All Ireland football final 2nd September 2018 - MOD NOTE POST #1 #1187 UPDATED

STB.

castletownman wrote: »

You must be getting a bit nervous ahead of September 2nd

Always

Genuinely I think that Mickey will set out to disrupt the flow of the game for a start. There'll be dragging diving and cards. Lots of cards.

And that's fine. What annoys me the most is the gamesmanship that I've seen Tyrone players adopting by running and encroaching on static free takers. They did it against Dublin in Omagh and Monaghan at Croke Park. They have been doing it for some time and refs have been ignoring it.

STB.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

yobr wrote: »

I was responding to your second point about the tactical battle between the managers. In that context, previous meetings are important, and I think it’s clear that Gavin has the upper hand.

Gavin you would have to say, based on the stats and facts, has an issue with getting his teams to perform to their high scoring best in finals. Winning only one by more than a point. Harte has won his by 3 points or more with teams not renowned for racking up high scores.

Just stating the fact that there is a chink there that another can exploit.

What exactly has Harte been winning with this current crop of players

You seem to be missing the winning part in those points you are trying to make!

yobr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gavin you would have to say, based on the stats and facts, has an issue with getting his teams to perform to their high scoring best in finals. Winning only one by more than a point. Harte has won his by 3 points or more with teams not renowned for racking up high scores.

Just stating the fact that there is a chink there that another can exploit.

It is true that Dublin have won 5 of their All Ireland’s by the bare minimum. It is also true that they have not won them by the margin of a Leinster final victory.

If, as you suggest, that is a chink, and I don’t agree that it is, then Tyrone didn’t exploit it last year in the semi final or on the other two meetings we have had with them this year. Also, no other team that Dublin have played in those final’s have managed to exploit it either.

FrancieBrady

Powerhouse wrote: »

Not sure Ulster is as banana-skin laden as you appear to think. Donegal have reached seven of the last eight Ulster finals.

And won 4 of them.
I don't think anyone would claim Donegal 'dominated' Ulster in those years in the way Dublin have continued to totally dominate a province with 3 more teams in it.

A more revealing stat would be the amount of times an Ulster champion loses in the first round of the next year's championship. Happens often.

Powerhouse

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gavin you would have to say, based on the stats and facts, has an issue with getting his teams to perform to their high scoring best in finals. Winning only one by more than a point. Harte has won his by 3 points or more with teams not renowned for racking up high scores.

Just stating the fact that there is a chink there that another can exploit.

Some context is necessary here. Dublin scored 17 points in last year's All-Ireland football final. This has been bettered just four times in the entire history of All-Ireland football finals and two of those were 80 minute games.

The previous year they scored 15 which while at first glance seems modest has been surpassed just nine times in the other 32 finals played during the 70 minute era. In other words 23 All-Ireland winners did not score more points in the final than Dublin in 2016.

Gavin - as you would expect when the bar is raised - might have an issue with getting Dublin, in an All-Ireland final, to equal the scores they put up against weak Leinster opposition. He is, however quite good at getting them to score more than the opposition in the All-Ireland final.

warsaw2018

dublin by 10

FrancieBrady

yobr wrote: »

It is true that Dublin have won 5 of their All Ireland’s by the bare minimum. It is also true that they have not won them by the margin of a Leinster final victory.

If, as you suggest, that is a chink, and I don’t agree that it is, then Tyrone didn’t exploit it last year in the semi final or on the other two meetings we have had with them this year. Also, no other team that Dublin have played in those final’s have managed to exploit it either.

If you can't handle the notion that this is a final and history doesn't matter in a final (as Gavin/Dublin themselves have clearly shown) then you seem to be saying that nobody need turn up to play Dublin?

That would be arrogance in extremis would it not?

Powerhouse

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A more revealing stat would be the amount of times an Ulster champion loses in the first round of the next year's championship. Happens often.

That's your imagination playing tricks with you. This hasn't happened since 2009.

FrancieBrady

Powerhouse wrote: »

That's your imagination playing tricks with you. This hasn't happened since 2009.

