Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

You bring up Ronaldo and Cantona in a discussion about Pogba. And then when a point doesn’t suit you , you say it’s an unfair comparison. You don’t address anything that actually challenges your view so sometimes a GIF can express more then I can say....

Im saying their personalities are the same in that they need to be massaged etc

De bruyne robben neymar even zlatan you have to massage the ego

Saying how many goals ronaldo scored is pointless when comparing to pogba.

Zeek12

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless we have numbers from a number of weeks you cant say either way but i doubt we were 20th every week or it would already be news so it looks bad from the players

We were 20th for the whole 2017/2018 season up to that point.
Just checking again it was actually in November last year. Adding the link below

Still that's about three months into a season. So its a pretty strong trend over a long period.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/510837

Typical of social media to throw out a meaningless lazy stat like this re: the West Ham game - and try to pretend it represents a new attitude from the players.

Total misrepresentation.

The trend is already there for some time, in our style and approach under this manager.

Trigger

Business Cat wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for giving Giggsy a chance?

Giggsy for midfield!

Liam McPoyle

astradave wrote: »

Giggsy for midfield!

At least he'd try unlike certain players. I'm not going to name names but let's just refer to him as Small Frogba.

Adamocovic

Drumpot wrote: »

You bring up Ronaldo and Cantona in a discussion about Pogba. And then when a point doesn’t suit you , you say it’s an unfair comparison. You don’t address anything that actually challenges your view so sometimes a GIF can express more then I can say....

To be fair he brought up how most players with big personas and characters require a different approach. Used Ronaldo and Cantona as examples of players who Fergie massaged or played to their egos, and resulted in the best of them coming out.

He's right to that degree. They got special treatment and were protected. Cantona kung fu kicked a guy and Fergie didn't even give him a telling off.

People started slating in saying Pogba is nowhere near their level. That wasn't the main point of the post. It was about their egos. Then Ronaldo's approach when José and he fell out was brought into it. Fair enough if you wanna say he acted differently to how Pogba has but then goalscoring record was brought in as the proof.

I don't think it's changing the argument to highlight their different positions and calibre in terms of performances, the main point was how to handle egos and get the best out of them, not saying they were the same quality player.

Also if we wanna look at stats, Pogba looks like he is mopping up under José this season from midfield.

8 games, 4 goals, 2 assists.

Drumpot

bangkok wrote: »

Im saying their personalities are the same in that they need to be massaged etc

De bruyne robben neymar even zlatan you have to massage the ego

Saying how many goals ronaldo scored is pointless when comparing to pogba.

I agree with the sentiment about Pogba having special needs as a player but I don’t think it excuses his under performance.

Ronaldo’s statistics showed that his form and performances were not affected by his relationship with Jose.

There is not any statistic for Pogba that you could come up with that suggests he’s been world class for united for much of his stay at the club. His French and united performances are chalk and cheese. By your logic Pogba is incapable of performing unless he has the right conditions. This doesn’t apply to Ronaldo in the same scenario.

And then there is hazzard. Who was able to at least win a league with Jose and play top class for a season or two in the league for Chelsea under gin. Pogba can’t even say that....

You keep saying Jose can’t work with big egos but he’s won trophies with big egos. That includes Zlatan who you mentioned. Jose can work with big players and big players can succeed under Jose. Once again the one player who Jose couldn’t get to play to his peak consistently was Pogba ...

So Pogba can’t work with Jose or saf. Ronaldo can. Pogba has never found any sort of consistent form with Jose. But zlatan and hazzard can.

Jose falling out with players doesn’t invalidate the fact that he was still able to get success and get performances out of them for seasons.

Your Airbag

Ah gifs........the last resort of someone with out sufficient points or cognitive ability to back up their point and debate.

Adamocovic

Adamocovic wrote: »

To be fair he brought up how most players with big personas and characters require a different approach. Used Ronaldo and Cantona as examples of players who Fergie massaged or played to their egos, and resulted in the best of them coming out.

He's right to that degree. They got special treatment and were protected. Cantona kung fu kicked a guy and Fergie didn't even give him a telling off.

