Bringing back spent bullet casings from states

ECO_Mental

Hi guys this is a bit of a cross post from the travel section but you guys might be able to answer a question or two.

I'm in the states on holidays and went to a gun range for the experience. Myself the wife and kids shot a H&K 9mm hangun and a AR 15. Great fun

Anyway the kids want to bring back some of the spent bullet casings as souvenirs, I'm going to put them into my checked in bags but I'm worried that when I get to Dublin I'm going to get cavity searched and end up doing a stretch in the "Joy"

I'm going to declare them firstly but I want to know from you guys is it illegal to have spent bullet casings? I don't have any gun licence not to mention a .223mm AR licence...

Chiparus

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Hi guys this is a bit of a cross post from the travel section but you guys might be able to answer a question or two.

I'm in the states on holidays and went to a gun range for the experience. Myself the wife and kids shot a H&K 9mm hangun and a AR 15. Great fun

Anyway the kids want to bring back some of the spent bullet casings as souvenirs, I'm going to put them into my checked in bags but I'm worried that when I get to Dublin I'm going to get cavity searched and end up doing a stretch in the "Joy"

I'm going to declare them firstly but I want to know from you guys is it illegal to have spent bullet casings? I don't have any gun licence not to mention a .223mm AR licence...

Technically you can be charged with unlawful possession of a firearm ( I know it is a spent case but this is Ireland). It has happened about 10 years ago but I think the case was thrown out.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

Did you not believe the advice you were given in the Travel forum?

Cass

As per the advice from the thread in the travel forum it's illegal.

I see a lot of people saying "sure you'll be grand" and "i done it and didn't get caught". Well bully for them. Its either horsesh*t or they were lucky.

The law says any component part of ammunition is classed as live ammunition and must be licensed. The casings some people cited as being available here for sale are one of two things. Fake casings, made form brass, but never used in a firearm or a bullet display. Now the bullet display issue has been before the courts at least twice in the last few years and both times it was dismissed. The casings are STILL ILLEGAL. Just because people are not before the courts for each offence does not make it legal. The law says its ILLEGAL to possess casings without a license.

So in essence what the people telling you to just do it are forgetting to say is its illegal, but i got a guy in a good mood the day i done broke the law.

The laws in America don't matter a bit because the casings were obtained there. Its the laws in Ireland that matter as these will be the ones you'll be breaking.

No one here is the internet police and if you want to do it then go ahead. Its an offence with up to 5 years and/or €25,000 fine. Whether you get prosecuted for it, fined, jailed or none of the above is at the discretion of the Garda/Customs officer and Judge. However it'll be your arse ina sling not anyone else's, mine included, so in the end you need to decide if taking the chance is worth it.

Lastly apolgies for being blunt, but these types of topics drive me mad. People are openly admitting to breaking the law, telling you to do the same, and all with "m'eh" attitude towards the possible consequences. I'm not trying to scare you because a ssaid it's your backside in a sling not mine if it goes wrong, but there is no way i'd tell anyone attempting this to "give it a bash".

Enjoy your holidays and get in plenty of shooting, but leave all souvenirs on the range in my opinion.

solarwinds

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.
Personally I wouldnt take the chance.

ECO_Mental

Braydon Thousands Stimulus wrote: »

Did you not believe the advice you were given in the Travel forum?

I posted here again because you guys should be the experts ....and I was advised to ask here?

Cass

That poster is not a regular/member of the shooting forum, no post history here, and only a new user. So please don't think that is the usual attitude of this forum.

ECO_Mental

Sorry about not replying earlier but boards was give me the jip over here with all these I'm not a robot.

Anyway im at the gate and about the board the plane. I brought them along and my missues seems to know better....they are in her bag though.

I'll let ye all know how I got on in 6 hours gulp. Although my one call probably won't be to boards though

I wish I had read this advice before packing but I couldn't get access to boards it keep on giving me the I'm not a robot screen and then not connecting.

See ye all soon...hopfully

Cass

As you're already going with, chances are you should be ok-ish, but if you hear a dog don't bother running. You'll only die tired.

ECO_Mental

Someone the travel forum said they don't screen the bags in Dublin for inbound flights. So if I can get past the sniffer dogs and the gun powder residue I'm golden

That's a lot of hopes....

