Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

TomSweeney

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

One of the Gender studies lecturers in UCD has taken the news well.

https://twitter.com/MaryMcAuliffe4/status/1027934366180286465

I have never even interacted with her ...


MaryMcAuliffe4MaryMcAuliffe4's Tweets. Learn more




- How ironic.

PlaneSpeeking

TomSweeney wrote: »

I have never even interacted with her ...


MaryMcAuliffe4MaryMcAuliffe4's Tweets. Learn more




- How ironic.

I have that! Never bloody heard of her!!!!

Free speech indeed eh ?

EDIT - went in via no login:

Gender studies programs to be banned in Hungary- the alt right really fear feminism, because of the chanllege it poses to their misogynist, racist, homophobic worldview. This is the ultimate aim of the right, shut down all dissent, esp in the universities.

Yeah she's lost it!

Oh and she has more - any lads who campaigned against the 8th and for repeal ? Apparently you didn't:

Women activists are so scary ... they get things done, like, oh let me think, #repealedThe8th - we can see why the @RENUAIreland boys find the thought of politically motivated and trained women terrifying ��

She needs professional help.

TomSweeney

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Odd - never heard of her but already blocked on her on Twitter!!!

I guess it's the repeal shield ?

I am blocked by a load of the ultra hard core pro choice people too - its funny cos I am pro choice myself, have never even tweeted or liked anything remotely prolife, but still somehow ended up on that list.
Perhaps because I liked or retweeted posts on other topics - but made by pro life users ???.
Pretty silly algorithm if thats the case.

pickarooney

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

I'm not a huge fan of democracy, no. Democracy gives us useless, spineless politicians, endless quangos, corruption, mass immigration, a terrible health service, no houses etc. etc.

You're the one who doesn't like so-called democracy and thinks every country should be bullied by allegedly benign NGO who most definitely are completely impartial (sarcasm). As for there being a "reason Hungary is being viewed more and more as authoritarian" why don't you think for yourself instead of believing what everyone else says.

How does democracy, as compared to other forms of government, lead to corruption and a terrible health service?

Which non-democratic countries boast low levels of corruption and a high quality health service?

PlaneSpeeking

pickarooney wrote: »

How does democracy, as compared to other forms of government, lead to corruption and a terrible health service?

Which non-democratic countries boast low levels of corruption and a high quality health service?

Well the last part - Cuba.

pickarooney

Sal Butamol wrote: »

Only today I read an article about how white male professors in the UK will now be assigned younger black women as "mentors" to teach them about unconscious bias under a new government-funded scheme

Was that article on xhamster by any chance?

TomSweeney

batgoat wrote: »

This is a bit like those people who admire Putin for being a hard man and ignore the terrible things that occur under him. You've literally fallen for the propaganda of a pretty dodgy government which will likely go fully authoritarian in the coming years. I'm pretty proud I don't support a xenophobic, anti democratic and corrupt regime cause that's exactly what it is.

That sounds a lot like Islam, whats your stance on that I wonder ?

PlaneSpeeking

pickarooney wrote: »

Was that article on xhamster by any chance?

Whatever that is!!!




** deletes tablet browser history **

Grayson

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

She needs professional help.

In a previous account didn't you say that ethnic cleansing against muslims was ok? And you think that she needs profesional help because she thinks that a right wing pro catholic group would not want people studying gender studies.


The hypocrisy in this thread is ridiculous. There are people here cheering on a government that's removing courses from a university because the political party in power disagrees with the course and yet they'd bitch and whine about someone being removed from youtube for breaking the rules. They actively support political meddling in universities. They're the kind of idiots who would complain about safe spaces because they feel that universities should have open dialogue but at the same time they support this.

And btw, there's no hypocrisy on my part. I think stuff like theology should be taught in universities. So should ancient history, philosophy, social sciences, psychology and all the others. I also think that a government shouldn't interfere in what's taught in them.

Nermal

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

He is trying to ban CEU

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/04/hungary-shut-university-170405104057150.html

:rolleyes:

Foreign interference in elections bad!

Foreign interference in third-level education good!

How do you people never tire of double standards?

