All Ireland football final 2nd September 2018 - MOD NOTE POST #1 #1187 UPDATED

BarryD2

Not much of a buzz leading up to this. I guess as regards the neutrals, who cares?

If there's one team that's probably disliked more by the neutrals than the Dubs, then it's Mickey Harte's.

Grandeeod

BarryD2 wrote: »

Not much of a buzz leading up to this. I guess as regards the neutrals, who cares?

If there's one team that's probably disliked more by the neutrals than the Dubs, then it's Mickey Harte's.

Well as I'm not living in Dublin anymore, I'm certainly not feeling any buzz. I'm listening to a lot of supposed neutrals insisting Dublin will run away with it, but I'm so paranoid at this stage that I think they're winding me up.:eek:

WanderlustIre

Grandeeod wrote: »

Well as I'm not living in Dublin anymore, I'm certainly not feeling any buzz. I'm listening to a lot of supposed neutrals insisting Dublin will run away with it, but I'm so paranoid at this stage that I think they're winding me up.:eek:

Really ? Are you not very very confident.

mfceiling

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is my expectation for the game, I think we will see a lot of poor shot selection from Tyrone, a lot of wides and balls dropped short and eventually 3/4 of the starting front 6 replaced.

They will compete for a period but won't keep the scoreboard ticking over consistently, and will eventually fall away on the back of that.

If I'm wrong then I am wrong, but come sunday evening I suspect I won't be far away with that prediction.

I'm a tyrone man living in dublin and I have to say that this is probably the most accurate assessment of what will "probably" happen on Sunday.

WanderlustIre

Nobody up on harcourt street for tonights review of final?

Grandeeod

WanderlustIre wrote: »

Really ? Are you not very very confident.

Very very confident. But listening to some lads and lassies (non Dubs) going on about Dublin winning this handy enough, I'm wondering if they just want me to agree so they can feckin hijack me if Tyrone pulled it off. Maybe I'm wrong to be paranoid. It's a difficult one for me this year. I usually relocate to Dublin for the final, but this year I have to watch it with the local neutrals. Scary sh1t.:eek:

Hammer Archer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Question was , 'would the Tyrone team of now beat the Mayo team that played Dublin last year'?

I think nobody can deny that the Tyrone team of now is a different animal to the team that collapsed last year in CP. That team ran Mayo close in the league in 2017 and give them a bit of a wallop in this year's league in March.

I stand by my claim that they would give a full tilt Mayo as good a game as Dublin.

This Tyrone team are also the one who were absolutely steeped to get out of Navan with a win after extra time back in June.
I genuinely cannot see any hope for Tyrone. Meath wouldn't get anywhere close to Dublin nowadays.

I genuinely cannot see any chance of Tyrone keeping this close. While it is true that Dublin haven't performed in finals (though I personally think that people don't give Mayo enough credit for their performances), at least they've been there and have won every single final. It's been 10 years since Tyrone have been there and it's a completely new experience for a good chunk of their players.

Don't think Dublin will perform, but I think they'll still win comfortably and bring the curtain down on an awful season.

LoughNeagh2017

My neighbour now has about 5 Tyrone flags out, you wouldn't have seen as many red hands at the Battle of Clontibret, I hope Derry get to an AI final in his life time so we can remind him what county he lives in.

Bonniedog

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

My neighbour now has about 5 Tyrone flags out, you wouldn't have seen as many red hands at the Battle of Clontibret, I hope Derry get to an AI final in his life time so we can remind him what county he lives in.

This is really annoying you

If it's any consolation friend of mine from Gortin can still become incoherently apoplectic when he recalls people in south Derry putting up Dublin flags before the 1995 final

Powerhouse

[QUOTE=rossie1977;

If you go back to 2016 Mayo should be kicking themselves with how they only drew that first game.

.[/QUOTE]


This has been exaggerated. Dublin were five points ahead at half-time and three ahead with two minutes to go. Mayo started the game well but didn’t get much traction after that even though Dublin did not play well.

Also with regard to all the other finals just because Dublin aren’t winning the by 20 points doesn’t mean they’re not playing well. Their opposition deserves credit too and let’s not forget the role of the weather in the 2015 final.

