Why do people still go to Dubai with its contempt for basic human rights?

JohnCleary

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

i wouldn’t go around singing up the ra along residential streets.

I wouldn't do that *anywhere *... what's your point? Is that great banter to be at over here?

Mother of Christ....thats enough internet for one day

Tom Dunne

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s probably the Dubai marina. Being drunk is still a crime outside of those pubs and a serious one.

It depends on enforcement but i wouldn’t go around singing up the ra along residential streets.

Have you ever actually been there? Genuine question.

It's nowhere near as bad as you are suggesting. As with any other country, if you are having a few drinks, stay within the norms of what is socially acceptable, keep your head down, stay out of trouble and you'll have no problems.

Franz Von Peppercorn

JohnCleary wrote: »

I was making the point that this article has nothing to do with alcohol.

The subject of this article had a visa issue. She then went on to start recording an Immigration Officer with her phone. What kind of a special idiot does that?! (If you think nothing of that, you obviously haven't seen much if the world)

You didn’t read the piece if you think alcohol wasn’t an issue. That’s why she was arrested.

The visa is given on arrival. Why would it be an issue on departure?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Have you ever actually been there? Genuine question.

It's nowhere near as bad as you are suggesting. As with any other country, if you are having a few drinks, stay within the norms of what is socially acceptable, keep your head down, stay out of trouble and you'll have no problems.

Yes I have been there. As I said most people who go there or even live there don’t really understand the place.

Some people here are saying, in effect, that what happened to this woman is would you expect it’s an Islamic country. Others are saying it’s a party town. The alcohol flows like water. The women drink for free.

So which is it? Well in my first post I was clear - it’s both. You could spend a lifetime there as a boozehound, or get yourself arrested for a minor violation of the alcohol rule. Depends. On the policeman, judge etc

However alcohol is illegal in Dubai, and the emirates in general, but some areas are excepted.

If you are jailed it’s more or less midnight express.

Franz Von Peppercorn

JohnCleary wrote: »

I wouldn't do that *anywhere *... what's your point? Is that great banter to be at over here?

Not only was I not replying to you; the “you” in the sentence about singing the ra song was a generic you. I’m not prince Charles so I don’t use “one”.

Mother of Christ....thats enough internet for one day

Yes. You are getting cranky.

howdido

The funny thing I find whenever I see a judgmental post such as this is that in every case the poster has never been there and has absolutely no clue what the place is like. Yet they still judge people and are somehow experts on what the place is like. The number of Irish people moving there is increasing every year, there is a reason for that and it’s not just the good salaries!

savemejebus

More info coming out now , she wasn’t traveling on a UK or Swedish passport, rather she had an expired Swedish passport that she allegedly tried to use before producing a current Iranian passport. Could explain the visa kerfuffle
Then the video issue came up and the drinking was the icing on the cake.

italodisco

I've travelled quite a bit over the years, dubai was one of those places that left me wondering how on earth would anyone want to stay a week or more in.
Luckily I was just a day and half there, nothing of interest at all.... Tall skyscrapers, fake beaches, supercars, Russian hookers.... Might appeal to a 15 year old boy with a hard on and a few quid but it's the most soulless place I've ever been.

Youd have more excitement in tramore ffs!

cursai

savemejebus wrote: »

More info coming out now , she wasn’t traveling on a UK or Swedish passport, rather she had an expired Swedish passport that she allegedly tried to use before producing a current Iranian passport. Could explain the visa kerfuffle
Then the video issue came up and the drinking was the icing on the cake.

I'm shocked. But the simpletons only work off of initial headlines I'm afraid.

Heres Johnny

I was in Dubai for a week and was on the piss most of the time and didn't have any hassle. But I didn't do anything to cause hassle either.
You can get caught out quite easily if messing over there or find yourself in an unlucky situation.
For what it's worth I didn't really like the place and wouldn't go back.

Tom Dunne

savemejebus wrote: »

More info coming out now , she wasn’t traveling on a UK or Swedish passport, rather she had an expired Swedish passport that she allegedly tried to use before producing a current Iranian passport. Could explain the visa kerfuffle
Then the video issue came up and the drinking was the icing on the cake.

Whoa, let's not permit the facts to get in the way of a good story about the oppressive Arabs.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Whoa, let's not permit the facts to get in the way of a good story about the oppressive Arabs.

This post sits uncomfortably with your last post about Saudi Arabia

She’s in jail for the drinking as far as I can see. And I doubt the passport was expired - how would she get in the plane. It might be near to expiry date though and different countries have different rules on how close to expiry they would allow a visa waiver.