Cass

No one can say what will or won't happen. It's all guess work.

Law says you are breaking the law and its an offense.

Common sense would say they'll either overlook it or just take them off you with a warning.

Chances are nothing happens and no one catches it.

Either you'll post back saying it all worked out or you'll be posting form the Joy.

Best of luck.

ECO_Mental

I made and got through no worries ...phew

Going through the customs i was a bit nervous though:)

Thanks for all the help

whomitconcerns

Just to clarify eco. You are now in possession of them and thus are committing an offence currently. As every one said, probably nothing going to happen but..... Just to be clear.,

Emmersonn

Just saw this post. I'm glad the oe made it. A month or so ago I flew out from Seattle. No problems at all at customs and security going out or coming in but one of our checked bags had been opened after check-in by customs/security in Seattle. Lock on case was opened and again closed. Notification from customs/security was enclosed in the bag otherwise I would not have known. It's a lottery that I would not chance.

grassroot1

I presume this is a hoax but if not it asks serious questions about airport security.

Mongfinder General

ECO_Mental wrote: »

I made and got through no worries ...phew

Going through the customs i was a bit nervous though:)

Thanks for all the help

None to clever what you’ve done by posting here. Judging by the time you posted at pre flight and then on arrival in Dublin, you were on the Chicago flight overnight. Now how many Irish people were on that flight with their wife and kids (probably 8 to 17 years of age) as opposed to individuals? Possibly 3 or 4 families? It’s a good thing for you that the cops and customs aren’t arsed in this country.

goose06

I brought 50 Cal casings home from vegas last year in my checked bags with no issues, you'll be grand

whomitconcerns

grassroot1 wrote: »

I presume this is a hoax but if not it asks serious questions about airport security.

Why? Our customs procedures maybe but nothing else. What's the security risk?

The Bishop Basher

I’ill Never forget telling my dad I had spent casings in the glove box as we sat in a queue for the British army checkpoint to get accross the border at Swanlinbar about 30 years ago.

He was from Belfast and knew how much trouble those casings could bring us. I was just a naive innocent teenager.

Gas thing is I brought them home and they were my show and tell item in school..

How times have changed..

Reati

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Just to clarify eco. You are now in possession of them and thus are committing an offence currently. As every one said, probably nothing going to happen but..... Just to be clear.,

You must be some Craic at parties. It's a few spent shells, the op isn't going to built a homemade gun and reloaded them with powder into usable form. Op just wants a momento.

Reati

Mongfinder General wrote: »

None to clever what you’ve done by posting here. Judging by the time you posted at pre flight and then on arrival in Dublin, you were on the Chicago flight overnight. Now how many Irish people were on that flight with their wife and kids (probably 8 to 17 years of age) as opposed to individuals? Possibly 3 or 4 families? It’s a good thing for you that the cops and customs aren’t arsed in this country.

Fortunately unlike posters in this thread, the guards have their priorities right and are busy trying to solve actual gun crime on the streets of Dublin (you know the lads shooting at each other with illegal guns and real bullets) instead of busting people in arrivals with a few spent shells from thier holidays.

whomitconcerns

Reati wrote: »

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Just to clarify eco. You are now in possession of them and thus are committing an offence currently. As every one said, probably nothing going to happen but..... Just to be clear.,

You must be some Craic at parties. It's a few spent shells, the op isn't going to built a homemade gun and reloaded them with powder into usable form. Op just wants a momento.

And he has them. Doesn't change the fact it's illegal... Merely pointing it out as the post was focused on the illegality of bringing them in. And since your making assumptions, I will too, the op is maybe going to build a homemade gun and reload the shells with powder into a usable form..

Emmersonn

Reati wrote: »

You must be some Craic at parties. It's a few spent shells, the op isn't going to built a homemade gun and reloaded them with powder into usable form. Op just wants a momento.

It does'nt matter what he is going to do with the spent shells. The law states that spent ammunition shells are treated as live ammunition. He is breaking the law. :eek:
Unless he is in possession of a gun licence for this calibre of ammunition.

Del2005

grassroot1 wrote: »

I presume this is a hoax but if not it asks serious questions about airport security.

The airport security is completely different to bringing illegal items into the country. Airport security is looking for things that can damage a plane or person not items that are illegal in the country, that's the customs/police job.

