'Terminator' fans triggered by latest Hollywood SJW effort

gmisk

professore wrote: »

The market prefers male led films clearly then ....

Or the "market" isnt being given much choice?

professore

I want Hollywood to make better films, the vast majority of them are tripe. I don't care if they are male, female or aliens.

kunst nugget

gmisk wrote: »

Tom Hardy.....between his voice as Bane and the one he seems to be doing in Venom....a woman might do a better job

I think Bane with the welsh accent he had in Locke would have been great.

professore

gmisk wrote: »

Or the "market" isnt being given much choice?

I agree with you actually. I rarely watch films anymore, except if I go to the cinema with my wife and/or kids. Most of them are poor with predictable plots IMO.

gmisk

professore wrote: »

I agree with you actually. I rarely watch films anymore, except if I go to the cinema with my wife and/or kids. Most of them are poor with predictable plots IMO.

Cool


I go to the cinema a lot but I dont have any kids and based in Dublin so lots of options film and cinema wise, I know my folks have very few options in cinemas near them bar the usual megaplex stuff.

There have been some brilliant films released this year but they get squeezed out of cinemas fairly rapidly in general if they get in at all.

batgoat

The Highwayman wrote: »

It will fail miserably, just like Ghost Busters and Ocean's 8. And then we get to watch the autistic screeching of the feminist, fun times.

I think it has potential but overall I think it'll fail, nothing to do with the female leads.(The Terminator is male btw) I don't think that really matters, there hasn't been a decent Terminator film since number 2. Nothing to do with evil feminists, plenty of male leads. Why exactly are you using 'autistic' as an insult btw? It's a tad nasty to say the least.

The Terminator genre is most likely worn out although the return of Linda Hamilton might actually offer a return to the older films. Regardless, this is a single promotional photos that has pissed off idiots. :rolleyes:

Ocean's 8 grossed 275 million dollars globally on a budget of 70. The reviews were about on par with Ocean's 12. How did it fail miserably? Given the box office earnings, there would be no trouble getting backing for a sequel. :pac: I liked Ghostbusters although it was overly long but yep it bombed overall. It's a single film though, your other example got on great in all respects.

Star Bingo

Don’t forget amidst all the furore they were telling us Cyberdyne Sytems model T-1000 was an upgrade on Ahnolds Obselete arse as long as 27yr ago



That movie pretty much defined gender fluid. As the future; so don’t have a meltdown all this yrs later

batgoat

Star Bingo wrote: »

Don’t forget amidst all the furore they were telling us Cyberdyne Sytems model T-1000 was an upgrade on Ahnolds Obselete arse as long as 17yr ago



That movie pretty much defined gender fluid. As the future; so don’t have a meltdown all this yrs later

Plus the Terminator tv show was all about Sarah Connor and was better than the last 3 Terminator films. Actually was going a pretty interesting direction when it got axed. Would probably be viewed as an evil feminist show now or something.... Buffy would have provoked complete outrage from alt right types etc if it came out now I'm guessing.

FunLover18

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, we do. If anything, I'd suggest that now, more than ever before, men need to see some strong male rolemodels which fit into this modern world. After all, all our previous rolemodels would be considered "toxic". Dirty Harry? Rambo?

Really? Look at all the big releases this year and tell there isn't a massive gender bias. Black Panther, Avengers, Deadpool 2, Mission: Impossible, Jurassic World, Solo, Venom, Rampage, The Meg, Equilizer 2, Aquaman. Any man who thinks there needs to be more strong male role models is kidding themselves.

Deleted User wrote: »

I love that phrase "people of color"... and I'm curious how they're underrepresented in movies? In the US, black people or any non-white ethnic group are definitely minorities in comparison with white people. So, it would stand to reason that there would be less movies geared towards them, and yet, I can think of quite a few black actors/actresses over the last 20 years. Not the same numbers as white actors/actresses but, again, they're a minority in comparison. It's like complaining there aren't enough successful white rappers... when black rappers are clearly in the majority (not that I really know much about rap music, but we could look at Soul, R&B etc for similar).

