President Michael D Higgins’ €3,000 a night hotel stays

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

seamus wrote: »

I'm pointing out the absurdity of people claiming that he could have stayed in a cheaper room when they have absolutely no idea what room he stayed in, what was paid for it, nor who paid for it.

We would have a much better idea if Higgins, his office, or the Department of Foreign Affairs would provide the information that has been repeatedly requested of them.

They shouldn't be allowed to spend taxpayers' money on private jet trips and luxury hotel suites, and then stay mum about the details when asked. That's fundamentally non-democratic.

BorneTobyWilde

Some rooms are 40k a night, I think he done okay at 3k.

Grayson

RobertKK wrote: »

The hotel is geared up for that:

http://www.beau-rivage.ch/en/events-organisation/meeting-spaces-banqueting-rooms/

They're reception and banqueting rooms. Like the kind of crap you'd book for weddings. I'd imagine they cost more than the suit to book. He just needs a separate meeting room, not a fecking function room.

Grayson

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

We would have a much better idea if Higgins, his office, or the Department of Foreign Affairs would provide the information that has been repeatedly requested of them.

They shouldn't be allowed to spend taxpayers' money on private jet trips and luxury hotel suites, and then stay mum about the details when asked. That's fundamentally non-democratic.

I can't believe you rereged for this.

pumpkin4life

I have no respect whatsoever for Michael D Higgins.

A socialist, leftist nut who lives off the tax payer and never worked a day in his life while espousing socialist, pro E.U, pro mass migration, pro mass murdering dictatorship nonsense.

If he was honest about it, you could at least respect him for that, if he actually applied his own values to his own life, but he gets to rattle this shìt off with no personal, financial or social consequences as a result. 250 grand a year? 3 grand hotels? Glorious comrade!

People also seem to forget that he was massively sympathetic to other Communist regimes (Nicaragua, Cuba etc), commemorated statues to Irish communists like Jim Gralton and during his time lecturing at NUIG had no problem with lecturing (as part of Old Labour) and supporting the idea of a world revolution in communism, and a communist system within Ireland.

Didn't turn out so well in other countries, though I hear Venezuela is booming these days.

I hope he gets voted out in the next election, though it won't happen.

He's what Nassim Taleb would call an IYI: Intellectual Yet Idiot

https://medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577

MonkeyTennis

Hes some boy for managing to never work a day in his life AND lecture in NUIG. At least give him that.

pumpkin4life

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

Hes some boy for managing to never work a day in his life AND lecture in NUIG. At least give him that.

No one needs left wing marxist sociology lecturers. It's not a proper job, it's a sponger job.

Edgware

Berserker wrote: »

Don't have much time for Michael D. but this is a non-story. Think €3K is on the cheaper side for high class accommodation in Switzerland to be honest.

Have a look at the tax you pay this week (if you're working) and tell us if Higgins deserves a 3000 a night room

seamus

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

We would have a much better idea if Higgins, his office, or the Department of Foreign Affairs would provide the information that has been repeatedly requested of them.

Sure, but that's a different issue. Higgins himself has never been asked, and even if he was he probably wouldn't know.

DFA doesn't have to respond with this information unless it chooses to.

In any case that doesn't escape the fact that you and others are pillorying Higgins personally over made-up figures that you believe he charged to the Irish state.

The only conclusion is that you have an axe to grind about Higgins, since criticising a person about made-up figures just makes someone look like an unreasonable loon.

intellectual dosser

pumpkin4life wrote: »

I have no respect whatsoever for Michael D Higgins.

A socialist, leftist nut who lives off the tax payer and never worked a day in his life while espousing socialist, pro E.U, pro mass migration, pro mass murdering dictatorship nonsense.

If he was honest about it, you could at least respect him for that, if he actually applied his own values to his own life, but he gets to rattle this shìt off with no personal, financial or social consequences as a result. 250 grand a year? 3 grand hotels? Glorious comrade!

People also seem to forget that he was massively sympathetic to other Communist regimes (Nicaragua, Cuba etc), commemorated statues to Irish communists like Jim Gralton and during his time lecturing at NUIG had no problem with lecturing (as part of Old Labour) and supporting the idea of a world revolution in communism, and a communist system within Ireland.

Didn't turn out so well in other countries, though I hear Venezuela is booming these days.  