Grayson

TomSweeney wrote: »

That sounds a lot like Islam, whats your stance on that I wonder ?

Islam is a regime? It's a big monolithic block? Or it has a single ruling structure? I'm not sure you know what a regime is.

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

Gender stiudies courses tend to use research that is based on academic publishing... along with Feminist ideology which is again heavily influenced by academic publishing so....

I don't get your objection, TBH.



Which is what all such research should be doing.... and again, I don't get your objection. Or are you simply arguing for the sake of it?



Not really. These courses have a purpose now. For those people who want the introduction of Quotas, and these graduates will be there to maintain the need for quotas and other such initiatives for "equality". There will be a need for employees who have been trained to be "fair" to women to ensure that equality for [insert gender, race etc here] exists, and then we'll need similar people to be there to report on it in the media.

TBH I suspect these days having a Gender studies qualification, combined with any other industry related Masters qualification, [and being female] would be a guarantee for work and speedy promotions.

Read the articles I linked. I realise the guardian one is long but it's very interesting. The problem isn't with gender studies. This exists in every single discipline. Companies like informa pretty much cornered the market in academic journals. And because academics are pushed to publish they created pay for publish journals. These exist in every field. Universities also have to buy these journals. If they want one respected journal, they have to buy them all.

So what informa did was create loads of dodgy journals. They fill them up with any old crap. It doesn't matter what's in them at all, all that matters is that they can fill them and get them out. The same thing happens with conferences. A few years ago a guy got a paper accepted for a pay to speak academic conference. The guy wrote that paper, I believe it was about physics, using autocomplete on his iphone. It made even less sense than that gender studies paper because the sentences didn't even make sense.

Now the fact that this guy got his "physics" paper accepted for the conference doesn't mean that physics is a subject which is rubbish. But you use a similar exercise with gender studies to try and show that gender studies is a rubbish subject. It doesn't prove that that at all. It just proves that these predatory journals and conferences are dodgy as hell. And as the articles I linked showed the academic community is aware of this.

silverharp

its a minor issue as i believe there are only around 13 "students" in the whole country, less trust fund malcontents I'd imagine. still one would be p1ssed if state funds where used to teach homeopathy or toothiology , this is the same

Grayson

silverharp wrote: »

its a minor issue as i believe there are only around 13 "students" in the whole country, less trust fund malcontents I'd imagine. still one would be p1ssed if state funds where used to teach homeopathy or toothiology , this is the same

It's not the fcuking same.

pickarooney

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't dislike Astrology because it doesn't encourage a line of thought that pits one gender against another.

Typical bloody Capricorn. When are you lot going to learn your place?

TheQuietFella

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

Great news coming out of Hungary. Victor Orban's government have stopped universities offering courses in Gender Studies. It's about time these courses were exposed for the unscientific propaganda vehicles they are.

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/orban-bans-gender-studies-courses-in-hungary-report-says-1.6365826

Can someone please explain what you learn or are taught in Gender Studies please!

The Bishop Basher

I support free speech and so I have no issue with universities teaching this wiffle waffle if people are dumb enough to sign up for it.

I do have a problem with the wiffle waffle itself though and I equally should have the right so say what I think about it but that right is being steadily eroded and as recent threads show, our hands our often bound on here too.

It can’t all be one way.

We can’t let this nonsense go unchallenged.

silverharp

Grayson wrote: »

It's not the fcuking same.

ah but it is, pseudo intellectual science denying guff

PlaneSpeeking

Even MIT, long at the top of the world university rankings, has fallen prey to the bollocks:

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/womens-and-gender-studies/wgs-101-introduction-to-womens-and-gender-studies-fall-2014/syllabus/

One of the "learning" outcomes:

How do we explain the sexual division of labor and the unequal social status of women and girls and those activities and roles deemed "feminine" in society?

Nice bit of prejudice there eh ?

PlaneSpeeking

silverharp wrote: »

ah but it is, pseudo intellectual science denying guff

Actually it's not always - homeopathy, while largely utter garbage and certainly not anywhere near medicine - MIGHT work if someone is suitably gullible enough to believe, never underestimate a weak mind and the placebo effect.

