General Irish Government discussion thread [See Post 1805]

eire4

blanch152 wrote: »

How many times does it have to be explained that FG are not in coalition partnership with FF?

A confidence and supply arrangement is as far from a partnership you can go without being in opposition. Incredible that this is not understood nearly four years on.

They really should get it over with and merge at this point. Very little difference between the 2 of them they are both center right parties.

beggars_bush

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Brilliant to see.



Well done FG.

Hope they have a good insurance policy on the project

beggars_bush

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Like IW I suppose, that worked well.

You mean, spending money on our water infrastructure and trying to bring it into the 21st century?

None of which would be done under the county councils

An Ciarraioch

Interesting tweet by Gavan Reilly - currently Government has 54 votes to Opposition's 51, but Carol Nolan, Mattie McGrath and Noel Grealish undecided. Followed up by saying that if Murphy was kept in office by the Ceann Comhairle, it would be a technical victory, but politically untenable:

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1201958328345268225

blanch152

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Interesting tweet by Gavan Reilly - currently Government has 54 votes to Opposition's 51, but Carol Nolan, Mattie McGrath and Noel Grealish undecided. Followed up by saying that if Murphy was kept in office by the Ceann Comhairle, it would be a technical victory, but politically untenable:

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1201958328345268225

Young Reilly doesn’t seem to know his history, there have been plenty of times over the years where a government was saved by the casting vote of the Ceann Comhairle.

Just an attention-seeking tweet.

hotmail.com

blanch152 wrote: »

Young Reilly doesn’t seem to know his history, there have been plenty of times over the years where a government was saved by the casting vote of the Ceann Comhairle.

Just an attention-seeking tweet.

Reilly = amateur hour.

L1011

blanch152 wrote: »

Young Reilly doesn’t seem to know his history, there have been plenty of times over the years where a government was saved by the casting vote of the Ceann Comhairle.

Just an attention-seeking tweet.

This is a vote in an individual Minister, not the Government, however.

Bishop of hope

beggars_bush wrote: »

You mean, spending money on our water infrastructure and trying to bring it into the 21st century?

None of which would be done under the county councils

No, uncle Denis would have done it of course, not now though, there's no money in it anymore.

Bishop of hope

The question is lost!
There were a lot of empty seats in there, reality is that none of them gave a damn about the sd motion, just a chance to throw a bit of ****e across the floor at the Govt.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/KieranDineen/status/1201989293658529792

He has survived.

hotmail.com

The government helped over the line by Noel Grealish and Michael Lowry, as well as Maria Bailey.

bazermc

Why are they voting again?

Neeson

bazermc wrote: »

Why are they voting again?

Voting on paper because they think some of them voted On behalf of others not there.

Markcheese

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Easy to improve upon FG. Do the opposite. Build our own rather than lease. Very simple. The market cools, tax payers can afford to rent and buy.
I think most dogs in the street could perform better than FG on housing.

I agree about building.. It should have been started 5 years ago, when they could see the problem... But it isn't simple..
You need to keep the cost largely off balance sheet, (cos if you borrow too much you'll crash the economy.. Again)
You can't let the councils do it, (cos they're crap)
You can't devalue housing (negative equity), , and you can't devalue sites (banks)
You can't crash the private construction industry, they're only getting going again
You can't just build new public housing miles out of cities (think modern ballymun, but way further out),
You can't just build new estates that immediately become sink estates,
And there's objections and string pulling to any development near anyone... To which all state projects are politically susceptible.. (right up to death threats to builders)

Oh and not forgetting protests against prefabricated houses... They weren't going to be good enough..

Glad its not my job to deliver housing...

Jim2007

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Nobody could resolve the legacy of what FF left behind in 10 years.

The legacy of the crash will be with us for at least 30 years.

Debt per capita down from 124% to 64% it is well and truly over and no longer an acceptable excuse, move on.

stampydmonkey

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Like IW I suppose, that worked well.

