can the postal system survive

Mike Hoch

I saw an ad today for TV Licence inspectors offering something like 445 per week (presumably before tax). Plus allowances, whatever that is (a free licence?)

A few weeks ago I saw an ad for temporary post sorters and postmen, with a possibility of permanent IIRC, for something poxy like 480 per week (again, before tax).

Reason I ask, I always thought post men were on a great old rate even when starting. And licence inspectors would be on great money- who the hell wants to go door knocking in Jobstown and into halting sites threatening court appearances and fines, all for teenagers wages?!?

Most state employees of the likes of the buses, post office, etc etc were, to my knowledge, pushing upwards of 40K if they had a decade or two service under their belt. What's with these poxy race to the bottom temp contracts and awful money? Is this really going to be the standard?

Far as I know the buses still start on quite good money, 29K or thereabouts, probably plenty of opportunity for overtime and probably bonuses for weekend and late evening work. That's to start with, your average driver with 10 plus years service is probably raking it in.

And as for Irish Rail drivers! And Luas!

kneemos

Mike Hoch wrote: »

I saw an ad today for TV Licence inspectors offering something like 445 per week (presumably before tax). Plus allowances, whatever that is (a free licence?)

A few weeks ago I saw an ad for temporary post sorters and postmen, with a possibility of permanent IIRC, for something poxy like 480 per week (again, before tax).

Reason I ask, I always thought post men were on a great old rate even when starting. And licence inspectors would be on great money- who the hell wants to go door knocking in Jobstown and into halting sites threatening court appearances and fines, all for teenagers wages?!?

Most state employees of the likes of the buses, post office, etc etc were, to my knowledge, pushing upwards of 40K if they had a decade or two service under their belt. What's with these poxy race to the bottom temp contracts and awful money? Is this really going to be the standard?

Far as I know the buses still start on quite good money, 29K or thereabouts, probably plenty of opportunity for overtime and probably bonuses for weekend and late evening work. That's to start with, your average driver with 10 plus years service is probably raking it in.

And as for Irish Rail drivers! And Luas!

A grand a week at least for this kinda crap.

https://youtu.be/bsTsppyP4KI

Riddle101

I still believe Post Office's play an important role in communities. Plus i'd imagine a lot people will be put out of work because of this. Don't like the idea of people losing their jobs.

Mike Hoch

kneemos wrote: »

A grand a week at least for this kinda crap.

https://youtu.be/bsTsppyP4KI

These freemen on the land types are fecking hilarious, each and every one adamant he and his mates have discovered legal loopholes in the likes of contract law, property rights and motoring laws that no qualified brief has ever noticed before. I might go for the licence job after all, if only for the banter off them.

Uriel.

kneemos wrote: »

A grand a week at least for this kinda crap.

https://youtu.be/bsTsppyP4KI

I hate ar$eholes like that.
Scrounging scum

RobbieMD

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

You could . . . . .
or again heres a thought - don't allow them to sign on in the vicinity of children.

With an attitude like that your obviously a senior civill servant :rolleyes:
Tiny minute possible problems often have tiny minute solutions.

No I'm not a senior civil servant. I'm a parent though, and I wouldn't want a school grounds being used/shared as a Garda type facility.

I agree that services should be located in a central hub type thing, motor tax/ revenue and the other services. Just I don't think the Garda part is necessary.

Capt'n Midnight

GarIT wrote: »

Cash is expensive to maintian, there should be a 1% tax on all cash transactions to fund the creating and maintaining of cash.

Let's leave that one until they put a transaction tax on electronic trades of shares and derivatives churned over in less than a month. :mad:

Capt'n Midnight

Cabaal wrote: »

if banks cared about customer's they'd be open later and at weekends with staff for the last few decades.

Rather then provide services for people that need them via post Offices the solution is to stop offering these services...that doesn't seem smart,

Banks have three types of customer
Plumbs, the ones they make money on , if you aren't an employee you can easily get to a bank during working hours.
Apples and Oranges, normal customers , not very profitable, but there's lots of them.
Lemons, poor customers , banks don't want these and will close branches if that's the only type of customer in the area.

Most Post Office customers would be lemons. Small transactions. So they need new business. Irks me that stuff from China has much cheaper postage. Maybe we could introduce a Slow Post for parcels at a cheaper rate ?

An Post still has a very large network so it must be useful for something.

Uriel. wrote: »

Of course post offices will survive, even when they really shouldn't
Politicians will continue to invent ways of wasting money and throwing it at An Post.

