Non LGBT+ Modding of the LGBT forums

JackTaylorFan

robarmstrong wrote: »

So... only LGBT people can mod LGBT forums?

That's ridiculous logic.

No, it's not really. LGBT+ spaces should be run by LGBT people. That's how it is. And as long as Boards has an LGBT space, that's how it should be run.

robarmstrong wrote: »

Your posting style is consistently rude, aggressive, hostile and yet when you're questioned on it you play the offended card.

Tone-policing is very harmful to transpeople. I have every right to be offended at offensive content, especially when it is ignored by incompetent modding, but thank you for your concern.

robarmstrong wrote: »

So despite me being quite compassionate about the LGBT community (yeah I will throw out the "I have LGBT friends" note here, because I do) and the difference in their quality of life the last few years and acceptance by society has improved dramatically and they are an absolute delight to talk to. I care about their rights, issues and problems as much as anyone else's, so why should I be forbidden to speak on the matter?

I'm glad your friends' lives have dramatically improved. As I said acceptance of trans people is about 30 years behind the LGB part of th acronym at this moment in time. And if I sound a little less than happy about, well yeah...

And to answer your last query, I never said any straight person was forbidden to speak on a matter concerning LGBT+. But I also have no obligation to hear you out on matters that directly affect my life, especially if what you are saying is coming from a place of ignorance and bad faith argument.

robarmstrong wrote: »

I'm sorry you may have suffered slights or injustices on this forum but you're going about it the complete wrong way.

Save your sorries. After everything else you just said - i.e. dismissing my genuine grievances with this failing forum - it just comes across as condescending, to be brutally honest with you.

JackTaylorFan

So this discussion is really going 'round in circles. I would like to actually suggest a few proposals in an effort to fix what is going on in the LGBT forum. I would appreciate very much if the powers that be would at least hear me out.

Some issues I feel need to addressed on the charter (some are specific to trans and non-binary people and some would apply to all areas of the forum):


___________________________

General LGBT charter suggestions:

a) Victim Blaming (which I have experienced first hand several times on the LGBT forum): Placing, or attempting to place fault on the victim of a verbal, physical or sexual assault should not be tolerated at all.

b) Denialism: The denying of hate crimes or that transphobia and homophobia exists as a prevalent problem in society should not be condoned on any level. Furthermore, downplaying the role transphobia and homophobia plays in a crime where the victim is or was perceived by the attacker to be a member of the LGBT+ community should be grounds for sanctioning. This should extend to hypothetical scenarios also. On an LGBT+ forum, this kind of denial is completely unacceptable. It is damaging to those who have suffered homophobic/transphobic attacks. And yet, I have seen non-LGBT users hound people on the LGBT forum refusing to accept that these things are hate crimes.
This should include hypothetical scenarios.

c) Trolling devises, including: bad faith questions (or sealioning), micro-aggressions (dogwhistling and misgendering) and Gaslighting need to be seriously tackled better. Right now it's a joke.

Trans and non-binary specific:

Denialism: Refusing to acknowledge that transpeople's identities are valid (both adults and children) on an LGBT+ forum is again unacceptable and needs to be treated more severely.

Vilification of Trans healthcare: Attacking and criticizing the medical professionals (Doctors, Nurses, etc.), parents and transpeople in regards trans rights to healthcare is completely shameful and needs to be stopped. Comparing the treatment of a trans patient to child abuse is both dangerous and completely reprehensible on a LGBT forum. It needs to result in the harshest of punishments. Trans Healthcare should under no circumstances be under attack on a forum that supposedly exists for our protection.

Misgendering: Misgendering is considered as extremely abusive when aimed at trans or non-binary people, and as such should be dealt with more effectively. It is a subtle form of dogwhistling (or micro-aggression) designed by the abuser to incense the victim - and, yes, mods (especially non-LGBT) lacking awareness of trans issues will more often tend to ignore it or brush it off as "not a big deal". It is, in fact, a huge deal. And given my past experience of non-LGBT mods when I have highlighted such abuse, I am rightfully concerned that we now have one modding the LGBT forum. The following needs to be prohibited: using gendered language such as (but not limited to) "He", "She", "Dude", "Man", "Sis" when addressing user whose gender identity you are not aware of. Claiming you didn't know is not good enough. Excusing it as something innocent is not good enough. If you are dealing with trans and non-binary people you are dealing with people highly sensitive to this form of abuse, and you nee to understand that if you enter into an LGBT+ space.

