Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

um7y1h83ge06nx

Bringing it back in topic a bit does anyone know anyone that is or has done a women's studies or gender studies course?

I'm only guessing but I wonder are there many young people, it would seem a waste to do it if you're looking for a decent job out of it. If imagine most would be fairly well off middle aged and older women who are doing it because it appeals to them, not that they need to carve out a job or career.

Sweetemotion

Kaysen Echoing Perfume wrote: »

Bringing it back in topic a bit does anyone know anyone that is or has done a women's studies or gender studies course?

I'm only guessing but I wonder are there many young people, it would seem a waste to do it if you're looking for a decent job out of it. If imagine most would be fairly well off middle aged and older women who are doing it because it appeals to them, not that they need to carve out a job or career.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

These courses are scrapped because they offer nothing. the idea of college is to upskill people for the workforce

Yes and no TG. That's what industry would like to have us believe and there's much to it in the Real World(tm), but TBH that's reductive, too black and white and a bit Sheldon Cooper for my personal liking.

Universities from their very birth over a thousand years ago(and before, if we stretch the definitions) have always been cauldrons of thought and education for its own sake, whether it turned out to be reductively practical or not. A centre for working out what we collectively as a species know at any one time and grading students on how much of that they know - and maybe add to - individually.

And there are plenty of courses that "offer nothing" beyond themselves and offer equally little in the way of employment but going on to teach said courses. A goodly chunk of the arts courses for a start.

However, and this is just my take, culturally we'd be lesser if we lost those "frivolous" areas of study. Sure feminism, sorry "gender studies", is more a politic than an area of study, social "sciences" can be similar and I personally think them increasingly down the rabbit hole daft, but where do we as a culture draw the line? Life is, or should be more than training to man(or woman) a cubicle, no matter how fancy.

The other question is should we as a society support this kinda thing through our taxes? That's less a given for me, though we support a fair few things that don't necessarily give us an obvious "return for investment".

And this is coming from a man who considers feminism Gender studies to be woo woo ballsology of the highest order. I particularly loved one of the reply tweets to the Irish "doctor" of the subject, when someone tweeted that it was really feminism, and she replied along the lines of "feminism is just as much for men". Maybe the silly bint would have been well served to also take a course in etymology. The clue is in the name. From the Latin; Femina, woman, the female gender.

Ulysses Gaze

GreeBo wrote: »

Do you feel the same away about creationism or flat earthers?

Yes. And they should be lampooned.

Venom

batgoat wrote: »

Where do you stand on Hitler? Genuinely seems like you would admire him based on the crap you've posted in this thread...

PlaneSpeeking

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Kaysen Echoing Perfume wrote: »

Bringing it back in topic a bit does anyone know anyone that is or has done a women's studies or gender studies course?

I'm only guessing but I wonder are there many young people, it would seem a waste to do it if you're looking for a decent job out of it. If imagine most would be fairly well off middle aged and older women who are doing it because it appeals to them, not that they need to carve out a job or career.

The planet has a future if she's not a lone example!!!!

Sal Butamol

Wibbs wrote: »

I particularly loved one of the reply tweets to the Irish "doctor" of the subject, when someone tweeted that it was really feminism, and she replied along the lines of "feminism is just as much for men".

Holy **** did you just unmask Blindboy Boatarse?:D

mfceiling

This is the ultimate aim of the right, shut down all dissent.

Seems that if you have a different opinion on the validity of gender studies as being a relevant subject, then you too will be shouted down, compared to Hitler or mocked for dissent.

riffmongous

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

They're allowed to teach them but not with State funds. What's the problem?

But Orban is also banning private universities that teach things he doesn't like, so that simply doesnt cut it, it's very much a shutdown

DickSwiveller Returns

riffmongous wrote: »

But Orban is also banning private universities that teach things he doesn't like, so that simply doesnt cut it, it's very much a shutdown

Can you give an example?

Sal Butamol

Remember when the left championed Julian Assange as a hero of free speech?

The minute he aired Hillary Clinton's dirty laundry they were calling him a traitor, a Russian agent and asking for him to be droned.

