All Ireland football final 2nd September 2018 - MOD NOTE POST #1 #1187 UPDATED

WanderlustIre

C__MC wrote: »

Will Tyrone man mark Kilkenny and mc caffrey?

Really can’t see Tyrone out scoring Dublin but I watched the game in Omagh back and Tyrone definitely stood up to the dubs physcislly. Dublin were turnovered alot that day.

Now the question is can Tyrone lay hands on them like that in Croke Park?

1) Dublin In Omagh in super 8s arent the same beast as Dublin on all Ireland final .

2) Sludden will be man marked a d turned outside all day as Comer was(to great affect)

3) Dublin half back line will not be left wanting and will be first to everything.

Thats in my opinion.

FrancieBrady

WanderlustIre wrote: »

1) Dublin In Omagh in super 8s arent the same beast as Dublin on all Ireland final .

I'm sure Tyrone will be delighted to hear that Dublin are only setting out to beat them by their by now, almost, routine 1 point instead of 3.

WanderlustIre

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm sure Tyrone will be delighted to hear that Dublin are only setting out to beat them by their by now, almost, routine 1 point instead of 3.

Re read that and tell me what you mean cause i cant make head nor tail.

FrancieBrady

WanderlustIre wrote: »

Re read that and tell me what you mean cause i cant make head nor tail.

The beast that Dublin have routinely been in 'finals' is winning by 1 point. They won by 3 in Omagh.
Never mind, it was mere jest.

WanderlustIre

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The beast that Dublin have routinely been in 'finals' is winning by 1 point. They won by 3 in Omagh.
Never mind, it was mere jest.

Yes winning by 1 point over a very strong mayo side. Do you think this tyrone side would beat mayo of last year.

FrancieBrady

WanderlustIre wrote: »

Yes winning by 1 point over a very strong mayo side. Do you think this tyrone side would beat mayo of last year.

Absolutely think they would give them as good a game as Dublin.

I think Tyrone will try and capitalise on Dublin's weakspot for the final. Expecting a blitz of an opening as they try to turnover ball and unsettle Dublin. Looking forward to it.

Grandeeod

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely think they would give them as good a game as Dublin.

I think Tyrone will try and capitalise on Dublin's weakspot for the final. Expecting a blitz of an opening as they try to turnover ball and unsettle Dublin. Looking forward to it.

Is that a high ball into the square and going man to man?

WanderlustIre

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely think they would give them as good a game as Dublin.

I think Tyrone will try and capitalise on Dublin's weakspot for the final. Expecting a blitz of an opening as they try to turnover ball and unsettle Dublin. Looking forward to it.

Tyrone dont start quick, Look at them this year. They kick on late in the day.

FrancieBrady

WanderlustIre wrote: »

Tyrone dont start quick, Look at them this year. They kick on late in the day.

I would be expecting a different gameplan for a one off final tbh.
Could be wrong, they could decide to play it cagey and try to contain them.

WanderlustIre

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I would be expecting a different gameplan for a one off final tbh.
Could be wrong, they could decide to play it cagey and try to contain them.

They tried to contain us 12 months ago. Ifs not easily done. I think we could see one of the most one sided all irelands in a while. I hope im wrong id lose a tight one not as tight as 2011 though. Ticker wouldnt be able.

FrancieBrady

WanderlustIre wrote: »

They tried to contain us 12 months ago. Ifs not easily done. I think we could see one of the most one sided all irelands in a while. I hope im wrong id lose a tight one not as tight as 2011 though. Ticker wouldnt be able.

Different team to last year imo.
As we have seen over the last few years, all bets are off when it comes to finals, particularly for Dublin. They have consistently not been the same team in them.

Can Tyrone use that to their advantage? I don't know a team better equipped to it tbh.

Bonniedog

WanderlustIre wrote: »

Re read that and tell me what you mean cause i cant make head nor tail.

Careful now

Bonniedog

Dublin are not Monaghan and won't choke under pressure and a bit of gamesmanship.

Dubs by 6/7/8 points.

WanderlustIre

Bonniedog wrote: »

Careful now

?

WanderlustIre

Bonniedog wrote: »

Dublin are not Monaghan and won't choke under pressure and a bit of gamesmanship.