And just to add: words like "Dude" are gender loaded to pretend otherwise is an insult to everybody's intelligence. For example: "I had sex with a dude last night." - literally nobody is thinking that "dude" refers to a woman in that sentence - and anyone who would argue that they would is basically just trolling.



_________________________________________



So, those are my proposals for updating the charter. If these issues are addressed maybe then the LGBT forum will actually be fit purpose.

I was going to add tone-policing, but honestly, if the LGBT forum here was anywhere near the standards expected of an LGBT+ space there would literally no need for it to be even said.

That's my take. I'm tired having the same old arguments that get us nowhere. I would like to see real change on the forum, that I believe would benefit every single member of the community, not just me. And sadly, I don't think the charter as it currently stands and the non-LGBT mods we have now provide near enough protection. This is not a personal attack on BBoC but it is a criticism of her - and all other non-LGBT people for that matter - overreaching into LGBT issues.


Thanks

Pa8301

Is this thread serving any purpose other than providing JackTaylorFan a platform to complain about the LGBT forum and have a cut at any posters who disagree with her opinions?

JackTaylorFan

Pa8301 wrote: »

Is this thread serving any purpose other than providing JackTaylorFan a platform to complain about the LGBT forum and have a cut at any posters who disagree with her opinions?

I have offered a few suggestions above. And as I also said above: I'm done "debating" now; I've said my piece.

I would hope the admin might take on board some of my suggestions, but I highly doubt it. They have literally ignored deliberate misgendering in this very thread - not a good sign at all. I predict Boards will stay the same; and until I am permabanned I will continue to speak out about the ridiculous levels of ignorance and bigotry I experience here.

Many thanks.

Big Bag of Chips

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

don't think the charter as it currently stands and the non-LGBT mods we have now provide near enough protection.

JackTaylorFan, would you do me a favour? Will you log out and navigate to the LGBT forum and look at the list of Forum Mods and come back to this thread with the list of non-LGBT mods (plural) that the forum now has?

You will need to log out to see the Forum as you have been banned for 2 weeks.

You started this thread to raise issue with the "Non LGBT+ Modding of the LGBT forums" and the Non LGBT mods the forum has now, so it would be helpful if you could provide the names of the current LGBT moderators who are not part of the LGBT community.

Thanks.

Calhoun

Pa8301 wrote: »

Is this thread serving any purpose other than providing JackTaylorFan a platform to complain about the LGBT forum and have a cut at any posters who disagree with her opinions?

Not really, I also hope the admin staff don't give in to this kind of thing.

It will be a watershed moment for boards, the LGBT forum success used to be that it's members got on with allot of the other forums and have generally helped change opinions of people.

If this goes through it will help define and us versus them scenario.

Lemongrease

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

So this discussion is really going 'round in circles. I would like to actually suggest a few proposals in an effort to fix what is going on in the LGBT forum. I would appreciate very much if the powers that be would at least hear me out.

Some issues I feel need to addressed on the charter (some are specific to trans and non-binary people and some would apply to all areas of the forum):


___________________________

General LGBT charter suggestions:

a) Victim Blaming (which I have experienced first hand several times on the LGBT forum): Placing, or attempting to place fault on the victim of a verbal, physical or sexual assault should not be tolerated at all.

b) Denialism: The denying of hate crimes or that transphobia and homophobia exists as a prevalent problem in society should not be condoned on any level. Furthermore, downplaying the role transphobia and homophobia plays in a crime where the victim is or was perceived by the attacker to be a member of the LGBT+ community should be grounds for sanctioning. This should extend to hypothetical scenarios also. On an LGBT+ forum, this kind of denial is completely unacceptable. It is damaging to those who have suffered homophobic/transphobic attacks. And yet, I have seen non-LGBT users hound people on the LGBT forum refusing to accept that these things are hate crimes.
This should include hypothetical scenarios.

c) Trolling devises, including: bad faith questions (or sealioning), micro-aggressions (dogwhistling and misgendering) need to be seriously tackled better. Right now it's a joke.