Powerhouse

WanderlustIre wrote: »

Nobody up on harcourt street for tonights review of final?

They must be fairly confident of the outcome if they’re reviewing it four days before it happens.

patmac

Hoping for a draw meself, then another and another, then that 45 shoot out goes on forever and the whole thing is declared null and void.

WanderlustIre

Powerhouse wrote: »

They must be fairly confident of the outcome if they’re reviewing it four days before it happens.

It was meant to read preview. I was driving

homerjay2005

this is the most low key all ireland final ive ever known, you wouldnt even know it was on.

the lack of excitement is bizzare, i dont think the move to this point of the year has worked or else people are just bored sick of football and have had enough of it.

bucketybuck

Its the super 8's.

A bracket format where after every round the winners move on and half the teams go home builds excitement, with every round progress is made and the stakes get higher until a crescendo is reached at the final.

The super 8's interrupted that, now in the middle of your tournament you have teams losing matches but not being eliminated, losing teams sitting back trying to keep the score down and dead rubber matches killing the competitions momentum.

Then the semi's and the final are supposed to pick up where the provincials left off, in terms of momentum?

Take Tyrone for example, in a normal year they should be on a roll, having won 4/5 games in a row and building up the sort of head of steam that would give genuine hope of beating Dublin in the final. Nope. With the super 8's they have in fact been beaten by Dublin already, in their home ground just a few weeks ago. Momentum lost and already beaten by their opponents in the final, and people wonder why there is little buzz about the final?

The super 8's were always a stupid, horrible idea and this is just one of many examples as to why.

seligehgit

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this is the most low key all ireland final ive ever known, you wouldnt even know it was on.

the lack of excitement is bizzare, i dont think the move to this point of the year has worked or else people are just bored sick of football and have had enough of it.

The seemingly inevitable outcome?

dundalkfc10

https://www.gumtree.ie/a-tickets/cork/2-premium-tickets-all-ireland-final-dublin-vs-tyrone-sun-sept-2nd/1002828844330911088123909

€700 for 2 Premium Tickets!

Some scum about

Stoner

bucketybuck wrote:

Take Tyrone for example, in a normal year they should be on a roll, having won 4/5 games in a row and building up the sort of head of steam that would give genuine hope of beating Dublin in the final. Nope. With the super 8's they have in fact been beaten by Dublin already, in their home ground just a few weeks ago. Momentum lost and already beaten by their opponents in the final, and people wonder why there is little buzz about the final?

I agree with everything you've said. Not a fan

However the case above is a contrast to some suggesting a team should not have to beat a Kerry or Dublin twice

Gael85

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

https://www.gumtree.ie/a-tickets/cork/2-premium-tickets-all-ireland-final-dublin-vs-tyrone-sun-sept-2nd/1002828844330911088123909

€700 for 2 Premium Tickets!

Some scum about

I hope they're tracked down and banned from getting GAA tickets for life. Absolute scum.

WanderlustIre

Gael85 wrote: »

I hope they're tracked down and banned from getting GAA tickets for life. Absolute scum.

If you pay 700 euro you need your head examined

FrancieBrady

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

https://www.gumtree.ie/a-tickets/cork/2-premium-tickets-all-ireland-final-dublin-vs-tyrone-sun-sept-2nd/1002828844330911088123909

€700 for 2 Premium Tickets!

Some scum about

I would never and have never sold a ticket for more than face value, but at the end of the day they only sell for these prices because somebody is prepared to pay them.

That's just the 'market' behaving perfectly normally.

Gael85

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I would never and have never sold a ticket for more than face value, but at the end of the day they only sell for these prices because somebody is prepared to pay them.

That's just the 'market' behaving perfectly normally.

People are stupid paying that money. A lot of counties are sending tickets back . I got 3 tickets from other counties(will give to family and friends).

WanderlustIre

Gael85 wrote: »

People are stupid paying that money. A lot of counties are sending tickets back . I got 3 tickets from other counties(will give to family and friends).

Yeah without a doubt. Ive given tickets to peoole off here already. I expect pints in return hahha

FrancieBrady

Gael85 wrote: »

People are stupid paying that money. A lot of counties are sending tickets back . I got 3 tickets from other counties(will give to family and friends).

