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New Computer Science Course

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  • 09-08-2018 9:08am
    #1
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 9,002 ✭✭✭


    HI,
    I believe the government is creating a new Computer Science subject. I was wondering what qualifications would I need for this?

    Thanks


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    #2
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    HI,
    I believe the government is creating a new Computer Science subject. I was wondering what qualifications would I need for this?

    Thanks

    A recognised undergraduate degree and PME. Check specific requirements on TC website.


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    #3
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 9,002 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    A recognised undergraduate degree and PME. Check specific requirements on TC website.

    I suppose if I don't have a corresponding under graduate degree but I did a Master in Computer Science I'd be ok?


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    #4
    Postgrad10
    Registered Users Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭Postgrad10


    Not to be registered with the teaching council. I suppose if you had a level 8 degree in another teaching subject and a PME and the masters on computer science, a principal might ask you to teach it if you have the masters in comp science.


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    #5
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    UCD piloted a computer science teaching course similar to the upskill maths course last year. For current teachers only
    I put up the course content on a thread somewhere.
    It's pretty specific so I reckon you'd have to be aligned to those modules for the teaching council.... and even then they'd make you jump through hoops.
    Here it is here
    https://www.cs.ucd.ie/postgrad-programmes/professional-diploma-educational-studies-computational-thinking/


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    #6
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    I suppose if I don't have a corresponding under graduate degree but I did a Master in Computer Science I'd be ok?

    I'd imagine You still need to study history,sociology, psychology of education.
    Really it's a niche area at the moment so chances of employment are limited


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    #7
    man_no_plan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭man_no_plan


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    I'd imagine You still need to study history,sociology, psychology of education.
    Really it's a niche area at the moment so chances of employment are limited

    I think you would probably pick up work if you were willing to do the non CS stuff like ECDL etc also, most schools would have a lot of teachers doing bits and pieces in this area that could form the basis of a single teacher post.

    I have spoken to a few people about it but the CS people don't look on that as being their thing. Reality is that even in a big school you'd have max one class per senior cycle year and maybe a module in programming in TY. It would make s full hours job without the other.

    Theres a lot to be said still for teaching how to use a computer. Not every driver needs to know how to change the oil in their car.


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    #8
    trihead
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭trihead


    There has been some useful links for courses etc on the PDST CS twitter page which might be useful to look at / follow in future - https://twitter.com/PDSTcs


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    #9
    Notorious
    Registered Users Posts: 2,167 ✭✭✭Notorious


    I contacted the Dept of Ed & Skills and the Traching Council about courses last week. They won’t go on record with requirements yet, which is frustrating. I’m one year into a two year hDip BSc in Software Development, but they won’t say whether I’ll qualify to teach the subject. I’ve been told to wait until the requirements are released.


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    #10
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Notorious wrote: »
    I contacted the Dept of Ed & Skills and the Traching Council about courses last week. They won’t go on record with requirements yet, which is frustrating. I’m one year into a two year hDip BSc in Software Development, but they won’t say whether I’ll qualify to teach the subject. I’ve been told to wait until the requirements are released.

    Is that level 8 or 9? Have you got an undergraduate degree? I presume you don't have a teaching qualification yet?


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    #11
    Notorious
    Registered Users Posts: 2,167 ✭✭✭Notorious


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    Is that level 8 or 9? Have you got an undergraduate degree? I presume you don't have a teaching qualification yet?

    No, I’m a fully qualified teacher. It’s a level 8.


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    #12
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Notorious wrote: »
    No, I’m a fully qualified teacher. It’s a level 8.

    That's a different situation but one I'm familiar with. I too have a degree in IT but only registered for ICT/Computer Studies. I rang them last year when I heard about the new CS course to see about changing my certificate but they gave me a wishy washy tale and I left it. I am nearly sure that if I want to change my certificate, I will have to fork out €200 for assessment again which I'm not willing to do. They are a joke of an organisation.


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    #13
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    As I mentioned above this is the course that they are piloting. In effect this is the most 'kosher' in terms of what you would need. https://www.cs.ucd.ie/postgrad-programmes/professional-diploma-educational-studies-computational-thinking/

    If you could align any modules to these ones in someway then it might help, then again, they seem to be education specific so I don't know if that's possible.

    Really and truly I think it's any other regular subject to get you in to a school first and when they see you have a background in it, the school will put it on to your timetable. This seems to be the most painless way and cuts out the teaching council for the foreseeable future.

    If you go for a job with say Maths with Computer Science, I doubt too much that you'll be competing against people who have that course done (the first cohort won't be finishing until next year I think). Those teachers who are on the course are already in situ in their own schools.