All of that should have lead to a deportation but she’s there for a year awaiting trial, which is probably alcohol related. Alcohol is illegal in Dubai.

Franz Von Peppercorn

cursai wrote: »

I'm shocked. But the simpletons only work off of initial headlines I'm afraid.

Simpletons tend to accept what they want to accept. She couldn’t have travelled on an expired passport.

Tom Dunne

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

She’s in jail for the drinking as far as I can see. .

The key point being "as far as I can see". None of us were there, none of us have the full facts. Pure conjecture.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

All of that should have lead to a deportation but she’s there for a year awaiting trial, which is probably alcohol related. Alcohol is illegal in Dubai.

You keep repeating that alcohol is illegal in Dubai, yet my many drunken escapades there would suggest otherwise. Do you have any legitimate evidence to confirm this is the case?

cdeb

I agree a link to the new info would be good to see what else is there.

In theory, you could board on an in-date Iranian passport and try get into Dubai on an expired Swedish passport. So boarding the plane not an issue - but do they not check at departure that you have the required visa for landing too?

howdido

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Whoa, let's not permit the facts to get in the way of a good story about the oppressive Arabs.

This post sits uncomfortably with your last post about Saudi Arabia

She’s in jail for the drinking as far as I can see. And I doubt the passport was expired - how would she get in the plane. It might be near to expiry date though and different countries have different rules on how close to expiry they would allow a visa waiver.

All of that should have lead to a deportation but she’s there for a year awaiting trial, which is probably alcohol related. Alcohol is illegal in Dubai.

Another Simpleton! Shes already been allowed return to the UK

PlaneSpeeking

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

This post sits uncomfortably with your last post about Saudi Arabia

She’s in jail for the drinking as far as I can see. And I doubt the passport was expired - how would she get in the plane. It might be near to expiry date though and different countries have different rules on how close to expiry they would allow a visa waiver.

All of that should have lead to a deportation but she’s there for a year awaiting trial, which is probably alcohol related. Alcohol is illegal in Dubai.

Sorry but no - she was locked up for an invalid visa and/or passport, starting filming the immigration officials when not allowed to - and told to stop - and also verbally abusing said officials.

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/12/british-mother-was-not-jailed-in-dubai-for-drinking-glass-of-wine-but-for-expired-passport-7828960/

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/mother-jailed-in-dubai-after-one-glass-of-wine-filmed-airport-officials/news-story/61b46d38e7817c72bef103b3c9e9560d

Fellow passengers confirm wine was sold and consumed freely - only to non Dubai nationals or other Arabic states. A colleague of mine regularly flies to Bahrain and Malaysia and tells me the flights have a separate bell, like that for searbelts etc and it is when international airspace is entered and alcohol may be served.

I personally would not be found dead anywhere near these countries but in this case the truth and the woman's story are barely even close.

PlaneSpeeking

Tom Dunne wrote: »

The key point being "as far as I can see". None of us were there, none of us have the full facts. Pure conjecture.




You keep repeating that alcohol is illegal in Dubai, yet my many drunken escapades there would suggest otherwise. Do you have any legitimate evidence to confirm this is the case?

Alcohol is very much NOT illegal for non-Arabic country passport holders.

A couple of pals had a 12 hour layover there on the way to Australia and had a whale of a time!

Tom Dunne

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Alcohol is very much NOT illegal for non-Arabic country passport holders.

A couple of pals had a 12 hour layover there on the way to Australia and had a whale of a time!

Exactly my point. Yet some people here can't let the truth get in the way of a good story. And when challenged can't back up their claims.

/thread

Franz Von Peppercorn

Tom Dunne wrote: »

The key point being "as far as I can see". None of us were there, none of us have the full facts. Pure conjecture.

Not at all. A “visa issue” on the visa waiver program would see you sent back home.

You keep repeating that alcohol is illegal in Dubai, yet my many drunken escapades there would suggest otherwise. Do you have any legitimate evidence to confirm this is the case?

I know, facts right? Like a lot of people who booze their way though Dubai you don’t look into the facts. Anecdotes are not facts.

why is it hard to believe that an Islamic country has strict laws on alcohol, with exemptions.

You could get very drunk in Ireland on good Friday when the ban was in by choosing your establishment but alcohol was banned on that day with exemptions.

Franz Von Peppercorn

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Alcohol is very much NOT illegal for non-Arabic country passport holders.