And as for women, i do wonder at the requirements for a woman's presence to register in a movie... I've seen heaps of movies in the last decade with women in leading roles, easily as much as I've seen males in leading roles.

When people talk about representation they're not talking in relation to population. They exist in the world they should exist in the world of film. Apologies if I'm mistaken but you seem to be suggesting that movies with Asian or black leads would therefore automatically be geared towards the Asian or Black market and that's just not the case. Asian and Black people have been watching and enjoying movies about white people for years. Beverly Hills Cop wasn't geared towards black people, Black Panther a movie set in Africa featuring a majority Black cast made over a billion dollars, that's not just a black audience going to see it. The idea that representation in Hollywood has to be reprentative of the real world is problematic because it implies people can't relate to characters who don't share their skin colour or genitalia.

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

Well that isnt the norm.


Study from 2015
secondary roles, females are underrepresented, comprising 29% of major characters and 30% of all speaking characters.


Study from 2017
Despite hits including Wonder Woman and Girls Trip, out of the 100 highest-grossing films of the year, just 24% were led by women

And the lowest grossing films?

There was minor improvement in the representation of women of color. The share of black female characters rose two percentage points to 16% thanks to hits like Girls Trip, and Latinas increased from 3% to 7%. The share of Asian women rose from 6% to 7%.

Again... minorities. So, it would stand to reason that they would be less represented that the majority racial group, ie. White people.

So. Let me ask you whether black male actors face the same problems as black female actresses? Is this considered to be a racial issue or a gender issue?

So things are seemingly improving when it comes to female representation in film but there are a lot more male led films it is just a fact.

But what genres of movies are they considering? I mean, sure... if you're talking about "Saving private Ryan" or "Braveheart", the numbers of male actors will far outnumber the amount of female actors because women weren't involved in wars in comparative numbers. Typically, the big budget or epic movies relate to human conflict, and men are going to be far more heavily represented there.

And there are more male led movies because traditionally action movies had male leads. Society is changing to have women in these roles, but lets be honest here.... It's only relatively recent a factor that women have sought combat roles in the military, or the numbers of women seeking to work in the more dangerous areas of police-work are a clear minority compared to those who chose the safer options. When we consider the mainstay of high budget movies, women wouldn't have represented the people actually doing to roles...

FunLover18

FunLover18 wrote: »

Really? Look at all the big releases this year and tell there isn't a massive gender bias. Black Panther, Avengers, Deadpool 2, Mission: Impossible, Jurassic World, Solo, Venom, Rampage, The Meg, Equilizer 2, Aquaman. Any man who thinks there needs to be more strong male role models is kidding themselves.

I think you're mixing strong with simply having male leads. I wouldn't consider most of those films to be good examples of male role models.

When people talk about representation they're not talking in relation to population. They exist in the world they should exist in the world of film. Apologies if I'm mistaken but you seem to be suggesting that movies with Asian or black leads would therefore automatically be geared towards the Asian or Black market and that's just not the case. Asian and Black people have been watching and enjoying movies about white people for years. Beverly Hills Cop wasn't geared towards black people, Black Panther a movie set in Africa featuring a majority Black cast made over a billion dollars, that's not just a black audience going to see it. The idea that representation in Hollywood has to be reprentative of the real world is problematic because it implies people can't relate to characters who don't share their skin colour or genitalia.

Actually, I'm considering that acting is an extremely competitive industry and the numbers of actors who become successful are a definite minority compared to those who don't. Hence the population reference, in that there would be more white people than black or asian people and competition not based on their race would be incredibly difficult. Regardless of their race, it's a competitive industry.

Star Bingo

batgoat wrote: »

Plus the Terminator tv show was all about Sarah Connor and was better than the last 3 Terminator films. Actually was going a pretty interesting direction when it got axed. Would probably be viewed as an evil feminist show now or something.... Buffy would have provoked complete outrage from alt right types etc if it came out now I'm guessing.