Dubs by 6/7/8 points.

Jesus christ the Bould Francie have ye hung drawn and quatered for that so he would.

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

Dublin are not Monaghan and won't choke under pressure and a bit of gamesmanship.

Dubs by 6/7/8 points.

Well they very well might have choked had they not decided to drag and pull men to the ground trying to prevent them scoring.
Will that gameplan be in action on Sunday?

Stoner

FrancieBrady wrote:

Absolutely think they would give them as good a game as Dublin.

I wouldn't necessarally agree Francie.
Even if Tyrone beat Dublin, I think that Mayo team at full tilt is set up better to tackle Ulster football. Maybe that's now an outdated opinion over the past 2 years or so as Dublin have improved againat northern teams, but mayo kicked down that door in 2013 with their own style.

Stoner

C__MC wrote:

Will Tyrone man mark Kilkenny and mc caffrey?

They will have to, but if Kilkenny continues to play as a forward this year and not as a half back like he did last year, particularly in the final, I think he'll be harder to watch if he keeps dropping into the square, i think he's scored 2-20ish so far this year


However I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up in a more conservative role

C__MC wrote:

Really can’t see Tyrone out scoring Dublin but I watched the game in Omagh back and Tyrone definitely stood up to the dubs physcislly. Dublin were turnovered alot that day.

They did, I think it will come down to footballing ability.

I've seen some mayo lad on the journal stating that the Dublin forwards are not better footballers than others it's their speed puts them into positions that are easier to shoot from.

However he was overlooking a few elements in his attempts to make a negative comment.

It's the movement of the forwards when they don't have the ball, the intelligent positioning to take backs away from the ball that creates the space.

Tyrone have struggled kicking points under pressure from Dublin for a number if years now. Their wide count is pretty poor.

Pointing towards conditioning, they worked very very hard for their scores in Omagh where as Dublin were more economical.

C Cavanagh is flying, the physical side of it is not an issue as both sides are flying.

Can the Tyrone units pull the Dublin back out of position. Can they remove some of the pressure they are under when shooting.

If they can then Dublin have a big issue imo.

FrancieBrady

Stoner wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarally agree Francie.
Even if Tyrone beat Dublin, I think that Mayo team at full tilt is set up better to tackle Ulster football. Maybe that's now an outdated opinion over the past 2 years or so as Dublin have improved againat northern teams, but mayo kicked down that door in 2013 with their own style.

Question was , 'would the Tyrone team of now beat the Mayo team that played Dublin last year'?

I think nobody can deny that the Tyrone team of now is a different animal to the team that collapsed last year in CP. That team ran Mayo close in the league in 2017 and give them a bit of a wallop in this year's league in March.

I stand by my claim that they would give a full tilt Mayo as good a game as Dublin.

Saint Sonner

Watched Unbreakable Bond on TG4 last night - got me right up for the match - A well made programme!!! Come on Tyrone

Stoner

FrancieBrady wrote:

I stand by my claim that they would give a full tilt Mayo as good a game as Dublin.

I understood the question. I don't think they would.

FrancieBrady

Stoner wrote: »

I understood the question. I don't think they would.

If Dublin should be worried about anything I think is that Harte and Tyrone seem to be becoming very good at coming up with 'game specific' tactics to win.
The way they set up against Monaghan for instance being the perfect gameplan to deal with them.
Harte would have gained a lot from Omagh (a game I think he was not unhappy to lose, the main goal was to explore a game plan)
If I am right about that, then the game in Omagh may prove to be very important.
I sense a complacency among Dublin support and a sense of inevitability among pundits about how this game is going to go, that expectation has been perfect breeding ground for many managers to stage an upset in the past.

One game-winner takes all, Harte loves those kind of stakes.

Just An Opinion

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If Dublin should be worried about anything I think is that Harte and Tyrone seem to be becoming very good at coming up with 'game specific' tactics to win.
The way they set up against Monaghan for instance being the perfect gameplan to deal with them.
Harte would have gained a lot from Omagh (a game I think he was not unhappy to lose, the main goal was to explore a game plan)
If I am right about that, then the game in Omagh may prove to be very important.
I sense a complacency among Dublin support and a sense of inevitability among pundits about how this game is going to go, that expectation has been perfect breeding ground for many managers to stage an upset in the past.

