General Irish Government discussion thread [See Post 1805]

Itssoeasy

Phoebas wrote: »

I think FG will be pushing the point that we're on the right trajectory even if major problems remain .

They're in danger of alienating people if the push the 'FF destroyed the country' line too hard, but at the end of the day most people vote thinking about what's in their own economic best interest and FG do have a strong story on that front.

It'll all come down to how much FF are forgiven.

I'm no disagreeing that FG will push that point, but I was asking how much traction will it get amongst voters that either don't normally vote FG or the voter who would float between FF and FG but isn't tied to either one.

I agree that message worked in the last election but we are nearly four years further down the road from the FF decimation in 2011. So, FG If they want to get another go at running the country as you say need to not hammer that point.

Well that's the message FG like to give is that they leave the country is sound financial shape and FF end up messing it up to so degree. I think myself it's only of limited benefit. And anyway FF can point to the Celtic tiger and how they drove it on.

Well FF have been in opposition for nearly nine years now and that a long time for them. The question is have the voters forgiven FF enough yet. I think the last election was a case of FF just getting the ship back on an even keel.

Anyway regardless I can't wait for the election then the counting. That's what I really like and the tallies and the transfers and how they fall.

PopePalpatine

is_that_so wrote: »

Meath West will be interesting with FF and FG getting two and then there's what happens with Tobin v SF. Will split that vote and both may lose out. FG might fancy they can get a second or will a Green emerge?

I'd say Toibin will scrape in on transfers, on top of his stance on abortion which should position him as a Peter Casey-style lightning rod for those disgruntled at political correctness, he's one of the foremost supporters of reopening the old train line to Navan, and for increased funding at Navan Hospital.

is_that_so

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'd say Toibin will scrape in on transfers, on top of his stance on abortion which should position him as a Peter Casey-style lightning rod for those disgruntled at political correctness, he's one of the foremost supporters of reopening the old train line to Navan, and for increased funding at Navan Hospital.

Who's going to transfer to him? A fair bit of his vote is likely to be a SF vote, which will split that vote. That leaves them both scrambling to be even in the mix. In a 4 or 5 seater he might have a chance but with three it's a huge challenge, given how high the FPVs could be.

Sierra Oscar

10000maniacs wrote: »

The gloves are off now this morning. RTE are hitting Fianna Fail with "You put the country into receivership in 2010" line. And it's virtually impossible for FF to respond to that. They need to come up with better answers to that than "It was a global event".

Fine Gael ran that line throughout 2016. It wasn't all that effective as the results show and it will be even less effective now.

They will need a better campaign strategy or else they are sunk before the election has even been called.

markodaly

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Fine Gael ran that line throughout 2016. It wasn't all that effective as the results show and it will be even less effective now.

They will need a better campaign strategy or else they are sunk before the election has even been called.

A better line of questioning would be, why did FF stand aside and support a FG government for 4 years, while health and housing have continued to be problems.

If FF bang the drums about the state of the country and the 'crisis' in both housing and health, then they are just as culpable in many ways, as they supported the government since 2016 and let it continue along.

FG, SF, Labour, the Greens and of course the media are going to be stating this fact over and over again, and FF have very little comeback, apart from Breixt to bat it away.

Kermit.de.frog

Varadkar cancelled meeting of ministers and brought forward cabinet meeting to 9 am.

Looks like he is going to the park this morning.

seamus

markodaly wrote: »

If FF bang the drums about the state of the country and the 'crisis' in both housing and health, then they are just as culpable in many ways, as they supported the government since 2016 and let it continue along.

You and I rarely see eye to eye on anything, but this is bang on the money.

If the Greens can be pilloried for supporting the last FF government and Labour get crucified for supporting the FG government, then there's no good reason why FF can't take equal responsibility for supporting the FG government.

Anything FF might blame on FG can be responded to with, "You allowed this to happen".

tayto lover

seamus wrote: »

You and I rarely see eye to eye on anything, but this is bang on the money.

If the Greens can be pilloried for supporting the last FF government and Labour get crucified for supporting the FG government, then there's no good reason why FF can't take equal responsibility for supporting the FG government.

Anything FF might blame on FG can be responded to with, "You allowed this to happen".

Just like FG stood and watched FF during their last term in Govt before the collapse and complained after every budget that they didn’t give enough away.

They are all culpable and similar.
We have a very poor choice in this country.

Podge_irl

tayto lover wrote: »

Just like FG stood and watched FF during their last term in Govt before the collapse and complained after every budget that they didn’t give enough away.

They are all culpable and similar.
We have a very poor choice in this country.

FG adopted a "We should probably try and chill things a bit as we are in danger of overheating our economy" approach to the 2002 general election and were hammered for it.

We have poor choices because we make poor choices.

Bishop of hope

tayto lover wrote: »

Just like FG stood and watched FF during their last term in Govt before the collapse and complained after every budget that they didn’t give enough away.

They are all culpable and similar.
We have a very poor choice in this country.