People started slating in saying Pogba is nowhere near their level. That was the main point of the post. It was about their egos. Then Ronaldo's approach when José and he fell out was brought into it. Fair enough if you wanna say he acted differently to how Pogba has but then goalscoring record was brought in as the proof.

I don't think it's changing the argument to highlight their different positions and calibre in terms of performances, the main point was how to handle egos and get the best out of them, not saying they were the same quality player.

Also if we wanna look at stats, Pogba looks like he is mopping up under José this season from midfield.

8 games, 4 goals, 2 assists.

Yet shanchez has a higher expected goal or assist rate per 90 then him (and he is rubbish?), those penos are good for padding stats tbf

Zeek12

Zeek12 wrote: »

We were 20th for the whole 2017/2018 season up to that point.
Just checking again it was actually in November last year. Adding the link below

Still that's about three months into a season. So its a pretty strong trend over a long period.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/510837

Typical of social media to throw out a meaningless lazy stat like this re: the West Ham game - and try to pretend it represents a new attitude from the players.

Total misrepresentation.

The trend is already there for some time, in our style and approach under this manager.

Honestly i'd prefer to see the numbers from this season and end of last, I'm not asking you to get them just as as more useful comparison, like if the last game was a decline on the season, or below average the number of sprints it would back up the case but if they were similar it woulld not

BazBox

Seriously though, put Giggsy in a back 3

Trigger

BazBox

BazBox wrote: »

Seriously though, put Giggsy in a back 3

Bandana boy

irishman86 wrote: »

And my point is still valid, Liverpool are Arsenal mk 2

Wow its a bit early to be comparing this Liverpool team to the invincible's as impressive as their unbeaten start has been.

brinty

Your Airbag wrote:

Ah gifs........the last resort of someone with out sufficient points or cognitive ability to back up their point and debate.

Pot kettle and black sir....
People in glass houses???

No its just people don't want to keep engaging with you and Bangkok when you shift the goal posts as you please, never answer direct questions and get into circular arguments

You were asked by a poster yesterday not to engage any further with them yet you continued to do so. If you don't want to read certain posters you have options available to you.

If you don't like people posting gifs probably best not to mention it as people will do it deliberately to wind you up. You've said it more than once so people will now do it to annoy you

This is a forum,people will have different opinions to you,when you've reasonable discussion and debate people will interact with you. If you want to have vastly different opinions to the majority of the posters you've got to be ready to deal with it. I have different opinions to plenty of posters (Mitch and The Doc to name two) but I respect their opinions cos they're more than willing to have reasonable debate and support their points whilst listening to others.

Zeek12

Deleted User wrote: »

Honestly i'd prefer to see the numbers from this season and end of last, I'm not asking you to get them just as as more useful comparison, like if the last game was a decline on the season, or below average the number of sprints it would back up the case but if they were similar it woulld not

Fair enough.

I didn't manage to find anything more recent unfortunately.....but if I do I'll post it.

Still, its not like we're talking about an age ago.

So there is definitely history in terms of our running (or lack of) and ground covered under Jose.

Its not something that suddenly materialized against West Ham.

brinty

brinty wrote: »

Pot kettle and black sir....
People in glass houses???

No its just people don't want to keep engaging with you and Bangkok when you shift the goal posts as you please, never answer direct questions and get into circular arguments

You were asked by a poster yesterday not to engage any further with them yet you continued to do so. If you don't want to read certain posters you have options available to you.

If you don't like people posting gifs probably best not to mention it as people will do it deliberately to wind you up. You've said it more than once so people will now do it to annoy you

This is a forum,people will have different opinions to you,when you've reasonable discussion and debate people will interact with you. If you want to have vastly different opinions to the majority of the posters you've got to be ready to deal with it. I have different opinions to plenty of posters (Mitch and The Doc to name two) but I respect their opinions cos they're more than willing to have reasonable debate and support their points whilst listening to others.

Zeek12

Your Airbag wrote: »

Ah gifs........the last resort of someone with out sufficient points or cognitive ability to back up their point and debate.

If there have to be gifs, could folks at least consider some fresh ones??

Honestly, if I see that Banderas one once more.... :eek:

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Your Airbag

Zeek12 wrote: »

The trend here is unavoidable.

