Back to Education Allowance, refused. 22 days off requirement

irelandhouse

anyone have any experience of the Back to Education allowance or advice on the below. Whom perhaps has appealed a back to education officer decision?

Wife lost her job (not redundancy) and began to look for a job and claimed Jobseeker benefit. at the same time she looked to see if further education in her field was an option and was accepted as a mature student to an IT.

When she went to speak with the intero office, the officer reviewed her option and told her that she would be unable to get the Back to Education Allowance, as she was 22 days off the 234 days off requirement to be eligible.

So now,
If she wishes to go with the college route she will receive no benefits from the state to assist

Or

if she stays with Jobseekers benefit this will run out and then she will be assessed for Jobseekers allowance, which we may or may not get as its means tested and from the website we may be JUST over.
but she can reapply for the Back to education next year and will receive it from what she was told by the case officer.
and while on JB she will be seeking a job which if she gets, this will disqualify her from the back to education allowance....As the college course will be more beneficial hence why she would like to seek to gain the back to education allowance now

the course would be of significant benefit to her career.

Turnipman

First, you've confused JA and JB. JB isn't means tested, JA is.

Next, you say that she was "let go" from her job. Was she made redundant?

If so then the Citizens Information website states:

"If you have been awarded statutory redundancy and are entitled to a qualifying social welfare payment immediately before you start the course, you can get immediate access to BTEA without any waiting period. You must take part in the BTEA scheme within one year of getting statutory redundancy and satisfy all the other conditions." Does she meet those criteria? If so, then she should apply for BTEA immediately.

The rest of your post merely outlines the alternatives that are open to her, so there's not much that I can add, other than to say that if she gets a job in the meantime then I doubt that she can just walk away from it in 12 months time and get the BTEA! But maybe I've misunderstood what you wrote.

5tuck

This has happened to me as well this year op, its about 8k less a year than I thought I was entitled to for the next two years and 7 after that, pretty hard to take.
If she goes on JA and is called up by An Turas Nua she will also be ineligible for BTEA.

irelandhouse

Turnipman wrote: »

First, you've confused JA and JB. JB isn't means tested, JA is.

Next, you say that she was "let go" from her job. Was she made redundant?

If so then the Citizens Information website states:

"If you have been awarded statutory redundancy and are entitled to a qualifying social welfare payment immediately before you start the course, you can get immediate access to BTEA without any waiting period. You must take part in the BTEA scheme within one year of getting statutory redundancy and satisfy all the other conditions." Does she meet those criteria? If so, then she should apply for BTEA immediately.

The rest of your post merely outlines the alternatives that are open to her, so there's not much that I can add, other than to say that if she gets a job in the meantime then I doubt that she can just walk away from it in 12 months time and get the BTEA! But maybe I've misunderstood what you wrote.

Thank you for your reply. I have updated the original message to correct the noted points. Thank you

irelandhouse

5tuck wrote: »

This has happened to me as well this year op, its about 8k less a year than I thought I was entitled to for the next two years and 7 after that, pretty hard to take.
If she goes on JA and is called up by An Turas Nua she will also be ineligible for BTEA.

Thanks for your reply. Just to ask...
So u went back to education without assistance?
An turas nua? What is this ? And can I ask if she claimed JA and was seeking employment but did not get any can she not apply for btea for the following year ?

Wanderer78

irelandhouse wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. Just to ask...
So u went back to education without assistance?
An turas nua? What is this ? And can I ask if she claimed JA and was seeking employment but did not get any can she not apply for btea for the following year ?

if she can, and you can afford it, sit on the dole for a while until the option of returning to education becomes an option. turas nua, plenty of threads on boards explaining this calamity, if this occurs, she made need the assistance on her gp to move on from this one.

5tuck

irelandhouse wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. Just to ask...
So u went back to education without assistance?
An turas nua? What is this ? And can I ask if she claimed JA and was seeking employment but did not get any can she not apply for btea for the following year ?