For this game maybe they are stupid. But as a rule, the market will decide the price.
If a ticket is rare (like a diamond or painting) it will capture a higher price. You would never call an art dealer or jeweler 'scum' because he has some expensive stuff in the window. It is just the way the world works.
The GAA up their prices when there is more demand too.

adgib

If anyone has a spare ticket or 2 ,I'll take it

JB81

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its the super 8's.

A bracket format where after every round the winners move on and half the teams go home builds excitement, with every round progress is made and the stakes get higher until a crescendo is reached at the final.

The super 8's interrupted that, now in the middle of your tournament you have teams losing matches but not being eliminated, losing teams sitting back trying to keep the score down and dead rubber matches killing the competitions momentum.

Then the semi's and the final are supposed to pick up where the provincials left off, in terms of momentum?

Take Tyrone for example, in a normal year they should be on a roll, having won 4/5 games in a row and building up the sort of head of steam that would give genuine hope of beating Dublin in the final. Nope. With the super 8's they have in fact been beaten by Dublin already, in their home ground just a few weeks ago. Momentum lost and already beaten by their opponents in the final, and people wonder why there is little buzz about the final?

The super 8's were always a stupid, horrible idea and this is just one of many examples as to why.

Disagree here. Maybe that was the problem last year, on a roll, steamrolling teams, no contest and then bang, savaged by the dubs, we weren't ready/tested enough.

This year take Monaghan twice, Meath, Donegal, Dublin in Omagh. Tests, proper tests. You learn more from defeats ( see Monaghan ), and I think the Dublin game in the Super eights was important and will stand to us. WIll we win, I have no idea. Will we be hammered, no chance....

adgib

Geniune fan by the way, normally Get tickets up north, but not this year, with an Ulster team playin8

seamus

You know, this "hasn't been tested" thing, I can't really give much credence to any more. I think it's a case of people looking for patterns and finding them even where they don't exist.

Dublin have won 14 of the last 17 Leinster finals. For the last decade, they have virtually steamrolled the entire Leinster championship without breaking a sweat. And when they landed in the All-Ireland, that phrase kept coming up, "haven't been tested this year".

And some would see the continual crashing out in Quarters and Semis as proof that Dublin needed more games to make it work, they weren't being tested enough to become All-Ireland material.

Since 2011, nothing has changed in Leinster. Dublin still steamroll the championship. They're "not being tested", but they're now winning the games at the national level.

So it seems that being "tested" is of little importance. Like a team needs a good scare to wake them up. If that's the case, it means the coaching is lacklustre and discipline is poor. I don't really see evidence of that in any of the top-tier teams.

Tyrone having "been tested" as a benchmark for how they'll do seems (IMO) to be more wishful thinking than anything else.

FrancieBrady

seamus wrote: »

You know, this "hasn't been tested" thing, I can't really give much credence to any more. I think it's a case of people looking for patterns and finding them even where they don't exist.

Dublin have won 14 of the last 17 Leinster finals. For the last decade, they have virtually steamrolled the entire Leinster championship without breaking a sweat. And when they landed in the All-Ireland, that phrase kept coming up, "haven't been tested this year".

And some would see the continual crashing out in Quarters and Semis as proof that Dublin needed more games to make it work, they weren't being tested enough to become All-Ireland material.

Since 2011, nothing has changed in Leinster. Dublin still steamroll the championship. They're "not being tested", but they're now winning the games at the national level.

So it seems that being "tested" is of little importance. Like a team needs a good scare to wake them up. If that's the case, it means the coaching is lacklustre and discipline is poor. I don't really see evidence of that in any of the top-tier teams.

Tyrone having "been tested" as a benchmark for how they'll do seems (IMO) to be more wishful thinking than anything else.

It is as simple as this imo. Do Tyrone have that little bit more, that extra tactical nous to do better than Mayo or even do a Donegal.

As a Monaghan man I would prefer to meet any Mayo team of the last decade in a final than Tyrone.

I just think if they are still in the game at the end like Mayo then they are significantly more likely to win than Mayo.

They might never get near it. I realise that too.
I love a tantalizing All Ireland and I hope we are not disappointed by a runaway win.

JB81

I don't think it applies to Dublin as much as it does to Tyrone to be fair.

