General Irish Government discussion thread [See Post 1805]

Kermit.de.frog

McMurphy wrote: »

Of course they wouldn't - how could they after going to partner with FF for four years

The weakness in your assertion is that there was a choice to leave the country without a government during a time when we were recovering from the crash (but also Brexit) - if the EU were to be kept on side they would have wanted a stable Ireland to work with.


It's not as simple as "oh but FF backed the FG government" when there was a pressing need for a government.

Otherwise it would have been election after election and instability.

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

Of course they wouldn't - how could they after going to partner with FF for four years a mere five years after they got in, and telling the country about eating out of bins etc?

Well that one is simple enough to explain, the electorate decided that at the last election after rejecting the FG/Lab government.

But my point is it's easier campaign on soundbites rather that complexities.

McMurphy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The weakness in your assertion is that there was a choice to leave the country without a government during a time when we were recovering from the crash (but also Brexit) - if the EU were to be kept on side they would have wanted a stable Ireland to work with.


It's not as simple as "oh but FF backed the FG government" when there was a pressing need for a government.

Otherwise it would have been election after election and instability.

christy c wrote: »

Well that one is simple enough to explain, the electorate decided that at the last election after rejecting the FG/Lab government.

But my point is it's easier campaign on soundbites rather that complexities.

Only because of the aforementioned ineptitude and arrogance of the FG/Lab govt.

As I said, it will be side splittingly funny listening to FG try to pontificate on how bad FF are considering.

McMurphy

Charlie Flanagan better hope the local fg branch aren't calling for a meeting around about now too btw.

Kermit.de.frog

McMurphy wrote: »

As I said, it will be side splittingly funny listening to FG try to pontificate on how bad FF are considering.

Considering what?

Fianna Fáil busted up the country.

People talking about this RIC thing - lol.

Fianna Fáil had to accept a bailout from the United Kingdom.

How do you feel about that?

Still think we are dealing with anything remotely comparable to what Fianna Fáil did?

Delusional.

McMurphy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Considering what?

Fianna F busted up the country.

People talking about this RIC thing - lol.

Fianna F had to accept a bailout from the United Kingdom.

How do you feel about that?

Still think we are dealing with anything remotely comparable to what Fianna F did?

Delusional.

Considering everything else (I honestly didn't think I'd have to simplify that) that's went on since they have been in government.

As Christy has said, FG might well start screaming and shouting about the above.

4.8% unemployment
Live register at 12 year pre crash low
Budget surplus
Large employment growth
Growing population
Reversed mass emigration

To which opposition party members will then reply with the homeless/renting crises.

The trolley/health crisis.

Insurance issues in the country, and a fg minister and TD embroiled in that one.

You keep on harping on about the RIC controversy as if that's going to be the main/only sticking point for which to beat FG with, when it isn't. It is however going to be fresh in people's minds.

Throw in the children's hospital.

The broadband controversy (Denis O'Brien again, likely another enquiry too)
Siteserv/Irish water enquiry (uncle D again)

Garda whistleblowers.

Fobbing scandal.

Expenses.

Dara Murphy.



And on and on and on.

But FF.

Podge_irl

Well, yes. That's generally how elections work. FG will focus on the positives that are clearly there and the opposition will focus on the negatives that are clearly there.


Not sure what's so funny or unusual about it.

McMurphy

Podge_irl wrote: »

Well, yes. That's generally how elections work. FG will focus on the positives that are clearly there and the opposition will focus on the negatives that are clearly there.


Not sure what's so funny or unusual about it.

Who said it was either, I thought that's what we were doing, predicting what fg will proclaim, and how opposition will put a dampener on their pontificating?

Podge_irl

McMurphy wrote: »

Who said it was either, I thought that's what we were doing, predicting what fg will proclaim, and how opposition will put a dampener on their pontificating?

McMurphy wrote: »

As I said, it will be side splittingly funny listening to FG try to pontificate on how bad FF are considering.

You did

Hotblack Desiato

Bishop of hope wrote: »

More incompetence in the hse too today, more money down the swanny.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/hse-blunder-means-it-must-pay-millions-to-protect-files-38846438.html

A great example of a complete and utter non-story.

