President Michael D Higgins’ €3,000 a night hotel stays

ohnonotgmail

Hitman3000 wrote: »

There was no allegation in the article. Maybe read it. Rooms cost up to 3k a night. Craughwell has called for the office of President to be subject to FOI. I fully agree with him as a taxpayer whose money is being used to massage Higgins ego.

for a non-allegation you seem to have spent a lot of time talking about it in this thread. I think this is the first time you have even mentioned FOI.

Hitman3000

BailMeOut wrote:

This stupid articles in this rag is just click bait.

You and others are at great lengths to also ignore or deflect from the lack of FOI regarding the office of President. Why do you think the taxpayer should be clueless as to how our money is spent?

Hitman3000

ohnonotgmail wrote:

for a non-allegation you seem to have spent a lot of time talking about it in this thread. I think this is the first time you have even mentioned FOI.

Have you read the article, a simple yes or no will suffice instead of a personal jibe?

seamus

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

Similarly, you seem quite sure than only a €3,000-per-night suite could have provided the security and prestige that the president requires.

No, I think you'll find I never said anything even remotely like that.

I don't claim the breadth of knowledge on these matters that you do.

I am questioning the entire purpose and cost of the president's trip to Switzerland, undertaken so that he could deliver a keynote address to a conference criticizing globalization and capitalism. Of what benefit was this undertaking to the Irish people? Why should the taxpayer be forking out lots of money so that Higgins can jet around the world airing socialist views that I'm fairly certain the majority of the population do not endorse?

If you don't like it, vote for someone else. Simple.

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Whatever the cost we can be fairly sure he didn't pay it .

A man on a business trip not paying his own expenses? That's unheard of!

Franz Von Peppercorn

There’s probably a lot you could get Micky D on, and I don’t like the man. Although he is ok as a president.

This is stupid though.

Of course presidents stay in top hotels and suites within those hotels.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

You wouldnt get that from reading this thread. It is all about the €3000 a night hotel suite. Craughwell is a bitter little man who is best ignored. I'm disappointed the independent ran the article. If they really wanted to write an article about the president's office being exempt from FOI they should have done just that, not sink to the level of the Daily Mail.

The subtitle of the article is "Office of President is exempt from Freedom of Information legislation." The entire body of the article is about efforts by Craughwell and the Irish Independent to obtain information about costs incurred due to the president's visit to Geneva.

Higgins himself will not respond to Craughwell's requests on social media.

The Office of the President did not respond to the Independent's questions for more than four weeks, and then made only a generic statement with no details about expenses.

The Department of Foreign Affairs also refused to respond.

The article concludes:

The Office of the President is exempt from Freedom of Information legislation despite receiving more than €30m from taxpayers over the past seven years.

Government departments are also prevented from releasing details of money they spend on the President's Office. Presidential candidates Pádraig Ó Céidigh and Gavin Duffy have said the office should be covered by the legislation.

The real story here is about the opacity and lack of accountability from multiple government departments when it comes to releasing details about the president's expenses. If the taxpayer is expected to pump millions annually into the Office of the President, surely the public deserve greater transparency?

AudreyHepburn

He’s the President - do people really expect him to stay in squalor?

Why is it that when someone does well for themselves or can afford the finer things in the country that people assume there must be dodgy dealings afoot?

Michael D is the leader of our country and a fine leader at that. He deserves to and is entitled to be treated with the highest regard.

Don’t any of you complainers try to tell me that you wouldn’t stay in such luxury if you could afford it.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

The whole point of the article is to argue that it shouldn't be exempt.

Why should Higgins's office not be accountable for the taxpayers' money it spends?

Of course Higgins wasn't spending personal funds. This is the same man who used the government jet to fly from Dublin to Kerry to attend a concert, at a cost to the taxpayer of over €11,000. He didn't pay out of his own pocket for that little jaunt either.

How do people work out this cost? Is it the fuel? Because everything else with the private jet costs the same anyway.

Turnipman

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

He’s the President - do people really expect him to stay in squalor?

In your monochrome view of the world is there really no middle ground between luxury and squalor?