How quickly they forget. Monaghan knocked out the 2017 champions who are now in the All Ireland final having beaten Monaghan who were knocked out of the Ulster Championship by Fermanagh.

So out in defense of Dublin it is impossible even to get you guys and girls to accept that Ulster is a far and away more competitive province than Leinster.

Funny boys and girls.

yobr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you can't handle the notion that this is a final and history doesn't matter in a final (as Gavin/Dublin themselves have clearly shown) then you seem to be saying that nobody need turn up to play Dublin?

That would be arrogance in extremis would it not?

The fact that I have a different view to you which I have been able to support does not make my view arrogant.

Also, you have tied your argument up in knots. You have ignored the fact that your whole argument, that Dublin are in some way vulnerable as they have won the majority of their final matches by one point, is based on the HISTORY of Dublin’s performance in these matches. If, as you say, I think it is twice now, that history in finals is irrelevant, then your point about Dublin’s potential vulnerability has no basis.

Also, as you say that “history doesn’t matter in a final” then it also demolishes your other point about Mickey Harte’s great record in finals.

STB.

yobr wrote: »

Also, as you say that “history doesn’t matter in a final” then it also demolishes your other point about Mickey Harte’s great record in finals.

Constantly talking in riddles this chap. The mad thing is Tyrone have no recent form as they haven't made it to a all Ireland final in 10 years.

This chaps own county managed to fluff their lines twice last weekend and then he comes on pontificating about the dubs not doing enough in finals. Finals they've been winning all around them.

Gas.

FrancieBrady

yobr wrote: »

The fact that I have a different view to you which I have been able to support does not make my view arrogant.

Also, you have tied your argument up in knots. You have ignored the fact that your whole argument, that Dublin are in some way vulnerable as they have won the majority of their final matches by one point, is based on the HISTORY of Dublin’s performance in these matches. If, as you say, I think it is twice now, that history in finals is irrelevant, then your point about Dublin’s potential vulnerability has no basis.

Also, as you say that “history doesn’t matter in a final” then it also demolishes your other point about Mickey Harte’s great record in finals.

I only post Mickey's record because you guys conveniently ignore it. It's almost as impressive as Gavin's in finals.

There is a rather disparaging- anti the spirit of the game - term that has crept into Dublin fandom's vocabulary, the very arrogant taunt of 'bottlers' to describe Mayo's effort against them, that essentailly came down to a kick of the ball and luck.

You cannot apply that to Tyrone in finals.

Again, that makes it a fascinating duel for me. Two successful managers going head to head.

yobr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I only post Mickey's record because you guys conveniently ignore it. It's almost as impressive as Gavin's in finals.

There is a rather disparaging- anti the spirit of the game - term that has crept into Dublin fandom's vocabulary, the very arrogant taunt of 'bottlers' to describe Mayo's effort against them, that essentailly came down to a kick of the ball and luck.

You cannot apply that to Tyrone in finals.

Again, that makes it a fascinating duel for me. Two successful managers going head to head.

Grand so. You continue to advance an argument (anti-Dublin) based on history but dismiss any other argument (pro-Dublin) which is also based on history. Then you throw out some point which is completely irrelevant to what is under discussion. I think I know where you are coming from. Good night Francie.

doc_17

I’m looking forward to this game. Hopefully it’ll be close with a Dublin win. Paul Mannion is one of my favourite players. Reminds me a lot of Paul Flynn. Can score and is a brilliant, hardworking tackler and defender. Hope he gets Footballer of the Year.

FrancieBrady

yobr wrote: »

Grand so. You continue to advance an argument (anti-Dublin) based on history but dismiss any other argument (pro-Dublin) which is also based on history. Then you throw out some point which is completely irrelevant to what is under discussion. I think I know where you are coming from. Good night Francie.

Facts here yobr: 1. Gavin's teams have not won a final by more than two points, despite racking up high winning margins in all other parts of the championship.

Fact 2. Tyrone don't have a record under Harte of losing finals or 'bottling them' as they say.

Fact 3: There is something for a manger to work on there, and I hope he does because football needs it.

