General Irish Government discussion thread [See Post 1805]

christy c

Matt Barrett wrote: »

A poster referenced Varadkar and voting him out. I broadened that by discussing government supply/demand and how the indies and FF were just as culpable as FG regarding failed policy. This was not me opening a debate on the 2016 election.
I wasn't aware I was opening a debate on the 2016 election and I didn't want to. I covered all of this before you chimed in. Frankly this is pedantry and to be honest I'm not sure what the point is.

This is absolutely ridiculous, you started the debate on FF FGs deal and tried to claim something else. I corrected you but instead of accepting that here you are here generating paragraphs and paragraphs of waffle. As you said, I'm not sure what the point is.

I'll leave it there because if you haven't gotten it by now I don't think you ever will.

James Brown

Another protest I see:

Thousands take part in Raise the Roof housing protest
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1003/1000651-raise-the-roof-rally/

I await Leo's measured response. 'It's worse elsewhere'? 'Get up earlier'? 'You wouldn't see immigrants out protesting, too busy working!'?

Idbatterim

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Another protest I see:



I await Leo's measured response. 'It's worse elsewhere'? 'Get up earlier'? 'You wouldn't see immigrants out protesting, too busy working!'?

I totally agree. He’ll be suggesting working eighty hours weeks next and you’ll lose half it over the pittance of e34,500 So all the gravy can flow to the top...

McMurphy

Housing shortage looks set to be declared a national emergency according to various news reports.

Wouldn't this go against the general consensus around here by certain posters?

Not even sure what, if any use this will do, but it looks set to be declared a national emergency anyway.

lawred2

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Housing shortage looks set to be declared a national emergency according to various news reports.

Wouldn't this go against the general consensus around here by certain posters?

Not even sure what, if any use this will do, but it looks set to be declared a national emergency anyway.

Does that mean military style camps in the curragh?

James Brown

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Housing shortage looks set to be declared a national emergency according to various news reports.

Wouldn't this go against the general consensus around here by certain posters?

Not even sure what, if any use this will do, but it looks set to be declared a national emergency anyway.

If it weren't for the occasional 'ranter' with 'an agenda' there'd be only tumble weeds. I would think a political commentator of any stripe would be open to discussing the crises rather than sitting in wait to pick holes on anyone speaking negatively as regards the current government and it's national emergency.

The Taoiseach said he was already on the record saying it was an emergency, adding "if it wasn't an emergency we wouldn't be spending €60m a year, putting people up in emergency accommodation."
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/1003/1000687-dail-housing/

I ask you. Showing the bill for waste as a defense.

This could see FF pull away from the supply agreement, in place since the 2016 election. It would be some irony to have the party who got in in 2011 under the false pretense of being an alternative to Fianna Fail be brought down by the removal of their support. We really need to put these two sham parties to bed. The sooner the better.

Edward M

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Housing shortage looks set to be declared a national emergency according to various news reports.

Wouldn't this go against the general consensus around here by certain posters?

Not even sure what, if any use this will do, but it looks set to be declared a national emergency anyway.

Had a chance to see at first hand yesterday and today a national emergency, at an A&E dept, spent 12 hours with my young lad waiting for treatment, from 4 pm yesterday afternoon till around 4:30 am this morning before he got a trolley, and around 11 am before he received treatment for his injury and discharge after that.
The queues of both young and old sitting on rock hard seating waiting both patiently and impatiently, with no chance of any early or quick prognosis was staggering.
What's the prognosis for fixing that emergency I wonder?

Idbatterim

This kip is insane. If your yard stick for a society is gdp or gnp, yeah we are doing great though ! Lol! This housing “crisis “was an emergency 2/3 years ago! It sure as hell feels as such when you’re on the receiving end of it and not at the other end , creaming it off...

Let all the “investors” warren buffets, wolf of Wall streets (I’m being sarcastic to the extreme ) make a killing out of something other than the most basic human necessity!

McMurphy

lawred2 wrote: »

Does that mean military style camps in the curragh?

Does what mean military style camps in the curragh

lawred2

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Does what mean military style camps in the curragh

National emergency

You know for national emergencies

National joke making a housing shortage a national emergency.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Housing shortage looks set to be declared a national emergency according to various news reports.

Wouldn't this go against the general consensus around here by certain posters?

Not even sure what, if any use this will do, but it looks set to be declared a national emergency anyway.

Another pointless publicity stunt by the PBP.

You would think that they would do something about building housing in the local authorities they share control of.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

What sort of a gaffe did Leo make yesterday evening anyway when he made a statement that immigrants were more likely to be working and paying taxes than "the average Irish person"

Is this what he thinks of the people in the state or was it a catchy soundbite, blurted out in the heat of the moment, proving that he's just as daft as Enda when he's not reading off some script?