And they took it even further in Terminator 3 with the T-X being a very cunning broad

..ultimately though it does not matter, how refined a model they attempt manufacture because old trusty T-800 ahnold will always thwart whatever new concept they put in its path.

FunLover18

professore wrote: »

Is this really the case? Certain genres of film for sure (war and action particularly) but these have largely male audiences. Romcoms real life dramas and suchlike have a pretty even gender balance as far as I can see.[\QUOTE]

There are certain types of films where gender bias has to be allowed, war films where historically most wars were fought by men. But in terms of action films which tend to make the most money, it's not just men to going to see them. They feature mainly men and they're written mainly by men which has led to the assumption that they're enjoyed mainly be men. You can look at gmisk's post above which has a better breakdown of how roles in films are spread out across gender and race.

professore wrote: »

I said she showed mercy to the MAIN FEMALE BADDIE Doctor Poison who was going to destroy the world. She had no mercy or compassion for any of the male characters. In Hollywood male and female characters alike treat male baddies with no compassion but treat equally bad or worse female characters with compassion. This is equally as ridiculous as a stereotype. I haven't seen salt but reading the plot it is a BELIEVABLE film and I'd go see it. I loved the Americans TV series and the main characters were a husband and wife and their teenage daughter. Again it was brilliantly acted and had a great storyline. In that the main female was the more ruthless of the two main characters and my favourite of all of them.[\QUOTE]

Apologies, I misunderstood. My memory of Wonder Woman isn't strong enough that I'd be able to comment on that aspect. But I agree with you about The Americans, love that show and I love that it flips the dynamic whereby the husband is the one who allows his emotions to get in the way.

professore wrote: »

But a lot of these films are not "aimed at men about men" as such ... If you make a film about historical events, many more of them are going to involve men, as lets face it, most of history has been shaped by men. If there is a genuine film about some famous historical woman (Marie Curie or Granuaile for example - now there's a great film idea with a female lead) then I'm there.

If you make a human interest film, there are going to be more women in those roles. If you make a rom com there will be more women in it.

Many of these female only films are forced. How likely is it for a group of women to get together to plot a robbery like Oceans 8?

And ... both men and women generally prefer films with men in them. Men don't generally care much for all female films and both genders generally don't care for films aimed at the opposite gender.

Even I fall into the trap of making the assumption that movies about men are aimed at men. You're right of course and as above I agree about the historical aspect. I disagree with your latter point about people not enjoying movies heavily featuring the other gender. People go to see films for entertainment and ultimately that comes down to story and character. I went to Ocean's Eight because I enjoyed the previous Ocean's films and this was going to follow the exact same mould, which it did to its detriment. It's a poor film but only because it's not well written or directed.

I don't think you want to go down the "how likely is that" argument when it comes to Hollywood, we could here a while.

FunLover18

I messed up the quoting on that last post. The app is a mare for mutilple quoting replies, sorry about that.

TheDoc

All I take from the poster is Cameron isn’t doing his Terminator set in his vision of the future. Which has been screamed for for decades now.

As for the general consensus here. Meh. Sure will wait and see.

I’ve no issue in terms of gender casting or whatever but the furor that comes with everything now is getting tiring.

Seeing today all the stuff about Idris Elba and Bond. There’s so much baggage with everything. Everyone outraged. Everything fighting some cause or some injustice.

Just very tired of it all.

Junkyard Tom

As long as there are no Jewslims in it I'm okay.

MikeyTaylor

Is this a reboot, or a continuation?

Wibbs

batgoat wrote: »

Plus the Terminator tv show was all about Sarah Connor and was better than the last 3 Terminator films. Actually was going a pretty interesting direction when it got axed. Would probably be viewed as an evil feminist show now or something.... Buffy would have provoked complete outrage from alt right types etc if it came out now I'm guessing.

+1 on the Terminator TV show. Much better than the flics. I was about to say it would be unlikely Buffy would get static, but these days, with all the divisive wankery? Yeah, probably would. Then again in TV land where there's generally better quality of storytelling for the most part, there seems to be a much wider spread of women in main and "heroic" roles than previously and more than in cinema and they don't seem to get static as much as the cinema stuff? Though didn't the latest Star Trek get some?