You guys seem to have a problem whenever somebody puts facts in front of you if they even suggest there is a chink in Dublin.
Invariably, those stating those facts are told to go to bed/have a nap or the poster themselves goes to bed in a tantrum, mild or otherwise. :D

Powerhouse

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How quickly they forget. Monaghan knocked out the 2017 champions who are now in the All Ireland final having beaten Monaghan who were knocked out of the Ulster Championship by Fermanagh.

So out in defense of Dublin it is impossible even to get you guys and girls to accept that Ulster is a far and away more competitive province than Leinster.

Funny boys and girls.

Sorry, you are right of course about Monaghan this year - I remember people commenting that it hadn't happened since 2009. The problem with your claim is that you said it "happens often" which it clearly doesn't.

The question of competitiveness or relative competitiveness of provinces is another matter. What are the terms of reference?

Dublin have dominated Leinster but since they have also dominated the All-Ireland championship itself this does not necessarily render Leinster relatively uncompetitive.

Six counties have played in Ulster finals this decade. Seven Leinster counties have done so. If you use that as a measure t suggests the depth of competition holds up fairly well in Leinster.

Granted the National League suggests Ulster is better but only marginally - Div 1 teams 2018 League: Leinster 2, Ulster 3; Division 2 teams: Leinster 2, Ulster 2; Division 3 teams: Leinster 4 Ulster 3. In other words eight of Ulsters' nine counties are spread reasonably evenly across the top three divisions of the League. Leinster can make the same claim with its top 8 counties.

You could consider an individual measure such as the performance of Kildare in 2018 - they lost to Carlow in Leinster but beat Derry and Fermanagh (Ulster finalists) in the qualifiers. Then look at Meath who were beaten by Longford (a Division 3 team) but gave Tyrone their fill of it in the qualifiers losing by just a point. I don't think anyone would claim that Leinster is a stronger province than Ulster but when you examine things more closely the gap is not really significant.

And it certainly does not provide such an advantage as to explain Dublin's national dominance, no more than suggesting Dublin would struggle in Connacht as it's more "competitive". The main reason for the veneer of "competitiveness" in Ulster is that there are a lot of middling enough teams not good enough consistently to rise above the rest though Donegal have made a fair stab at it in recent years. Incidentally their four games in this year's Ulster championship featured margins of 8, 6, 13 and 12 points. No obvious banana skins there.

Slattsy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Facts here yobr: 1. Gavin's teams have not won a final by more than two points, despite racking up high winning margins in all other parts of the championship.

Fact 2. Tyrone don't have a record under Harte of losing finals or 'bottling them' as they say.

Fact 3: There is something for a manger to work on there, and I hope he does because football needs it.

You guys seem to have a problem whenever somebody puts facts in front of you if they even suggest there is a chink in Dublin.
Invariably, those stating those facts are told to go to bed/have a nap or the poster themselves goes to bed in a tantrum, mild or otherwise. :D

Fact? 2015 says hi

Clueless.

Powerhouse

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Fact 2. Tyrone don't have a record under Harte of losing finals or 'bottling them' as they say.

In the last eight years Tyrone have played in just two Ulster Finals, one National League final and no All-Ireland final. There really is not enough statistical evidence in recent times to properly assess Tyrone's finals record under Harte.

FrancieBrady

Powerhouse wrote: »

Sorry, you are right of course about Monaghan this year - I remember people commenting that it hadn't happened since 2009. The problem with your claim is that you said it "happens often" which it clearly doesn't.

The question of competitiveness or relative competitiveness of provinces is another matter. What are the terms of reference?

Dublin have dominated Leinster but since they have also dominated the All-Ireland championship itself this does not necessarily render Leinster relatively uncompetitive.

Six counties have played in Ulster finals this decade. Seven Leinster counties have done so. If you use that as a measure t suggests the depth of competition holds up fairly well in Leinster.

