Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

DickSwiveller Returns

batgoat wrote: »

By your logic, a government would be entitled to cut funding for courses that reflect negatively upon the government. So if a politics course reflects negatively on the regime, they can cut funding and that's all good. It's a pretty dangerous line to allow academia to face such control although that's the way Orban is going with every facet of the state, he's even gone as far as warping the constitution to reflect his party's views. NGOs are being cut off because they don't tend to support him.

They support all the globalist, fashionable causes that the Hungarian people don't want imposed on them. Fair play to Hungary for standing up for themselves.

lawred2

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

Great news coming out of Hungary. Victor Orban's government have stopped universities offering courses in Gender Studies. It's about time these courses were exposed for the unscientific propaganda vehicles they are.

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/orban-bans-gender-studies-courses-in-hungary-report-says-1.6365826

what harm do you think those University classes were doing?

mvl

batgoat wrote: »

By your logic, a government would be entitled to cut funding for courses that reflect negatively upon the government. So if a politics course reflects negatively on the regime, they can cut funding and that's all good. It's a pretty dangerous line to allow academia to face such control although that's the way Orban is going with every facet of the state, he's even gone as far as warping the constitution to reflect his party's views. NGOs are being cut off because they don't tend to support him.

Logic - what logic ? this thread got way off topic, and in a wrong direction imo.

I would say this measure is same category as Orban's "Soros bill". Unfortunately other countries in the region are following this madness.

Rory28

This is a load of sh1t. I have no time for gender studies or the people that study it but I dont see the point in singling it out as a waste of money. Either stop funding to all frivolous courses or none. I won't pretend to know whats going on over in Hungary but this is worrying.

I am surprised at the amount of people backing this in here.

mvl

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

They support all the globalist, fashionable causes that the Hungarian people don't want imposed on them. Fair play to Hungary for standing up for themselves.

ffs - all the Hungarians I have in my family are disgusted with the censorship this prime minister is imposing. so please don't offend the ones that oppose Orban !

LLMMLL

Malayalam wrote: »

People of both sexes are maybe a bit irritable about some of the loopy ''academic'' fcukery that is being pushed as real science. And as for getting their equal rights now - how about this for equality..... The new channel 4 ''advisor on inclusion'' is Sue Pascoe who for 54 of her 58 years was a male but now identifies as a hormonal teenage girl.
http://www.barcroft.tv/former-hunt-master-sue-pascoe-transgender-journey

So actually due to inherent ideological contradictions women are being squeezed out of gender quotas by people who for the most part of their lives have been men. This is only an example - it's happening in sport, literary short lists, political gender quotas. Rock on.

That’s a bizarre interpretation of what’s going on there.

Pascoe is a woman so there’s no issue with gender quotas.

The “teenage girl” quote is obviously a tongue in cheek joke about experiencing hormones for the first time being like going through puberty. There is no suggestion that Pascoe thinks she’s a teenage girl.

The fact that you can’t see a clear joke speaks volumes.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I have came across CVs of people that have moved into IT from say Civil Engineering or they went back to college as mature students.

Haven't seen anyone with Gender Studies qualifications yet. Doubt I will as (no offence to either group) I wouldn't think there would be much overlap between someone once interested in Gender Studies and now IT - one is very philosophical, the other very science/engineering based.

Not sure how easy it would be to work with someone with a gender studies background - would be concerned at causing offence inadvertently and having a HR nightmare.

Lash Into The Pints

LLMMLL wrote: »

That’s a bizarre interpretation of what’s going on there.

Pascoe is a woman so there’s no issue with gender quotas.

The “teenage girl” quote is obviously a tongue in cheek joke about experiencing hormones for the first time being like going through puberty. There is no suggestion that Pascoe thinks she’s a teenage girl.

The fact that you can’t see a clear joke speaks volumes.

No he's a man and he will die a man.

If you believe crude surgery can turn a man into a woman you may as well believe in faries.

batgoat

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

They support all the globalist, fashionable causes that the Hungarian people don't want imposed on them. Fair play to Hungary for standing up for themselves.

