General Irish Government discussion thread [See Post 1805]

McMurphy · 09-01-2019 1:18pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Wow. You managed to blame Leo for an independent TD's NIMBYism.

I must remember that the next time I stub my toe, it's all Leo's fault.

No I'm not blaming Leo for the junior ministers NIMBYISM, McGrath can own that himself, I'm pointing out that it's endemic throughout our political class, and has been for years.

The fish rots from the head/crap flows downhill etc.

As for stubbing your toe, sure. If it makes you happy tear away.

blanch152 · 09-01-2019 1:46pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

No I'm not blaming Leo for the junior ministers NIMBYISM, McGrath can own that himself, I'm pointing out that it's endemic throughout our political class, and has been for years.

The fish rots from the head/crap flows downhill etc.

As for stubbing your toe, sure. If it makes you happy tear away.

If you are pointing out the endemic nature of NIMBYISM, you would first point at FF TDs, then at independent TDs. All the rest are behind them when it comes to it.

McMurphy · 09-01-2019 2:16pm

blanch152 wrote: »

If you are pointing out the endemic nature of NIMBYISM, you would first point at FF TDs, then at independent TDs. All the rest are behind them when it comes to it.

If we had an FF Taoiseach (we don't) I'd absolutely be pointing at him or her, but we don't, so I am pointing at Leo.

Junior minister in Govt indulging in NIMBYISM or the Taoiseach indulging in it, it's all the same to me.

It's just hypocritical to me to point and laugh at one, while defending the other.

James Brown · 09-01-2019 3:55pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

If we had an FF Taoiseach (we don't) I'd absolutely be pointing at him or her, but we don't, so I am pointing at Leo.

Junior minister in Govt indulging in NIMBYISM or the Taoiseach indulging in it, it's all the same to me.

It's just hypocritical to me to point and laugh at one, while defending the other.

Alas when FF get officially back in expect the same criticism. Does anyone really care what Gino's (his surname escapes me) stance is over the government ministers of the day? Don't hear much about the Greens or Labour and theres good reason for that. They don't really matter at present.
While it's important to keep tabs on the opposition or indeed Fianna Fail, it's just natural to keep a closer eye on the policy makers IMO.

ancapailldorcha · 09-01-2019 4:45pm

Locked for mod review.

ancapailldorcha · 09-01-2019 5:23pm

Ok, I've deleted a few posts. If there is any more backseat modding, bickering, sniping, personal stuff in general or speculating about ignore lists we will be issuing bans.

ancapailldorcha · 10-01-2019 1:51pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Ok, I've deleted a few posts. If there is any more backseat modding, bickering, sniping, personal stuff in general or speculating about ignore lists we will be issuing bans.

Mod: As an addendum to this, please cease any and all discussion of ignore lists. Thanks.

Edward M · 10-01-2019 11:16pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

No I'm not blaming Leo for the junior ministers NIMBYISM, McGrath can own that himself, I'm pointing out that it's endemic throughout our political class, and has been for years.

The fish rots from the head/crap flows downhill etc.

Would that count for all party's.
You say its endemic in our political class, what and who are our political class exactly, every elected public rep or candidate?
Basically what you're implying is that they are all the same at the end of the day, so why bother highlighting one instance?

McMurphy · 11-01-2019 12:48am

Edward M wrote: »

Would that count for all party's.
You say its endemic in our political class, what and who are our political class exactly, every elected public rep or candidate?

Yeah. You've heard the phrase - parish pump politics I assume?

Basically what you're implying is that they are all the same at the end of the day, so why bother highlighting one instance?

Apart from the fact that the very instance I highlighted had been defended on these threads (no I'm not going to direct you to these examples) - it was kinda pertinent to the post I replied to, him being head of government and all.

That's why I said the fish rots from the head.

James Brown · 15-01-2019 2:57pm

Citizenship debate:

Anyone born in Ireland is Irish?
To be debated Thursday.
I would have thought were politically to some 'nationalism' is such a dirty word, they wouldn't be so precious about it. To me it's a simple logic, if you're born somewhere that's were you are from. Citizenship should be a formality IMO.

