Bus Eireann - is this normal?

strandroad

Deleted User wrote: »

I think some are making a big issue where there isn’t one. A couple of people changing from one bus to another with all passengers reaching their destination on time. Where is the problem??

And how do you know exactly that all passengers reach their destination on time? On a multi leg journey with tricks like these you can easily miss your connections. Timetables are there for a reason and if the provider cannot commit to them they shouldn't have them licensed.

PlaneSpeeking

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

SERIOUSLY????

You run a service, you don't get a chance to pick and choose when you provide said service.

But, they get myself and other passengers to our destination on time, with the very minor inconvenience of getting off one bus and onto another.

SERIOUSLY!!

devnull

Deleted User wrote: »

I think some are making a big issue where there isn’t one. A couple of people changing from one bus to another with all passengers reaching their destination on time. Where is the problem??

By your own admission, in these situations the bus actually going to the airport has to wait for the bus that is supposed to be going to the airport to arrive and it could take 5 minutes for people to get on one bus, get off another, move their heavy airport bound luggage, open both luggage doors, get seated, all of that means they will get to the airport later than they would have if the Bus went directly there.

What if bus that is not going to the airport runs late? What if the bus that is going to the airport runs late? It means that one set of passengers is going to have to wait for a bus when they would not have to have done if the bus went directly to the airport rather than terminating short or having to wait for another bus to connect into it.

I care about the way services are delivered to customers and how they are treated, that's why I have a problem with it, if you don't care about that fair enough but if that kind of attitude exists within the company and its staff then there is little wonder that people have a negative view of the company.

devnull

If BE were so concerned about wastage of buses going to the airport empty they could just terminate every bus at the city centre and then get people to take the 747 to the airport. But they don't do they. Why? Because they want their cake and eat it and run when they want to but not when they don't.

Unfortunately licenses don't work like that, you either run the bus or you don't. You don't choose to run it when you feel like it and not when you don't.

Deleted User wrote: »

But, they get myself and other passengers to our destination on time, with the very minor inconvenience of getting off one bus and onto another.

SERIOUSLY!!

Or alternatively they could not inconvenience them at all?

You're basically saying is a that the self operational convenience of a publicly owned public transport service set up to serve the public, must come before the operation of the public timetable used by the public that the public company were set-up to serve?

As I said before transferring buses will always slow things down, as will connections because connections run late and people who may not be mobile with heavy suitcases cannot just teleport from one bus to another. It will always be slower than a direct bus where this does not happen, that is just common sense.

PlaneSpeeking

Deleted User wrote: »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

SERIOUSLY????

You run a service, you don't get a chance to pick and choose when you provide said service.

But, they get myself and other passengers to our destination on time, with the very minor inconvenience of getting off one bus and onto another.

SERIOUSLY!!

You do realise we tend to attract one or two tourists to our fair land ?

You're happy to leave them at the mercy of Donal who wants to bugger off early to watch the hurling??? For shame.

devnull

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

You do realise we tend to attract one or two tourists to our fair land ?

You're happy to leave them at the mercy of Donal who wants to bugger off early to watch the hurling??? For shame.

Unfortunately this is what is wrong with a lot of the public sector in this country. In theory the idea of publicly owned companies and public sector agencies is that they will put the public before any private or self interests and when that works properly like it does in other countries it really is excellent.

The problem is in practice in Ireland is that often is not the case since the companies and the staff within them see the public as somewhat of an inconvenience and view it is acceptable to cause the same people inconvenience if it will make the life of themselves easier, which kind of contradicts the whole reason they were set up.

strandroad

Deleted User wrote: »

But, they get myself and other passengers to our destination on time, with the very minor inconvenience of getting off one bus and onto another.

SERIOUSLY!!

They don't get you and other passengers there on time, this statement is demonstrably untrue. You had to switch, or wait and switch, which by definition gets you there late in relation to the original ETA.

What you really mean is that you personally didn't mind being late and inconvenienced. Whether other passengers mind you have no idea, you just assume everyone feels as you do.

Stephen15

The last thing I will say on this thread is that to me it seems like a complete waste of fuel to run an empty coach to the airport for only one passenger especially for a company that was meant to be on the verge of insolvency only 18 months ago. I think this is a management cost saving strategy rather than a case of the driver just being lazy.