BorneTobyWilde

I can think of far worse uses of money that the President staying in the Presidential Suite.

ohnonotgmail

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

The subtitle of the article is "Office of President is exempt from Freedom of Information legislation." The entire body of the article is about efforts by Craughwell and the Irish Independent to obtain information about costs incurred due to the president's visit to Geneva.

Higgins himself will not respond to Craughwell's requests on social media.

The Office of the President did not respond to the Independent's questions for more than four weeks, and then made only a generic statement with no details about expenses.

The Department of Foreign Affairs also refused to respond.

The article concludes:



The real story here is about the opacity and lack of accountability from multiple government departments when it comes to releasing details about the president's expenses. If the taxpayer is expected to pump millions annually into the Office of the President, surely the public deserve greater transparency?

well then that is the article they should have written instead of the sub-Daily Mail ****e they did write.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You and others are at great lengths to also ignore or deflect from the lack of FOI regarding the office of President. Why do you think the taxpayer should be clueless as to how our money is spent?

Maybe, but nothing to do with Micky D specifically.

seamus

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

Higgins himself will not respond to Craughwell's requests on social media.

It is beneath the dignity of the President to comment directly on such matters over Twitter. That's exactly why Craughwell is not Presidential material.

The Office of the President did not respond to the Independent's questions for more than four weeks, and then made only a generic statement with no details about expenses.

The Department of Foreign Affairs also refused to respond.

They don't have to. So why is it a problem that they didn't?

The real story here is about the opacity and lack of accountability from multiple government departments when it comes to releasing details about the president's expenses. If the taxpayer is expected to pump millions annually into the Office of the President, surely the public deserve greater transparency?

Sure. The President doesn't make the law though. Why is this whole thing directed at Higgins and not at Simon Coveney, who has competence in this area?

Maybe it's because it's not about FOI at all? Maybe it's about Craughwell's tantrum?

ohnonotgmail

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Have you read the article, a simple yes or no will suffice instead of a personal jibe?

It was an observation not a jibe. You claim the article is about FOI yet that is not what you posted about.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Turnipman wrote: »

In your monochrome view of the world is there really no middle ground between luxury and squalor?

A president probably isn’t going to stay in the mid ranked room 615, executive suite with free coffee and a larger king sized bed. Breakfast not included.

ohnonotgmail

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

Higgins himself will not respond to Craughwell's requests on social media.

We should be grateful that we have a president that does not demean the office by conducting it's business through twitter or instagram.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Why is it that when someone does well for themselves or can afford the finer things in the country that people assume there must be dodgy dealings afoot?

He's not affording anything. He's taking advantage of his position to jet around attending non-essential conferences, concerts, etc., staying in luxury hotels, and heaping expenses upon the taxpayer.

E.g., flying from Dublin to Kerry on the government Learjet at a cost of over €11,000. Why is that necessary? So he can save a few hours in the car?

Turnipman

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

A president probably isn’t going to stay in the mid ranked room 615, executive suite with free coffee and a larger king sized bed. Breakfast not included.

So nothing but the absolute best is appropriate for lifelong socialist Pres. Stumpy!

Because he's worth it! :rolleyes:

Spanish Eyes

It is ALL about the FOI exemption, nothing else. I'd guess there is quite a struggle going on about this, but it will require a change to FOI legislation to remove the exemption. Hmmm who will bring forward that Bill in the Dail?

Taxpayers deserve better than a blanket NO Comment, Exempt!

Whether you like Craughwell or not, he has raised an important issue, that might just grow legs in the Silly Season!

Franz Von Peppercorn

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

He's not affording anything. He's taking advantage of his position to jet around attending non-essential conferences, concerts, etc., staying in luxury hotels, and heaping expenses upon the taxpayer.

E.g., flying from Dublin to Kerry on the government Learjet at a cost of over €11,000. Why is that necessary? So he can save a few hours in the car?

How did you cost that?

Turnipman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

We should be grateful that we have a president that does not demean the office by conducting it's business through twitter or instagram.

Instead, he chose to demean the Office by slobbering all over Fidel Castro's corpse.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

We should be grateful that we have a president that does not demean the office by conducting it's business through twitter or instagram.

Er ... @presidentirl

ohnonotgmail

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

It is ALL about the FOI exemption, nothing else. I'd guess there is quite a struggle going on about this, but it will require a change to FOI legislation to remove the exemption. Hmmm who will bring forward that Bill in the Dail?