I see:

In November last year, the Seanad voted in favour of a Labour Party Bill to give citizenship rights to children of non-national parents if they are born in Ireland and have lived in the State for more than three years.
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0115/1023349-citizenship-bill/

Did it go no further? And why the three and a half years? I would suspect it delays the child and likely family from true integration. Maybe the idea was they'd get browned off and move along which kind of make it look like a sham.

Edward M · 15-01-2019 4:28pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Citizenship debate:

Anyone born in Ireland is Irish?
To be debated Thursday.
I would have thought were politically to some 'nationalism' is such a dirty word, they wouldn't be so precious about it. To me it's a simple logic, if you're born somewhere that's were you are from. Citizenship should be a formality IMO.

I see:

Did it go no further? And why the three and a half years? I would suspect it delays the child and likely family from true integration. Maybe the idea was they'd get browned off and move along which kind of make it look like a sham.

You'd see a lot of birth tourism with just the fact you have to be born here to qualify as a citizen.

James Brown · 15-01-2019 4:54pm

Edward M wrote: »

You'd see a lot of birth tourism with just the fact you have to be born here to qualify as a citizen.

That's true but we could vet incoming people and if allowed in and they then have kids, those kids should be citizens IMO.

FreudianSlippers · 15-01-2019 4:57pm

A child born in Ireland whist their parent/guardian are lawfully in the country should have the option of citizenship from birth. We would need a method to ensure their parent/guardian remains lawfully resident not just on foot of their dependent being a citizen. It would require a referendum and significant legislative effort.

Podge_irl · 15-01-2019 5:45pm

Edward M wrote: »

You'd see a lot of birth tourism with just the fact you have to be born here to qualify as a citizen.

We didn't exactly see a huge amount of it in all the years up to 2004 when birthright citizenship was removed from the constitution.

An utterly asinine, disgusting sham of a referendum that happily played on those fears though.

James Brown · 15-01-2019 7:08pm

By all accounts that spiked in 2015 and has dropped dramatically.

blanch152 · 16-01-2019 3:27pm

https://www.thejournal.ie/yellow-vest-protest-4441803-Jan2019/

The Yellow Vests Ireland lot who want Leo out seem to have got a huge turnout.

"Another protester also complained about people voicing support for the movement online but not turning up to today’s event.

“Why are people sitting at home on their keyboards when you want Leo out? All you want to do is attack people on the Facebook. Keyboard warriors, we need warriors, feet on the street,” he said."

Gunmonkey · 16-01-2019 6:40pm

Love the "Not my Taoiseach!" chants...when he is! Its not up for debate or argument, like the 2016 US election that spawned that soundbite. The Taoiseach is the head of the majority party in the Dail, as they can hoist the most votes for legislation...you never vote for one!

Or are they looking for a system like the US, where you have a separately elected Taoiseach and Dail and get opposing views and aims between them and then shutdowns like they are having now or weeks of arguments and nonsense as legislation doesn't get passed.

McMurphy · 17-01-2019 1:28pm

Did my ears betray me, or did I just listen to a slot on the radio discussing the increase in gardai drink driving, breathalyser check points in the mornings, and how they have come under fierce criticism from various cabinet ministers , including the justice minister?

So we have the justice minister, from the law and order party, giving out about law and order being enforced?

We are through the looking glass it seems.

markodaly · 17-01-2019 1:32pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Did my ears betray me, or did I just listen to a slot on the radio discussing the increase in gardai drink driving, breathalyser check points in the mornings, and how they have come under fierce criticism from various cabinet ministers , including the justice minister?

So we have the justice minister, from the law and order party, giving out about law and order being enforced?

We are through the looking glass it seems.

I am going to take a punt here but what you described what happened is not what actually happened.

McMurphy · 17-01-2019 1:37pm

markodaly wrote: »

I am going to take a punt here but what you described what happened is not what actually happened.