DickSwiveller Returns

TomSweeney wrote: »

I have never even interacted with her ...


MaryMcAuliffe4MaryMcAuliffe4's Tweets. Learn more




- How ironic.

You must be on the repeal shield snowflake list. Lots of people who have never even discussed abortion are on it.

DickSwiveller Returns

Grayson wrote: »

It's not the fcuking same.

You're right. Gender Studies is much worse.

silverharp

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Actually it's not always - homeopathy, while largely utter garbage and certainly not anywhere near medicine - MIGHT work if someone is suitably gullible enough to believe, never underestimate a weak mind and the placebo effect.

so that puts it ahead of gender studies :pac:

DickSwiveller Returns

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

State censorship wanting to shut down dissent is the problem. I would have thought that was obvious.

They're refusing to fund a course that engages in junk science. Fair play to them.

PlaneSpeeking

silverharp wrote: »

so that puts it ahead of gender studies :pac:

Exactly!!!!

Not by much I'll grant you!

Grayson

Grayson wrote: »

Now the fact that this guy got his "physics" paper accepted for the conference doesn't mean that physics is a subject which is rubbish. But you use a similar exercise with gender studies to try and show that gender studies is a rubbish subject. It doesn't prove that that at all. It just proves that these predatory journals and conferences are dodgy as hell. And as the articles I linked showed the academic community is aware of this.

Sure, I get (now) what you're talking about, but we're still talking about Gender studies here. You've just acknowledged that the research/peer related material used is dodgy... so why defend it's inclusion in Universities?

The problem is that Gender studies does have an influence in the world. The changes in our society (Okay, less so in Ireland, but it's spreading in other countries) reflect this drive to push one gender over another. Gender Studies is still predominately pro-female with many articles pointing to how men are the aggressors against females, being very selective in what Statistics or research they use to justify their stance.

Now, if we were talking about throwing in the caveat that Gender Studies should not be taken seriously, and encouraging people to treat it the same as many nightcourses, then I could understand the objections better. However, this thread seems to suggest that people are defending gender studies being banned simply because Orban is disliked.

pickarooney wrote: »

Typical bloody Capricorn. When are you lot going to learn your place?

Actually, I'm a Pisces, and rather true to my nature.

GarIT

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Can someone please explain what you learn or are taught in Gender Studies please!

How women are disadvantaged while completely ignoring any relevant advantages.

How anything that makes a woman uncomfortable is rape even if it is just someone looking at them.

How female sexuality is to be treasured while male sexuality is disgusting.

How women should only date the guys they like but a man rejecting someone is discrimination.

How hairdressers and child minders should earn as much as engineers and programmers because we need to balance the pay of women and men even those those differences mostly only occur between professions and not within them and also for example how nurses should earn as much as doctors or even surgeons.

The most important thing they learn is that there is absolutely no difference between men and women and any differences are made up except when they benefit women.

meeeeh

pickarooney wrote: »

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

I'm not a huge fan of democracy, no. Democracy gives us useless, spineless politicians, endless quangos, corruption, mass immigration, a terrible health service, no houses etc. etc.

You're the one who doesn't like so-called democracy and thinks every country should be bullied by allegedly benign NGO who most definitely are completely impartial (sarcasm). As for there being a "reason Hungary is being viewed more and more as authoritarian" why don't you think for yourself instead of believing what everyone else says.

How does democracy, as compared to other forms of government, lead to corruption and a terrible health service?

Actually under Orban corruption is increasing and Hungary is falling on European Health Index. It must be that Orban's is exactly the type of political system DS is raving against.

Malayalam

Gender studies is based on a core concept of a dominating patriarchy - male is in control, female is oppressed. The male domination/female oppression narrative has been extended to skin colour, sexual orientation, trans identification etc in these type of studies (intersectional oppression). As a female I find the core narrative to be infantilising, regressive, anachronistic (sorry guys, ye missed the oppression bus by several decades if not a century and it was (is?) generally class that was (is?) the foundation of oppression) and ill-founded in real life experience. It is largely manufactured as a philosophical or political or sociological thesis. At the very least countervailing theses should be purposely funded to limit harm.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Deleted User wrote: »

Gender Studies is based in a mishmash of Peer-related papers, some valid research, and heaps of assumptions without solid foundations. But it's becoming more accepted in spite of it's lack of solid evidence. That we allow such courses is like suggesting we should allow the KKK to run a course in University to introduce and promote their viewpoints of racial superiority.