A couple of pals had a 12 hour layover there on the way to Australia and had a whale of a time!

It is illegal for everybody outside some areas.

https://www.dubai-online.com/essential/alcohol/

PlaneSpeeking

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Not at all. A “visa issue” on the visa waiver program would see you sent back home.





I know, facts right? Like a lot of people who booze their way though Dubai you don’t look into the facts. Anecdotes are not facts.

why is it hard to believe that an Islamic country has strict laws on alcohol, with exemptions.

You could get very drunk in Ireland on good Friday when the ban was in by choosing your establishment but alcohol was banned on that day with exemptions.

Ah the old "anecdotes" argument.

So because you have not personally experienced something - but others have, and it doesn't fit your agenda - you can ignore it ?

So facts:

https://www.dubai-online.com/essential/alcohol/

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/united-arab-emirates/local-laws-and-customs

https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-safety/middle-east/united-arab-emirates/drinking-and-the-united-arab-emirates-dont-mix

PlaneSpeeking

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It is illegal for everybody outside some areas.

https://www.dubai-online.com/essential/alcohol/

So you go to the areas where it is not. Really not "banned" is it ?

Tom Dunne

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It is illegal for everybody outside some areas.

https://www.dubai-online.com/essential/alcohol/

A quote from that website:

"The legal drinking age is 21. Minors requiring something stronger than an orange juice should pack false beards"


:D

Seriously, stop embarrassing yourself. I asked you to provide a legitimate source that confirms alcohol is illegal in Dubai, yet you cannot do that.

PlaneSpeeking

Tom Dunne wrote: »

A quote from that website:

"The legal drinking age is 21. Minors requiring something stronger than an orange juice should pack false beards"


:D

Seriously, stop embarrassing yourself. I asked you to provide a legitimate source that confirms alcohol is illegal in Dubai, yet you cannot do that.

Ah be fair - it can't be provided because it's not illegal!

Be like sending the lad for the Philosopher's Stone!

Tom Dunne

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Ah be fair - it can't be provided because it's not illegal!

Be like sending the lad for the Philosopher's Stone!

Hang on a sec. Somebody on the Internet is wrong (me). Convention dictates that Franz cannot sleep until he proves me wrong.

CruelCoin

JupiterKid wrote: »

What is the appeal?

JupiterKid wrote: »

glittering buildings

What is the appeal in eating chicken when the farming process is horrendous in terms of ethics etc?
Because it's goddam delicious, that's why.

Same logic applies to visiting Dubai.
I recommend it! The gold market etc is wonderful.

Subcomandante Marcos

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

So you go to the areas where it is not. Really not "banned" is it ?

But, it is.

It's illegal to have any alcohol in your system at any time. So you're in the Irish centre having a few pints of Guinness in McGettigans with the boiiiis and having a great time spending €14 a pint and thinking you're new aftershave must be working because this 21 year old russian girl is giving you the eyes from across the bar.

Off home you head, alone, when you find out that russian wan wanted €500 for the night andbyou forgot to bring the credit card.

On your way home your can get stopped by cops for whatever reason, maybe they're dipping for green diesel or there's a sketchy hiace in the area.

They decide to breathalyse you, the passenger, much to your surprise, and suddenly you're being arrested for being drunk in public.

Or you're a woman who had a glass of wine with dinner and then some guy in a bar sexually assaults you, you go to the hospital to be examined and they called the police, they breathalyse you, and you're being charged with being drunk public, committing adultery and general being a western whore trying to corrupt these poor naive Arab boys. You whore.

These aren't anecdotes either, they are literal case studies of people detained in the UAE despite having "permit" in hand, bit being fr Muslim countries, not drinking outside of the "permitted" areas and not "acting the eejit".

CruelCoin

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Ah be fair - it can't be provided because it's not illegal!

Be like sending the lad for the Philosopher's Stone!

UK advisory below:

Alcohol
Non-Muslim residents can get a liquor licence to drink alcohol at home and in licensed venues. These licences are valid only in the Emirate that issued the licence. Residents must also get a permit to be able to drink in licensed venues.

Liquor licences are not available to non-residents, but it is possible for tourists and visitors to buy and drink alcohol in licensed venues, such as hotels, restaurants and clubs. However, you should be aware that it is a punishable offence under UAE law to drink or be under the influence of alcohol in public. British nationals have been arrested and charged under this law, often in cases where they have come to the attention of the police for a related offence or matter, such as disorderly or offensive behaviour.