This Dublin team for the last 4/5/6 years have been the best, by far. There are not many teams capable of even giving them a test, and because of the nature of the championship, the teams that can/did they only meet them, meaningfully, maybe once a year.

And when they did meet, they were pushed to their limits and came through it. Imagine if Dublin had met Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal and Kerry in a league based championship during the course of a year, and had a few close matches and maybe even a defeat.

The kind of manager Jim Gavin is, he would have learned from these and when they met again say in a final, for instance last year, I think Dublin would have got the better of Mayo with a little more to spare. So I think competitive games are very important to any team. But moreso for Tyrone/the underdog.

Tyrone are underdogs, Dublin have better players, and are a better team.
These tests were needed to ensure that our players know they need to be mentally and physically switched on for 75 minutes + . And MH needs to know certain players are capable of handling that type of pressure/performance level.

Trent Houseboat

Good point Seamus, ulster is the most "testing" provincial championship, but has only produced one All Ireland win in the past decade.
Connaught is the second most testing and hasn't produced any.

Tests may have nothing to do with it.

JB81

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

Good point Seamus, ulster is the most "testing" provincial championship, but has only produced one All Ireland win in the past decade.
Connaught is the second most testing and hasn't produced any.

Tests may have nothing to do with it.

Which is why the back door, and the Super Eights means teams can get pushed to their limits, more often.
And to be fair none of the Provincial Championships are really that competitive anymore, when I genuinely do believe some teams would prefer going through the back door.

I think they need a serious look at. I assume its the Provincial Councils who would have any issues with them being abolished. But maybe a bit of thinking outside the box. Something like they replace the 'pre-season' cups.

Results then are responsible for your seeding for the National League which in turn would contribute to your seeding in a draw for a Champions League style Championship ( i read this somewhere before from some journalist/ex player ) and thought it was interesting.

All games would mean something.

WanderlustIre

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

Good point Seamus, ulster is the most "testing" provincial championship, but has only produced one All Ireland win in the past decade.
Connaught is the second most testing and hasn't produced any.

Tests may have nothing to do with it.

Its all about the funding

Powerhouse

JB81 wrote: »

Disagree here. Maybe that was the problem last year, on a roll, steamrolling teams, no contest and then bang, savaged by the dubs, we weren't ready/tested enough.

This year take Monaghan twice, Meath, Donegal, Dublin in Omagh. Tests, proper tests. You learn more from defeats ( see Monaghan ), and I think the Dublin game in the Super eights was important and will stand to us. WIll we win, I have no idea. Will we be hammered, no chance....

Not sure this has anything more than cliché value to be honest. Galway hurlers were "tested" to the nth degree going into the hurling final and gave a flat performance on the day having left the best of it behind them it seemed. And if a team genuinely had to rely on defeats to learn more then Dublin would be wandering about in a state of perpetual ignorance. But they seem to be doing okay. The best teams rarely lose which is why they are considered the best teams. What do they do for lessons if they are deprived of defeats?

Powerhouse

JB81 wrote: »

a Champions League style Championship

Just wondering what on earth this means?

robbiezero

Tests can be very useful for a team, but are not the be all and end all as said above.
Had Dublin got a good test in Leinster in 2014, they could well be going for 6 in a row this Sunday. The holes in their defence that year were only exposed in knock out championship.
While Tyrone had some tough games coming into last years game v the Dubs, they had not faced anything like the juggernaut that was Dublin and were completely unprepared both on the field and on the line for what came at them. At least this year they know and can prepare for that, however good it may do them, but at least they might not be beaten by half time like last year.
Dublin are a good bit ahead of everyone else and are a very experienced side with a hugely strong panel and so don't really need the "testing" that other teams might although I am sure they will have learnt a few things from the Galway game that might stand to them Sunday.
Teams that are weaker with less experience need the testing more e.g. Kerry this year, I am sure Eamonn Fitzmaurice would have loved a few testing games in Munster to find out more about where his team were at.

JB81

Powerhouse wrote: »

Just wondering what on earth this means?

An all Ireland championship based on champions league format. Thought it was self explanatory really. ðŸ˜

We have almost the perfect number of competing teams

Are Am Eye

Powerhouse wrote: »

Just wondering what on earth this means?

Away goals count double.