Granted the National League suggests Ulster is better but only marginally - Div 1 teams 2018 League: Leinster 2, Ulster 3; Division 2 teams: Leinster 2, Ulster 2; Division 3 teams: Leinster 4 Ulster 3. In other words eight of Ulsters' nine counties are spread reasonably evenly across the top three divisions of the League. Leinster can make the same claim with its top 8 counties.

You could consider an individual measure such as the performance of Kildare in 2018 - they lost to Carlow in Leinster but beat Derry and Fermanagh (Ulster finalists) in the qualifiers. Then look at Meath who were beaten by Longford (a Division 3 team) but gave Tyrone their fill of it in the qualifiers losing by just a point. I don't think anyone would claim that Leinster is a stronger province than Ulster but when you examine things more closely the gap is not really significant.

And it certainly does not provide such an advantage as to explain Dublin's national dominance, no more than suggesting Dublin would struggle in Connacht as it's more "competitive". The main reason for the veneer of "competitiveness" in Ulster is that there are a lot of middling enough teams not good enough consistently to rise above the rest though Donegal have made a fair stab at it in recent years. Incidentally their four games in this year's Ulster championship featured margins of 8, 6, 13 and 12 points. No obvious banana skins there.

Dublin have won 13 of the last 16 Leinster championships (I think that is the figure??). Do we really have to say anymore about relative competitiveness? Yes a team like Meath or Kildare will occasionally raise their game, but it doesn't make the province 'competitive'.
Ulster is a nightmare to compete in in comparison and is renowned for being competitive.

Nobody is denying Dublin's dominance of the national scene.

FrancieBrady

Slattsy wrote: »

Fact? 2015 says hi

Clueless.

Apologies, that was meant to say 3 points.


A one point slip and I am 'clueless'.

You got me Slattsy, you got me good!! :D:D :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

Powerhouse wrote: »

In the last eight years Tyrone have played in just two Ulster Finals, one National League final and no All-Ireland final. There really is not enough statistical evidence in recent times to properly assess Tyrone's finals record under Harte.

Agreed, but it does make it fascinating for me.

And yes, I have a fetish for seeing arrogance and dominance hauled down to earth and it is overdue here and damaging football ultimately because of the elephants in the room surrounding the reasons for the dominace.

Nothing particularly anti Dublin in that, it just happens to be them in GAA football. Happens in other sports too.

Powerhouse

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Dublin have won 13 of the last 16 Leinster championships (I think that is the figure??). Do we really have to say anymore about relative competitiveness? Yes a team like Meath or Kildare will occasionally raise their game, but it doesn't make the province 'competitive'.
Ulster is a nightmare to compete in in comparison and is renowned for being competitive.

Nobody is denying Dublin's dominance of the national scene.

Well, yes we do. If we want to look at "relative" competitiveness we need to consider the two sides which we are considering in relation to each other i.e. Ulster and Leinster.

It is also important not to assume competitiveness is the same as high standards. Competitiveness can often be created by the lack of an outstanding team in a competition but in terms of standards can be illusory as the cross-comparison of Leinster and Ulster counties has shown.

STB.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

yobr wrote: »

Grand so. You continue to advance an argument (anti-Dublin) based on history but dismiss any other argument (pro-Dublin) which is also based on history. Then you throw out some point which is completely irrelevant to what is under discussion. I think I know where you are coming from. Good night Francie.

Facts here yobr: 1. Gavin's teams have not won a final by more than two points, despite racking up high winning margins in all other parts of the championship.

Fact 2. Tyrone don't have a record under Harte of losing finals or 'bottling them' as they say.

Fact 3: There is something for a manger to work on there, and I hope he does because football needs it.

You guys seem to have a problem whenever somebody puts facts in front of you if they even suggest there is a chink in Dublin.
Invariably, those stating those facts are told to go to bed/have a nap or the poster themselves goes to bed in a tantrum, mild or otherwise. :D

Francie. Your facts are not facts. They are the meanderings of a madman.

1. Gavin has won 4 out of 5 all Ireland's since he was appointed including the last 3 in a row. 5 National leagues and one O Byrne cup. The dubs went 36 games undefeated. He has beaten more records in 5 and half years than multiple managers have in a lifetime.