A week before the budget too.

What a clanger.

Varadkar speaks the truth. Poster throws a wobbly.

If ever there was a clear sign of the Irish culture of entitlement, that was it.

christy c

Idbatterim wrote: »

Matt you will remember Varadkar suggestion a while back , that was leaked, about fake accounts being set up to support government. There must be plenty of them on boards and this thread. Nobody or no party is perfect. But to be blindly defending fg to the hilt, it’s probably Leo himself! “How are ya Leo?” sorry I didn’t blue thumb your latest social media post!

I will defend them as best of a bad lot, especially when you have obvious supporters of other parties in here basically saying how could you vote for FG. As regards fake accounts, I suspect there are some around from all parties or their supporters. It seems to be a case of defend ones team no matter what.

Having said that, I agree with a lot of what you say and believe your posts are genuine. I think the standard of politics in Ireland is terrible, it seems that all parties are in competition to promise the most goodies regardless of whether it is good for the country or not.

PeadarCo

Idbatterim wrote: »

This kip is insane. If your yard stick for a society is gdp or gnp, yeah we are doing great though ! Lol! This housing “crisis “was an emergency 2/3 years ago! It sure as hell feels as such when you’re on the receiving end of it and not at the other end , creaming it off...

Let all the “investors” warren buffets, wolf of Wall streets (I’m being sarcastic to the extreme ) make a killing out of something other than the most basic human necessity!

How would you sort the problem out. I've already shown just asking the government to build houses isn't simple. That's not to say it can't or shouldn't be done but any plan has to acknowledge these problems and show how they can be overcome. (government procurement rules are an anti corruption measure and a necessary evil so can't just be waved away)

Have you ever built a house? Do you understand that any house requires a large number of people and time to get it built. That's from obtaining the site, planning permission (the bigger the development the more likely you will have objections which means more people and more time) architects, the large number of trades people, estate agents, banks etc etc. Building a house takes time. The housing crisis will take a few years to resolve. Anyone who says anything different is either lying or more likely absolutely clueless about what it takes to get houses built.

Screaming just build houses does nothing and is counter productive as it encourages the government to opt for short term solutions like the first time buyers grant, like the tax relief for renters mentioned earlier. Things that just inflate the market and means who ever is in power can say they are doing something instead focusing on measures while having less of an immediate impact might have a chance of actually solving the problem.

Idbatterim

How would I sort the problems out? Where do I start! But here’s a suggestion, stop taxing labour at idiotic levels, the marginal rate. It’s so anti enterprise and employment , it’s a joke. Next deal with the idiotic planning system here, the one that is resulting in hotel room shortages, damaging our competitiveness, the idiotic height restrictions, the lack of housing which is a massive issue now , not just for the homeless, for bloody existing and potential employers here. This moronic farce of a planning system, the cost of it, must amount to billions a year in losses! all of the arguing here comes down to money and those morons at the helm, who claim to be the best caretakers of the economy, are massively hindering its potential!

Will I start going on the appalling value for money the departments get ? The outrageous welfare state ? The endless buying off of pensioners at the expense of others... I’ll stop there, just a brief touch of some of the issues in banana republic !

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

Idbatterim wrote: »

Matt you will remember Varadkar suggestion a while back , that was leaked, about fake accounts being set up to support government. There must be plenty of them on boards and this thread. Nobody or no party is perfect. But to be blindly defending fg to the hilt, it’s probably Leo himself! “How are ya Leo?” sorry I didn’t blue thumb your latest social media post!

If you suspect any account is a fake or a shill, report the post and we'll investigate. Calling other posters shills is against the charter.

PeadarCo

Idbatterim wrote: »

How would I sort the problems out? Where do I start! But here’s a suggestion, stop taxing labour at idiotic levels, the marginal rate. It’s so anti enterprise and employment , it’s a joke. Next deal with the idiotic planning system here, the one that is resulting in hotel room shortages, damaging our competitiveness, the idiotic height restrictions, the lack of housing which is a massive issue now , not just for the homeless, for bloody existing and potential employers here. This moronic farce of a planning system, the cost of it, must amount to billions a year in losses! all of the arguing here comes down to money and those morons at the helm, who claim to be the best caretakers of the economy, are massively hindering its potential!

Will I start going on the appalling value for money the departments get ? The outrageous welfare state ? The endless buying off of pensioners at the expense of others... I’ll stop there, just a brief touch of some of the issues in banana republic !

So how would you deal with those problems? (many of which I would agree with)

Take the planning system for example. It is very bad with dealing with large infrastructure projects. Apple in Galway being a good example. In terms of housing every political party says they want more houses but if look back over the last few years every party has TDs that have campaigned against housing developments in their local area. How would you deal with that?