BowWow

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

BTW - I'm her father not her mother!

Sorry

BowWow

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Your counter theory is nonsense.

Thank you for your opinion.

PlaneSpeeking

Stephen15 wrote: »

The last thing I will say on this thread is that to me it seems like a complete waste of fuel to run an empty coach to the airport for only one passenger especially for a company that was meant to be on the verge of insolvency only 18 months ago. I think this is a management cost saving strategy rather than a case of the driver just being lazy.

Utterly irrelevant if you've a kid on board needing to go to the destination shown on the front of the bus.

iamwhoiam

Stephen15 wrote: »

The last thing I will say on this thread is that to me it seems like a complete waste of fuel to run an empty coach to the airport for only one passenger especially for a company that was meant to be on the verge of insolvency only 18 months ago. I think this is a management cost saving strategy rather than a case of the driver just being lazy.

It doesnt matter how many on a bus it surely has to go to its final destination as it says on the bus . Its like saying a train should stop in Kildare as there are only two people going to Dublin . Ridiculous nonsense

Yer Da sells Avon

devnull wrote: »

The problem is in practice in Ireland is that often is not the case since the companies and the staff within them see the public as somewhat of an inconvenience and view it is acceptable to cause the same people inconvenience if it will make the life of themselves easier, which kind of contradicts the whole reason they were set up.

Anyone in Dublin who uses the 46A or 145 will see examples of this with monotonous regularity. It's deemed 'inconvenient' for the staff to finish their shifts at the terminus - so the bus pulls in at Donnybrook church, the driver hops out, throws their bag over their shoulder and strolls off, sometimes (only sometimes) informing the passengers that another driver will be along soon. The passengers sit there for what feels like an eternity, being overtaken by other buses, waiting for the new driver to arrive, adjust their mirrors, make their seat comfortable, etc.

A relatively minor thing, but a great way of sticking two fingers up at your customers.

strandroad

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Anyone in Dublin who uses the 46A or 145 will see examples of this with monotonous regularity. It's deemed 'inconvenient' for the staff to finish their shifts at the terminus - so the bus pulls in at Donnybrook church, the driver hops out, throws their bag over their shoulder and strolls off, sometimes (only sometimes) informing the passengers that another driver will be along soon. The passengers sit there for what feels like an eternity, being overtaken by other buses, waiting for the new driver to arrive, adjust their mirrors, make their seat comfortable, etc.

A relatively minor thing, but a great way of sticking two fingers up at your customers.

Oh heavens yes. You gave me a deja vu
Who cares about a busload of passengers vs one driver's convenience. Surely not DublinBus.
Another good one to explain to any tourists on board!

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

The last thing I will say on this thread is that to me it seems like a complete waste of fuel to run an empty coach to the airport for only one passenger especially for a company that was meant to be on the verge of insolvency only 18 months ago. I think this is a management cost saving strategy rather than a case of the driver just being lazy.

If the company feels that there is no demand for a service to go to Dublin Airport and they do not want to service this stop on that departure then they are need to contact the NTA to request that their license is changed to terminate the service at Busaras and do so from that point forward.

They haven't done so as they appear to be trying to pick and choose when they operate services, it should be simply, if the timetable says the service is operated you do, if it doesn't you don't. It's black and white really.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

But, they get myself and other passengers to our destination on time, with the very minor inconvenience of getting off one bus and onto another.

SERIOUSLY!!

but they don't get the others on the other bus which the passengers would be connecting to, to the airport on time. they only get the passengers off the terminating bus, to the airport on time.
the bus is licenced and timetabled to go to the airport and return. therefore it must go to the airport. it has to go to the airport. it didn't go to the airport like it was supposed to.

PlaneSpeeking

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

You do realise we tend to attract one or two tourists to our fair land ?

You're happy to leave them at the mercy of Donal who wants to bugger off early to watch the hurling??? For shame.

You’re ignoring the fact that Donal sees any transferring passengers safely onto the next bus (bar OPs daughter who didn’t hear the instructions until too late) I think that the next bus OPs daughter was advised of was the next scheduled one, not the one that had just left. It seems to have been a total misunderstanding.