2. Harte hasn't even managed to get his team to a final in the last 10 years. That's why they have no record.

3. Is that even English. What are you trying to say.

Theres the facts. Nobody's having tantrums. Just clearing up your inaccuracies and misguided notions.

FrancieBrady

STB. wrote: »

Francie. Your facts are not facts. They are the meanderings of a madman.

1. Gavin has won 4 out of 5 all Ireland's since he was appointed including the last 3 in a row. 5 National leagues and one O Byrne cup. The dubs went 36 games undefeated. He has beaten more records in 5 and half years than multiple managers have in a lifetime.

The above was never denied.
So blinded are you when someone dares question that you cannot see that wasn't the point being made. I will state it again for the record:

1. Gavin's teams have not won a final by more than three points, despite racking up high winning margins in all other parts of the championship.

There is simply no denying the fact of that.

2. Harte hasn't even managed to get his team to a final in the last 10 years. That's why they have no record.

Again, why would you pretend I was saying something else? That is not the point I was making either. I was talking about his record in finals that he had made.

3. Is that even English. What are you trying to say.

Theres the facts. Nobody's having tantrums. Just clearing up your inaccuracies and misguided notions.

As you see - absolutely no inaccuracy in facts. If there are you will have to point them out. Start with Gavin's record in winning AI finals convincingly? Is there some alternative series of All Ireland's taking place where Dublin win them by 10 points?

STB.

There's nothing relevant in what you have said.

Harte hasn't achieved anything with this current tyrone panel. What is the significance of a team he had in the 2000s with the one he has now. They are not the same team whatsoever. So when you go grasping at straws about his unbeaten record in finals from 10 to 15 years ago you are talking out your backside.

The reason Harte hasn't even won anything in the last 10 years is because they are not the same team.

Gavin's team on the other hand are in the main the one and same team he has had since 2013.

The same team winning back to back all Ireland's and league titles etc.

Seriously it's not hard to understand. You were banging on about Omagh the last time as if it had any significance. It didn't.

The team that Mickey Harte has now are the same team that were beaten out the gate of croker in the semis last year by the dubs. They've probably weakened since Cavanagh retired.

BonnieSituation

Lads, give up now.

Good god this thread is gone to the dogs and it's only the Monday after the SFs.

FrancieBrady

STB. wrote: »

There's nothing relevant in what you have said.

If it isn't relevant to you then just trot on.
For me it sets up a fascinating battle of wits between two managers. A manger who hasn't convinced in finals as emphatically as he has convinced in other games (like it or not, that is his record) and another manager who has won all his finals and has a reputation of being tactically very astute.

I will resist to the death the seeming Dub fan desire to award Sam before the championship even starts!

ShamoBuc

This thread has gotten as boring as some of the football on show this year.

And that's a fact.

STB.

Cork will rise again shamobuc.

FACT.

FrancieBrady

ShamoBuc wrote: »

This thread has gotten as boring as some of the football on show this year.

And that's a fact.

It's gas to look at treads getting dragged into side bars when ever anyone says something that might imply a criticism of Dublin.

Same few posters every time too. The championship is decided before it begins. :rolleyes:

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's gas to look at treads getting dragged into side bars when ever anyone says something that might imply a criticism of Dublin.

Same few posters every time too. The championship is decided before it begins. :rolleyes:

Well we are now to blame for the poorly attended championship.

Just keeping you in the loop on our crimes and misdemeanors.

Ye are all getting as bad as Willie Frazer when he blames the Ra.

C__MC

The managers History and past events will count for nothing when the ball is thrown in. A final is a final- it’s all points to a Dublin win but anything can happen.
BTW both are great great managers and whoever wins will be deserving champions

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Well we are now to blame for the poorly attended championship.
.

Exaggerating what is being said in this or other threads does not make you a victim Bonnie. However much you want to play the part.

Stoner

You're holding your own Francie, fair play to you!