I hope he gets voted out in the next election, though it won't happen.

He's what Nassim Taleb would call an IYI: Intellectual Yet Idiot

https://medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577

This. This is what I was looking for the day I created my username.

I just cant....Thank You friend.

AudreyHepburn

Anyone with half a brain knows that article is clickbait and nothing more designed to cause a fuss.

None of us know what was paid or by whom and blaming Mickey D for things beyond his control is just silly.

Hitman3000

AudreyHepburn wrote:

€11k split between all the taxpayers in the country is nothing.

What are you talking about?

Keepaneye

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Anyone with half a brain knows that article is clickbait and nothing more designed to cause a fuss.

None of us know what was paid or by whom and blaming Mickey D for things beyond his control is just silly.

Anyone with half a brain would be able to come up with a comprehensive excuse for

A. Lying about running Once for president. A policy many of us voters admired and probably voted for him on.

B. Eulogising a dictator.

But sure isn't he grand....

dirtyden

seamus wrote: »

It makes a change from being accused of being a blueshirt I suppose.

I've already explained this. I'm pointing out the absurdity of people claiming that he could have stayed in a cheaper room when they have absolutely no idea what room he stayed in, what was paid for it, nor who paid for it.

There is a cohort of people who would claim that a double room in a 2-star is going over the top when he could have spent less.

Step 1: Prove that the amount spent was unreasonable.

As yet, nobody has done that.

You have no information on which to base that claim.
You have no information on which to base that claim.

It seems pretty clear, given that there is zero evidence that any money has been inappropriately spent anywhere by anyone, that this is just a vehicle for a few to take the chance to have a whinge about Higgins because they dislike him. There is nothing in this. Absolutely zero.

Prove your case and I'll join you.

Obviously we have no information. The law forbids us having that information currently.

In your opinion what service to the country is Higgins providing by giving a keynote speech at an anti capitalist convention? In my opinion Higgins is using his position to further his own politics, as with his trip to Cuba.

I have no information, but this is a discussion board not a court of law. I am giving my opinion on Higgins bevaviour, which I believe not to be appropriate to the office of the president.

You suggested what he was doing in Geneva was akin to a business trip. Where is your case to support this.

ohnonotgmail

dirtyden wrote: »

Obviously we have no information. The law forbids us having that information currently.

In your opinion what service to the country is Higgins providing by giving a keynote speech at an anti capitalist convention? In my opinion Higgins is using his position to further his own politics, as with his trip to Cuba.

I have no information, but this is a discussion board not a court of law. I am giving my opinion on Higgins bevaviour, which I believe not to be appropriate to the office of the president.

You suggested what he was doing in Geneva was akin to a business trip. Where is your case to support this.

how can you have an opinion on his behaviour when you dont know what he has done?

Turnipman

Deleted User wrote: »

People blaming the Department of Foreign Affairs for booking it are of course indicating a much greater problem across the civil and public service - the huge number of senior civil servants who completely unnecessarily take expensive flights, stay in expensive hotels and dine in expensive restaurants while so many fundamental problems remain in our society. There is no need for that waste of our taxes. That is the most important point. And no excuses for it either. Such waste is a blatant two-fingers to taxpayers: let them eat cake.

If we had any sort of investigative journalists, there's a huge story there in Department expenses. But no ordinary journalist/sycophant would be willing to damage their "government sources" by taking it on. Such is the reality of our "free press".

No there isn't!

This issue has regularly been expertly researched by journalist Ken Foxe over the past decade.

Ken has availed of the FoI legislation very well to trawl through the travel and sub expenditure of numerous Government Departments and Offices. I would love to see what he would do with both the current and the previous President's travel and sub expenditure if only he could gain access to them!


Have a look! http://www.kenfoxe.com or https://twitter.com/kenfoxe

dirtyden

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how can you have an opinion on his behaviour when you dont know what he has done?

I know he went to Switzerland to an anti capitalist convention. I am not sure what you are getting at here? What do you know, that you know I don’t know I know.

ohnonotgmail

dirtyden wrote: »

I know he went to Switzerland to an anti capitalist convention. I am not sure what you are getting at here? What do you know, that you know I don’t know I know.

you said you have no information. All anybody knows is that he went to switzerland.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

seamus wrote: »

In any case that doesn't escape the fact that you and others are pillorying Higgins personally over made-up figures that you believe he charged to the Irish state.