Once you start digging problems you run into the Irish political system where TDs are in some ways glorified County councillors. That's a problem no matter who is in power will face.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Another pointless publicity stunt by the PBP.

You would think that they would do something about building housing in the local authorities they share control of.

I would point out that the greens are fully on-board with the motion too, but like most of.their other stances on things that fly in the face of FGs stance, you'll tell me that "you don't have to support every stance they take".

Surely you must be full scale FG man at this stage. In fact I find it increasingly difficult to believe that you actually vote for them at all.......

Political parties backing the motion also include Sinn F, the Labour Party, People Before Profit, Solidarity, the Green Party, Social Democrats and Independents4Change

:pac:

Idbatterim

Have I ever built a house ? I’m refurbishing a ten thousand square foot one for years at this stage, mostly on my own and wth a family member, so safe to to say I’ve some idea of the complexities involved. I also run businesses and have first hand experience of government tendering, it’s such a joke , I haven’t bothered in years. One department rang me a few months ago , asking our company why we weren’t tendering , firstly I wasn’t actually aware of it and secondly I wouldn’t bother given my experience of it.

If these morons spent the money like it was coming out of their own pocket, the country would be in a much better place!

Watching this farce here unfold, would be amusing to me if it weren’t at such a high cost to so many people!

If the **** hits the fan again with this level of national debt , lol at the implications it will have on the rats here this time. There’ll be actual “hard decisions “ to be made this time round !

James Brown

lawred2 wrote: »

National emergency

You know for national emergencies

National joke making a housing shortage a national emergency.

It's only funny if you're making off of the misery of others I'd imagine.

As with being poor and homeless, I would imagine a bunch of civil servants and or people in the field, possibly the odd academic and the odd elected official come together on a consensus as to what constitutes being poor, homeless or if a year on year upon year worsening housing crisis has become an emergency. Now we might disagree and we may laugh it off, but that's the accepted metric. We can't have just any Tom Dick or Harry deciding not to recognise such things. That's not how a society works.

Here's a joke; Leo citing the year on year cost towards the bill for 'emergency' housing. If it's par for the course it's hardly 'emergency' housing?

McMurphy

lawred2 wrote: »

National emergency

You know for national emergencies

National joke making a housing shortage a national emergency.

Is military style camps in the curragh the norm when declaring national emergency situations?

I'm still not with your sentiments tbh.


You say it's a joke, but it would seem pretty much every political party in D.E are calling for this, which would prob place you well within a minority, and perhaps the jokes on you?

lawred2

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Is military style camps in the curragh the norm when declaring national emergency situations?

I'm still not with your sentiments tbh.


You say it's a joke, but it would seem pretty much every political party in D.E are calling for this, which would prob place you well within a minority, and perhaps the jokes on you?

This is nothing more than a stunt. The means and mechanisms by which to solve this are already available to the government and to every council in Ireland.

What will this stunt solve? Nothing.

Populist parties calling for something in DE means next to nothing.

McMurphy

lawred2 wrote: »

This is nothing more than a stunt. The means and mechanisms by which to solve this are already available to the government and to every council in Ireland.

What will this stunt solve? Nothing.

Populist parties calling for something in DE means next to nothing.

Homeless crisis is an emergency, concedes Varadkar


Was Leo at a stunt too?

James Brown

Maybe giving it emergency status will force it to a priority.
They say 'no quick fix', I would suggest buying housing off the market for use as social housing, paying private landlords and putting families up in the likes of the Gresham would all be quick fixes, alas common place fixes.

Improvement on when Leo was spouting about it being worse elsewhere and Murphy saying it'll get worse before it gets better like getting worse is nature running it's course.

The real crisis is the attitude of Fine Gael and their enablers, Fianna Fail and Indies.

This is simply not true:

Mr Murphy said the Government had no "ideological position" in relation to housing and sought "common ground" amongst TDs in relation to local opposition to housing.

Record breaking numbers of child homeless will be my take away from Varadkar the caretaker Taoiseach

Sam Russell

Problems can only be solved by finding the source and dealing with each aspect.

Homeless people - where are they coming from?

There are those being evicted from tenancies because the landlord is 'requiring the property for his own use' which may be bogus.

There are those who are suffering a large increase in rent that they cannot afford.

There are those who have outgrown there current accommodation due to changes in family - children etc.

There are those that are made homeless because of family breakup.

There are those who decide to become homeless for other reasons, such as moving from rural to city for job or other reason.

There are those who are recent immigrants who cannot find appropriate accommodation.

There are no valid statistics that suggest where these numbers have come from such that valid strategies can be applied to solve the problems.