BowWow

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that the people doubting this story have ever used public transport in this country.

Previously spent 30 years on the road driving a car for a living. Now acting as a special courier and use Dublin Bus several times a week. Use Bus Eireann a couple of times a week. Use train weekly. Use private coaches weekly. Have become impressed with Public Transport over the last few years - Not impressed with mass movement of people at rush hours.
Still think there are more facts to this.....

strandroad

BowWow wrote: »

Previously spent 30 years on the road driving a car for a living. Now acting as a special courier and use Dublin Bus several times a week. Use Bus Eireann a couple of times a week. Use train weekly. Use private coaches weekly. Have become impressed with Public Transport over the last few years - Not impressed with mass movement of people at rush hours.
Still think there are more facts to this.....

Try living in continental Europe for a few years and tell us if you're still impressed with our transport? I just think we have such extremely low standards here. After you experience a functioning system or two going back is quite an experience!

end of the road

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Anyone in Dublin who uses the 46A or 145 will see examples of this with monotonous regularity. It's deemed 'inconvenient' for the staff to finish their shifts at the terminus - so the bus pulls in at Donnybrook church, the driver hops out, throws their bag over their shoulder and strolls off, sometimes (only sometimes) informing the passengers that another driver will be along soon. The passengers sit there for what feels like an eternity, being overtaken by other buses, waiting for the new driver to arrive, adjust their mirrors, make their seat comfortable, etc.

A relatively minor thing, but a great way of sticking two fingers up at your customers.

i believe such matters aren't unique to dublin bus. sometimes it's not practical for a driver to end their shift at the depot as doing so may have them over their legal driving hours. if possible then the rosters should try and make it more possible for shifts to finish at the depot but sometimes dispite best efforts it's not possible.
it goes without saying that they should inform people if there is a change of drivers.

Deleted User wrote: »

You’re ignoring the fact that Donal sees any transferring passengers safely onto the next bus (bar OPs daughter who didn’t hear the instructions until too late) I think that the next bus OPs daughter was advised of was the next scheduled one, not the one that had just left. It seems to have been a total misunderstanding.

ultimately that doesn't matter as the bus is obligated by it's licence to go to the airport. it must go to the airport, it has to go to the airport, it didn't go to the airport like it is supposed to. as i said i see what you are saying but when a bus is supposed to go somewhere it must go.

BowWow

Stephen15 wrote: »

The last thing I will say on this thread is that to me it seems like a complete waste of fuel to run an empty coach to the airport for only one passenger especially for a company that was meant to be on the verge of insolvency only 18 months ago. I think this is a management cost saving strategy rather than a case of the driver just being lazy.

Not if an empty bus is needed at the airport to start a run...

I flew back from Malaga on an Aer Lingus flight in April. There were 16 passengers on the plane - not economic but part of the bigger picture. (Only thing annoyed me was I'd paid for a specific seat!)

Wishbone Ash

Stephen15 wrote: »

The last thing I will say on this thread is that to me it seems like a complete waste of fuel to run an empty coach to the airport for only one passenger especially for a company that was meant to be on the verge of insolvency only 18 months ago. I think this is a management cost saving strategy rather than a case of the driver just being lazy.

If it's a management strategy, what's to stop them adding a note to the timetable to that effect to let passengers know. Also why wouldn't the driver say that to passengers rather than merely saying he's not going to the airport with one passenger? Why would a passenger be directed to a bus which was not leaving for another hour?

That just doesn't strike me as a management strategy.I think if it was, it would be documented somewhere to let passengers know. Perhaps, as others have said, it would contravene their licence obligations.

devnull

I've just read the licensing guidelines which state:

Licensed operators must comply fully with the terms and conditions of their licences. In particular, licensed operators will be expected to operate all of the services specified in their licences and to operate them in accordance with the specified timetable and any conditions attached to the licence.

The Authority may monitor any public bus services to ensure compliance with the PTR Act 2009 and with the terms and conditions of individual licences. The Authority will investigate any written complaints received in relation to the operation of licensed services. In the event that the Authority requires evidence of compliance, such evidence shall be forwarded or otherwise presented to the Authority in accordance with any schedule devised by the Authority.