Even in the cinema world it's nearly always reboots and sequels of long standing franchises that get it in the neck(the Trek TV show was also a "reboot" of a long standing franchise. Dr Who similarly). Outside an obvious element of "they've ruined my story!!!", I'd say it does appear to be more of a pandering exercise, especially if it's a crappy or lazily written character.

Venom

Wibbs wrote: »

+1 on the Terminator TV show. Much better than the flics. I was about to say it would be unlikely Buffy would get static, but these days, with all the divisive wankery? Yeah, probably would. Then again in TV land where there's generally better quality of storytelling for the most part, there seems to be a much wider spread of women in main and "heroic" roles than previously and more than in cinema and they don't seem to get static as much as the cinema stuff? Though didn't the latest Star Trek get some?

Even in the cinema world it's nearly always reboots and sequels of long standing franchises that get it in the neck(the Trek TV show was also a "reboot" of a long standing franchise. Dr Who similarly). Outside an obvious element of "they've ruined my story!!!", I'd say it does appear to be more of a pandering exercise, especially if it's a crappy or lazily written character.

Yeah, the Sarah Connor Chronicles was a damn good TV show with an amazing cast. It was sad to see it get pulled considering where the show was going plot-wise which was so much more interesting than anything Terminator movies have done from Judgement Day onwards.


The latest Trek show didn't click with me at all due to how grim dark they went, the tech not fitting in with previous shows and the shenanigans with the Klingon's.



As for Buffy, Batgoat is right that the show if it was aired today, would be seen as problematic by the usual outrage crowd who would be having a fit over the "lack of diversity" in the cast.

HappyAsLarE

The market sets the goddamn rules. The market for terminator is young men. This movie will flop.

The Rape of Lucretia

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

The market sets the goddamn rules. The market for terminator is young men. This movie will flop.

That is so sexist. The market is manipulated by what is presented to it. Present men as terminators with all aspects fine honed to appeal to young men, and of course the market for terminator is young men. But ditch the sexist agenda, make a movie oriented towards young women, and the market can be young women. Or young women and young men too. A bit of positive bias like this towards women is the first step to truly great cinema.

HappyAsLarE

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

That is so sexist. The market is manipulated by what is presented to it. Present men as terminators with all aspects fine honed to appeal to young men, and of course the market for terminator is young men. But ditch the sexist agenda, make a movie oriented towards young women, and the market can be young women. Or young women and young men too. A bit of positive bias like this towards women is the first step to truly great cinema.

I hope you don't take offence to this...but your post reads as a sarcastic parody. I can't decide if you are serious or not.

DickSwiveller Returns

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

I hope you don't take offence to this...but your post reads as a sarcastic parody. I can't decide if you are serious or not.

I note a hint of sarcasm in his post...

Capt'n Midnight

suicide_circus wrote: »

the only saving grace is that it's a sequel rather than a remake.

Nah, it's a "reboot"
Untitled Terminator Reboot (2019)


Anyway where are Lena Headey or Summer Glau ?

StinkyMunkey

Certain formulas work, and trying to fix something that isn't broken never works.

I've always been a fan of the terminator movies, some better than others. But the poster doesn't make me feel much excitement at all, it's more like I'm rolling my eyes to heaven.

Sarah Conner has always been a badass and I was glad to hear she was back. But the new terminator movie seems distinctly lacking in testosterone.

The roles should fit the story, not the story made to fit the roles.

Take Trinity from the matrix, easily one of the biggest badasses to hit the big screen. I watched the new ghostbusters movie, or I should say I tried and gave up. Like I said certain formulas just work, others don't.

Capt'n Midnight

Wibbs wrote: »

+1 on the Terminator TV show. Much better than the flics. I was about to say it would be unlikely Buffy would get static, but these days, with all the divisive wankery? Yeah, probably would. Then again in TV land where there's generally better quality of storytelling for the most part, there seems to be a much wider spread of women in main and "heroic" roles than previously and more than in cinema and they don't seem to get static as much as the cinema stuff? Though didn't the latest Star Trek get some?