Stoner

C__MC wrote:

The managers History and past events will count for nothing when the ball is thrown in. A final is a final- it’s all points to a Dublin win but anything can happen. BTW both are great great managers and whoever wins will be deserving champions

I don't fully agree as there is some history here, but largly speaking it was Pat Gilroy's team that turned the table wrt Dublin vs Tyrone.

The two guys have not met much so it is fresh enough apart from the game last year. The gap was not as significant as it looked last year, everything went right for Dublin and wrong for Tyrone.

This could easily have all the intensity of an Ulster Championship match, or the 2011 or 2014 Donegal Dublin matches.

I'm looking forward to some decent analysis on this, will Tyrone expose a potential lack of zip in the Dublin back line.

What will Matty Donnelly's job be.
C Cavanagh was good last year and flying this year too, the space behind the corner backs that was there on Saturday will not be there vs Tyrone.

I think we'll have lads being targeted for sending off.

I think it's possible that Matty and Colum will be part of some sort of twin sweeper arrangement.

Would O'Gara help smash that, Star didn't two years ago.

Personally in think Dublin will need cool heads and speed in the half back line.

So McCarthy back to 6 and MDMA to start.

I'd see Tyrone trying to expose Cian O'Sullivan and getting something out of it.

Not sure if Murchan will pick up Sludden again but this game will suit him I think

I can see both sides being very reluctant to give up frees within the scoring zone. So long range kickers will be important.


Lastly I think both keepers will be under periods of extreme pressure. It will be interesting to see how they both handle it.

SecretsOfEarth

Tyrone, to have any hope, need to cut out some of the desperately sloppy and stupid mistakes. In the space of about 2 minutes against Monaghan, they gave away 2 soft points.

First, Morgan takes the kick-out incorrectly and forces a throw ball which leads to a Monaghan score (eventually!).

Straight after, a short hand-pass is misjudged completely and Monaghan knock it over the bar after a simple interception.

If they repeat mistakes of that calibre against Dublin, they can forget about it. Obviously, I'm not suggesting a perfect, flaw-free performance with zero errors but the minimum is to get the absolute basics right. Kick-outs are so integral to the game, every team should know exactly how to take them and not try to take it quickly at the expense of following the rules.

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Exaggerating what is being said in this or other threads does not make you a victim Bonnie. However much you want to play the part.

How could I be a victim?

It's just observations on how we're to blame for yet another thing that's killing the gaa.

And this week it's the crappy crowd we brought to CP.

Anyway, I'm sure we'll manage come September 2nd.

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

How could I be a victim?

It's just observations on how we're to blame for yet another thing that's killing the gaa.

And this week it's the crappy crowd we brought to CP.

Anyway, I'm sure we'll manage come September 2nd.

...which is part of the problem with the GAA.

'Part of' the problem Bonnie...'part' off.

Typical of you, if it isn't playing the 'victim' card it is playing the 'we are bored with that topic' card.

BonnieSituation

The sheer lack of activity on the thread shows that many are bored with it. Time to move on tbf.

castletownman

Just on Tyrone's stupid mistakes vs. Monaghan. It wasn't like Dublin were infallible against Galway themselves. Conceding a sloppy goal under the high ball, and then giving away the penalty not long after. Cluxton has occasionally followed up a sloppy score with a kick-out straight over the sideline too.

Every game is defined by fine margins. These will be magnified ten-fold on September 2nd.

mfceiling

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A manger who hasn't convinced in finals as emphatically as he has convinced in other games (like it or not, that is his record)

To be fair francie the proof is the name on the cup and right now that is Dublin and has been for the last 3 years.
As a tyrone man I'd love to see us break that run. I know you think that Harte has been more astute in the finals but again we beat Armagh by 1 point, 3 points in kerry in 2005 and 4 points in kerry in 2008...hardly hammering our rivals!!
Plus we had the likes of Canavan, Cavanagh, Dooher, McGuigan, Jordan, McMenanamin, Stephen O'Neill and Mulligan back then. I'm not being down beat but I don't think too many lads from today's side would make the starting 15 of those days!!

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The sheer lack of activity on the thread shows that many are bored with it. Time to move on tbf.