I can't think of a single other manager at the top level who has fallen out with so many big players:

Pogba
Hazard
Mikhitarian
Martial
Costa
Sergio Ramos
Casillas

Added to this there are others, who, even if he didn’t have a full scale falling out, he still demeaned them by criticizing them publicly:

Shaw
Pepe
Bailly
Joe Cole

And probably others too, but the list is just getting too long to remember them all......

Lets not forget what imo was his disgraceful treatment of Bastian Schweinsteiger. That was probably only topped by his treatment of Eva Carneiro.

His 3rd season at Madrid he had fallen out with senior players because he didn't like some of them making peace with the Barca players for the sake of the national team. His siege mentality under threat. Called it the worst season of his career.

Says his Chelsea players betrayed him in the last season of second stint. This is the guy after all that stuck his finger in Tito Vilanova's eye.

He has a history of this and some are claiming its either Pogba or the fairy tale he wasn't back is the reason for all this 3rd season drama.

No, the reason is we have a narcissistic man child managing the team and the sooner he's gone the better.

Lord TSC

Fred The Red wrote: »

Drumpot

Zeek12 wrote: »

If there have to be gifs, could folks at least consider some fresh ones??

Honestly, if I see that Banderas one once more.... :eek:

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

bangkok

brinty wrote: »

Pot kettle and black sir....
People in glass houses???

No its just people don't want to keep engaging with you and Bangkok when you shift the goal posts as you please, never answer direct questions and get into circular arguments

You were asked by a poster yesterday not to engage any further with them yet you continued to do so. If you don't want to read certain posters you have options available to you.

If you don't like people posting gifs probably best not to mention it as people will do it deliberately to wind you up. You've said it more than once so people will now do it to annoy you

This is a forum,people will have different opinions to you,when you've reasonable discussion and debate people will interact with you. If you want to have vastly different opinions to the majority of the posters you've got to be ready to deal with it. I have different opinions to plenty of posters (Mitch and The Doc to name two) but I respect their opinions cos they're more than willing to have reasonable debate and support their points whilst listening to others.

Shift goal posts my bollox. When i was talking about massaging egos the other post threw in the ronaldo stats. I said they were pointless.

Your Airbag

brinty wrote: »

Pot kettle and black sir....
People in glass houses???

No its just people don't want to keep engaging with you and Bangkok when you shift the goal posts as you please, never answer direct questions and get into circular arguments

You were asked by a poster yesterday not to engage any further with them yet you continued to do so. If you don't want to read certain posters you have options available to you.

If you don't like people posting gifs probably best not to mention it as people will do it deliberately to wind you up. You've said it more than once so people will now do it to annoy you

This is a forum,people will have different opinions to you,when you've reasonable discussion and debate people will interact with you. If you want to have vastly different opinions to the majority of the posters you've got to be ready to deal with it. I have different opinions to plenty of posters (Mitch and The Doc to name two) but I respect their opinions cos they're more than willing to have reasonable debate and support their points whilst listening to others.

Show me where i shifted the goal posts? and posters seem more than happy to engage with me.


Pure rubbish.

Zeek12

Your Airbag wrote: »

Lets not forget what imo was his disgraceful treatment of Bastian Schweinsteiger. That was probably only top by his treatment of Eva Carneiro.

Jeez, I'd even forgotten about the Carneiro saga

bangkok

Fred The Red wrote: »

Yet another silly pointless gif

Adamocovic

brinty wrote: »

No its just people don't want to keep engaging with you and Bangkok when you shift the goal posts as you please, never answer direct questions and get into circular arguments

Not quoting the rest as I agree with most about being accepting others opinion, don't know anything about the other thing and I am partial to a bit of a nice gif so I am.

But to be fair, Bangkok here explained that he was referring to the players egos, didn't say Cantona Ronaldo and Pogba were the same calibre. Just that they were all players considered to be some of the best in their position during their times and having ego's to manage.

Say what you want about the past but I don't see the "moving the goalposts" on that argument. Think everyone's just a little on edge.