Yes...it is working well. Far better in fact than the local authorities

blanch152

Jim2007 wrote: »

Debt per capita down from 124% to 64% it is well and truly over and no longer an acceptable excuse, move on.

Not if you look at GNI rather than GDP.

James Brown

average_runner wrote: »

If its that easy why haven't u run for office?

Tired cop out of a response. No answer will save FG's blushes. Why don't you?

blanch152 wrote: »

How many times does it have to be explained that FG are not in coalition partnership with FF?

A confidence and supply arrangement is as far from a partnership you can go without being in opposition. Incredible that this is not understood nearly four years on.

I understand the technicalities are removed from the realities. They support each other so in effect are in bed.

beggars_bush wrote: »

You mean, spending money on our water infrastructure and trying to bring it into the 21st century?

None of which would be done under the county councils

Even IW said the LA's did a great job despite decades of under funding.
The LA's used contractors, now we've a quango, overseeing the LA's use contractors. Worth every laughing yoga mat.

stampydmonkey wrote: »

Yes...it is working well. Far better in fact than the local authorities

It's the same LA's and contractors but with more money.

James Brown

Markcheese wrote: »

I agree about building.. It should have been started 5 years ago, when they could see the problem... But it isn't simple..
You need to keep the cost largely off balance sheet, (cos if you borrow too much you'll crash the economy.. Again)
You can't let the councils do it, (cos they're crap)
You can't devalue housing (negative equity), , and you can't devalue sites (banks)
You can't crash the private construction industry, they're only getting going again
You can't just build new public housing miles out of cities (think modern ballymun, but way further out),
You can't just build new estates that immediately become sink estates,
And there's objections and string pulling to any development near anyone... To which all state projects are politically susceptible.. (right up to death threats to builders)

Oh and not forgetting protests against prefabricated houses... They weren't going to be good enough..

Glad its not my job to deliver housing...

Who suggested the LA's build them?
We get developers to build on our land all the time. Only difference is we lease off them what they build or buy instead of paying them to build for us. But, alas, there's less private profit for vulture funds and FG don't like that. That's the crux of the housing crisis. FG don't like pals to lose money.
Nobody is talking about crashing the market. That will come in time any way. Cool the market then when taxpayers can afford rent in meaningful numbers, build less social housing.
Yes FG and LA's get rode by developers. Stupid is as stupid does, however we'd still be better off using them to build for us than giving them our land to build for themselves.
Personally, prefab and boutique tenements is not the way to go.

Bishop of hope

markodaly wrote: »

The level of debate in this thread has had a marked decline in quality imo.
Can we please up it and discuss actual Irish government policy then the usual drive by type of posts more akin to the other Current Affairs forum?

Like how well they are doing I suppose?
Current Govt policy isn't getting to grips with its major social problems is it. Health is a shambles, housing crisis seems to be getting worse, likewise for a lot of other depts, just barely lurching along with probably the worst excuse for a Dail composition we've ever seen.
Govt and the major party's seem to have become detached from their voter base and voters are showing this by becoming more unsure of who they can trust.
The fragmentation in politics has been driven by seemingly bad governmental policies over the last few decades, seemingly corporate driven policies that are leaving the average man and woman struggling while the corporates glean the huge billions of profits out of our economy. Meanwhile the state itself and its citizens struggle?

Bishop of hope

An article in the independent today, looks like the cb is resisting Leo's and FGs attempt to perhaps relax the credit rules.
Maybe FG are trying to go back to the "old" FF ways as regards housing to help relax their problems.
Looks to me like they are prepared to risk another housing crash or bust just to alleviate themselves from their own housing provision shortfall.
https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/commuter-belt-buckles-as-new-homebuyers-forced-further-out-38755838.html

BonnieSituation

Bishop of hope wrote: »

An article in the independent today, looks like the cb is resisting Leo's and FGs attempt to perhaps relax the credit rules.
Maybe FG are trying to go back to the "old" FF ways as regards housing to help relax their problems.
Looks to me like they are prepared to risk another housing crash or bust just to alleviate themselves from their own housing provision shortfall.
https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/commuter-belt-buckles-as-new-homebuyers-forced-further-out-38755838.html