I had several conversations with the person in charge of my situation and I'm still not exactly sure how I didn't qualify, but I think it's similar to yourself. I don't think I'm going back this year now, because the grant is only 20 euro a week at best.

An Turas Nua is a recruitment agency which, if she is contacted by, she will lose any future right to an entitlement such as BTEA. I could be wrong here, but I think it's possible that your payment of JA changes to "unemployment assistance" when they contact you, and they most likely will contact her. From what I gather, as soon as you sign with An Turas Nua, you sign all your rights away. I'll gladly take correction here, that's just my perception of how my circumstances seem to have developed over the past fortnight or so.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

if she can, and you can afford it, sit on the dole for a while until the option of returning to education becomes an option. turas nua, plenty of threads on boards explaining this calamity, if this occurs, she made need the assistance on her gp to move on from this one.

This is pretty much where I am now, it's a horrible state of affairs. I'd love to go back to college this year, do a bit of work and sort out my illness. This has been a sledgehammer for me, from what I gather a couple of years of doctors meetings and enduring further depression is the way out. I can't believe the situation has brought me to some of the thoughts I've been having lately.

5tuck

Is it worthwhile contacting TD's about? I'm at my wits end with it.

splinter65

5tuck wrote: »

Is it worthwhile contacting TD's about? I'm at my wits end with it.

Can you just tell us if your wife got a statutory redundancy in the last 12 months?

5tuck

splinter65 wrote: »

Can you just tell us if your wife got a statutory redundancy in the last 12 months?

I'm not the op

splinter65

5tuck wrote: »

I'm not the op

Ok sorry about that.

Wanderer78

5tuck wrote:

This is pretty much where I am now, it's a horrible state of affairs. I'd love to go back to college this year, do a bit of work and sort out my illness. This has been a sledgehammer for me, from what I gather a couple of years of doctors meetings and enduring further depression is the way out. I can't believe the situation has brought me to some of the thoughts I've been having lately.

Sit back for a while and just process things, do not rush back to education, I've done this in the past, it's a bad idea. Lean of your medical team, they're there to help. Best of luck

5tuck

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Sit back for a while and just process things, do not rush back to education, I've done this in the past, it's a bad idea. Lean of your medical team, they're there to help. Best of luck

My doctor told me he wasn't prepared to keep me on certs last week, before I had a bit of an emotional outburst. Now I'm doing exactly what you described is a bad idea, rushing into things. I don't feel like I have a medical team or much if any support.

Wanderer78

5tuck wrote: »

My doctor told me he wasn't prepared to keep me on certs last week, before I had a bit of an emotional outburst. Now I'm doing exactly what you described is a bad idea, rushing into things. I don't feel like I have a medical team or much if any support.

would going to another doctor be an option?

5tuck

Wanderer78 wrote: »

would going to another doctor be an option?

I don't know.

5tuck

Wanderer78 wrote: »

would going to another doctor be an option?

Is it a big job changing over to another doctor?

I think all I can do right now is apply for disability, go on supplementary, change to jobseekers allowance if i get accepted into a course and then immediately go onto back to education. But I'm not even sure if that's possible. I'm sure there's someway they would reject me similar to this year.

I contacted my TD's to try and help me with this, and one of them came back with news that my illness benefit had been cancelled. First I'd heard of it. And now the person who I was in contact with over my illness benefit appears to have deleted her email address.

fergus1001

fight this tooth and nail, I was in a similar situation 6 years ago I battled through got my local TD to ask parlimentry questions I put in appeals and put such pressure on them that they caved and gave it to me. do not back down

irelandhouse

splinter65 wrote: »

Can you just tell us if your wife got a statutory redundancy in the last 12 months?

no she did not.

5tuck

fergus1001 wrote: »

fight this tooth and nail, I was in a similar situation 6 years ago I battled through got my local TD to ask parlimentry questions I put in appeals and put such pressure on them that they caved and gave it to me. do not back down

It's easier said than done, I'm pretty dejected and demoralised. I haven't even put a formal claim in, I was just immediately shut down by the officer in charge of my payment. I don't think I could start college and wait for appeal after appeal, wouldn't do my studies any good, which is pretty much the same issue I have now in terms of trying to pay rent and fees etc. What I'm studying is enough of a challenge as is, there's no way I'll survive the competition when its not my priority for the duration of my degree.