The tenets of academic freedom have to be considered here. As much as you may dislike the idea gender studies courses, and as much as I agree with many of your criticisms, it's a dangerous assumption that "we" (as in citizens, voters, or students) should have the right to determine what is or is not taught in universities. That should be the sole prerogative of the universities and their faculty.

Faculty are routinely attacked for their research, or for the subject matter of their courses, which is why the concept of academic freedom was created in the first place. In recent years, protesters have targeted everything from literature courses focused on white male writers, to economics courses that allegedly promote neoliberalism. It is up to the universities to stand firm against such idiocy and let academic freedom prevail.

Protecting faculty and their courses against state reprisal is a necessary extension of academic freedom. Therefore, as much as you may dislike gender studies, cheering the government's effort to ban it sets a dangerous precedent.

PlaneSpeeking

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, I get (now) what you're talking about, but we're still talking about Gender studies here. You've just acknowledged that the research/peer related material used is dodgy... so why defend it's inclusion in Universities?

The problem is that Gender studies does have an influence in the world. The changes in our society (Okay, less so in Ireland, but it's spreading in other countries) reflect this drive to push one gender over another. Gender Studies is still predominately pro-female with many articles pointing to how men are the aggressors against females, being very selective in what Statistics or research they use to justify their stance.

Now, if we were talking about throwing in the caveat that Gender Studies should not be taken seriously, and encouraging people to treat it the same as many nightcourses, then I could understand the objections better. However, this thread seems to suggest that people are defending gender studies being banned simply because Orban is disliked.



Actually, I'm a Pisces, and rather true to my nature.

My dad's Pisces - they're generally lovely!

I'm Aries. You don''t want to argue with me lol!!!

Malayalam

DONTFORGET wrote: »

Like the last time. Problem is that you keep responding to people you have on ignore. Silly man.

I thought Plane Speaking was a female Mind you I also though Freshpopcorn was as well. I don't seem to be very good at this.

PlaneSpeeking

Malayalam wrote: »

I thought Plane Speaking was a female Mind you I also though Freshpopcorn was as well. I don't seem to be very good at this.

I am - ignore the re-reg, the misandrist cannot accept that there are women who disagree with the point of view.

You're spot on!!!

DickSwiveller Returns

DONTFORGET wrote: »

They're angry because their day is over. Women are getting equal rights now. There's a huge campaign against rapists and the culture that allows this. All decent men and women are in support of this, the angry men are not.

:D:D

mvl

Funny - I thought this thread would disappear by now ... (as threads that are not behaved do disappear on AH).

All type of academic censorship is wrong. Particular this one doesn't make sense to me because there should be (other) genders that need to be studied for the future of our humanity (e.g. mechanical genders ?!?).
So it sounds to me this is just Orban messing it up again. And very sad that he seem to have supporters in here when he's doing it.
Actually, it sounds to me he delivers on his promises. As documented in https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/30/danger-hungary-verge-full-blown-autocracy-viktor-orban-vengeance :
Having bussed tens of thousands of supporters into Budapest for a pre-election “peace march” on 15 March, prime minister Viktor Orbán addressed them, promising that after his victory on 8 April he will deal with those who oppose him by “moral, political and legal means”.

Chris_Heilong

Well done Hungary, they are really doing things right over there, why cant our country be more like this?

Annabel Ambitious Tinsel

Annabel Ambitious Tinsel wrote: »

The tenets of academic freedom have to be considered here.

Well... if they're funded by the State, then, the State and it's body of education would have direct control over what is taught.

As much as you may dislike the idea gender studies courses, and as much as I agree with many of your criticisms, it's a dangerous assumption that "we" (as in citizens, voters, or students) should have the right to determine what is or is not taught in universities. That should be the sole prerogative of the universities and their faculty.

So, the university are the only ones to decide what is being taught...? I honestly doubt that's the case in most situations outside of Private institutions.