Listen back to Newstalk, Ciara Kelly slot.

Also.

The Cabinet this week heard a number of concerns about the latest efforts by the Garda roads policing unit in rural Ireland. Among those who spoke on the issue were Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan, Minister for Business Heather Humphreys, Minister for Agriculture Michael Creed and Minster for Rural Development Michael Ring.

markodaly · 17-01-2019 1:56pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Listen back to Newstalk, Ciara Kelly slot.

Also.

Exactly. Nowhere was it mentioned that the Justice Minister criticised the Gardai.

McMurphy · 17-01-2019 1:58pm

markodaly wrote: »

Exactly. Nowhere was it mentioned that the Justice Minister criticised the Gardai.

Very first sentence.

Increased drink driving checkpoints by An Garda Sh, particularly in the mornings, as a result of tighter drink driving laws have come in for heavy criticism from Ministers, including the Minister for Justice.

markodaly · 17-01-2019 2:05pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Very first sentence.

It's a cabinet meeting. Its all hearsay as its not allowed to be recorded.

McMurphy · 17-01-2019 2:17pm

markodaly wrote: »

It's a cabinet meeting. Its all hearsay as its not allowed to be recorded.

To recap, your shifting positions have been (so far)

What I described happened didn't happen. (Remember I said I just listened to a slot discussing it on the radio) I then advised you to listen back to the same radio slot, and have you a link to where the same claims were made by a different media source.

You then say it doesn't mention the justice minister criticising the gards.

I copy and paste from the very first sentence.

You then say hearsay.

FreudianSlippers · 17-01-2019 2:30pm

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Love the "Not my Taoiseach!" chants...when he is! Its not up for debate or argument, like the 2016 US election that spawned that soundbite.

That phrase has been around since George W Bush invaded Iraq.

FreudianSlippers · 17-01-2019 2:33pm

markodaly wrote: »

It's a cabinet meeting. Its all hearsay as its not allowed to be recorded.

Cabinet meetings are recorded; you can go to the High Court to request copies of them if you want. It's bad form for members to divulge what was said, but it's not against the rules AFAIK.

Idbatterim · 17-01-2019 3:48pm

given the latest children hospital debacle. Worsening housing crisis and popularism on a FF boom level, Ill do the unthinkable and vote FF. Removing Varadkar as Taoiseach and not rewarding constant failure, will make it a price worth paying...

If all they care about it power, remove them from it, we dont need to wait for their incompetence to sink the country again, they arent doing good enough, they might think a bit harder the next time about just dawdling along!

James Brown · 17-01-2019 3:52pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

given the latest children hospital debacle. Worsening housing crisis and popularism on a FF boom level, Ill do the unthinkable and vote FF. Removing Varadkar as Taoiseach and not rewarding constant failure, will make it a price worth paying...

If all they care about it power, remove them from it, we dont need to wait for their incompetence to sink the country again, they arent doing good enough, they might think a bit harder the next time about just dawdling along!

I feel your pain, however Fianna Fail are no different. Different style maybe. But look at the you scratch my back agreement we currently have in place. FF might do more door prize giveaways but not much else different.
I'd suggest going for an SD or indie, maybe even the Greens for the craic.

FreudianSlippers · 17-01-2019 5:26pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Matt the entire host of options are comedy! pure comedy! but removing that snake spoofer as Taoiseach would give me some satisfaction! he craves the limelight , hopefully he gets removed from it!

I had a lot of hope for Leo, but he's proven to be all style and no substance.

James Brown · 17-01-2019 5:46pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Matt the entire host of options are comedy! pure comedy! but removing that snake spoofer as Taoiseach would give me some satisfaction! he craves the limelight , hopefully he gets removed from it!

True just sad to see anyone vote Fianna Fail

I suppose you know what you're getting and that seems to be comfort for voters.
The only wasted vote is one where people pick their options based on most likely to win IMO.

General Irish Government discussion thread [See Post 1805]

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