Trans and non-binary specific:

Denialism: Refusing to acknowledge that transpeople's identities are valid (both adults and children) on an LGBT+ forum is again unacceptable and needs to be treated more severely.

Vilification of Trans healthcare: Attacking and criticizing the medical professionals (Doctors, Nurses, etc.), parents and transpeople in regards trans rights to healthcare is completely shameful and needs to be stopped. Comparing the treatment of a trans patient to child abuse is both dangerous and completely reprehensible on a LGBT forum. It needs to result in the harshest of punishments. Trans Healthcare should under no circumstances be under attack on a forum that supposedly exists for our protection.

Misgendering: Misgendering is considered as extremely abusive when aimed at trans or non-binary people, and as such should be dealt with more effectively. It is a subtle form of dogwhistling (or micro-aggression) designed by the abuser to incense the victim - and, yes, mods (especially non-LGBT) lacking awareness of trans issues will more often tend to ignore it or brush it off as "not a big deal". It is, in fact, a huge deal. And given my past experience of non-LGBT mods when I have highlighted such abuse, I am rightfully concerned that we now have one modding the LGBT forum. The following needs to be prohibited: using gendered language such as (but not limited to) "He", "She", "Dude", "Man", "Sis" when addressing user whose gender identity you are not aware of. Claiming you didn't know is not good enough. Excusing it as something innocent is not good enough. If you are dealing with trans and non-binary people you are dealing with people highly sensitive to this form of abuse, and you nee to understand that if you enter into an LGBT+ space.

And just to add: words like "Dude" are gender loaded to pretend otherwise is an insult to everybody's intelligence. For example: "I had sex with a dude last night." - literally nobody is thinking that "dude" refers to a woman in that sentence - and anyone who would argue that they would is basically just trolling.


_________________________________________



So, those are my proposals for updating the charter. If these issues are addressed maybe then the LGBT forum will actually be fit purpose.

I was going to add tone-policing, but honestly, if the LGBT forum here was anywhere near the standards expected of an LGBT+ space there would literally no need for it to be even said.

That's my take. I'm tired having the same old arguments that get us nowhere. I would like to see real change on the forum, that I believe would benefit every single member of the community, not just me. And sadly, I don't think the charter as it currently stands and the non-LGBT mods we have now provide near enough protection. This is not a personal attack on BBoC but it is a criticism of her - and all other non-LGBT people for that matter - overreaching into LGBT issues.


Thanks

I’m not sure why you are ranting so much when it’s obvious it won’t get you anywhere and make you appear deranged to most people. Maybe that’s your plan ?

JackTaylorFan

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

JackTaylorFan, would you do me a favour? Will you log out and navigate to the LGBT forum and look at the list of Forum Mods and come back to this thread with the list of non-LGBT mods (plural) that the forum now has?

You will need to log out to see the Forum as you have been banned for 2 weeks.

You started this thread to raise issue with the "Non LGBT+ Modding of the LGBT forums" so it would be helpful if you could provide the names of the current LGBT moderators who are not part of the LGBT community.

Thanks.

I think you are missing the point here. This is all came about when you directly modded me on an issue I feel strongly about on a forum designated to LGBT issues. I tried to explain to you why your tone-policing of me was damaging. You were dismissive of such a concern, and your continued dismissive attitude throughout that brief conversation made clear to me: modding from Non-LGBT on that forum is entirely inappropriate - no offence, but you just don't get it.

As for the 2 mods currently serving the LGBT forum (officially):

L Jenkins... Have literally had one interaction with that mod about a year ago. Doesn't seem to be active at all. If they were to be actively modding me, I would like to think they were LGBT, but they are not even present, so it is kind of irrelevant.

Joeytheparrot: I have no problem with whatsoever - does a decent job most the time. Sometimes could do better though - re: the latest misgendering abuse I received.