Taxpayers deserve better than a blanket NO Comment, Exempt!

Whether you like Craughwell or not, he has raised an important issue, that might just grow legs in the Silly Season!

If he wanted to raise the issue he went about it arseways. Which is not in the least surprising given how much of an idiot he is.

AudreyHepburn

Turnipman wrote: »

In your monochrome view of the world is there really no middle ground between luxury and squalor?

Of course there is but I fail to see why the head of state should stay in a 2 or 3 star mediocre hotel just because staying in anything better might make some folks jealous that they can’t afford to do the same (which is what I think the whining is really all about).

Turnipman

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

How did you cost that?

The costings were provided by the Army Air Corps.

ohnonotgmail

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

Er ... @presidentirl

Does he conduct his business through it? No he doesn't.

Fann Linn

'Because I'm worth it'.

DickSwiveller Returns

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course there is but I fail to see why the head of state should stay in a 2 or 3 star mediocre hotel just because staying in anything better might make some folks jealous that they can’t afford to do the same (which is what I think the whining is really all about).

Why not set an example?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Turnipman wrote: »

So nothing but the absolute best is appropriate for lifelong socialist Pres. Stumpy!

Because he's worth it! :rolleyes:

The same with any president.

I’m be surprised if the whole floor isn’t booked out in fact. Security etc.

Turnipman

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course there is but I fail to see why the head of state should stay in a 2 or 3 star mediocre hotel just because staying in anything better might make some folks jealous that they can’t afford to do the same (which is what I think the whining is really all about).

In your monochrome view of the world is there really no middle ground between a 2 or 3 star budget hotel and a high-end five star hotel luxury suite?

AudreyHepburn

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

He's not affording anything. He's taking advantage of his position to jet around attending non-essential conferences, concerts, etc., staying in luxury hotels, and heaping expenses upon the taxpayer.

E.g., flying from Dublin to Kerry on the government Learjet at a cost of over €11,000. Why is that necessary? So he can save a few hours in the car?

He’s the president - he’s doing nothing any other head of state wouldn’t do.

The begrudgry in this country makes me sick sometimes. I hate this attitude that because I’m struggling no one else is allowed nice things.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Turnipman wrote: »

The costings were provided by the Army Air Corps.

How did they cost it? Are pilots paid extra for flights? Is that just fuel costs?

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

How did you cost that?

Figures from the Department of Public Expenditure quoted in the media. Information and costs about the use of the government jet are public knowledge.

Turnipman

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

How did they cost it? Are pilots paid extra for flights? Is that just fuel costs?

How about doing your own research instead of asking witless questions?

Grayson

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

He’s the President - do people really expect him to stay in squalor?

Why is it that when someone does well for themselves or can afford the finer things in the country that people assume there must be dodgy dealings afoot?

Michael D is the leader of our country and a fine leader at that. He deserves to and is entitled to be treated with the highest regard.

Don’t any of you complainers try to tell me that you wouldn’t stay in such luxury if you could afford it.

I think people here expect him to bunk up in a hostel or holiday inn.

Plus all the arrangements for this were made by the dept of foreign affairs. So Higgins did absolutely nothing wrong.

AllForIt

Hitman3000 wrote: »

It's well over a months wages for a lot of people. Or if you want to be frivolous a week in the Sun for a family of 4 including spending money.

Well you could look at it like that or you could look at it like this

3,000 * 365 days of the year = €1,095000

That's just over 1 mil. I'm sure there isn't one council that would get too excited about receiving 1 extra mil a year towards housing.

BailMeOut

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You and others are at great lengths to also ignore or deflect from the lack of FOI regarding the office of President. Why do you think the taxpayer should be clueless as to how our money is spent?

how did you come to that conclusion? The indo article is not journalism, it is all innuendo and speculation. A real journalist would never write something like this and you are falling for it.

This same newspaper wrote a half decent article recently on how much the Office of the President costs over seven years which is EUR30m for 7 years. By anyone's standards that is cheap for what we get.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-how-much-the-office-of-the-president-costs-over-seven-years-36785078.html

Franz Von Peppercorn

Turnipman wrote: »

How about doing your own research instead of asking witless questions?

I’m doubting the statistics. Research isn’t just a google.