One game-winner takes all, Harte loves those kind of stakes.

Tbh it dosent matter a fiddlers if the supporters are complacent as long as the players aren’t (which I don’t think they will be) for what it’s worth I am in no way complacent about the challenge Tyrone can bring Sunday, I’m amazed the odds are what they are!

Bonniedog

Odds predict that if Dublin and Tyrone played one another eight times that Dublin would win seen times - 1/7.

I would think that 1/5 is more accurate. Dublin are due to give someone an almighty hammering in a final, and I think it might be Sunday.

WanderlustIre

Bonniedog wrote: »

Odds predict that if Dublin and Tyrone played one another eight times that Dublin would win seen times - 1/7.

I would think that 1/5 is more accurate. Dublin are due to give someone an almighty hammering in a final, and I think it might be Sunday.

Ditto

FrancieBrady

Just An Opinion wrote: »

Tbh it dosent matter a fiddlers if the supporters are complacent as long as the players aren’t (which I don’t think they will be) for what it’s worth I am in no way complacent about the challenge Tyrone can bring Sunday, I’m amazed the odds are what they are!

I know some like to imagine this Dublin team have the stuff of Gods or superhumans in them.
I have yet to see a pro or amateur team that cannot be affected by supporter and media expectations and complacency.
In fact I think it adequately explains Dublin's performances in finals past.

kilns

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Stoner wrote: »

I understood the question. I don't think they would.

If Dublin should be worried about anything I think is that Harte and Tyrone seem to be becoming very good at coming up with 'game specific' tactics to win.
The way they set up against Monaghan for instance being the perfect gameplan to deal with them.
Harte would have gained a lot from Omagh (a game I think he was not unhappy to lose, the main goal was to explore a game plan)
If I am right about that, then the game in Omagh may prove to be very important.
I sense a complacency among Dublin support and a sense of inevitability among pundits about how this game is going to go, that expectation has been perfect breeding ground for many managers to stage an upset in the past.

One game-winner takes all, Harte loves those kind of stakes.

But Harte wont be able to make the pitch as small as possible like he did in Omagh.  Tyrone will have a lot more space to cover than than they did in Omagh against a team who will keep the game well spread.  Tyrones only hope is to keep it a low scoring game chip in with at least 2 goals and keep their noses in front, so that they keep as many men behind the ball as possible, they simply dont have good enough players to come out and attack Dublin.
With regard Dublin being a dirty team, McGeeneys comments come to mind when the international rules were on, "if you want to box we will box, if you want to play football lets play football"  Thats how i see this Dublin team, if Tyrone as expected will try and drag them down to their level and slug it out Dublin can do that too.  But the point is that Dublin will not be the team who sets out with negative tactics coming into a game.

LoughNeagh2017

My neighbours have 3 Tyrone flags out now, that irritates me and I don't even care that much about GAA so I'd say it angers others more. Directly behind the grounds of a Derry club, I think they should have built their houses 10 minutes up the road.

BPKS

Bonniedog wrote: »

Odds predict that if Dublin and Tyrone played one another eight times that Dublin would win seen times - 1/7.

I would think that 1/5 is more accurate. Dublin are due to give someone an almighty hammering in a final, and I think it might be Sunday.

This is something worth considering. It might just annoy some Dublin players and their manager that they have won all their finals by a score.

Fine day forecast for Sunday. I would also forecast a double figure win for Dublin.

WanderlustIre

In the words of a great Dublin group

School day's over come on then Mickey,
Time to be getting your pit boots on,
On with your sark and moleskin trousers
time you were on your way.

castletownman

Any thoughts on potential match-ups?

I assume Hampsey will be tasked to keep tabs on Kilkenny. He is Harte's go-to man-marker this year and has largely done well.

I see Jack McCaffrey and Brian Fenton as the next two most important outlets for Dublin. I think Mattie Donnelly will pick up Fenton, and someone like Conor Meyler (or a bolter out of the blue) will be ordered to track Jack's runs forward- by any means necessary. Burns and Cavanagh will act as a double-pivot to block out the space.