BattleCorp

Reati wrote: »

You must be some Craic at parties. It's a few spent shells, the op isn't going to built a homemade gun and reloaded them with powder into usable form. Op just wants a momento.

What, do you want people here to give incorrect advice?

As was already stated, it is illegal to have in your possession an empty bullet casing in a calibre that you aren't licenced for, and that is a fact.

Would the Gardaí go after you if you were found to have an empty bullet casing? I don't know, but I do know I wouldn't like to take the chance.

Vegeta

Reati wrote: »

Fortunately unlike posters in this thread, the guards have their priorities right and are busy trying to solve actual gun crime on the streets of Dublin (you know the lads shooting at each other with illegal guns and real bullets) instead of busting people in arrivals with a few spent shells from thier holidays.

Several people have been brought to court for having spent casings they don't have a license for and as far as I am aware, one of those people was a poster here.

So the Gardai do pursue people for this when the mood takes them.

Reati

whomitconcerns wrote: »

And he has them. Doesn't change the fact it's illegal... Merely pointing it out as the post was focused on the illegality of bringing them in. And since your making assumptions, I will too, the op is maybe going to build a homemade gun and reload the shells with powder into a usable form..

Your assumption is unreasonable. Occam's razor tells us it's a reasonable assumption that the OP wants a memento given it's easier to purchase a gun on the black market with ammo (or even buy a replica) to commit a crime than to travel to America, build a home made gun, source the gun powder and refurbish the casings to bullets in a method they can be used.

Emmersonn wrote: »

It does'nt matter what he is going to do with the spent shells. The law states that spent ammunition shells are treated as live ammunition. He is breaking the law. :eek:
Unless he is in possession of a gun licence for this calibre of ammunition.

And every 3rd driver I saw on the road was breaking the law on my drive to work. Between speeding, using mobiles and one dude not wearing a seat belt. What ones should we be worried about given the finite policing resources we have. I know which one should be the bigger priority.

BattleCorp wrote: »

What, do you want people here to give incorrect advice?

As was already stated, it is illegal to have in your possession an empty bullet casing in a calibre that you aren't licenced for, and that is a fact.

Would the Gardaí go after you if you were found to have an empty bullet casing? I don't know, but I do know I wouldn't like to take the chance.

The point was made it was illegal to bring them in. The OP understand that point. I actually get it as most people here most like have gun licenses and there are rightly concerns not to be carrying anything they wouldn't be licensed for given you'd be in for a serious slap as a gunholder.

But to me, some posters them got all righteous about it like they they are building a case to call Gardai Confidential and report the OP.

Example:

whomitconcerns wrote:

Just to clarify eco. You are now in possession of them and thus are committing an offence currently. As every one said, probably nothing going to happen but..... Just to be clear.,

Clear of what? That OP clearly knows what they are doing it or asking to get confirmation from OP so you have evidence?

Vegeta wrote: »

Several people have been brought to court for having spent casings they don't have a license for and as far as I am aware, one of those people was a poster here.

So the Gardai do pursue people for this when the mood takes them.

I'm sure they do but I bet it's not out of priority and something tips them off.

For example, Why and how did the Gardai find them? Where were the spend casings? Did these people have a license for one caliber yet have casings for others on them? This statements asks more questions that it answers Genuinely would love to hear more on that.

whomitconcerns

And Breathe............. No one got all righteous...all just pointing out a simple fact. It is illegal and op is breaking the law..what he does with that information is his business.

Reati wrote: »

Your assumption is unreasonable. Occam's razor tells us it's a reasonable assumption that the OP wants a memento given it's easier to purchase a gun on the black market with ammo (or even buy a replica) to commit a crime than to travel to America, build a home made gun, source the gun powder and refurbish the casings to bullets in a method they can be used.



And every 3rd driver I saw on the road was breaking the law on my drive to work. Between speeding, using mobiles and one dude not wearing a seat belt. What ones should we be worried about given the finite policing resources we have. I know which one should be the bigger priority.



The point was made it was illegal to bring them in. The OP understand that point. I actually get it as most people here most like have gun licenses and there are rightly concerns not to be carrying anything they wouldn't be licensed for given you'd be in for a serious slap as a gunholder.

But to me, some posters them got all righteous about it like they they are building a case to call Gardai Confidential and report the OP.