1. All rental rates should be on a register with the Private Tenancies Board, so that changes in rent can be tracked.

2. Evictions for any reason other than non-payment of rent, or antisocial behaviour should be illegal - at least for a period.

3. Rent rises should be stopped for a period, such as two or three years.

4. Non-payment of rent or antisocial behaviour should be fast tracked through the courts and not allowed to drag on. Landlords should be able to recoup unpaid rent through garnering from their income - wages or social welfare.

5. Offers of adequate accommodation should be sufficient to remove the person from the homeless list.

Now, armed with measures to stop people becoming homeless, the Gov should build social and affordable homes within the city, and near the city.

It is essential to stop people becoming homeless in the first place.

garhjw

Sam Russell wrote: »

Problems can only be solved by finding the source and dealing with each aspect.

Homeless people - where are they coming from?

There are those being evicted from tenancies because the landlord is 'requiring the property for his own use' which may be bogus.

There are those who are suffering a large increase in rent that they cannot afford.

There are those who have outgrown there current accommodation due to changes in family - children etc.

There are those that are made homeless because of family breakup.

There are those who decide to become homeless for other reasons, such as moving from rural to city for job or other reason.

There are those who are recent immigrants who cannot find appropriate accommodation.

There are no valid statistics that suggest where these numbers have come from such that valid strategies can be applied to solve the problems.

1. All rental rates should be on a register with the Private Tenancies Board, so that changes in rent can be tracked.

2. Evictions for any reason other than non-payment of rent, or antisocial behaviour should be illegal - at least for a period.

3. Rent rises should be stopped for a period, such as two or three years.

4. Non-payment of rent or antisocial behaviour should be fast tracked through the courts and not allowed to drag on. Landlords should be able to recoup unpaid rent through garnering from their income - wages or social welfare.

5. Offers of adequate accommodation should be sufficient to remove the person from the homeless list.

Now, armed with measures to stop people becoming homeless, the Gov should build social and affordable homes within the city, and near the city.

It is essential to stop people becoming homeless in the first place.

How does 2 you or 3 above work if it causes significant hardship on the property owner? Bank won’t give a mortgage on a property without vacant possession which means you can’t sell it. It will push investment properties back into negative equity. It’s just waffle from the left. After all they refer to landlords as parasites.

Sam Russell

garhjw wrote: »

How does 2 you or 3 above work if it causes significant hardship on the property owner? Bank won’t give a mortgage on a property without vacant possession which means you can’t sell it. It will push investment properties back into negative equity. It’s just waffle from the left. After all they refer to landlords as parasites.

I see plenty of properties that have a For Sale sign with 'Tenant unaffected', so someone is able to buy. Plus many sales of blocks of flats have gone to vulture funds and large property companies.

Negative equity is long gone from rental properties, and current rent exceeds the mortgage repayments for similar properties.

garhjw

Sam Russell wrote: »

I see plenty of properties that have a For Sale sign with 'Tenant unaffected', so someone is able to buy. Plus many sales of blocks of flats have gone to vulture funds and large property companies.

Negative equity is long gone from rental properties, and current rent exceeds the mortgage repayments for similar properties.

You can’t get a mortgage for a PPR unless it is vacant. Cash buyers and vulture funds might be willing to take the risk but it also means they can offer lower sums for properties. If I was an investor I wouldn’t risk buying a property with a sitting tenant.

There are plenty of properties still in negative equity and plenty where the mortgage repayments are higher than the rent received.... RPZs?

Sam Russell

garhjw wrote: »

You can’t get a mortgage for a PPR unless it is vacant. Cash buyers and vulture funds might be willing to take the risk but it also means they can offer lower sums for properties. If I was an investor I wouldn’t risk buying a property with a sitting tenant.

There are plenty of properties still in negative equity and plenty where the mortgage repayments are higher than the rent received.... RPZs?

There are also plenty of bogus 'up for sale' properties that are back looking for tenants at much higher rents after a very short interval.

Properties in negative equiyty are far fewer than before. Why sll the property if it is in negative equity?

VonZan

Sam Russell wrote: »

I see plenty of properties that have a For Sale sign with 'Tenant unaffected', so someone is able to buy. Plus many sales of blocks of flats have gone to vulture funds and large property companies.

Negative equity is long gone from rental properties, and current rent exceeds the mortgage repayments for similar properties.

Negative equity isn't long gone for some. Maybe in Dublin it is at this stage but there are still a lot of properties in the Midlands and elsewhere in the country that are still in negative equity.

There are also a lot of loans being subsidised by the state through the Housing Agency too. The owner would technically be out of negative equity but is locked into a lease with the HA for 10 years or more.