They'd spend more than 1.1m on bin liners.

Average cost is less than €24 per affected PC

They say they'll replace most of the affected PCs this year, the bill next year will be a lot smaller and replacing PCs which control/are linked to specialist equipment is a lot more difficult.

McMurphy

Podge_irl wrote: »

You did

Lol, obviously i did - but I took your post in the wrong context, mea culpa as Enda would have said, I thought you were referring to Kermit and my own interactions.

This election campaign is going to be the most entertaining one in years, there will be lots of beer and popcorn consumed in the McMurphy household, i will get my prediction in early though.

I reckon Leo's race is run. This election will finish him.

marieholmfan

Wouldn't these PCs have had to be patched or upgraded anyway?

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

A great example of a complete and utter non-story.

They'd spend more than 1.1m on bin liners.

Average cost is less than €24 per affected PC

They say they'll replace most of the affected PCs this year, the bill next year will be a lot smaller and replacing PCs which control/are linked to specialist equipment is a lot more difficult.

Podge_irl

marieholmfan wrote: »

Wouldn't these PCs have had to be patched or upgraded anyway?

Yes. They will be far from the only organisation doing this.

It’s certainly not a good thing but it’s not really indicative of much beyond large organisations being quite slow to change when it comes to IT which I imagine is not that surprising to most.

Podge_irl

McMurphy wrote: »

I reckon Leo's race is run. This election will finish him.

One way or another I expect it will be inconclusive, the only real question being which party will be the largest as I can’t see anyone being able to form a majority govt. interesting question though - if FG end up marginally the smaller party will that be enough for Leo to go.

PeadarCo

Podge_irl wrote: »

Yes. They will be far from the only organisation doing this.

It’s certainly not a good thing but it’s not really indicative of much beyond large organisations being quite slow to change when it comes to IT which I imagine is not that surprising to most.

It's very old news. I know of one semi state that was still running Windows XP a few years ago after Microsoft had stopped supporting XP. As you say for large organisations systems upgrades take a long time as it's not just the core system Windows 7/XP or something else you also have to make sure any programmes or machines that ran off the old system will run on the new system which is not always the case. The rarer your programme/machine the less chance it will have on going support. Given that you are looking at the HSE and that in some cases people's lives depend on things working correctly its not surprising they would be slow to upgrade. A badly managed/rushed upgrade has the potential to cost lives.

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

As Christy has said, FG might well start screaming and shouting about the above.



To which opposition party members will then reply with....

This is exactly what I was on about regarding soundbites (uncle D for example). While some things you mention are valid, even combined are loose change in comparison to the hundred and something billion national debt FF racked up. And I don't think FG will have a coherent enough message to counter the soundbites during an election.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

This is exactly what I was on about regarding soundbites (uncle D for example). While some things you mention are valid, even combined are loose change in comparison to the hundred and something billion national debt FF racked up. And I don't think FG will have a coherent enough message to counter the soundbites during an election.

Some?

FG made FF palatable to a lot of voters back in 16, and I don't think anyone could make any valid arguments that they've did anything to win any of them back since then, nevermind lose even more.

The uncle D reference surely doesn't bother you that much? It was said in jest btw.

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

Some?

FG made FF palatable to a lot of voters back in 16, and I don't think anyone could make any valid arguments that they've did anything to win any of them back since then, nevermind lose even more.

The uncle D reference surely doesn't bother you that much? It was said in jest btw.

I meant some things you mention are a valid criticism of FG (health for example, any party with a credible plan here?).

FG made FF palatable? That's one way of looking at it. Could also say that the other parties are so unpalatable that the electorate decided to give FF another go.

Uncle D doesn't bother me, just one of the soundbites I was referring to.

Bishop of hope

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

A great example of a complete and utter non-story.

They'd spend more than 1.1m on bin liners.

Average cost is less than €24 per affected PC

They say they'll replace most of the affected PCs this year, the bill next year will be a lot smaller and replacing PCs which control/are linked to specialist equipment is a lot more difficult.

Ah sure it's all irrelevant isn't it.
It must be great to have such a loyal following.
To me it's just another sign of gross incompetence.

Kermit.de.frog

Just watching Simon Coveney on the television giving his press conference on the north.