As bad as the right can be, the left in recent years have been far, far, worse with their brand of silencing people they don't like.

Now with Trump Derangement Syndrome is full flow, they are worse than ever.

meeeeh

Just two points on the whole discussion:

1. Hungarian PISA results are falling quite significantly so gender studies might not be the biggest problem to solve.

2. Hungarians are doing a lot better under Orban than they were 10 years ago. So while the West in general and Orban's fanboys here mostly concentrate on migrants and building fences it is possible (and I'd say likely) that main reason for his popularity is simply more money in people's pockets. There is still a question mark over whole economic miracle and it will be interesting to see how the situation develops.

Galwayguy35

Orban is right, if people want to study something that is basically worthless horseh1t let them pay for it themselves.

riffmongous

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

Can you give an example?

It was already mentioned, the Soros funded Central European University. Now dislike Soros all you want but it doesn't change the fact it's a shutdown of anything Orban doesn't like, if you can't fund publicly or privately

hell it's even mentioned in your op link

GreeBo

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Yes. And they should be lampooned.

Why would you waste time, money and effort on something that in your own words "should be lampooned"?

mzungu

Petty move by Orban and his cronies. Whatever one thinks of the content of a GS course, it does not mean it should be singled out for reduced funding (which will effectively ban it). If people want to go the college and study GS then so be it. No government should have the authority to pick and choose what courses they do, and do not like from a university and then withhold funding based on that.

The Hungarian government must be pretty damn weak if they are shaking in their boots that a few GS graduates are going to rise up and topple them.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

In your own words, can you tell us exactly why these courses are useless? What is inferior about the information given in these courses?
Can you supply stats what % of graduates from these courses go on to start careers in fast food establishments?
Or are you just spouting sh*te because you're the cool and edgy dude?

What information is inferior??...hmm let me see

1. That gender is a social construct. Lets ignore basic biology and the fact that most of the sexual members of plant and animal kingdom has male and female genitals and traits

2. That a patriarchy exists in western society in spite of the fact that western civilisation provides the greatest level of freedom at present in history. The so called oppressed such as non-caucasians and women can pursue any career they wish, wear what they wish, say what they wish, practice what religion they wish. They are no more oppressed then premiership footballers but of course a couple of narcissistic depraved lunatics are mad for power so they came up with this brain wave to indoctrinate millions of naive kids around the world

So what career path is out of gender studies exactly since your an informed expert? Im interested to know all the potential jobs that Hungary could be throwing down the swanny in the future.

sameoldname

Stories like this do my head in...

How many people actually take these courses? I've never met one and I work in an industry where you'd be likely to find them. In fact, I could probably count on only one hand the amount of people I've met in my 30+ years who would seem like they would actually care enough to put in the effort to study such a course.

Orban did this for no other reason bar the optics of it. He's defunded a course barely anyone takes and yet people on here and elsewhere seem to think he's some sort of saviour? The stupidity of it all makes my blood boil!

mzungu

mzungu wrote: »

Petty move by Orban and his cronies. Whatever one thinks of the content of a GS course, it does not mean it should be singled out for reduced funding (which will effectively ban it). If people want to go the college and study GS then so be it. No government should have the authority to pick and choose what courses they do, and do not like from a university and then withhold funding based on that.

The Hungarian government must be pretty damn weak if they are shaking in their boots that a few GS graduates are going to rise up and topple them.

They'd topple fúck all. Most of these idiots cant even mount anything resembling a proper debate. Just brats who try and censor anyone who debunks their flawed shíte.

Lash Into The Pints

Soy boys and blue haired lesbians absolutely wrecked.

Sweetemotion

mzungu wrote: »

Petty move by Orban and his cronies. Whatever one thinks of the content of a GS course, it does not mean it should be singled out for reduced funding (which will effectively ban it). If people want to go the college and study GS then so be it. No government should have the authority to pick and choose what courses they do, and do not like from a university and then withhold funding based on that.

The Hungarian government must be pretty damn weak if they are shaking in their boots that a few GS graduates are going to rise up and topple them.

Ha ha. That's a good one.