Example:



Clear of what? That OP clearly knows what they are doing it or asking to get confirmation from OP so you have evidence?



I'm sure they do but I bet it's not out of priority and something tips them off.

For example, Why and how did the Gardai find them? Where were the spend casings? Did these people have a license for one caliber yet have casings for others on them? This statements asks more questions that it answers Genuinely would love to hear more on that.

Reati

whomitconcerns wrote: »

And Breathe............. No one got all righteous...all just pointing out a simple fact. It is illegal and op is breaking the law..what he does with that information is his business.

It's a little more than point out the fact folks.

Sherlock here is another example:

Mongfinder General wrote: »

None to clever what you’ve done by posting here. Judging by the time you posted at pre flight and then on arrival in Dublin, you were on the Chicago flight overnight. Now how many Irish people were on that flight with their wife and kids (probably 8 to 17 years of age) as opposed to individuals? Possibly 3 or 4 families? It’s a good thing for you that the cops and customs aren’t arsed in this country.

The undertone is the OP is in big trouble for bringing a few spent cases in.

Yes, Point taken it's against the law but Cass laid that all out at the start of the thread. Hardly any need for the pointed comments thereafter. That's all.

Cass

Few things.

• What the OP done was illegal.
• Currently being in possession of them now is illegal.
• Saying "you'll be grand" is not an excuse especially given the OP was prewarned it was illegal.
• Firearm laws put all the onus on the individual to know the law and where appropriate apply accordingly.

Couple of things relevant to this thread/forum.

• We are NOT the internet police.
• We can advise, give opinions, but the actions of the individual are the responsibility of the individual as are the consequences (if any)

=====================================================================================================

MOD HAT ON FOR THIS ONE

The OP asked, got his answer, and the matter is over. This forum has a "No discussion of illegal activity" rule, and while this matter may be one of the lowest issues on the agenda of An Gardaí its still illegal.

The thread was let run in an effort to inform the OP as no declaration of intent was given until the last moment. As the OP has done what they have done, and the thread can now only go in circles regarding peoples opinions of what they should or should not HAVE done, coupled with the previous point of rule #8 i'm closing this thread.


=====================================================================================================

Cass

I have received complaints about the thread being closed. Reading back through my post above it seems the reasoning i gave, while clear in my head, did not translate well when written out. So allow me to elaborate.

The reason it wasn't closed down two days ago when the OP first asked was because the OP was asking for advice on whether he could bring them back. Like asking if a person can rob a bank, drink & drive, etc. its not illegal to ask and to be given answers.

When the OP posted last night at 21:49 he said he was going to do it. At this point he still had broken no Irish laws as he was in America, and his say so was not grounds enough to shut the thread. Also WE ARE NOT the internet police so after being advised multiple times not to do it, he is free to do it anyway.

Roll on this morning and the OP posts saying he has landed with the casings and made it through airport security.

It is NOW that he has broken Irish law and committed an offence by illegally smuggling the casings and further offences of being in possession of those cases without the necessary license(s).

As i don't check on the forum every hour of every day, and only checked in at the time i posted (13:11), it was only at the time i posted that i could act on the OPs admitted actions.

Up until that point, the OP was just asking questions. He had done nothing illegal from an Irish point of view. As soon as he landed with them he had broken at least two, if not more, Irish laws and hence it became illegal.

To allow the discussion of illegal activity on the forum goes against the rules of not only the forum, but the site and we do not condone such actions nor will we provide the platform for the discussion of such illegality. Seems harsh? Well there is no "small laws" or laws which can be ignored. This is a public forum and we do not allow the perception that anything goes which includes the breaking of ANY laws let alone firearm ones.

Going back to my example of the bank robbery. If a person has a gun (legally held), a getaway car, and a plan, they have no broken the law until they actually commit the robbery. The OP is in the same boat. Up until the point he boarded the plane he had committed no offences in Ireland. As soon as he landed, he had.

However this is not my personal blog and i'm not infallible. If anyone feels that this is not a valid reason for closing the thread then feel free to contact one of the other Moderators/Category Moderators, as listed at the bottom of each page, and ask them to review my decision. If they feel it was closed prematurely then they will reverse my decision and re-open the thread.

If not, it'll remain closed.