He's a very impressive politician well in tune with his brief.

L1011

Coveney has himself secured as the next FG leader at this stage. Could be a month, could be a few years.

Soulsun

When is the election likely to be called folks?

Bishop of hope

L1011 wrote: »

Coveney has himself secured as the next FG leader at this stage. Could be a month, could be a few years.

Probably before the election after next anyway.
They made a mistake overlooking him after Enda, I would have thought of him as the natural successor then.

Podge_irl

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Ah sure it's all irrelevant isn't it.
It must be great to have such a loyal following.
To me it's just another sign of gross incompetence.

My company came in the top 20 of Forbes World's Best Employer's list and we are struggling to get everyone moved off Windows 7. It's a complete non-story.

beggars_bush

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Probably before the election after next anyway.
They made a mistake overlooking him after Enda, I would have thought of him as the natural successor then.

Another FG political dynasty
FG knew another non Dublin based leader would be harmful

An Ciarraioch

Soulsun wrote: »

When is the election likely to be called folks?

Probably Monday - this was rumoured to be the only obstacle.

markodaly

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

People pointing to these minor problems in government.

4.8% unemployment
Live register at 12 year pre crash low
Budget surplus
Large employment growth
Growing population
Reversed mass emigration


Now let us go back to how Fianna Fáil left the country in 2010...unable to borrow a cent from anyone to just keep the country running

Ireland's finance minister to push for EU, IMF bailout

I think distinction needs to be made between nagging complaints and the absolute trauma this country was left in 2010 - a busted country, it's independence about to be taken away for inability to be able to be able to run it's affairs.

A bit of perspective and reflection needed.

This...

We are very quick to forget how bad the siutation was in 2011.
Does that mean FG should get an A+ for their tenure over the past 4 years? Not really, they did some good things (Brexit, Ecnonomy, Employment) and some bad things (Housing is an issue, Health is always an issue, Lack of vision)

The big issues in Ireland, as I have said, are issues we in soceity have to tackle. If you honestly think voting out FG and Leo and voting in FF or SF or whomever is really going to fix the fundamental issues affecting our society, you are dreaming, stupid or both.

Irish politics has been about giving the government a kicking because it feels good and is an emotional response rather than a rational one.
We vote for someone else and give them a kicking next time out, rinse and repear, yet we do not actually go after the fundamental issues in our society.

I have mentioned many times, the issues is US. Unless we are preparted to reform and change ourselves then the same problems will be with us next year, next decade and so on.

People question as to why FF and FG swap power all the time, its because that is our mirror image politically.

FG see themselves are better managers and administrators of government and the overall economy. They try to be more fiscally prudent but the mechanics of the Public Service and the need to be liked makes this very difficult. FG see their job as managers, not visionaries.

FF know the system better and are better 'cute whores', so instead of trying big reforms or big initatives that shape our soceity for the better, they buy us off with goodies, taxes and handouts. Economy crashes so we start again...with FG

Bishop of hope

Looks like the trolley crisis may have caused a casualty.
This seems, to be a very unfortunate incident.
https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/health/507488/man-found-dead-with-suspected-broken-neck-beside-his-hospital-trolley-at-uhl.html

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

FF will be back, and back because of FGs ineptitude and arrogance.

FF have been the defacto party of government for about 90 years. They are one of the most succesful political parties not only in Europe but the world. Their record for winning power is extraordinary.

The fact that FF are likely to be in government next time out is not FG's fault. FG have had 9 years in power, the longest streach in their history. Indeed one can look at why no other opposition party has managed to move FF on. Why has SF regressed for example? Why is far left politics with PBP et al are a busted flush?

If people are unhappy with FG, there are many other parties out there than FF to vote for, yet if they vote for FF its FG's fault, not the fact that SF,Labour,PBP,Solidarity,Greens are passed up by the exact same voter?

Very very odd logic.

Hotblack Desiato

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Just watching Simon Coveney on the television giving his press conference on the north.

He's a very impressive politician well in tune with his brief.

Wasn't very impressive or competent in 2018 when he suggested the abortion legislation should need a two-thirds majority to pass. He should have known that that was unconstitutional. Pretty embarrassing for any politician never mind the Tanaiste.