And I have no problem with the idea of Gender Studies as a course. If it reflected the name with it's content. As things stand it is still women's studies with a new name. That's it.

Faculty are routinely attacked for their research, or for the subject matter of their courses, which is why the concept of academic freedom was created in the first place. In recent years, protesters have targeted everything from literature courses focused on white male writers, to economics courses that allegedly promote neoliberalism. It is up to the universities to stand firm against such idiocy and let academic freedom prevail.

Protecting faculty and their courses against state reprisal is a necessary extension of academic freedom. Therefore, as much as you may dislike gender studies, cheering the government's effort to ban it sets a dangerous precedent.

Why? Sounds suspiciously like tax without representation...

"The business community has too much influence on Ireland’s research agenda, at the expense of non-scientific disciplines, the outgoing president of University College Cork, Michael Murphy, says.

Murphy says business is over-represented on bodies that make important funding decisions, though he wants the sector to continue contributing to higher education, via taxes and philanthropy"

The idea that Universities are islands of authority in how their courses are presented is, personally, naive. The State is going to have influence over what courses are taught and the standard those courses aspire to, otherwise, why fund Universities at all if they present courses that provide no benefit to the country?

Nermal

Annabel Ambitious Tinsel wrote: »

The tenets of academic freedom have to be considered here.

Academic freedom is a myth. Try starting a research programme that challenges the twaddle taught as 'gender studies' and see how much 'academic freedom' you have.

sexmag

The people going mad about this are the same people who would be up in arms if they thought creationism, astrology or physic power study in universities.

The public money has been withdrawn,make people pay for the course if they want to do it.

Malayalam

DONTFORGET wrote: »

They're angry because their day is over. Women are getting equal rights now. There's a huge campaign against rapists and the culture that allows this. All decent men and women are in support of this, the angry men are not.

People of both sexes are maybe a bit irritable about some of the loopy ''academic'' fcukery that is being pushed as real science. And as for getting their equal rights now - how about this for equality..... The new channel 4 ''advisor on inclusion'' is Sue Pascoe who for 54 of her 58 years was a male but now identifies as a hormonal teenage girl.

"It's funny, I'm 55, I am very hormonal, I am going through puberty again which means that I am just getting to my teenage girl years - so watch out world."

http://www.barcroft.tv/former-hunt-master-sue-pascoe-transgender-journey

So actually due to inherent ideological contradictions women are being squeezed out of gender quotas by people who for the most part of their lives have been men. This is only an example - it's happening in sport, literary short lists, political gender quotas. Rock on.

TomSweeney

Malayalam

TomSweeney wrote: »

Hehe don't worry the age of women is over too. Once we get those external uteruses (uteri?) up and running, and a cryogenic store of scooped eggs and milked sperm stocked by binary drones, then we will all simply be genderless meat suits performing such tasks as machines cannot yet do and consuming mindlessly otherwise. With some elite designer lucky duckys augmented with AI immortality, of course. Can't wait

PlaneSpeeking

TomSweeney wrote: »

Good to see Anne Robinson still famous eh ?

suicide_circus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdb6aeZxKZU

PlaneSpeeking

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdb6aeZxKZU

Still hilarious!

suicide_circus

I'm still waiting for a CV with a gender studies degree to come across my desk.

PlaneSpeeking

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a CV with a gender studies degree to come across my desk.

Bin ?

mvl

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a CV with a gender studies degree to come across my desk.

who is saying these are degrees ? the article I read is saying classes, that do not equal degrees.

suicide_circus

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Bin ?

the rest of it would have to be seriously good to compensate

batgoat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well... if they're funded by the State, then, the State and it's body of education would have direct control over what is taught.



So, the university are the only ones to decide what is being taught...? I honestly doubt that's the case in most situations outside of Private institutions.

By your logic, a government would be entitled to cut funding for courses that reflect negatively upon the government. So if a politics course reflects negatively on the regime, they can cut funding and that's all good. It's a pretty dangerous line to allow academia to face such control although that's the way Orban is going with every facet of the state, he's even gone as far as warping the constitution to reflect his party's views. NGOs are being cut off because they don't tend to support him.