Sal Butamol

sameoldname wrote: »

How many people actually take these courses? I've never met one and I work in an industry where you'd be likely to find them. In fact, I could probably count on only one hand the amount of people I've met in my 30+ years who would seem like they would actually care enough to put in the effort to study such a course.

Lots. Almost every single university and college has these courses and departments.

You work. That's probably why you have never met one.

The degrees from these courses are worse than useless in the real world.

Lash Into The Pints

How will Hungarians learn to hate themselves and their country, heritage, religion, culture etc without these vital gender studies courses?

What have you done Orban?!

Lash Into The Pints

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

How will Hungarians learn to hate themselves and their country, heritage, religion, culture etc without these vital gender studies courses?

What have you done Orban?!

That silly Orban scrapping funding for courses that would lead to high levels of youth unemployment.... Just what is he thinking?! :pac:

sameoldname

Sal Butamol wrote: »

Lots. Almost every single university and college has these courses and departments.

You work. That's probably why you have never met one.

The degrees from these courses are worse than useless in the real world.

If use in the "real world" is the criteria for removing funding from courses you could make a fair case for removing such things as pure maths, most artistic and cultural courses, most language courses, philosophy, history, a good chunk of theoretical physics and the list goes on and on.


If the people taking these courses never get work in that field then what is the problem? They can't influence anything on the dole surely?


Stop getting sucked into thinking that political moves like this are actually making your life in anyway better. They aren't. It's a ploy by a politician to garner easy votes and you've fallen for it. Don't be manipulated by it.

Yer Da sells Avon

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

Soy boys and blue haired lesbians absolutely wrecked.

Book-burning troglodytes who know the price of everything and the value of fuck all celebrate.

Lash Into The Pints

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Book-burning troglodytes who know the price of everything and the value of fuck all celebrate.

Is that you Hapax?

Anyway I'm sure you can still study gender, you'll just have to pay for it yourself. Like studying astrology or homeopathy.

Sal Butamol

sameoldname wrote: »

If use in the "real world" is the criteria for removing funding from courses you could make a fair case for removing such things as pure maths, most artistic and cultural courses, most language courses, philosophy, history, a good chunk of theoretical physics and the list goes on and on.


If the people taking these courses never get work in that field then what is the problem? They can't influence anything on the dole surely?


Stop getting sucked into thinking that political moves like this are actually making your life in anyway better. They aren't. It's a ploy by a politician to garner easy votes and you've fallen for it. Don't be manipulated by it.

You assume an awful lot based on what exactly?

FYI I have a PhD and have worked and taught in universities here and abroad.

Yer Da sells Avon

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

Anyway I'm sure you can still study gender, you'll just have to pay for it yourself. Like studying astrology or homeopathy.

You'll be waiting a while before we elect a hard-right government here, I'm afraid.

sameoldname

sameoldname wrote: »

If use in the "real world" is the criteria for removing funding from courses you could make a fair case for removing such things as pure maths, most artistic and cultural courses, most language courses, philosophy, history, a good chunk of theoretical physics and the list goes on and on.


If the people taking these courses never get work in that field then what is the problem? They can't influence anything on the dole surely?


Stop getting sucked into thinking that political moves like this are actually making your life in anyway better. They aren't. It's a ploy by a politician to garner easy votes and you've fallen for it. Don't be manipulated by it.

Can people not just buy into this ideology without actually wasting years of their life studying it? Do they need to do a degree in horseshíte?

Any country worth their salt would assess their skills shortages and fund courses that are actually of use and lead to a functional career path.

Gender studies is not only useless but causes societal dysfunction into the bargain and all because a few greedy universities want to take advantage of millennial brats

Lash Into The Pints

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

You'll be waiting a while before we elect a hard-right government here, I'm afraid.

Exactly Hapax, you're free to waste your money on a worthless gender studies degree here. Your butthurt is misplaced.

Yer Da sells Avon

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

Exactly Hapax, you're free to waste your money on a worthless gender studies degree here. Your butthurt is misplaced.

Long may that continue, much to the consternation of the book-burning fraternity.

Lash Into The Pints

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Long may that continue, much to the consternation of the book-burning fraternity.