5tuck

Apologies to op for hijacking the thread BTW, seems we're in a similar enough position though.

fergus1001

5tuck wrote: »

It's easier said than done, I'm pretty dejected and demoralised. I haven't even put a formal claim in, I was just immediately shut down by the officer in charge of my payment. I don't think I could start college and wait for appeal after appeal, wouldn't do my studies any good, which is pretty much the same issue I have now in terms of trying to pay rent and fees etc. What I'm studying is enough of a challenge as is, there's no way I'll survive the competition when its not my priority for the duration of my degree.

its not easy but it has been done by me, i am now a qualified Forester and working as a regional manager because i fought back

Turnipman

fergus1001 wrote: »

its not easy but it has been done by me, i am now a qualified Forester and working as a regional manager because i fought back

How can he or she start fighting when, by their own admission they haven't even put a claim in?

Bit hard to start fighting when you haven't even thrown your hat into the ring.

fergus1001

Turnipman wrote: »

How can he or she start fighting when, by their own admission they haven't even put a claim in?

Bit hard to start fighting when you haven't even thrown your hat into the ring.

put the application in and then fight it, seriously i was in the EXACT SAME position i was 22 days short fought them on it and won

5tuck

Turnipman wrote: »

How can he or she start fighting when, by their own admission they haven't even put a claim in?

Bit hard to start fighting when you haven't even thrown your hat into the ring.

When I called my DSP about changing they diverted me to illness, I didnt realise that filling out the form would matter seeing as they wouldnt even give me one if I went in and asked, but I'll print one out later and try.

Fergus, how did you deal with the stress whilst studying and how long did it take?

From my conversation with my TD, I was told I was not on illness anymore, that's how I found out. I'm now on supplementary which isn't a payment allowable to move over from. Can't get in contact with illness benefit person because the email doesn't exist anymore. Doesn't matter anyway, they've told me the same thing from the start, which I still don't fully understand.

fergus1001

5tuck wrote: »

When I called my DSP about changing they diverted me to illness, I didnt realise that filling out the form would matter seeing as they wouldnt even give me one if I went in and asked, but I'll print one out later and try.

Fergus, how did you deal with the stress whilst studying and how long did it take?

From my conversation with my TD, I was told I was not on illness anymore, that's how I found out. I'm now on supplementary which isn't a payment allowable to move over from. Can't get in contact with illness benefit person because the email doesn't exist anymore. Doesn't matter anyway, they've told me the same thing from the start, which I still don't fully understand.

it was the middle of November before i got it sorted, i was literally 1 week away from having to give up my coarse, i used to come home and go to bed straight away and go asleep you cant stress if your asleep, to this day i have never been under as much pressure as i was then but when i look back at it if i didnt fight it i would be unemployed or in a dead end job somewhere and that thought is what kept me motivated

chin up and keep going

Turnipman

fergus1001 wrote: »

put the application in and then fight it, seriously i was in the EXACT SAME position i was 22 days short fought them on it and won

Or maybe,

first put the application in,

then await the decision,

then, if the application is turned down,

consider appealing it - if one believes that one has sufficient grounds

and then, if the appeal is turned down,

"fight it"?

Because if one involves a TD at an earlier stage, the TD is likely to be fobbed off with a reply along the grounds that the application/appeal is still under consideration.

Turnipman

5tuck wrote: »

From my conversation with my TD, I was told I was not on illness anymore, that's how I found out.

If true, that appears to have been a breach of the Data Protection Act and should be followed up on. No DSP employee should have told your TD anything about you unless they could produce a signed authorisation from you authorising them to act on your behalf. Did your TD have such an authorisation?

fergus1001

Turnipman wrote: »

Or maybe,

first put the application in,

then await the decision,

then, if the application is turned down,

consider appealing it - if one believes that one has sufficient grounds

and then, if the appeal is turned down,

"fight it"?