Rossi IRL

Can we not just have gif's of Miss Upton

Your Airbag

Adamocovic wrote: »

Not quoting the rest as I agree with most about being accepting others opinion, don't know anything about the other thing and I am partial to a bit of a nice gif so I am.

But to be fair, Bangkok here explained that he was referring to the players egos, didn't say Cantona Ronaldo and Pogba were the same calibre. Just that they were all players considered to be some of the best during their times and having ego's to manage.

Say what you want about the past but I don't see the "moving the goalposts" on that argument. Think everyone's just a little on edge.

It isn't, thats the line they use on that poster all the time and in their own heads it equals a win. Thats and gifs are easier than actually having a clue on what your talking about.

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

Im saying their personalities are the same in that they need to be massaged etc

De bruyne robben neymar even zlatan you have to massage the ego

Saying how many goals ronaldo scored is pointless when comparing to pogba.

Not really, it goes to the point that even if Ronaldo and Jose hated each other Ronaldo was able to put that aside when he went on the field and it didn't stifle his output one little bit, he had some of his best seasons under Jose and was part of I believe the highest scoring team in la liga history under the ultea defensive doesn't like to attack Jose Mourinho.

Don't bring up a comparison before you think it through fully is probably what you could take from this.

Ronaldo is a true professional, he is a world class player. He got on with his job and didn't let anything off the field get in his way while leading his team to success.

Adamocovic

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Can we not just have gif's of Miss Upton

No. Upton just makes me think of Upton Park and then I get flashbacks of Wes Ham.

Trigger

Zeek12 wrote: »

If there have to be gifs, could folks at least consider some fresh ones??

Honestly, if I see that Banderas one once more.... :eek:

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

uncleoswald

Zeek12 wrote: »

So there is definitely history in terms of our running (or lack of) and ground covered under Jose.

Jose's got the ground covered indeed...

Your Airbag

StringerBell wrote: »

Not really, it goes to the point that even if Ronaldo and Jose hated each other Ronaldo was able to put that aside when he went on the field and it didn't stifle his output one little bit, he had some of his best seasons under Jose and was part of I believe the highest scoring team in la liga history under the ultea defensive doesn't like to attack Jose Mourinho.

Don't bring up a comparison before you think it through fully is probably what you could take from this.

Ronaldo is a true professional, he is a world class player. He got on with his job and didn't let anything off the field get in his way while leading his team to success.

Or Jose could have put his ego aside, like he could do here but no, he doesn't have a history of that. He'd rather fall out with everyone until the situation becomes toxic.

Saying that I fancy a win tonight :pac:

StringerBell

Your Airbag wrote: »

Ah gifs........the last resort of someone with out sufficient points or cognitive ability to back up their point and debate.

As oppsed to stellar commentary on a posting style when actual input to a discussion is beyond capability or desire perhaps?

brinty

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Can we not just have gif's of Miss Upton

I only post Kate Upton gifs that are NSFW... i'm not picking up a thread ban for it

StringerBell

Your Airbag wrote: »

Or Jose could have put his ego aside, like he could do here but no, he doesn't have a history of that. He'd rather fall out with everyone until the situation becomes toxic.

Saying that I fancy a win tonight :pac:

Deliberate obfuscation?

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Shift goal posts my bollox. When i was talking about massaging egos the other post threw in the ronaldo stats. I said they were pointless.

Bollox

You brought Ronaldo in to the discussion and it was pointed out to you clearly how Ronaldo can perform even for Jose and even if there was a perceived issue between said player and manager and or general issues with Jose and his player management skills or lack thereof.

You then proceeded to back out and move the goalposts stating it was an unfair comparison.

Big egos and big players typically come hand in hand.

Pogba hasn't done anything to prove he's in any way shape or form close to the calibre of player Ronaldo is and yet he seems to still have a massive ego regardless.

**** massaging his ego, he's done nothing to deserve a tug

Gif that one

Backstreet Moyes

Under 19 team looks like a special team which is some good news

Adamcp898

An old fashioned static image to please all.

Adamcp898

Adamcp898 wrote: »

An old fashioned static image to please all.

your gif is broken

jayo26

Nuts102 wrote: »

Under 19 team looks like a special team which is some good news

Good to hear that because they will be all in first team against Newcastle because the first team hasn't had a good ego massaging in a while.