In fairness, Con O'Callaghan and Paul Mannion haven't hit their full stride this year yet, and it will be interesting to see if Costello is given a start from the off. Ronan McNamee is an underrated defender anyways, and will more than likely mark Costello if/when he is sprang into action.

On the other side of the ball, I see Brian Howard and Peter Harte having a right auld duel, and Mick Fitzsimons staying close to Sludden. Tyrone will try to drag Cian O'Sullivan out of position by directly running at him, and maybe isolate the full-back line whenever they can.

I must say I am one of the few neutrals looking forward to the game-if only in anticipation of the tactical battles.

WanderlustIre

castletownman wrote: »

Any thoughts on potential match-ups?

I assume Hampsey will be tasked to keep tabs on Kilkenny. He is Harte's go-to man-marker this year and has largely done well.

I see Jack McCaffrey and Brian Fenton as the next two most important outlets for Dublin. I think Mattie Donnelly will pick up Fenton, and someone like Conor Meyler (or a bolter out of the blue) will be ordered to track Jack's runs forward- by any means necessary. Burns and Cavanagh will act as a double-pivot to block out the space.

In fairness, Con O'Callaghan and Paul Mannion haven't hit their full stride this year yet, and it will be interesting to see if Costello is given a start from the off. Ronan McNamee is an underrated defender anyways, and will more than likely mark Costello if/when he is sprang into action.

On the other side of the ball, I see Brian Howard and Peter Harte having a right auld duel, and Mick Fitzsimons staying close to Sludden. Tyrone will try to drag Cian O'Sullivan out of position by directly running at him, and maybe isolate the full-back line whenever they can.

I must say I am one of the few neutrals looking forward to the game-if only in anticipation of the tactical battles.

Conor meyler wouldnt hold track of Jack. He will end up commiting an arms length of fouls on him.

I think people are over looking Lee Brennan who is a smashing forward and kicks off both feet. Think he is very exciting to watch.

C__MC

I’d expect a strong Dublin start Sunday

The last two finals bar the replay and coc goal have seen Dublin be slugggish early on

WanderlustIre

C__MC wrote: »

I’d expect a strong Dublin start Sunday

The last two finals bar the replay and coc goal have seen Dublin be slugggish early on

If theres a goal in the first 10 mins boyles are doubling price on selected markets.

wandatowell

I'm a very, very casual fan of GAA and can't wait for the game.

Should be a battle.

WanderlustIre

wandatowell wrote: »

Should be a battle.

Think youre over egging it. Tyrone will be coming to a battle , Dublin have harder ****s

FrancieBrady

WanderlustIre wrote: »

Think youre over egging it. Tyrone will be coming to a battle , Dublin have harder ****s

The way you build yourself and Dublin up, is it any wonder your ticker comes under stress? :D

C__MC

WanderlustIre wrote: »

Conor meyler wouldnt hold track of Jack. He will end up commiting an arms length of fouls on him.

I think people are over looking Lee Brennan who is a smashing forward and kicks off both feet. Think he is very exciting to watch.

Wasn’t great v Monaghan

Stoner

FrancieBrady wrote:

One game-winner takes all, Harte loves those kind of stakes.

He didn't like it last year in the semi

He'd only one game plan and nothing else

That's an observation on my part.

To me if Tyrone could improve on their wide count it would be a significant factor, rather than hoping for some potential game plan.

If you were talking about the McGuinness I'd agree with your position more.

By all means Tyrone could do as you say, but to suggest that this team have hand huge success with specific detailed plans is inaccurate imo. Some messing around dealing with width and driving down the middle with Monaghan is not a great indicator here. A far better model is the Tyrone Dublin game last year


C Cavanagh was marginalised in Omagh, so he has a long way to go to turn that into some master game winning performance.

That said he was the best Tyrone player in the semi last year.

Sure we'll see.

FrancieBrady

Stoner wrote: »

He didn't like it last year in the semi

He'd only one game plan and nothing else

That's an observation on my part.

To me if Tyrone could improve on their wide count it would be a significant factor, rather than hoping for some potential game plan.

If you were talking about the McGuinness I'd agree with your position more.