Generally, the legal age for drinking alcohol is 18 in Abu Dhabi, but a Ministry of Tourism by-law prevents hotels from serving alcohol to those under the age of 21. In Dubai and all other emirates besides Sharjah, the drinking age is 21. Drinking alcohol in Sharjah is illegal.

Passengers in transit through the UAE under the influence of alcohol may also be arrested.

CruelCoin

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

They decide to breathalyse you, the passenger, much to your surprise, and suddenly you're being arrested for being drunk in public.
".

Yup.
Drink all you like in the hotel bar, but you better be 100% sober before you leave the hotel grounds.

Tom Dunne

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

It's illegal to have any alcohol in your system at any time

So how do you reconcile the issuing of alcohol licenses and the fact that the legal age for alcohol consumption is 18 with the above statement?

PlaneSpeeking

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

But, it is.

It's illegal to have any alcohol in your system at any time. So you're in the Irish centre having a few pints of Guinness in McGettigans with the boiiiis and having a great time spending €14 a pint and thinking you're new aftershave must be working because this 21 year old russian girl is giving you the eyes from across the bar.

Off home you head, alone, when you find out that russian wan wanted €500 for the night andbyou forgot to bring the credit card.

On your way home your can get stopped by cops for whatever reason, maybe they're dipping for green diesel or there's a sketchy hiace in the area.

They decide to breathalyse you, the passenger, much to your surprise, and suddenly you're being arrested for being drunk in public.

Or you're a woman who had a glass of wine with dinner and then some guy in a bar sexually assaults you, you go to the hospital to be examined and they called the police, they breathalyse you, and you're being charged with being drunk public, committing adultery and general being a western whore trying to corrupt these poor naive Arab boys. You whore.

These aren't anecdotes either, they are literal case studies of people detained in the UAE despite having "permit" in hand, bit being fr Muslim countries, not drinking outside of the "permitted" areas and not "acting the eejit".

That is Champions League level whataboutery there! Kudos!

Subcomandante Marcos

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

That is Champions League level whataboutery there! Kudos!

It's not whataboutery at all. It's literally how the legal system on the UAE works. I travel to and through Dubai far more than I'd like, I just don't drink there, even on layovers, because it's not worth the risk.

Subcomandante Marcos

Tom Dunne wrote: »

So how do you reconcile the issuing of alcohol licenses and the fact that the legal age for alcohol consumption is 18 with the above statement?

Because the laws are hodgepodge and incompatible. It's legal to drink in this spot, step outside this spot and need to visit a hospital or police station, and you're liable for prosecution for being drunk, even if you're not drunk, and you drank the alcohol in a places that can legally sell alcohol.

Sleepy

I can understand people wanting to spend a few years working as teachers / nurses / engineers / whatever in a country with practically no income tax: it's a handy way to get the deposit for a house together. Personally, I couldn't do it if I knew the country in question was built on slavery and oppression, and I feel no qualms about judging others for doing so, even if I can understand their motivations.

I've not been to the UAE, have no intention of ever visiting and would share the OPs lack of understanding for how anyone could holiday there with a clean conciense.

Tom Dunne

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

It's not whataboutery at all. It's literally how the legal system on the UAE works. I travel to and through Dubai far more than I'd like, I just don't drink there, even on layovers, because it's not worth the risk.

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Because the laws are hodgepodge and incompatible. It's legal to drink in this spot, step outside this spot and need to visit a hospital or police station, and you're liable for prosecution for being drunk, even if you're not drunk, and you drank the alcohol in a places that can legally sell alcohol.

I really think you are overplaying the risk. As I said before, my own experience does not suggest it is as big an issue as you are making out.

I do not deny there are horror stories, but as the story at the centre of this thread proves that such episodes should not be taken at face value and a healthy dose of scepticism is warranted.

PlaneSpeeking

I personally wouldn't go there because no one has told me what I can and cannot do, say or drink since 1993 when the mammy passed - and to be honest I may not have always listened to her.

I see no reason to pay a fortune to go to a country where just that would happen.

At least the mammy did it because she loved me, not because she was a raving misogynistic sh**hole.

manonboard

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/12/british-mother-was-not-jailed-in-dubai-for-drinking-glass-of-wine-but-for-expired-passport-7828960/

This article contains a more likely story.
Her Swedish passport was expired. She then produced the Iranian passport. She has to reschedule her flight to be inside the visa window of this new passport allowance. She refused because of fees. She got angry when told she cannot enter otherwise. She began recording a government official in a no photography zone.
The alcohol seems to be a mere additional technicality.