Don't get me started on how much An Post get for NOT collecting the TV license.

Discodog

fattymuatty wrote: »

I post about 15-20 packages every week, an post provide a good price for international postage and it is pretty fast too. If our local post office closed it would be a major pain for me. It's always pretty busy when I go in.

Really? I think the international rates are expensive. So much so that I wonder how anyone could sell overseas.

2kg to Finland is €22 if its a packet but €54 for a parcel.

Mrs OBumble

Cabaal wrote: »

Post Offices are very important social hubs and important for news and keeping an eye on people. if for example Mary collects her pension every week and the suddenly doesn't show up the people in the local post office are likely to notice this and may follow up with somebody to see if they've seen Mary and is she ok.

if Mary gets her pension paid into a bank account and doesn't use it...nobody will notice.

If ypur community is so pathetic that going to the post office to collect the pension is the only social outlet for older people, then the whole area needs to take a good hard look at itself and start organising some actual social activites.

warsaw2018

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If ypur community is so pathetic that going to the post office to collect the pension is the only social outlet for older people, then the whole area needs to take a good hard look at itself and start organising some actual social activites.

(you)

GarIT

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If ypur community is so pathetic that going to the post office to collect the pension is the only social outlet for older people, then the whole area needs to take a good hard look at itself and start organising some actual social activites.

I had to have a go at someone for this a few months ago. I was in a rush and there was only me and an old woman and one member of staff in the post office. They spent 5 minutes talking and igonring me after she was finished her transaction and then accused me of being rude when I politely asked her to move along.

"I'm just telling her about my grandson going to work in America", I ****ing know I've had to listen to how Donny's son Cormac has a girlfriend who's brother works in America and you arranged for them to "hook up" so he could teach him how to live in America even though one guy is living in Cali and your son's going to Boston which is a bit away but he can get the train. But apparently I'm incredibly rude for not wanting to wait and listen to how Mary Ellen from the shops is pregnant with her second baby and this aul wan thinks it's Rory's from the pub.

All I said was "Sorry I'm in a hurry do you mind if I just make a quick transaction" implying I'm going to be quick and you can keep talking in 60 seconds but apparently I'm incredibly rude for expecting a business to provide the service it claims to.

It's just literal insanity, make your transaction and move the **** on, in my opinion is rude to talk to someone in a shop or post office about anything other than the transaction you are making, if you care so much about gossip get a ****ing Facebook account and **** off.

whisky_galore

Mike Hoch wrote: »

I saw an ad today for TV Licence inspectors offering something like 445 per week (presumably before tax). Plus allowances, whatever that is (a free licence?)

A few weeks ago I saw an ad for temporary post sorters and postmen, with a possibility of permanent IIRC, for something poxy like 480 per week (again, before tax).

Reason I ask, I always thought post men were on a great old rate even when starting. And licence inspectors would be on great money- who the hell wants to go door knocking in Jobstown and into halting sites threatening court appearances and fines, all for teenagers wages?!?

Most state employees of the likes of the buses, post office, etc etc were, to my knowledge, pushing upwards of 40K if they had a decade or two service under their belt. What's with these poxy race to the bottom temp contracts and awful money? Is this really going to be the standard?

Far as I know the buses still start on quite good money, 29K or thereabouts, probably plenty of opportunity for overtime and probably bonuses for weekend and late evening work. That's to start with, your average driver with 10 plus years service is probably raking it in.

And as for Irish Rail drivers! And Luas!

There must be some amount of sh1t, threats of violence etc that the likes of tv inspectors and bus and Luas drivers have to put up with from the great unwashed.

PlaneSpeeking

whisky_galore wrote: »

There must be some amount of sh1t, threats of violence etc that the likes of tv inspectors and bus and Luas drivers have to put up with from the great unwashed.

Ticket checker just last night (and on the Green Line - man has that gone downhill!) - usual unwashed knacker with no ticket giving a serious amount of grief.

Ended with him on the pavement threating to sue the ticket checker and saying "I know people".

I've worked facing the public in the social security when young an naive - there is not enough money in Dennis O'Brien's arse pocket for me to do it again heading for 50.

jjbrien

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Banks have three types of customer
Plumbs, the ones they make money on , if you aren't an employee you can easily get to a bank during working hours.
Apples and Oranges, normal customers , not very profitable, but there's lots of them.
Lemons, poor customers , banks don't want these and will close branches if that's the only type of customer in the area.