Powerhouse

JB81 wrote: »

An all Ireland championship based on champions league format. Thought it was self explanatory really. ðŸ˜

We have almost the perfect number of competing teams

I just don't understand what is meant by champions league format. In that competition there are round robin groups which are followed by knockout matches. But this is the case in many competitions like the world cup and the rugby would cup. Just wondering what it is about the champions league that makes that the go-to comparison. Are we talking about teams playing over two legs or something?

WanderlustIre

Powerhouse wrote: »

I just don't understand what is meant by champions league format. In that competition there are round robin groups which are followed by knockout matches. But this is the case in many competitions like the world cup and the rugby would cup. Just wondering what it is about the champions league that makes that the go-to comparison. Are we talking about teams playing over two legs or something?

No 2 legs wouldnt be compatible. The old format and draw system worked fine.

JB81

Powerhouse wrote: »

I just don't understand what is meant by champions league format. In that competition there are round robin groups which are followed by knockout matches. But this is the case in many competitions like the world cup and the rugby would cup. Just wondering what it is about the champions league that makes that the go-to comparison. Are we talking about teams playing over two legs or something?

8 groups of four (like super eights). Maybe one group of five teams needed as London and New York make it 33 competitors . Top two go through. Last 16. Qf . Sf. Final. Knockout games.

It's the go to comparison because it would be a good fair format. Equal number of games for all.

Your focused too much on the fact I said champions league rather than the actual format. So let's call it rugby world cup format for you.

Powerhouse

JB81 wrote: »

8 groups of four (like super eights). Maybe one group of five teams needed as London and New York make it 33 competitors . Top two go through. Last 16. Qf . Sf. Final. Knockout games.

It's the go to comparison because it would be a good fair format. Equal number of games for all.

Your focused too much on the fact I said champions league rather than the actual format. So let's call it rugby world cup format for you.

Well, a champions league format is certainly is not anyway since the teams don't play over two legs.

Rugby world cup format? Yes, you can use that for me. For everyone else you can just say a round robin first round followed by knockout games.

Obviously the concept of groups of four involving, say, Dublin, Limerick, London and Antrim; or Kerry, Wicklow, Offaly and Fermanagh is absurd and would be like watching paint dry.

Even your beloved champions league has the same team winning it every year and usually the same teams in the semi-finals most of the time, and at least that has the populations and hype to fill grounds to some extent. The idea that just because there happens to be 32 counties there should be 8 groups of 4 is as flawed as it gets. There isn't even the quality in depth to sustain the Super 8 never mind flogging the weaker counties to no avail. People simply don't want to watch that and players don't want to play in it.

bucketybuck

Play the provincials and when they are done have a 32 county open draw and a straight knockout competition.

That remains by the far the most logical format for an All Ireland competition. It gives all teams 2 games minimum, the draws provide marketing hype, the random nature allows for shocks and surprise results, the knockout factor creates tension and high stakes, the open draw allows for interesting games at any stage, the best teams will still reach the later stages the majority of the time, and less games overall means the GAA might for once allow their clubs to play some football.

Of course, its not the best format for maximising revenue and so it will never happen, got to get those dollar bills after all.

ArnoldJRimmer

Have to say, the whole 8 groups of 4 doesn't appeal to me at all. In the mid 90s they tried this with the national league (4 groups of 8 encompassing teams from all divisions), and just led to almighy hammerings week in week out. I think the Super 8's deserves a bit of patience, but tweak it so that provincial winners get their home game first, and have the Croke Park games in the middle. that way provincial winners are rewarded, a big crowd will definitely show up on day one, and week two in Croker will have some do or die games for more excitement

Back to the game on Sunday, starting to really look forward to it now. Even though all logic points to a comfortable enough Dublin win, the last couple of years have produced great finals. Up to Tyrone now to put in a performance

JB81

Powerhouse wrote: »

Well, a champions league format is certainly is not anyway since the teams don't play over two legs.

Rugby world cup format? Yes, you can use that for me. For everyone else you can just say a round robin first round followed by knockout games.

Obviously the concept of groups of four involving, say, Dublin, Limerick, London and Antrim; or Kerry, Wicklow, Offaly and Fermanagh is absurd and would be like watching paint dry.