You're supporting an extreme regime that is actively attacking freedoms. This includes freedom of association, academic freedom and freedom of establishment. So praise away but given the other regimes that you seem to adore, your views seem pretty terrible. You've never lived in such places but appear to think that such an extreme regime equates to Utopia when it has more in common with Stalinism or fascism. Eg your example of the Philippines which you appear to like, political opponents are murdered, death squads operate..

LLMMLL

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

No he's a man and he will die a man.

If you believe crude surgery can turn a man into a woman you may as well believe in faries.

She’s a woman.

batgoat

batgoat wrote: »

By your logic, a government would be entitled to cut funding for courses that reflect negatively upon the government. So if a politics course reflects negatively on the regime, they can cut funding and that's all good. It's a pretty dangerous line to allow academia to face such control although that's the way Orban is going with every facet of the state, he's even gone as far as warping the constitution to reflect his party's views. NGOs are being cut off because they don't tend to support him.

Well, I cant really be surprised that you would jump to an extreme. Seems standard fare these days.

The State provides funding and supervision of all educational programs at University level. So, they already have influence over what courses are to be offered, and the quality at which the courses are presented. Now, you could go ahead and prove the independence of public universities, but I doubt that will happen.

And I think you'll find that many political courses in Ireland, and other western countries do criticise the behavior of their respective governments/politicans and other countries behavior. I've seen no indication that western governments have stepped in to limit the range of courses... Nor that Hungary doing so, is likely to encourage such behavior.

In fact, due to the spread of pop psychology, and feminist ideology in, first, the US and later, into European University Academia, we see a very much "hands off" attitude from western governments regarding what is promoted in the universities. Otherwise, these Feminist theory or Gender Studies classes would be examined and 'forced' to justify their claims.

In many ways, considering the changes in American Universities regarding rape, personal rights, freedom of speech, etc which have proven to encourage such paranoia and divisiveness, I wish the State would step in to encourage Universities to get back to using proven and unbiased rationale in their courses, than these opinion piece style courses on Gender issues.. It's obvious that the Universities themselves are failing in their control of such movements.

Grayson

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Even MIT, long at the top of the world university rankings, has fallen prey to the bollocks:

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/womens-and-gender-studies/wgs-101-introduction-to-womens-and-gender-studies-fall-2014/syllabus/

One of the "learning" outcomes:



Nice bit of prejudice there eh ?

In the majority of the world it's the case that there is a divison of labour. It's quite clear. That's everywhere from saudi to India to the Philippines. Societies define male and female roles. What men do and what women do. It's less delineated in the west although there are still some differences. In the west it's still the case that women do most of the child rearing. Finland is the only country in the world where men spend more time with infants.

Now your position is that this isn't the case. It's simply untrue that there is any division of labour at all. is that correct? Or is it that you agree that there is a division of labour but you don't think it's worth looking into for some reason?

Their position is that there is a division of labour. And they seek to explain why it's the case. Their actual outcome for the course is a question, not an answer, and you think that asking a question is a prejudice.

Why would someone be against someone asking a question?

LLMMLL

So many people on this thread think they know what is taught in gender studies courses.

I actually don’t know so thought I’d look into it.

I looked at what is taught in TCD, just as the first university that sprang to mind and having no reason to believe that it’s course would be substantially different to other universities.

In TCD there seems to be no gender studies degree but there is a taught masters.

I downloaded the course handbook and took a look at the modules offered. Many of them seemed to have a historical or literary analysis basis but ignored them and looked for modules with a more modern political basis as I think that’s what people criticising gender studies are most concerned about.

I randomly chose an academic teaching one of these modules and looked at her research.

Basically, she writes mostly on human trafficking. Reading a summary of her latest book, it seems she is critical of the “Swedish model” of prostitution which criminalises the buyer (I.e. man), and critical of the “radical feminism” (her words) that led to this.

So let’s be honest. Nobody on this thread has any real idea of what is being taught on these courses.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

what harm do you think those University classes were doing?

what harm do you think those University classes were doing?

batgoat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, I cant really be surprised that you would jump to an extreme. Seems standard fare these days.

The State provides funding and supervision of all educational programs at University level. So, they already have influence over what courses are to be offered, and the quality at which the courses are presented. Now, you could go ahead and prove the independence of public universities, but I doubt that will happen.