Trigger

Fred The Red wrote: »

Bollox

You brought Ronaldo in to the discussion and it was pointed out to you clearly how Ronaldo can perform even for Jose and even if there was a perceived issue between said player and manager and or general issues with Jose and his player management skills or lack thereof.

You then proceeded to back out and move the goalposts stating it was an unfair comparison.

Big egos and big players typically come hand in hand.

Pogba hasn't done anything to prove he's in any way shape or form close to the calibre of player Ronaldo is and yet he seems to still have a massive ego regardless.

**** massaging his ego, he's done nothing to deserve a tug

Gif that one

bangkok

Fred The Red wrote: »

Bollox

You brought Ronaldo in to the discussion and it was pointed out to you clearly how Ronaldo can perform even for Jose and even if there was a perceived issue between said player and manager and or general issues with Jose and his player management skills or lack thereof.

You then proceeded to back out and move the goalposts stating it was an unfair comparison.

Big egos and big players typically come hand in hand.

Pogba hasn't done anything to prove he's in any way shape or form close to the calibre of player Ronaldo is and yet he seems to still have a massive ego regardless.

**** massaging his ego, he's done nothing to deserve a tug

Gif that one

"Ronaldo cantona and the likes" is what i said. You focused in on ronaldo and threw out pointless stats

Pogba is a big player whether you think so or not. Won multiple serie a titles, world cup, fifa world 11, even broke the world record transfer to sign him.

"**** massaging his ego" yep, surely get results that way. Fight with you best player is great man management

Liam McPoyle

astradave wrote: »

brinty

You know what really baffles me though ... Jose fell out with all these players over his almost 15 years in management.....

Take 26 years of Fergie and lets see who he's fallen out with
Strachan
Leighton
Schmeichel (he sacked him)
Ince
Beckham
Keane
Ruud
Rooney
Stam
and countless others

How could we forget the rock of bleeping gibraltar thing

Yet Ferguson is beloved of the majority of people

As a manager you've gotta be a ruthless coconut to succeed. Fergie had that in him, so does Jose

But to counter that lets look at all the former players who speak glowing of Ferguson or the Lampards, Terrys, Carvalho's Cech's etc who loved working with him. Look at Lukaku who left Chelsea under Jose as he wanted to play more. jose couldn't guarantee him time ahead of Drogba and Costa and went he with no hard feelings and when Jose wanted him at United he was delighted to rejoin him. Or Zlatan when he was at Inter and United.

We can all say how much of a coconut someone is but you need to balance it up too.

Adamcp898

Deleted User wrote: »

your gif is broken

Have you heard they've invented gifs with sound now!? :eek:

Can't wait to try them out......

brinty

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Have you heard they've invented gifs with sound now!? :eek:

Can't wait to try them out......

Agh are these those new crazed things called "the talkies"????

jayo26

brinty wrote: »

You know what really baffles me though ... Jose fell out with all these players over his almost 15 years in management.....

Take 26 years of Fergie and lets see who he's fallen out with
Strachan
Leighton
Schmeichel (he sacked him)
Ince
Beckham
Keane
Ruud
Rooney
and countless others

How could we forget the rock of bleeping gibraltar thing

Yet Ferguson is beloved of the majority of people

As a manager you've gotta be a ruthless coconut to succeed. Fergie had that in him, so does Jose

But to counter that lets look at all the former players who speak glowing of Ferguson or the Lampards, Terrys, Carvalho's Cech's etc who loved working with him. Look at Lukaku who left Chelsea under Jose as he wanted to play more. jose couldn't guarantee him time ahead of Drogba and Costa and went he with no hard feelings and when Jose wanted him at United he was delighted to rejoin him. Or Zlatan when he was at Inter and United.

We can all say how much of a coconut someone is but you need to balance it up too.

brinty

jayo26 wrote: »

Lord TSC

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1047155380852350976

brinty

Lord TSC wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1047155380852350976

He's scored 10 goals at youth/U23 level already this season i believe. Some talent. Went on the US tour this summer. Scores goals for fun.