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    #14
    incentsitive
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭incentsitive


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    That's a different situation but one I'm familiar with. I too have a degree in IT but only registered for ICT/Computer Studies. I rang them last year when I heard about the new CS course to see about changing my certificate but they gave me a wishy washy tale and I left it. I am nearly sure that if I want to change my certificate, I will have to fork out €200 for assessment again which I'm not willing to do. They are a joke of an organisation.

    Same as my experience with the TC. Years ago I wanted to see what my degree would allow me to teach as I was unemployed at the time and was going to go back to do a HDip. After the bull sh1tty nonsensical no answers discussions I had with them (me : "What does my degree allow me to teach" TC: "That would be an ecumenical matter"), I gave up and did something else instead.

    The TC are an absolutely useless shower. If they are not helping people who want to enter the profession to do so, there is no point now complaining about a shortage of teachers.


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    #15
    Notorious
    Registered Users Posts: 2,167 ✭✭✭Notorious


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    I am nearly sure that if I want to change my certificate, I will have to fork out €200 for assessment again which I'm not willing to do. They are a joke of an organisation.

    That’s ridiculous, but very typical of the teaching council.

    I could be completely wrong, but I think the DES are going to struggle to get Comp Sci teachers. Software development can be a very lucrative career, so I think there’ll be a lot of teachers who train in CA and leave the profession for the private sector.
    I can’t see too many CS students who graduate from third level and decide to go down the path of teaching.
    There’s also a potential (I say potential because it’s not confirmed) issue with the toughness of the LC course. I’ve spoken to third level lecturers who were involved in the consultation of the curriculum who are quite outspoken about the difficulty of the material. Robotics was one difficult aspect that was mentioned to me. Supposedly there were industry leaders involved in the curriculum consultation and their approach wasn’t as realistic as the approach of the educators.


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    #16
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Notorious wrote: »
    That’s ridiculous, but very typical of the teaching council.

    I could be completely wrong, but I think the DES are going to struggle to get Comp Sci teachers. Software development can be a very lucrative career, so I think there’ll be a lot of teachers who train in CA and leave the profession for the private sector.
    I can’t see too many CS students who graduate from third level and decide to go down the path of teaching.
    There’s also a potential (I say potential because it’s not confirmed) issue with the toughness of the LC course. I’ve spoken to third level lecturers who were involved in the consultation of the curriculum who are quite outspoken about the difficulty of the material. Robotics was one difficult aspect that was mentioned to me. Supposedly there were industry leaders involved in the curriculum consultation and their approach wasn’t as realistic as the approach of the educators.

    They definitely are going to struggle. Take for example my degree year, a great number of them are working abroad or have big houses and are very comfortable here so I can't see anyone giving that up for a few hours teaching and all that goes with it.

    I also agree with the difficulty of the course - I think the level is above most second level students unless you are into your programming from a young age - it does happen but not in the majority. When I initially looked at it, it put the fear of God into me some of the projects they were outlining and how I would do some of them. The content was fine I think for the most as I recognised a lot of the content - it's been a while since I did my degree.

    With relation to the Teaching Council, I only wanted them to acknowledge my qualification but to be honest, I would not like to end up teaching it. I'm happy to teach my other subject and have been successful with it so wouldn't like to take the risk of teaching a new subject to Leaving Certs who depend on this subject for their future. It should been introduced at Junior Cycle first so students can work on it from young and a fail at Junior Cycle will not really harm anyone.


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    #17
    man_no_plan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭man_no_plan


    IT Tallaght are doing a course to cater for this.

    https://springboardcourses.ie/details/6184

    Not sure about the TC but who is registered for everything they teach?


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    #18
    Notorious
    Registered Users Posts: 2,167 ✭✭✭Notorious


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    It should been introduced at Junior Cycle first so students can work on it from young and a fail at Junior Cycle will not really harm anyone.

    Agree with all that you said. I teach programming to PLC students at level 5 and 6, and looking at the LC curriculum I was worried at the amount I’d be confident in delivering.
    I think you make a great point here; with all the shake ups they’re making at Junior Cert level, why did they not think of introducing a CS course with coding at a lower level?
    Universities report a 70% drop out rate on some CS courses. Coding is definitely not for everyone, and I’d much rather discover that at Junior Cert level than during the Leaving Cert.


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    #19
    trihead
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭trihead


    There have done at Junior Cycle a few years ago - but schools are free to choose their own short courses - it is getting more popular now I think

    Coding course

    https://curriculumonline.ie/getmedia/cc254b82-1114-496e-bc4a-11f5b14a557f/NCCA-JC-Short-Course-Coding.pdf

    Digital Media Literacy - not coding but useful I imagine

    https://curriculumonline.ie/getmedia/71b6b946-971b-4003-8bfa-028932cc4daa/NCCA-JC-Short-Course-DML.pdf


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