And I think you'll find that many political courses in Ireland, and other western countries do criticise the behavior of their respective governments/politicans and other countries behavior. I've seen no indication that western governments have stepped in to limit the range of courses... Nor that Hungary doing so, is likely to encourage such behavior.

In fact, due to the spread of pop psychology, and feminist ideology in, first, the US and later, into European University Academia, we see a very much "hands off" attitude from western governments regarding what is promoted in the universities. Otherwise, these Feminist theory or Gender Studies classes would be examined and 'forced' to justify their claims.

In many ways, considering the changes in American Universities regarding rape, personal rights, freedom of speech, etc which have proven to encourage such paranoia and divisiveness, I wish the State would step in to encourage Universities to get back to using proven and unbiased rationale in their courses, than these opinion piece style courses on Gender issues.. It's obvious that the Universities themselves are failing in their control of such movements.

Eh, they actively went on the attack against the Central European University because George Soros is the founder. An Orban associated newspaper named scientists associated with it as "Mercenaries of Soros" . So yep, Orban's regime is very much so going on the offensive against those who aren't favourable to his regime. You're likely to try to justify it just because Soros' name is attached but the reality is, these moves are completely unacceptable and the European Commission have found them to be entirely illegal.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/05/hungarian-scientists-are-edge-country-poised-force-out-top-university

Lash Into The Pints

LLMMLL wrote: »

She’s a woman.

Nope. He's a man. He can't change his gender no more than I can change my race.

There are 2 genders.

Taytoland

Gender Studies is based in a mishmash of Peer-related papers, some valid research, and heaps of assumptions without solid foundations. But it's becoming more accepted in spite of it's lack of solid evidence. 

It will never have solid evidence because it's a load of nonsense. People are born male or female. Two different sexes. That's the reality, it's been like that for over a million years from our ancestors.

LLMMLL

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

Nope. He's a man. He can't change his gender no more than I can change my race.

There are 2 genders.

She’s a woman. Has nothing to do with race.

Keepaneye

mvl wrote: »

ffs - all the Hungarians I have in my family are disgusted with the censorship this prime minister is imposing. so please don't offend the ones that oppose Orban !

So basically nobody you know.

batgoat

LLMMLL wrote: »

So many people on this thread think they know what is taught in gender studies courses.

I actually don’t know so thought I’d look into it.

I looked at what is taught in TCD, just as the first university that sprang to mind and having no reason to believe that it’s course would be substantially different to other universities.

In TCD there seems to be no gender studies degree but there is a taught masters.

I downloaded the course handbook and took a look at the modules offered. Many of them seemed to have a historical or literary analysis basis but ignored them and looked for modules with a more modern political basis as I think that’s what people criticising gender studies are most concerned about.

I randomly chose an academic teaching one of these modules and looked at her research.

Basically, she writes mostly on human trafficking. Reading a summary of her latest book, it seems she is critical of the “Swedish model” of prostitution which criminalises the buyer (I.e. man), and critical of the “radical feminism” (her words) that led to this.

So let’s be honest. Nobody on this thread has any real idea of what is being taught on these courses.

As a person who has studied history and English, guessing modular content is similar. You read different perspectives, write essays based on the various stances and wouldn't necessarily agree with the dominant view. It's a pretty broad area, would have been a few modules in history and English on gender which makes absolute sense.

I feel like there's people on this thread who would be shocked that Marxist interpretations of history are studied etc but any lecturer I would have had would expect strong knowledge on all the views and for you to actually develop your own backed up view. People in this thread seem to be just jumping up and down about an area of academia that they have preconceived notions about.

Lash Into The Pints

LLMMLL wrote: »

She’s a woman. Has nothing to do with race.

He's a man. But hey, gender and race are social constructs. So if he can claim to be a man, why can't I claim to be black?

Arghus

This thread is full of nutters.

LLMMLL

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

He's a man. But hey, gender and race are social constructs. So if he can claim to be a man, why can't I claim to be black?

“He” isn’t claiming to be a man. She is a woman.

Of course you can claim you are black. Nobody is stopping you. Are you claiming you are black?