If millenial retards want to get into debt with gender studies then more power to them. How else we learn of the gender dynamics of burger flippers in Macdonalds?

Annasopra

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

They're allowed to teach them but not with State funds. What's the problem?

State censorship wanting to shut down dissent is the problem. I would have thought that was obvious.

Yer Da sells Avon

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

How else we learn of the gender dynamics of burger flippers in Macdonalds?

Indeed, how else we learn.

Annasopra

Nermal wrote: »

The reality is that the Hungarian government prioritises the rights of its citizens over illegal immigrants and doesn't want to spend taxpayer's money on indoctrination into a post-modern cult. It's not 'dodgy', frankly it's a beacon.

The Hungarian government is effectively doing the opposite - spending money on proagandising and indocrinating its own cult!

sameoldname

Sal Butamol wrote: »

You assume an awful lot based on what exactly?

FYI I have a PhD and have worked and taught in universities here and abroad.

Congratulations. You still have biases and from your posting history here it's quite obvious what they are. Orban and his ilk are exploiting them. There's nothing new in what he's doing. You should know better.

Annasopra

batgoat wrote: »

You two are genuinely reading like people who would have been praising Hitler in his fight against the 'globalist agenda'. The rhetoric, the behaviour of the regime etc aren't dissimilar. Dick, it's not according to me, it's according to numerous human rights orgs across the globe. It's simply that you two are so anti immigrant and right wing in your viewpoints, you're incapable of seeing how bad things are getting over there.

Agreed. They might as well.join Orbans cult as they seem to have been completely taken in by his propaganda.

Annasopra

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

Ah I see you're coming from the the everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler school of political thought. I thought you would be in favour of democracy. Or is it only when you like it?

Hahahaha - You are seriously calling Orban and Hungary right now democracy? Hilarious.

Annasopra

Kaysen Echoing Perfume wrote: »

Bringing it back in topic a bit does anyone know anyone that is or has done a women's studies or gender studies course?

I'm only guessing but I wonder are there many young people, it would seem a waste to do it if you're looking for a decent job out of it. If imagine most would be fairly well off middle aged and older women who are doing it because it appeals to them, not that they need to carve out a job or career.

I know a few. They have gone to academia, nursing, civil service, teaching, civil society campaigns, economists, journalism, community development work, youth work. Quite diverse. Not all middle class lesbians doing it as a hobby at all.

Annasopra

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

Can you give an example?

He is trying to ban CEU

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/04/hungary-shut-university-170405104057150.html

Sal Butamol

sameoldname wrote: »

Congratulations. You still have biases and from your posting history here it's quite obvious what they are. Orban and his ilk are exploiting them. There's nothing new in what he's doing. You should know better.

I said it shouldn't be banned.

In your rush to sift through my posts for some dirt you missed that.

My only bias is against loony gibberish of the sort that is regularly spouted by gender studies departments and their ilk.

Keep making up stuff though, it illustrates your tenuous grasp of reality pretty well.

dr.fuzzenstein

Sal Butamol wrote: »

You assume an awful lot based on what exactly?

FYI I have a PhD and have worked and taught in universities here and abroad.

He assumes all this based on exactly fcuk all except his own ignorance and prejudice and I doubt that person has ever seen a university from the inside, unless he delivers something there.

dr.fuzzenstein

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

He is trying to ban CEU

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/04/hungary-shut-university-170405104057150.html

The right wing circle jerk will not read this.
Too many facts and big words, easier to just scream "Fake News!" and carry on.

Grayson

Grayson wrote: »

There's a completely different story to the one you're telling.

The fact is that no-one actually cited that work. No-one actually believed it. What the writers exposed wasn't that gender studies is bad but rather that the academic publishing company is dodgy.

Gender stiudies courses tend to use research that is based on academic publishing... along with Feminist ideology which is again heavily influenced by academic publishing so....

I don't get your objection, TBH.

The article you linked to decided to go down a completely different route, ignore the dodgy peer review and focus on the subject matter of the paper instead. They ignored that the writers actually paid someone to get the article in the journal.