Even in the cinema world it's nearly always reboots and sequels of long standing franchises that get it in the neck(the Trek TV show was also a "reboot" of a long standing franchise. Dr Who similarly). Outside an obvious element of "they've ruined my story!!!", I'd say it does appear to be more of a pandering exercise, especially if it's a crappy or lazily written character.

Don't get me started :mad:

Back in the 1970's most of the big pictures were original, nowadays it's the opposite.

Nowadays it's all reboots, sequels, and prequels,
For a new film you typically need to have an existing franchise with a huge fanbase, so TV series, Books, Video games,
There's also big budget cartoons, but with Pixar & Co. you pretty much know what you are getting.

And even then if it's a new films it'll probably use the "Save the cat" beat sheet or similar.

DickSwiveller Returns

wokeitis. It's infecting everything now.

squawker

think this has answered why I don't watch Hollywood movies anymore

what happened to originality?

Wibbs

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Don't get me started :mad:

Back in the 1970's most of the big pictures were original, nowadays it's the opposite.

Nowadays it's all reboots, sequels, and prequels,

Yeah Capt'n but in many ways the 1970's(and 80's) are to blame. Flics like Star Wars, Jaws, Close encounters, Superman, Indiana Jones and the like made money even Hollywood couldn't believe. And not just in box office. The merchandise and other spinoffs had the coin flying in. Hollywood wasn't ready for it. Famously the studio just gave away the merchandise rights to Lucas, figuring they'd not be worth much. His mate Spielberg realised this when he lost out on all the rubber sharks that were flying off the shelves when Jaws was a hit. Thinking there was huge money to be made the budgets got ever bigger and actors with pull long out of the studio contract system wanted and got cuts of the back end cash(I remember Brando being famous for getting a million quid per minute of screen time for a cameo in the first Superman). So Hollywood cut down on the number of flics they made and funnelled the money into fewer potential blockbusters.

That kinda cash spend then made them bloody cautious and wanting "sure things". With the blip in the nineties when Weinstein and others made millions on cheaper stuff(hence his dodgy behaviour was ignored) and the occasional left field low budget old style film making bank, Hollywood increasingly went for sure fire franchises for safety. And so here we are today, with 200 million quid flics being greenlit only if they're on what they think is solid ground to make it back. The low(er) budget stuff has gone to TV, as has much of the more inventive and creative talent in that mad thing called decent storytelling. The aforementioned latest Star Trek outing, which has come in for criticism - and I can see why in some cases - had IMHO far better pacing, plotting and story than in most episodes than something like the last Star Wars film. I genuinely can't believe how bad that was and after a few views it got ever worse(that's leaving out any of the "issues" that some are ranting about. It was just really badly written). And an episode, hell the entire series probably wouldn't have covered the catering budget for a behemoth like a Star Wars flic.

SirLemonhead

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Nah, it's a "reboot"
Untitled Terminator Reboot (2019)


Anyway where are Lena Headey or Summer Glau ?

Back on the thankfully cancelled awful TV show, where they belong

Edit: I had to look up this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5bQg8GT_XA

I forgot how bad the show was. How long was she hiding there for? How many people went to the toilet on her in the meantime?! The terrible acting!

Grayson

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

The market sets the goddamn rules. The market for terminator is young men. This movie will flop.

Did you ever think it's because all the leads are macho men?

Women like seeing movies with action. And they like seeing women in movies. (Obviously I don't want to over generalise but you get my point).
A decent action movie with a good female lead will do well. Men will watch it and so will women.

A mediocre one won't do well no matter who's in in. (Unless it's a transformers movie. I have seriously no idea how they made so many and how they did that well)

Venom

SirLemonhead wrote: »

Back on the thankfully cancelled awful TV show, where they belong

Edit: I had to look up this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5bQg8GT_XA

I forgot how bad the show was. How long was she hiding there for? How many people went to the toilet on her in the meantime?! The terrible acting!

There were some great scenes as well tho.