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, I get (now) what you're talking about, but we're still talking about Gender studies here. You've just acknowledged that the research/peer related material used is dodgy... so why defend it's inclusion in Universities?

My point is that literally every subject is the same in this regard. Those predatory journals exist in every field. So if you're against including gender studies because some of the peer reviewed stuff is dodgy than you should be against every single academic field. These dodgy journals and articles exist in every field of study.

Academics know this and they don't use that stuff. Most of them. You'll find some useless ones, in every field, who will be lazy and include them but it rarely happens. That gender studies paper you linked to has about as much chance of being used in a citation as the auto complete one.

I guarantee you that you'd find dodgy articles on every subject (History, genetics, engineering, anything at all) in dodgy journals too. What academics do though is ignore those journals and focus on the ones that have a reputation. It's the same way you and I would ignore a post on reddit as proof of anything, because it's fecking reddit, and we'd look elsewhere for our sources.

The guardian article I linked to earlier has a really good history of how these journals came about and the problems they cause.

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem is that Gender studies does have an influence in the world. The changes in our society (Okay, less so in Ireland, but it's spreading in other countries) reflect this drive to push one gender over another. Gender Studies is still predominately pro-female with many articles pointing to how men are the aggressors against females, being very selective in what Statistics or research they use to justify their stance.

Now, if we were talking about throwing in the caveat that Gender Studies should not be taken seriously, and encouraging people to treat it the same as many nightcourses, then I could understand the objections better. However, this thread seems to suggest that people are defending gender studies being banned simply because Orban is disliked.
.

See, you're working on the assumption that every gender studies course is the same and it's only created to subjugate men. It's not the case. I mentioned earlier in a post to someone else about the division of labour. I think we can both agree that in most countries in the world there are male and female jobs. In the western world this doesn't exist as much. Women here have a lot more options. But anyone who studies in this area would be studying in "gender studies" they may be anthropologists, psychologists, sociologists, historians or philosophers. But the common thread is that their studies all involve gender, or gender roles, in some way.

When gender studies is dismissed it's dismissing all of that. This is an area that's worthy of studies. It's a huge part of our world.

PlaneSpeeking

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

He's a man. But hey, gender and race are social constructs. So if he can claim to be a man, why can't I claim to be black?

The madness is already here my friend:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/rachel-dolezal-white-woman-black-racial-fluidity-accepted-transracial-naacp-a7653131.html

Lash Into The Pints

LLMMLL wrote: »

“He” isn’t claiming to be a man. She is a woman.

Of course you can claim you are black. Nobody is stopping you. Are you claiming you are black?

No because that would be as crazy as yer man claiming he is a woman.

I just find it odd how one form of mental illness is not only accepted but now being pushed as orthodox.

Mod: Banned, the mental illness crap is not welcome here.

batgoat

Arghus wrote: »

This thread is full of nutters.

It seems that some idiots have bought into a load of George Soros conspiracies so will use that to justify anything that Orban does and create a vision of Hungary that doesn't match the reality.

Sal Butamol

LLMMLL wrote: »

She’s a woman. Has nothing to do with race.

In his head. Has nothing to do with reality or science.

Are you anti-science and reality?

Lash Into The Pints

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

The madness is already here my friend:

Let's make it happen!

LLMMLL

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

No because that would be as crazy as yer man claiming he is a woman.

I just find it odd how one form of mental illness is not only accepted but now being pushed as orthodox.

She is a woman. There is nothing crazy about it.

It’s not a mental illness. Unless you think you know more than the APA?

PlaneSpeeking

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

Let's make it happen!

I'm tired of being a woman - I have zero girly side. I've already said I'm identifying as a gay man. Checked with the gay pals - they're welcoming me aboard.

Now I'm going to change from Irish to Swiss. Mainly for the chocolate, little for Roger Federer.

DickSwiveller Returns

batgoat wrote: »

It seems that some idiots have bought into a load of George Soros conspiracies so will use that to justify anything that Orban does and create a vision of Hungary that doesn't match the reality.

It's wonderful that you're so opinion to different opinions. Refreshing to see.

LLMMLL

Sal Butamol wrote: »

In his head. Has nothing to do with reality or science.

Are you anti-science and reality?

Nope I’m a scientist. Why would I be anti-science?

