be enough. If he doesn't get results against both teams ( BOTH home games ) then he is gone and player power has won , Either way Pogba will be gone in January given my two scenarios above.

It will be results and Jose's own poor tactics that cost him. Pogba will be here after he's gone. There is no way the club will ship both out. Pogba has not shown a history of going against managers before, fine at Juve and fine at the world cup, where Jose has that history. It will be one or the other and not both.

Duck Soup

Fred The Red wrote: »

Not a chance. Those days are long gone too.

The problem is that if the players know they can take the pish (in terms of performance), then they will. Though he's a much more restrained character, do you think any player at City thinks they're going to win in a power struggle with Pep?

Given the subs and team selection for West ham game I think we will be seeing the players he thinks care next game

Duck Soup

Duck Soup wrote: »

The problem is that if the players know they can take the pish (in terms of performance), then they will. Though he's a much more restrained character, do you think any player at City thinks they're going to win in a power struggle with Pep?

Nope, I suspect they would be benched straight away and nobody would question him on it and rightly so. However that comes with a precursor as I suspect he would need to justify it with results.
But from a pure manager to player point of view Pep would have no problem giving the hairy side of the hand to an under performing player.

PropJoe10

Duck Soup wrote: »

At the risk of mischaracterising what you're saying, it sounds like Mourinho has one foot out the door and is taking a few parting shots. It's strange, because from Clough & Taylor onwards, man management has always been as important as tactics and scouting. At United in particular a generation of success was built on Fergie's ability to squeeze the best out of every player in a Man Utd shirt.

Seems strange than Mourinho has forgotten how to forge that siege mentality where it was us-against-the-world and the players would fight for each other to the last.

Its very odd, and going by what Terry/Lampard always said about Mourinho, man management was always one of his strengths. Not sure what's happened to him the last few years but to me, he looks like a man that needs a break from management. He looks tired. His humour is totally gone and he's always looking to blame others. A year away from it might do him good - he's never really had any sort of break since the Porto days.

Lord TSC

Deleted User wrote: »

Given the subs and team selection for West ham game I think we will be seeing the players he thinks care next game

I'd actually like to see that, even if it meant playing kids really. Just go with the players he trusts, and leave the likes of Pogba behind if he feels Pogba won't give 100%.