JackTaylorFan

Lemongrease wrote: »

I’m not sure why you are ranting so much when it’s obvious it won’t get you anywhere and make you appear deranged to most people. Maybe that’s your plan ?

Actually, I should probably add gaslighting to my list of suggestions... Thanks for the reminder

Big Bag of Chips

So what was so different with me asking you to amend your aggressive posting tone, or Joeytheparrot asking you, and indeed banning you a week previously for exactly the same thing? I sent you a polite pm. I didn't even give you an official warning.

Me being a member or not of the LGBT community is irrelevant in this particular instance. You have been asked by multiple moderators, across multiple fora to amend your posting style. You have received bans in the LGBT forum from LGBT moderators because of your posting style.

At the risk of repeating myself, I did not moderate a trans issue. I moderated a poster who came back from a 1 week ban and picked up exactly where they left off. If you cannot see the difference between the 2 then there really is little point in trying to explain to you anymore.

JackTaylorFan

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

So what was so different with me asking you to amend your aggressive posting tone, or Joeytheparrot asking you, and indeed banning you a week previously for exactly the same thing? I sent you a polite pm. I didn't even give you an official warning.

Me being a member or not of the LGBT community is irrelevant in this particular instance. You have been asked by multiple moderators, across multiple fora to amend your posting style. You have received bans in the LGBT forum from LGBT moderators because of your posting style.

At the risk of repeating myself, I did not moderate a trans issue. I moderated a poster who came back from a 1 week ban and picked up exactly where they left off. If you cannot see the difference between the 2 then there really is little point in trying to explain to you anymore.

As I said, Joey got it wrong with the misgendering thing - which my reaction saw me banned for. He isn't perfect, then again who is, but I feel he has at least a better insight into LGBT matters than non-LGBT mods. And This is the largest concern: you're lack of insight on matters discussed in the forum, which is not a fault of yours as a person, but it is a fact that you can't possibly understand without the lived experience. This inevitably will lead to brushing aside and overlooking genuine concerns people like me have, which leads to me doing things like this. You want my behaviour to change; change the way you treat and allow transpeople to be treated on Boards

At the risk of repeating myself: the LGBT forum sorely needs a charter update and perhaps even a mod who is actually trans - I consider the forum it in its current state completely broken and riddled with administrative restraints when dealing with trolls.


Also, since you mentioned my bad behaviour on other forums - which I would dispute by the way - let me say this: as bad as the LGBT forum is - the sad reality is that it is by far a better place than the rest of Boards. Where the non-LGBT have never been anything but dismissive of my genuine concerns about the bigotry and transphobia I have encountered on those forums and indeed have engaged in the same transphobic behaviour at times. It is absolutely shocking the level of abuse I have experienced firsthand in those other forums, but yet again, you are attempting to regulate my behaviour rather than deal with abusive trolling of transpeople throughout this site.

JackTaylorFan

Anyways, I have been repeating myself the last hour or so...

I am done with this thread.

Simple fact is: Boards' LGBT forum is not a safe place for transpeople looking for help. It is overrun with malignant trolls and the modding is not really doing enough about it. If Admin or Mod want to take on some of my suggestions and try and improve things - especially in regards the treatment of trans issues - that would be great.

If not, it's a pretty dismal reflection on Boards but not completely unexpected either.

dudara

The simple fact JFT is that your track record on this site is very poor. I’m counting 6 warnings, 7 infractions, 8 forum bans and one site ban. You have been repeatedly asked to moderate your style, but you have never been asked to stop sharing or educating others. The problem appears to be that you are not interesting in educating others or cutting some slack for those that might genuinely have erred. You castigate them, belittle them and dismiss them. It’s frankly a sh*tty way to treat people.

I really wish you’d consider my advice, but I’m nearly sure I’ll be dismissed because I don’t fit into the exceptionally narrow vein of people to whom you might actually pay some heed.

I’m closing this thread now as I’m not sure what further purpose it will serve in the short term. You have shared your input on the forum. BBoC has given their side and you continue to reject it.

If any of the LGBT forum mods want this reopened in order to address the points raised by JTF, just let me, one of the Admins, Shield or Spear know and we will reopen.