The figures for Higgins's government jet usage are on record, and thus not "made-up." Regardless of the precise cost of his hotel room in Switzerland, it's clear that Higgins is more than happy to exploit the Irish taxpayer whenever he can get away with it, such as his Learjet flights from Dublin to Kerry.

It's that attitude that I'm objecting to more than anything else. If Higgins had any respect for the workers of Ireland, per his socialist shtick, he wouldn't be displaying such blatant disregard for the money the state takes out of their wages. He should be arguing against state displays of opulence rather than becoming the living embodiment of them. But by conspicuously living the high life at the taxpayer's expense, he's proved that he's nothing more than a champagne socialist who profits personally off the very forces (capitalism, globalization) that he flies around the world criticizing.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Does he need to be travelling abroad so often?

The only time I hear about the fella is when he's off visiting someplace..

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Does he need to be travelling abroad so often?

The only time I hear about the fella is when he's off visiting someplace..

You surely don't expect him to sit around in his 95-room mansion in the Phoenix Park when he could be racking up €28k in hotel bills for a 24-day holiday in Australia.

At least Michael D can say that he spent 14 years of his life living like a EuroMillions winner.

Hitman3000

Luka Broad Bassist wrote:

At least Michael D can say that he spent 14 years of his life living like a EuroMillions winner.

He didn't even buy the ticket.....

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Hitman3000 wrote: »

He didn't even buy the ticket.....

We are the ticket.

uck51js9zml2yt

He didn't choose to stay there. It's the decision of the department.
It may have been the cheapest/ only room available for the trip.
He actually has no say in the matter.

It's a non story really but it's bad optics and that's what's important in the battle for the White House!

DickSwiveller Returns

Why are the public paying for this clown to go to some Labour meeting anyway? Is this an important function of the President?

Hitman3000

Desiree Loud Songbird wrote:

It's a non story really but it's bad optics and that's what's important in the battle for the White House!

Did you read the article or just jump in with a stupid comment? Caughwell is not running for the Aras, the body of the article is about the lack of transparency in the spend of the office of the president.

James Brown

RobertKK wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ras-silence-on-claims-higgins-stayed-in-3000anight-hotel-37198861.html

I know some people worship the ground the man walks on and mistakenly thinks he does a good job representing us as a nation.
But as a nation with a homeless problem, waiting lists to have health conditions treated now at the 1 million mark and many other issues that need dealing with, it looks like our President and the Department of Foreign Affairs have lost the run of themselves when they waste so much money on luxury hotels and this carry on doesn’t represent us a nation.
It is nothing more than abuse of the system for personal gain. There is no need for taxpayers money to be wasted like this. It shows if one has some power or status in society it is there to be abused. Time for change...

He stayed in a hotel where the rooms can cost up to 3000 a night...
The cur

Instead, the President's Office said: "Foreign travel by the President is made with the approval of the Government. Arrangements for the President's travel and accommodation are made by the Department of Foreign Affairs and the host country."

He should have stayed in a hostel the blaggard.

Turnipman

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Does he need to be travelling abroad so often?

The only time I hear about the fella is when he's off visiting someplace..

His permanently simpering missus (who travels everywhere with him to keep an eye on him) is addicted to duty free cigars.

Timberrrrrrrr

Hitman3000 wrote: »

What maybe 10% and the taxpayer paying the rest?

Is he not a taxpayer himself?

Has it been established yet that the Irish taxpayer paid for this?

awec

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Does he need to be travelling abroad so often?

The only time I hear about the fella is when he's off visiting someplace..

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

You surely don't expect him to sit around in his 95-room mansion in the Phoenix Park when he could be racking up €28k in hotel bills for a 24-day holiday in Australia.

At least Michael D can say that he spent 14 years of his life living like a EuroMillions winner.

You two realise that representing Ireland abroad is one of the main responsibilities of the president, right?


Having a go at the president for travelling is like having a go at a Guard for catching criminals.

Timberrrrrrrr

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

"He's the president" doesn't excuse this wanton waste of taxpayers' money. You may think its defensible to spend €11k of taxpayers money transporting Higgins from Dublin to Kerry in a Learjet, when it's a mere three and a half hour drive for ordinary mortals. Many would not agree with you, though. €11k is roughly what someone on JSA gets over an entire year.