TomSweeney

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdb6aeZxKZU

She's delighted Trump won, how else could she do this level of virtue signalling ?

Taytoland

LLMMLL wrote: »

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

No because that would be as crazy as yer man claiming he is a woman.

I just find it odd how one form of mental illness is not only accepted but now being pushed as orthodox.

She is a woman. There is nothing crazy about it.

It’s not a mental illness. Unless you think you know more than the APA?

If someone said to you they are a horse or a crocodile would  you just say OK?

pjohnson

LLMMLL wrote: »

Nope I’m a scientist. Why would I be anti-science?

When did you start peddling this?

Lash Into The Pints

LLMMLL wrote: »

She is a woman. There is nothing crazy about it.

It’s not a mental illness. Unless you think you know more than the APA?

He chopped off his dick and took hormones. He's a castrated male. You may as well start the fires and summon the mob because this heretic is not backing down.

TomSweeney

lawred2 wrote: »

what harm do you think those University classes were doing?

hmm lets see now just a few ....



Lying and being disingenous about the "gender pay gap"
Wanting women to feel as victims and to blame all men for their problems.
Just general man hating and making this acceptable.

batgoat

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

It's wonderful that you're so opinion to different opinions. Refreshing to see.

I've yet to see you offer anything of particular worth to the thread. You've also stated that you support the Philippino government which operates death squads. So you're either incredibly ignorant or favour police states as an end goal.

DickSwiveller Returns

batgoat wrote: »

I've yet to see you offer anything of particular worth to the thread. You've also stated that you support the Philippino government which operates death squads. So you're either incredibly ignorant or favour police states as an end goal.

Where? Cite what I said exactly.

LLMMLL

Taytoland wrote: »

If someone said to you they are a horse or a crocodile would  you just say OK?

Ah the silliest argument ever raises its head.

Nobody claims to be a horse or crocodile. It’s just a made up stick to beat trans people with.

LLMMLL

pjohnson wrote: »

When did you start peddling this?

Peddling what?

Grayson

TomSweeney wrote: »

hmm lets see now just a few ....



Lying and being disingenous about the "gender pay gap"
Wanting women to feel as victims and to blame all men for their problems.
Just general man hating and making this acceptable.

I presume you've got a study that examined a large number of these courses and their content that backs up your assumption? Or is this what you imagine it's like? Because what I see here is very little on evidence and very strong on feeling/belief.

batgoat

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

Where? Cite what I said exactly.

It seems pretty clear that you view the Philippino government in a positive light. It also seems clear that you don't mind that the European commission found that the targeting of the European University is an attack on education.

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

Why is up to you, a sneering liberal in a prosperous country, to tell the people of Hungary or the Philippines who they should elect? You have a colonial mindset it seems.

DickSwiveller Returns

batgoat wrote: »

It seems pretty clear that you view the Philippino government in a positive light. It also seems clear that you don't mind that the European commission found that the targeting of the European University is an attack on education.

Your words "You've also stated that you support the Philippino government which operates death squads". I need a citation or else an apology.

PlaneSpeeking

Taytoland wrote: »

If someone said to you they are a horse or a crocodile would  you just say OK?

Just in case you get a spurious argument - I've that poster on ignore,f or the peace and quiet.

Otherkin - https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvxgwa/from-dragons-to-foxes-the-otherkin-community-believes-you-can-be-whatever-you-want-to-be

LLMMLL

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

He chopped off his dick and took hormones. He's a castrated male. You may as well start the fires and summon the mob because this heretic is not backing down.

Ah portraying yourself as under attack. No wonder you’re so entrenched. You don’t have to back down. You can continue to be ignorant.

She is a woman.

LLMMLL

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Just in case you get a spurious argument - I've that poster on ignore,f or the peace and quiet.

He keeps saying he has me on ignore but has since quoted me. Go figure.

mvl

Keepaneye wrote: »

So basically nobody you know.

Actually how about ... I married one ? that means I have an extra reason to observe what is happening with that country, while giving out to Yay sayers here.

super_furry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

Every time I see another one of these threads I’m reminded of this old Harry Enfield sketch, but sadly the posters involved wouldn’t recognise the fact that it’s a skit.