That's what opposition does TL.
We got roads and houses, expensive roads and expensive houses.
We should have gotten a national children's hospital then and a far bigger share of social housing and the health service throughout FFs Govt got worse and worse too.
What did FF do in reality with a rampant economy, how can they be trusted in a shaky one?

L1011

Boxer Moran saying he intends to run as an Independent but may then sit with IA again is unlikely to convince even the dimmest voter surely?

He obviously realises that Ross (at least) is toxic and doesn't want his name associated with him; but this isn't the way to do it.

Water John

Once an election starts it runs in the, here and now. Greens will rise undoubtedly, it's a question of whether votes and transfers, convert into how many seats. I don't see Lb rising a lot as they have been largely invisible. On polls SF should go back on seats, so too should Independents of various hues.
Both FG and FF could gain seats as we revert more to more mainstream party politics.

L1011

Varadkar posters being put up already...

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1217033067405115393

tayto lover

Water John wrote: »

Once an election starts it runs in the, here and now. Greens will rise undoubtedly, it's a question of whether votes and transfers, convert into how many seats. I don't see Lb rising a lot as they have been largely invisible. On polls SF should go back on seats, so too should Independents of various hues.
Both FG and FF could gain seats as we revert more to more mainstream party politics.

If the Greens rise ( I hope not) then we can expect serious tax increases.
They’re a mad lot for rising our taxes are the Greens.

Water John

Letting the people know before telling the President or Dail?

tayto lover

Bishop of hope wrote: »

That's what opposition does TL.
We got roads and houses, expensive roads and expensive houses.
We should have gotten a national children's hospital then and a far bigger share of social housing and the health service throughout FFs Govt got worse and worse too.
What did FF do in reality with a rampant economy, how can they be trusted in a shaky one?

It’s like the burglar alarm didn’t go off when your house was being broken into.
My problem is that I have really no party to vote for because I don’t trust any of them.

hotmail.com

8th of Feb, a Saturday!

Cork Boy 53

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Varadkar cancelled meeting of ministers and brought forward cabinet meeting to 9 am.

Looks like he is going to the park this morning.

Speculation now that the election will be held on 8th Feb which will be a Saturday. If that is confirmed it would be the first ever GE on that day of the week.

markodaly

seamus wrote: »

You and I rarely see eye to eye on anything, but this is bang on the money.

If the Greens can be pilloried for supporting the last FF government and Labour get crucified for supporting the FG government, then there's no good reason why FF can't take equal responsibility for supporting the FG government.

Anything FF might blame on FG can be responded to with, "You allowed this to happen".

Yes, we will see how the electorate views this over a campaign.

FF thought they had a hand on power without the responsibility that comes with it, but this theory will be tested over the coming weeks.

tayto lover

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Speculation now that the election will be held on 8th Feb which will be a Saturday. If that is confirmed it would be the first ever GE on that day of the week.

Won’t be time for new voters to register.

markodaly

tayto lover wrote: »

Just like FG stood and watched FF during their last term in Govt before the collapse and complained after every budget that they didn’t give enough away.

They are all culpable and similar.
We have a very poor choice in this country.

This isn't true. Go back to the General Election of 2002.
It is we the Irish people that voted for and backed give away budgets.

tayto lover

markodaly wrote: »

This isn't true. Go back to the General Election of 2002.
It is we the Irish people that voted for and backed give away budgets.

What did they do in 02?

cherryghost

Is it wise to have an election so close to supposed Brexit? Will there be influence based on this?

Water John

Brexit is over, nothing much actually happens on the 31st Jan.

corcaigh07

Is there enough time for voters to process change of address/voting region?

My vote is in Dublin but moved to West Cork recently.

seamus

Water John wrote: »

Brexit is over, nothing much actually happens on the 31st Jan.

Humans are guided by milestones though. The same reason why diets start on Mondays and people make New Year's resolutions.

Even if Brexit is done deal today, people won't accept it as "final" until the time passes.

Leo might be hoping that talk about Brexit, and FG's admittedly laudable handling of it, will dominate the headlines for two weeks leading up to the GE and drown out everything else.

Larbre34

corcaigh07 wrote: »

Is there enough time for voters to process change of address/voting region?

My vote is in Dublin but moved to West Cork recently.

No.

tayto lover

seamus wrote: »

Humans are guided by milestones though. The same reason why diets start on Mondays and people make New Year's resolutions.

Even if Brexit is done deal today, people won't accept it as "final" until the time passes.

Leo might be hoping that talk about Brexit, and FG's admittedly laudable handling of it, will dominate the headlines for two weeks leading up to the GE and drown out everything else.

If that’s what he’s relying on then after 10 years in power then it’s sad.
I’d say he has a few other ideas.

Larbre34

He's out of his tiny mind calling it for a home 6 nations Saturday. 52,000 FG voters out on the rip, having not given a hoot about fitting in time to vote, mostly of Kate O'Connell and MMoC and Leo himself!!

Tulip.

markodaly

tayto lover wrote: »

What did they do in 02?

Who are they?
It's obvious you do not remember, nor care.