I'm happy to say that people should be allowed nice things, if they pay for them themselves. If Higgins wants to jet down to Kerry, or stay in luxury hotels in Geneva so that he can peddle his socialist rhetoric at a lefty conference, let him pay for these kinds of jaunts out of his own pocket.

Jockeys (bear with me) often take a helicopter from one meeting to another because the time between the 2 meetings does not afford them the time to drive/be driven. Did Higgins have an earlier enagement that meant driving/being driven was not an option?

seamus

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

The figures for Higgins's government jet usage are on record, and thus not "made-up." Regardless of the precise cost of his hotel room in Switzerland, it's clear that Higgins is more than happy to exploit the Irish taxpayer whenever he can get away with it, such as his Learjet flights from Dublin to Kerry.

It's that attitude that I'm objecting to more than anything else. If Higgins had any respect for the workers of Ireland, per his socialist shtick, he wouldn't be displaying such blatant disregard for the money the state takes out of their wages. He should be arguing against state displays of opulence rather than becoming the living embodiment of them. But by conspicuously living the high life at the taxpayer's expense, he's proved that he's nothing more than a champagne socialist who profits personally off the very forces (capitalism, globalization) that he flies around the world criticizing.

Right, so no facts, just a grudge then.

Can you prove the use of the jet was unnecessary? Probably not.

Try_harder

Its low class from the Senator with 3 pensions!

Timberrrrrrrr

RobertKK wrote: »

You can get rooms in the same 5 star hotel for less than €500. It is hardly squalor.

And he probably could have stayed in a hostel fir €50 a night, then we would have people on here complain abiut how he is letting the country down by staying somewhere so cheap.

One wonders how many would be moaning if it was anyone other than Michael D who had stayed in this hotel?

Timberrrrrrrr

Turnipman wrote: »

And the link to your exhaustive research that led you to that conclusion can be found where exactly?

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057899793/1

Turnipman

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

One wonders how many would be moaning if it was anyone other than Michael D who had stayed in this hotel?

Surely that would depend largely on who the "anyone other" was?

If it was you, for example, then I couldn't give a tinker's curse; but if it was someone in the well-remunerated Irish poverty industry then I'd be rather unhappy.

Timberrrrrrrr

Turnipman wrote: »

Surely that would depend largely on who the "anyone other" was?

If it was you, for example, then I couldn't give a tinker's curse; but if it was someone in the well-remunerated Irish poverty industry then I'd be rather unhappy.

I meant if it was anyone else as president, i think the (non) story here is the fact it was Michael D who stayed in a hotel where suites CAN COST (that's the important part by the way...CAN) up to 3k a night. If it was say Gerry Adams or Sean Gallagher i dont think the (faux) outrage would be so bad.

_Whimsical_

Matt Barrett wrote: »

He stayed in a hotel where the rooms can cost up to 3000 a night...
The cur



He should have stayed in a hostel the blaggard.

I find this attitude so difficult to understand.
We are talking two months rent for the average family here frittered away in one night on a jaunt that will mean nothing to us as tax payers. We are talking salary for an extra nurse for a month or two that would see less people suffer on trolleys in A&E. I could go on!

Sure he may have knocked out a few verses of a poem somewhere but does it translate to anything meaningful in terms of encouraging investment or forging links of practical usel?
I don't see that we can afford this level of high rolling our most eloquent intellectual around the world to muse on his pet topics to assembled audiences.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

seamus wrote: »

Can you prove the use of the jet was unnecessary? Probably not.

Jetting down to Kerry to attend a concert held to commemorate a late poet?

Sounds like a national emergency, all right. Not a second to waste.

TerrorFirmer

It irritates me that people act like there's nothing between a €100 Travel Lodge or an elite-tier 3K room.

There is a middle ground. Of course no-one expects the president of any country to stay in anything other than a good room in a 5 star hotel. However, does it have to be one that costs several thousand a night? It's an honest, valid question.

It really annoys me that the office of the president is not covered by the FOI act. That needs to change - doesn't strike me as very democratic that a token figurehead (however charming he may be) with no actual political power is essentially give a blank cheque book with no-one to answer to.

It's amusing to me that people are annoyed about the price of a one night stay in Switzerland.
If you think about the amount of places & countries he has been to, the cost is massive!
So getting your panties bunched up for one night seems stupid.

seamus

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

Jetting down to Kerry to attend a concert held to commemorate a late poet?