Which is what all such research should be doing.... and again, I don't get your objection. Or are you simply arguing for the sake of it?

Deleted User wrote: »

Well you see the thing is that these courses are actually absolutely useless and lead to at most if you are lucky a job in Mcdonalds flipping burgers after three years of brainwashing. These courses are scrapped because they offer nothing. the idea of college is to upskill people for the workforce

Not really. These courses have a purpose now. For those people who want the introduction of Quotas, and these graduates will be there to maintain the need for quotas and other such initiatives for "equality". There will be a need for employees who have been trained to be "fair" to women to ensure that equality for [insert gender, race etc here] exists, and then we'll need similar people to be there to report on it in the media.

TBH I suspect these days having a Gender studies qualification, combined with any other industry related Masters qualification, [and being female] would be a guarantee for work and speedy promotions.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The right wing circle jerk will not read this.
Too many facts and big words, easier to just scream "Fake News!" and carry on.

You do realise that people can support his idea to ban Gender Studies without supporting the rest of his policies/motives?

I swear the way we're all put into neat little groups just so that we can be dismissed is increasingly becoming annoying.

I dislike Gender Studies courses, or "Womens Studies" as they used to be called. I don't dislike Astrology because it doesn't encourage a line of thought that pits one gender against another. Astrology doesn't matter, one way or another. Gender Studies and similar courses, will become more important as time goes by.

Gender Studies is based in a mishmash of Peer-related papers, some valid research, and heaps of assumptions without solid foundations. But it's becoming more accepted in spite of it's lack of solid evidence. That we allow such courses is like suggesting we should allow the KKK to run a course in University to introduce and promote their viewpoints of racial superiority.

I have yet to see any of the posters complaining about this ban actually defend the course itself. Perhaps because you already understand that it's a course that encourages misandry.

Argue that Orban is an evil influence, and I could agree with you more. Although, he did say that such a course, does not match with their culture. And he might be right there. I've seen very little to suggest that Gender studies actually seeks to promote equality... but then I suppose Equality isn't what he wants. With Gender studies, a more female dominated society rather than the more traditional male dominated society?

Malayalam

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH I suspect these days having a Gender studies qualification, combined with any other industry related Masters qualification, [and being female] would be a guarantee for work and speedy promotions.

Which is why there is malarkey such as the Scottish government publishing education protocols whereby children between 5 and 9 years old will be taught to choose their own gender. People graduate from these courses and move into positions whereby they have influence on social policy.

According to teaching materials created jointly by Education Scotland, the Scottish government and the NHS, pupils will be asked to decide whether they are a boy, a girl or neither.

Source - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/five-year-olds-to-choose-their-gender-26m3x2frt

I do not think they should be banned at all. Far more productive and effective would be to properly fund rigorous academic courses that counter-balance, investigate, query, counter-publish and debate the anti-scientific gender and social study modules.

whisky_galore

Gender studies is a load of bollix. That it's a subject in uni is laughable. Don't have an objection to it, but better suited to an evening class/night course along with 'discover your aura' or 'creative writing'.

What I will say is that they have a weird attitude to women in Hungary. Went into a few places with female friends and even though I was further away from the server/counter, the women were overlooked as if they didn't exist.

PlaneSpeeking

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I know a few. They have gone to academia, nursing, civil service, teaching, civil society campaigns, economists, journalism, community development work, youth work. Quite diverse. Not all middle class lesbians doing it as a hobby at all.

Not diverse at all - the professions in bold are really just regurgitating the same old tired "31 gender" bollocks and the other professions would laugh in your face if all you had was a gender studies diploma.

PlaneSpeeking

whisky_galore wrote: »

Gender studies is a load of bollix. That it's a subject in uni is laughable. Don't have an objection to it, but better suited to an evening class/night course along with 'discover your aura' or 'creative writing'.

What I will say is that they have a weird attitude to women in Hungary. Went into a few places with female friends and even though I was further away from the server/counter, the women were overlooked as if they didn't exist.

Yeah that's not unique - we have to carefully balance our laboratory groups so that the Saudi male students don't ride roughshod over the opinions of the female students.