The Central Bank announced they weren't relaxing rules yesterday. It's not really news this morning.

markodaly

Bishop of hope wrote: »

An article in the independent today, looks like the cb is resisting Leo's and FGs attempt to perhaps relax the credit rules.
Maybe FG are trying to go back to the "old" FF ways as regards housing to help relax their problems.
Looks to me like they are prepared to risk another housing crash or bust just to alleviate themselves from their own housing provision shortfall.
https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/commuter-belt-buckles-as-new-homebuyers-forced-further-out-38755838.html

Can you link us to any evidence that Leo and the Government wanted the rules to be relaxed? I did hear people from Goodbodys and AIB talk about it, but I did not hear anyone from the government refer to it.

Kamili

markodaly wrote: »

Can you link us to any evidence that Leo and the Government wanted the rules to be relaxed? I did hear people from Goodbodys and AIB talk about it, but I did not hear anyone from the government refer to it.

here you go

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/loosen-mortgage-lending-rules-varadkar-calls-on-central-bank-to-help-couples-caught-in-rent-trap-38350181.html

“I know the Central Bank is independent, I know it’s going to look at these things but as supply increases I hope that they would consider changes in that area so that people can get out of that rent trap and be able to buy.”

markodaly

Kamili wrote: »

here you go

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/loosen-mortgage-lending-rules-varadkar-calls-on-central-bank-to-help-couples-caught-in-rent-trap-38350181.html

Ok I missed that, even though it was back in June.

Also, the point he was making there specifically was about people paying rent, that is not counted as the ability to save, or valid for paying off a mortgage when applying which is kinda valid, as it is a rent trap. I know why the banks don't do this, but there may be wiggle room there.
So not quite on par with what I heard during the past few weeks.

However, I would criticise any attempt from Leo or FG to tell the CB to lessen the rules, like the guys from AIB and Goodbodies were saying, where they were essentially telling the CB to through more money/debt at the housing sector.

Bishop of hope

markodaly wrote: »

Ok I missed that, even though it was back in June.

Also, the point he was making there specifically was about people paying rent, that is not counted as the ability to save, or valid for paying off a mortgage when applying which is kinda valid, as it is a rent trap. I know why the banks don't do this, but there may be wiggle room there.
So not quite on par with what I heard during the past few weeks.

However, I would criticise any attempt from Leo or FG to tell the CB to lessen the rules, like the guys from AIB and Goodbodies were saying, where they were essentially telling the CB to through more money/debt at the housing sector.

So why do you think this Govt is trying to get the cb to loosen their rules?
Would it be that they're overwhelmed by housing and are prepared to take a risk in the hope of solving the problem that way as they are failing with their policies?

Kamili

Bishop of hope wrote: »

So why do you think this Govt is trying to get the cb to loosen their rules?
Would it be that they're overwhelmed by housing and are prepared to take a risk in the hope of solving the problem that way as they are failing with their policies?

I think they want to be seen to understand the issues that most people have in an attempt to get votes.

Varadkar himself has admitted supply is the issue and people are caught in a rent trap, unable to save.

Bishop of hope

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Yes. Exactly the point being made.

If you read my link, I got it today, here's another from RTE, it clearly states that this move to commuter belts will have a negative effect on not only the areas affected but the economy generally.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/1205/1097132-more-first-time-buyers-moving-to-dublin-commuter-belt/

ancapailldorcha

Bishop of hope wrote: »

So news is only news on the day it happens is it?

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I made it already, if it went over your head OK, I'm not reposting it.

Enough of the silly comments please.

Bishop of hope

A bit of a solo run from FFs John Mc Guinness, the confidence and supply arrangement described as a farce and the saving of both Harris and Murphy this year criticised.
He reckons that FF should have backed both motions.
He is right about the farce imo.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ff-td-says-he-will-vote-against-government-in-future-motion-of-no-confidence-1.4106053?mode=amp