Where breaches of licensing terms are identified, appropriate action, including written warnings seeking remedy of noncompliance, prosecution or revocation of the licence in question, may be considered.

So therefore OP, I'd raise this to the NTA with as much details as possible as it seems that they can apply sanctions to Bus Eireann for this kind of situation as to me at least, what has been described in your situation seems to be covered by the above highlighted text.

Also if for example there is one operator on a corridor that does not comply with regulations and if another one does, then the complaint operator is put at a commercial disadvantage which is completely unfair since it isn't a level playing field.

BowWow

strandroad wrote: »

Try living in continental Europe for a few years and tell us if you're still impressed with our transport?

I totally accept that. And I do not travel at rush hour.

(IMO less or no Free Travel Passes on Public Transport would reform it for the paying public - but's that's a debate for elsewhere and not relevant to this thread).

Grab All Association

Picturing the OP daughter as the stereotypical Hollister wearing Irish teenage girl small <5ft 4 skinny probably carrying a bag iphone pocket money etc. It sure is not the safest place for a teenager to be stuck at for an hour. From experience on the X12 theres a lot of skangers, beggars and thiefs using that bus station who would have no hesitations in mugging the girl.

Thefts have even happened on the buses. X12 had to pull over and get Gardai one day becauae two skangers stole a Chinese tourists phone, wallet etc. Tbf the driver in this case did the right thing. He couldn't have prevented this happening as he can't turn these passholders away getting on. He got Gardai who arrested them.

AndrewJRenko

Del2005 wrote: »

The OP admits that their child was most likely using earphones so could have missed the details of the bus change being announced over the PA.

The same would apply to a deaf passenger. Or a non-English speaking passenger. Or a sleeping passenger. Or a passenger with early stage Dementia. Or to some passengers with intellectual disabilities.

You don't get out of your responsibility to passengers by making a garbled announcement over a €100 PA system which is fairly difficult to hear and understand at the best of times.

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

If you get on at one point and the service is going to that route and you buy a ticket - at any indeterminate point in the journey they cannot decide to stop and chuck you off.

This is basic service - how can anyone aside from transport union shills defend this????

What's it got to do with unions? Did any union rep/official make any statement or comment on this?

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Anyone in Dublin who uses the 46A or 145 will see examples of this with monotonous regularity. It's deemed 'inconvenient' for the staff to finish their shifts at the terminus - so the bus pulls in at Donnybrook church, the driver hops out, throws their bag over their shoulder and strolls off, sometimes (only sometimes) informing the passengers that another driver will be along soon. The passengers sit there for what feels like an eternity, being overtaken by other buses, waiting for the new driver to arrive, adjust their mirrors, make their seat comfortable, etc.

A relatively minor thing, but a great way of sticking two fingers up at your customers.

If the driver doesn't finish his shift at the garage, he has less productive hours, because he needs to build in time to return to the garage without passengers on board. Starting/finishing at the garage presumably maximises productivity. There's no excuse not to communicate the situation to passengers and to minimise the delays, but this is a perfectly sensible measure.

Nomis21

I am a retired bus driver of 40 years experience. I find the bus driver's attitude very poor indeed and this would be a disciplinary matter. To curtail a journey the driver would need to have a totally empty bus. If the bus even had one passenger he would have to undertake the journey unless an inspector authorised him to curtail and in that event the inspector would assist the passenger. For the driver to take it on himself to curtail the journey and then not assist a minor with a transfer would be a serious breach of company policy. You need to report this.

Kyleboy

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Anyone in Dublin who uses the 46A or 145 will see examples of this with monotonous regularity. It's deemed 'inconvenient' for the staff to finish their shifts at the terminus - so the bus pulls in at Donnybrook church, the driver hops out, throws their bag over their shoulder and strolls off, sometimes (only sometimes) informing the passengers that another driver will be along soon. The passengers sit there for what feels like an eternity, being overtaken by other buses, waiting for the new driver to arrive, adjust their mirrors, make their seat comfortable, etc.

A relatively minor thing, but a great way of sticking two fingers up at your customers.

Not true.

alane20

ED E wrote:

Sooner GA take over from the former CIEs the better.

Becarefull what you wish for

Yer Da sells Avon

Kyleboy wrote: »

Not true.

What part of it isn't true?