Anyway, so what. The jet is there for a reason. Imagine the populist backlash if it were never used. Paying pilots for nothing. Depreciation for nothing.

Turnipman

BailMeOut wrote: »

By anyone's standards that is cheap for what we get.

I'm not exactly sure what unit of measurement you use to assess standards, but I suspect that they're probably the same ones that Louis XIV used for extending the Palace of Versailles.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

He’s the president - he’s doing nothing any other head of state wouldn’t do.

"He's the president" doesn't excuse this wanton waste of taxpayers' money. You may think its defensible to spend €11k of taxpayers money transporting Higgins from Dublin to Kerry in a Learjet, when it's a mere three and a half hour drive for ordinary mortals. Many would not agree with you, though. €11k is roughly what someone on JSA gets over an entire year.

I hate this attitude that because I’m struggling no one else is allowed nice things.

I'm happy to say that people should be allowed nice things, if they pay for them themselves. If Higgins wants to jet down to Kerry, or stay in luxury hotels in Geneva so that he can peddle his socialist rhetoric at a lefty conference, let him pay for these kinds of jaunts out of his own pocket.

suicide_circus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the same forces that led to a crash in 2008 that resulted in the country borrowing 10's of billions of euros? Swings and roundabouts.

the same forces that have got the number of people in the world living in extreme poverty down to about 10% from about 90% 150 years ago?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Turnipman wrote: »

In your monochrome view of the world is there really no middle ground between a 2 or 3 star budget hotel and a high-end five star hotel luxury suite?

What’s the middle ground there? A 4 star hotel?

God almighty. I bet our presidency is one of the cheapest, relative to Gdp, in the world.

I also feel that half the begrudgers would be happy with this expenditure if somebody else were president

RobertKK

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course there is but I fail to see why the head of state should stay in a 2 or 3 star mediocre hotel just because staying in anything better might make some folks jealous that they can’t afford to do the same (which is what I think the whining is really all about).

You can get rooms in the same 5 star hotel for less than €500. It is hardly squalor.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

"He's the president" doesn't excuse this wanton waste of taxpayers' money. You may think its defensible to spend €11k of taxpayers money transporting Higgins from Dublin to Kerry in a Learjet, when it's a mere three and a half hour drive for ordinary mortals. Many would not agree with you, though. €11k is roughly what someone on JSA gets over an entire year.



I'm happy to say that people should be allowed nice things, if they pay for them themselves. If Higgins wants to jet down to Kerry, or stay in luxury hotels in Geneva so that he can peddle his socialist rhetoric at a lefty conference, let him pay for these kinds of jaunts out of his own pocket.

Dont be stupid. If he’s invited as the president we pay for it.

Same with any country. Trump gets ferried around the US in government jets and helicopters.

ohnonotgmail

suicide_circus wrote: »

the same forces that have got the number of people in the world living in extreme poverty down to about 10% from about 90% 150 years ago?

like i said, swings and roundabouts.

BailMeOut

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

Yes. Almost a million waiting for medical procedures (Irish Times).

what has this got to do with waiting lists? There is an assumption by many that money moved from one place to another will fix problems in Ireland. Money has nothing to do with waiting lists. We have one of the most well funded health systems in the world however the money pumped in is badly managed. If we got rid of the presidency and gave 100% of the savings (EUR 30m over 7 years) to the HSE nothing would change other than we flush another EUR30m away.

Franz Von Peppercorn

RobertKK wrote: »

You can get rooms in the same 5 star hotel for less than €500. It is hardly squalor.

The president of any country isn’t going to stay in room 212, floor two, breakfast not included. Beside the fire hydrant.

RobertKK

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

What’s the middle ground there? A 4 star hotel?

God almighty. I bet our presidency is one of the cheapest, relative to Gdp, in the world.

I also feel that half the begrudgers would be happy with this expenditure if somebody else were president

I seriously doubt it.

Taytoland

Just what would Higgins be discussing on these business trips?

BailMeOut

Turnipman wrote: »

I'm not exactly sure what unit of measurement you use to assess standards, but I suspect that they're probably the same ones that Louis XIV used for extending the Palace of Versailles.

Louis XIV would be spending billions in today's money. The two are not even in the same ball park!!!