By all means Tyrone could do as you say, but to suggest that this team have hand huge success with specific detailed plans is inaccurate imo. Some messing around dealing with width and driving down the middle with Monaghan is not a great indicator here. A far better model is the Tyrone Dublin game last year


C Cavanagh was marginalised in Omagh, so he has a long way to go to turn that into some master game winning performance.

That said he was the best Tyrone player in the semi last year.

Sure we'll see.

Yeh we will see, very soon.

I think it is pointless talking about a year ago tbh.
Look at Mayo a year ago - pushing Dublin to dragging them down to stop them in an All Ireland final.

A year later - not able to make the Super 8's, going out to Kildare who failed to win a game in the Super 8's

Stoner

FrancieBrady wrote:

I think it is pointless talking about a year ago tbh. Look at Mayo a year ago - pushing Dublin to dragging them down to stop them in an All Ireland final.

Yeah true.

Who'd have thought. Keep it lit Francie

eagle eye

This game is a foregone conclusion, surprised at the amount of people who think it might be close. Are they just trying to convince themselves?
I certainly won't be watching it, would much rather watch whatever Rugby or good soccer match is on at the same time. Pointless watching something where you know the winner before it starts. I knew the winner 12 months ago.

FrancieBrady

Stoner wrote: »

Yeah true.

Who'd have thought. Keep it lit Francie

Never fear!

robbiezero

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Question was , 'would the Tyrone team of now beat the Mayo team that played Dublin last year'?

I think nobody can deny that the Tyrone team of now is a different animal to the team that collapsed last year in CP. That team ran Mayo close in the league in 2017 and give them a bit of a wallop in this year's league in March.

I stand by my claim that they would give a full tilt Mayo as good a game as Dublin.

Nobody can assert that for certain until after the game on Sunday. If they get slaughtered like last year, then they are the same or at least a very similar animal to last year.

rossie1977

eagle eye wrote: »

This game is a foregone conclusion, surprised at the amount of people who think it might be close. Are they just trying to convince themselves?
I certainly won't be watching it, would much rather watch whatever Rugby or good soccer match is on at the same time. Pointless watching something where you know the winner before it starts. I knew the winner 12 months ago.

Dublin haven't played well in any of the recent AI finals so that should give Tyrone hope. They basically fell over the line in each of those games. If you go back to 2016 Mayo should be kicking themselves with how they only drew that first game. Of the starting 15 that day Dublin only scored four points from play, Rock missed easy enough frees throughout and Fenton at times looked very nervous.

Of course on the flip side of that Dublin are due a big performance in a final. They have been playing in first and second gear all summer so might turn it on in the final.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I know some like to imagine this Dublin team have the stuff of Gods or superhumans in them.
I have yet to see a pro or amateur team that cannot be affected by supporter and media expectations and complacency.
In fact I think it adequately explains Dublin's performances in finals past.

If that is the case, they may have learned from that, and adjusted accordingly.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

If that is the case, they may have learned from that, and adjusted accordingly.

They may have.
That is why I think you will see an all out approach from Tyrone from the start to try and spread doubt, they will be encouraged by the fact they got under Dublin's skin in Omagh.

Gavin will approach this game in his usual assured methodical way, it is what Harte will come up with is that is fascinating. He'll dearly want this I think and then maybe bow out. He may turn out to have feet of clay but bring it on, I say.

bucketybuck

Stoner wrote: »

Tyrone have struggled kicking points under pressure from Dublin for a number if years now. Their wide count is pretty poor.

Stoner wrote: »

To me if Tyrone could improve on their wide count it would be a significant factor, rather than hoping for some potential game plan.

This is my expectation for the game, I think we will see a lot of poor shot selection from Tyrone, a lot of wides and balls dropped short and eventually 3/4 of the starting front 6 replaced.

They will compete for a period but won't keep the scoreboard ticking over consistently, and will eventually fall away on the back of that.

If I'm wrong then I am wrong, but come sunday evening I suspect I won't be far away with that prediction.

WanderlustIre

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The way you build yourself and Dublin up, is it any wonder your ticker comes under stress? :D

I cant help it.

WanderlustIre

C__MC wrote: »

Wasn’t great v Monaghan

Still coming back from that injury if fit hell be a danger