Even your beloved champions league has the same team winning it every year and usually the same teams in the semi-finals most of the time, and at least that has the populations and hype to fill grounds to some extent. The idea that just because there happens to be 32 counties there should be 8 groups of 4 is as flawed as it gets. There isn't even the quality in depth to sustain the Super 8 never mind flogging the weaker counties to no avail. People simply don't want to watch that and players don't want to play in it.

If you thought I actually meant two legged games then you are having a laugh. If you didn't you're only on the wind up.. so let's have our opinions because at the end of the day that's all they are.
The weaker counties are getting flogged anyway.

Last ten all Ireland - 5 different winners
Last ten champs leagues - 5 different winners
Last ten rugby worlds - 4 different winners
Last ten soccer world cups - 6 different winners

So not sure of your point.

Your groups mentioned are also exaggerated. Something like Kerry, roscommon, Meath and Sligo might be more accurate. Dublin, cork, fermanagh and carlow.

Not hard to pick the winners.
But if your telling me the other teams wouldn't fancy a crack at the second place then fine. Guaranteed three games. To say players wouldn't want to play in it it's hearsay.
And as far as nobody wanting to see it, I think the attendances are showing a flawed system already.

One thing I think we can all agree on is something needs to change.

Powerhouse

JB81 wrote: »

If you thought I actually meant two legged games then you are having a laugh.

Well, the most salient feature of the Champions League is that every game bar the final is two-legged affair (even within the round-robin) so it is impossible to hear "Champions League format" without asking that question. The competition has no other specifically defining feature. It is not obvious to me what you meant in that sense.

The idea of a round-robin followed by knockout matches is as old as the hills - the very first World Cup in 1930, for example, was organised that way, as have most World Cups since and I am sure that was hardly the first instance of it. It was also used in the Rugby World Cup before the Champions League began. As it happens the World Cup (soccer or rugby) is the exact same format you suggest even down to (in the case of the soccer one) the 32 teams with 8 groups of 4. Of course in the World Cup it is actually a viable format with at least a reasonable doubt about the outcomes in many cases. In Gaelic Football it would be an insane idea unless ensuring empty grounds and turkey-shoots is what you're after.

Getting back to the Champions League itself - the reason the round robin part was brought in in the first place was to increase revenue by having more big matches and to prevent high-revenue clubs being knocked out early. Much as the GAA loves revenue these round-robin games early on would ultimately be loss-makers (low crowds plus the cost of more training) and the prospect of the bigger teams being knocked out would go from low at the moment to absolutely zero. And the arses would be bored off everybody. The only argument for a round robin football championship is the pure chance that this country has 32 counties. It is a mathematical argument not a football argument and a bad bad idea.

Powerhouse

JB81 wrote: »

Your groups mentioned are also exaggerated. Something like Kerry, roscommon, Meath and Sligo might be more accurate. Dublin, cork, fermanagh and carlow.

Why is Kerry, Roscommon, Meath, Sligo more accurate? Kerry and Roscommon will both start next year's National League in Division 1. Meath are a Division 2 team. Why would you have two Division 1 teams and a Division 2 team in the same group? I assumed you would want it to be seeded? No?

Likewise Dublin, a division 1 team, are, in your thoughts, in a group with two Division 2 teams (2019 League) - Cork and Fermanagh? with no Diviosn 4 teams? Why? Are you proposing to put all the Division 4 teams in the same groups?

You are the one exaggerating the groups I would suggest.

ropg

Tyrone team named:

Tyrone (All-Ireland SFC final v Dublin): N Morgan; M McKernan, R McNamee, P Hampsey; T McCann, F Burns, P Harte; C Cavanagh, C McShane; M Donnelly, N Sludden, K McGeary; M Bradley, R Donnelly, C McAliskey

Subs: M O'Neill, L Brennan, R Brennan, M Cassidy, H Loughran, C McCann, D McClure, A McCrory, HP McGeary, C Meyler, R O'Neill

Stoner

Nice bench if he can hold off on starting some of them.


Might lead to a decent championship quarter

WanderlustIre

Stoner wrote: »

Nice bench if he can hold off on starting some of them.


Might lead to a decent championship quarter

Conor meyler apparently said hes fine to start and brennan will be in over bradley