PlaneSpeeking

manonboard wrote: »

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/12/british-mother-was-not-jailed-in-dubai-for-drinking-glass-of-wine-but-for-expired-passport-7828960/

This article contains a more likely story.
Her Swedish passport was expired. She then produced the Iranian passport. She has to reschedule her flight to be inside the visa window of this new passport allowance. She refused because of fees. She got angry when told she cannot enter otherwise. She began recording a government official in a no photography zone.
The alcohol seems to be a mere additional technicality.

This!

Though tbh I'd have give her a decent stretch in the Dochas for calling her child Bibi!

Tom Dunne

Finally!

My work is done here.

mariaalice

Sleepy wrote: »

I can understand people wanting to spend a few years working as teachers / nurses / engineers / whatever in a country with practically no income tax: it's a handy way to get the deposit for a house together. Personally, I couldn't do it if I knew the country in question was built on slavery and oppression, and I feel no qualms about judging others for doing so, even if I can understand their motivations.

I've not been to the UAE, have no intention of ever visiting and would share the OPs lack of understanding for how anyone could holiday there with a clean conciense.

My husband has the exact same opinion and was offered a job in one of the Emirates during the downturn but would not take it and instead commuted to London on a weekly basis for 18 months.

Has Irish society really made such a god of alcohol that going somewhere without easy access to alcohol is an issue?

TheQuietFella

Pauliedragon wrote: »

That story isn't as simple as her having a glass of wine. She turned up with no visa, starting mouthing off at the immi officials then tried to film them. Yes locking her up for that is probably a bit harsh but personally I don't have much sympathy for her, she should know better than to cause a scene in a place like that. This whole "she was locked up for simply having a glass of wine" bull**** is just media headlining nonsense as usual.

If this is the case they should have left her there!

I always think of this clip when situation like the above occur!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhZRDoGZg00

topper75

AllForIt wrote: »

Dubai or not Dubai, that is the question.

Ah you are taking me back to the ould days now.

Ils dubonnont?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSQT2IXXyxw

Subcomandante Marcos

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Because the laws are hodgepodge and incompatible. It's legal to drink in this spot, step outside this spot and need to visit a hospital or police station, and you're liable for prosecution for being drunk, even if you're not drunk, and you drank the alcohol in a places that can legally sell alcohol.

What risk, you are talking nonsense. Leave aside the fact I spent a week on the p*ss overthere with zero hassle but as I said I have a family member living over there who along with the very large Irish and English community she is part of spend 2 if not 3 days a week on the beer every week of a full year and yet no hassle for any of the people sho know or hundreds of people she could hear about through friends of friends.

I’ve heard plenty of stores from her of taxi’s calling the cops on passengers being asleep etc and they are sound as could be just drop the person home without a bother.

I’ll likely be visiting again next year as it’s a great spot and trust me any worries about drinking over there won’t enter my head as I take into the pints in what ever crazy day long drinking events we go to :pac:.

TheQuietFella

CruelCoin wrote: »

Yup.
Drink all you like in the hotel bar, but you better be 100% sober before you leave the hotel grounds.

I wonder if we could enforce that over here?

Jamsiek

no.8 wrote: »

Think you might have other issues... 8 cans on a flight <8hours.

I know others who've lived in Abu Dhabi and left due to the archaic laws on co-occomodation and alcohol. You haven't lived there

In fairness Abu Dhabi is stricter than Dubai.
There are 7 emirates which are like states where they have different laws from one another.
Dubai is seen as relatively liberal in comparison to for example, Sharjah which is more like Saudi Arabia

Jamsiek

end of the road wrote: »

i know, shur itl be mihey craic begorra. :puke. the country should be stripped of the world cup.

They're not hosting it. Qatar is hosting it

Andrew Beef

That woman’s story has been exposed as a pack of lies.

Dubai is a great place for a holiday.

Jamsiek

Samara Old Globe wrote: »

As for not living there, I have a close female family member living there and she loves the place. They certainly have no issues with drinking, they spend most of their weekends eating and drinking in fairly luxurious surroundings. Ive been in places over there that would barely be allowed here from free for all drinking point of view.

That's true to a degree. They tolerate it if it's away from general view. Same with prostitution from what I saw.
Public drunkenness is generally not tolerated although it's not well policed unless you get in trouble.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Andrew Beef wrote: »

That woman’s story has been exposed as a pack of lies.

Dubai is a great place for a holiday.

Has it? How?