Sounds like a national emergency, all right. Not a second to waste.

No, I didn't think you would provide any proof. "Burn the socialist!". Keep banging that drum, one day you'll get your libertarian dream where people die on the streets from preventable causes while you sneer at them for just not working hard enough.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

seamus wrote: »

No, I didn't think you would provide any proof. "Burn the socialist!". Keep banging that drum, one day you'll get your libertarian dream where people die on the streets from preventable causes while you sneer at them for just not working hard enough.

What a bunch of disconnected, histrionic nonsense.

We shouldn't go too hard on the guy, he needs a room paid for by tax-payers befitting his affected upper-class accent. For some reason this guy gets given the easiest ride ever by the media and the Irish public. He's never had to make any very difficult policy decisions. He used to speak out against the centre-right policy that was being implemented by Fine Gael (who I hate) that got the country back on (some sort of) track, all the while knowing (I would hope) that in the real world the socialist stuff he was espousing wouldn't fix things, all the while pocketing 5 grand a week before tax. He selfishly refused to state his intentions as to whether or not he would decide to run again, stalling others' campaigns from getting going. He bigs up socialist dictators. He even tried to run for the presidency in 2004 back when there was no appetite for a new president whatsoever among the public, showing that holding such a high-status, statesman-type position where you don't actually need to make tough decisions was something he has wanted for a long time. When he got elected in 2011, rather than cut his salary (then 325,000) below that of the Taoiseach who actually has to be judged day in day out on the state of the country, he cut it to 250,000, so that he'd be the highest paid politician. He didn't like it when he was made fun of by satirists throughout his presidency. He signed the deeply unpopular water charges bill into law, with the mealy-mouthed statement that he had given "careful consideration to all aspects of the Bill", when the little people were dead set against it.

There is a middle ground, as some poster said, between a "travel lodge" and 3 grand a night. Even 1 grand a night would have been disgusting but it would be understandable to some degree, considering the context. I know he didn't book his own room but the fact people are so willing to defend him shows how duped most people are by him.

davetherave

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Curious what makes him better than any citizen

Article 12.1 of the Constitution.

There shall be a President of Ireland (Uachtarán na hÉireann), hereinafter called the President, who shall take precedence over all other persons in the State

Hitman3000

Timberrrrrrrr wrote:

Has it been established yet that the Irish taxpayer paid for this?

I'm happy to bet my next month's wages that the state ie the citizens picked up the tab.

Hitman3000

Timberrrrrrrr wrote:

I meant if it was anyone else as president, i think the (non) story here is the fact it was Michael D who stayed in a hotel where suites CAN COST (that's the important part by the way...CAN) up to 3k a night. If it was say Gerry Adams or Sean Gallagher i dont think the (faux) outrage would be so bad.

The article was also about the lack of transparency regarding the office of President.

Hitman3000

davetherave wrote:

There shall be a President of Ireland (Uachtarán na hÉireann), hereinafter called the President, who shall take precedence over all other persons in the State

Yeah that's taking priority. I asked what makes him better than other citizens. Surely the socialist that he proports to be would not assume he is better than his fellow citizen or has he changed since he got the gig?

Rows Grower

Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »

Jetting down to Kerry to attend a concert held to commemorate a late poet?

Sounds like a national emergency, all right. Not a second to waste.

It seems to really upset you that you read somewhere that the President used a jet to fly to Kerry for a concert.

You need to let this go or you will stress yourself over it.

No one else really cares or believes that it actually cost what you claim it did.

What about the entrance fee to the concert, how much was that?

Did he pay?

Do you know?

Rows Grower

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I find this attitude so difficult to understand.
We are talking two months rent for the average family here frittered away in one night on a jaunt that will mean nothing to us as tax payers. We are talking salary for an extra nurse for a month or two that would see less people suffer on trolleys in A&E. I could go on!

Sure he may have knocked out a few verses of a poem somewhere but does it translate to anything meaningful in terms of encouraging investment or forging links of practical usel?
I don't see that we can afford this level of high rolling our most eloquent intellectual around the world to muse on his pet topics to assembled audiences.

Can you please explain how having the funds to pay a nurse for a month could ease the trolley crisis?

What a load of waffle.