Because if one involves a TD at an earlier stage, the TD is likely to be fobbed off with a reply along the grounds that the application/appeal is still under consideration.

well yeah do it that way of coarse but as they say if your not in you cant win

5tuck

Turnipman wrote: »

If true, that appears to have been a breach of the Data Protection Act and should be followed up on. No DSP employee should have told your TD anything about you unless they could produce a signed authorisation from you authorising them to act on your behalf. Did your TD have such an authorisation?

It was the office of the TD, not the TD themselves, sorry for the mix up. They didnt have that kind of authorisation but I did te

5tuck

It was the office of the TD, not the TD themselves, sorry for the mix up. They didnt have that kind of authorisation but I did tell them about my situation.

Spook_ie

5tuck wrote: »

I had several conversations with the person in charge of my situation and I'm still not exactly sure how I didn't qualify, but I think it's similar to yourself. I don't think I'm going back this year now, because the grant is only 20 euro a week at best.

An Turas Nua is a recruitment agency which, if she is contacted by, she will lose any future right to an entitlement such as BTEA. I could be wrong here, but I think it's possible that your payment of JA changes to "unemployment assistance" when they contact you, and they most likely will contact her. From what I gather, as soon as you sign with An Turas Nua, you sign all your rights away. I'll gladly take correction here, that's just my perception of how my circumstances seem to have developed over the past fortnight or so.



This is pretty much where I am now, it's a horrible state of affairs. I'd love to go back to college this year, do a bit of work and sort out my illness. This has been a sledgehammer for me, from what I gather a couple of years of doctors meetings and enduring further depression is the way out. I can't believe the situation has brought me to some of the thoughts I've been having lately.

According to http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/back_to_education/back_to_education_allowance.html the fact of being with Turas Nua is not necessarily a bar to BTEA. As they are part of the jobpath scheme

Time spent on the Back to Education Allowance (BTEA), Vocational Training Opportunities Scheme (VTOS), full-time FET (formerly FÁS) training courses, Community Employment schemes, Part-time Job Incentive scheme, Gateway, Community Services Programme, Rural Social Scheme, TÚS, Workplace Placement Scheme (WPP), Back to Work Enterprise Allowance, Short Term Enterprise Allowance, Job Initiative, Job Assist, JobBridge and JobPath may count towards the qualifying period for BTEA purposes. This provision only applies where you have established an entitlement to a qualifying social welfare payment immediately before you start your course of study.

My emphasis on Jobpath

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/employment_supports.html

JobPath
JobPath is an employment activation programme that is intended to help jobseekers find and retain full-time employment. The DEASP selects clients for JobPath on a random basis. You cannot apply to go on JobPath. Supports from JobPath are aimed at people who are long-term unemployed and people who are newly unemployed but who may need intensive support to find work.

If you are selected for JobPath you will be referred to a JobPath company. There are two companies - Seetec and Turas Nua. You will be assigned to a personal adviser who will assess your skills, work experience and work goals. The adviser will draw up a Personal Progression Plan with you which will include a series of activities and actions designed to help you get a job. These might include work experience, training and other relevant supports. You will be given career advice and helped with CV and interview preparation. You can also get support and advice about starting your own business.

You keep your jobseeker's payment while on JobPath. Generally the programme lasts for a year (52 weeks). If you find a job, the Jobpath company will continue to work with you while you are in employment for up to a year. It will give particular support during the first few weeks of employment.

From 1 June 2018, if you are registered with Jobpath, you can apply for DEASP employment support schemes such as Tús or Community Employment.

Depending on local arrangements, while you are on JobPath you may sign on for your jobseeker's payment less often than at present or, in some situations, you may not have to sign on at all.

Maybe you've already been through the hoops but it never hurts to re read the options and if necessary lay them out to the person presiding over your case or indeed their immediate supervisor