There are only two teams left and the final is nearly 3 weeks away. :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

mfceiling wrote: »

To be fair francie the proof is the name on the cup and right now that is Dublin and has been for the last 3 years.
As a tyrone man I'd love to see us break that run. I know you think that Harte has been more astute in the finals but again we beat Armagh by 1 point, 3 points in kerry in 2005 and 4 points in kerry in 2008...hardly hammering our rivals!!
Plus we had the likes of Canavan, Cavanagh, Dooher, McGuigan, Jordan, McMenanamin, Stephen O'Neill and Mulligan back then. I'm not being down beat but I don't think too many ads from today's side would make the starting 15 of those days!!

Everything I say is predicated on what 'might happen'.

I think in a one game 'winner takes all' situation that anything can and frequently has happened.

Mickey is the same manager who managed all those people above. I will be astounded if he cannot come up with a strategy that unsettles Dublin, he has briefly shown that he has already this year. With players going 'all in' in a final can he sustain it?
Has Gavin the nous to win if he does come up with something and gets ahead.

Thankfully the final has those questions to answer and isn't a dead rubber as the Dub fans love to hear you say here (in fact that seems to be all they want to hear )

C__MC

Mickey Harte record v Jim Gavin

Championship: 2 defeats
League: 4 defeats - 1 win - 1 draw

LoughNeagh2017

My neighbour has his Tyrone flag out in co.Derry, he raised his children as Tyrone fans even though they play for a Derry club. It is ironic waving his "Ui Neill county" flag here given the road is full of Derry O'Neills, they are just the same as Meath with their inflated egos thinking they are High kings running around a football field.

dobman88

Was there not a special thread created for the likes of FrancieBrady and DONTMATTER to post their inane ramblings?

I'm a Kerry man and all the Dublin bashing has become tiresome even for me. Christ, defending the dubs, I'm off for a shower and a lie down

kilns

Its times like this in the run up to final that you miss some of those crazy Mayo fans like Mayoaremagic, I wonder where he is these days....

FrancieBrady

dobman88 wrote: »

Was there not a special thread created for the likes of FrancieBrady and DONTMATTER to post their inane ramblings?

I'm a Kerry man and all the Dublin bashing has become tiresome even for me. Christ, defending the dubs, I'm off for a shower and a lie down

The easiest thing to do is to create a 'love in' thread for county supporters who will broach no doubting of their team and manager?

The only reason I have posted so much is because of the derision heaped on a bit of speculation.

kilns

One of the posters is actually right in one way, in nearly all of the All Ireland finals Dublin have won recently they have not performed to their maximum but on another note they didnt have to.
To be fair Mayo, did seem to have something over Dublin which kept them with them despite Dublin being a much superior team and then there was that All Ireland in the rain too
But Dublin even at 70% against Tyrone should win quite easily, Tyrone just dont have enough firepower to hurt Dublin, but Harte will have them ready for it and he will have them employing as much dark arts as they can.  Watch out for  McCaffrey being taken out off the ball on numerous occasions etc etc 
Dublin at 70% win by 5, Dublin at 100% win by 10+

FrancieBrady

kilns wrote: »

One of the posters is actually right in one way, in nearly all of the All Ireland finals Dublin have won recently they have not performed to their maximum but on another note they didnt have to.
To be fair Mayo, did seem to have something over Dublin which kept them with them despite Dublin being a much superior team and then there was that All Ireland in the rain too
But Dublin even at 70% against Tyrone should win quite easily, Tyrone just dont have enough firepower to hurt Dublin, but Harte will have them ready for it and he will have them employing as much dark arts as they can.  Watch out for  McCaffrey being taken out off the ball on numerous occasions etc etc 
Dublin at 70% win by 5, Dublin at 100% win by 10+

It might not be much of a question but it is a question all the same.

Do Dublin/Gavin have issues with finals?
If Harte gets within a point or two in the home straight will he have the nous to go on and win it?

Looking at how Cluxton went to pieces and the team reacted when put under pressure on their last encounter...who knows. For the game's sake I hope it does come to that 'question'. And let the better team/man win it.