Most Post Office customers would be lemons. Small transactions. So they need new business. Irks me that stuff from China has much cheaper postage. Maybe we could introduce a Slow Post for parcels at a cheaper rate ?

An Post still has a very large network so it must be useful for something.



Don't get me started on how much An Post get for NOT collecting the TV license.

Where did you get this wisdom from? From someone who worked at a bank when I was in college I can tell you banks actually perfer people who are poorer and those who can only make minimum payments on credit cards loans etc. They can charge them a higher rate of interest and get a bigger return. Banks really dont like people who pay their cards loans off fast as there is little return on those.

I seen a good case for a post office where the local supervalu opened a post office in it. It was good business for them as people collected their welfare there and then did their shopping. Maybe privatising more post office branches is the answer. Royal Mail in the UK went fully private and it seems to be surviving fine.

Graces7

Mohammed Attractive Serpent wrote: »

Just make sure to put your Eircode in your address. It has improved rural deliveries tremendously. Even a courier with no knowledge of your area can find their way straight to your door.



A stamp now costs €1.

Well, I live on a tiny island with a very few houses and three deliveries a week... The postman is my neighbour.. I cannot find an eircode either and couriers do not come out... We need to keep An Post alive for remote areas. Only eircode listed here is for the Church just down the lane..

Graces7

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If ypur community is so pathetic that going to the post office to collect the pension is the only social outlet for older people, then the whole area needs to take a good hard look at itself and start organising some actual social activites.

:eek:

Given that many rural villages have a small and mainly elderly population? Life lives in daily casual encounters, not in organised tea parties.

I remember I think it was Ballyduff in Kerry, the postmistress served tea ...

Staff at eg Dunne's can get very chatty with customers they know too, of all ages. Been guilty of it myself but only if there was no one waiting behind me..;)

Graces7

jjbrien wrote: »

Where did you get this wisdom from? From someone who worked at a bank when I was in college I can tell you banks actually perfer people who are poorer and those who can only make minimum payments on credit cards loans etc. They can charge them a higher rate of interest and get a bigger return. Banks really dont like people who pay their cards loans off fast as there is little return on those.

I seen a good case for a post office where the local supervalu opened a post office in it. It was good business for them as people collected their welfare there and then did their shopping. Maybe privatising more post office branches is the answer. Royal Mail in the UK went fully private and it seems to be surviving fine.

This happens a lot in rural small towns and works very well .

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Graces7 wrote: »

Well, I live on a tiny island with a very few houses and three deliveries a week... The postman is my neighbour.. I cannot find an eircode either and couriers do not come out... We need to keep An Post alive for remote areas. Only eircode listed here is for the Church just down the lane..

You live on a tiny, barely inhabited island, and you think that An Post must be kept going to serve such areas?

Never understand why driving licenses can't be got in the post office like you can do in the UK. But it being Ireland we had to create a whole new level of bureaucracy with these NDLR test centres. Would have been some handy business for the post offices instead.

badtoro

PO's will go the way of the dinosaur, it'll just take a lot longer than people think. I can't think of any service they provide currently that can not be done by other services (email, courier, etc).

Some things keeping them going is the % of people not technologically minded/able and some archaic public/private services requiring certain specified proofs of postage.

I don't believe them to be the social centres people make them out to be, at least I have not seen such in this small rural area.

TheBoyConor

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

No it won't.

If there was any foresight or ambition in the civil service/ government there would remain a single public services office preferably attached / co located with the local school. There you could have postal service / garda desk / doctors surgery and possibly even a local shop which would (1) satisfy one of the reasons for closure (wasted resources) and (2) have a social hub in villages and towns with footfall on a daily basis and (3) have garda presence in the location at least some hours daily even if its just a 30 minute window five days a week for example.

I think that's called a town.

whisky_galore

badtoro wrote: »

I don't believe them to be the social centres people make them out to be, at least I have not seen such in this small rural area.

People meet more after Mass, in pubs and cafes than hanging around the PO. I think they'd ask you to finish up and move on out of the way in my local one.

Graces7

badtoro wrote: »

PO's will go the way of the dinosaur, it'll just take a lot longer than people think. I can't think of any service they provide currently that can not be done by other services (email, courier, etc).

Some things keeping them going is the % of people not technologically minded/able and some archaic public/private services requiring certain specified proofs of postage.

I don't believe them to be the social centres people make them out to be, at least I have not seen such in this small rural area.

Nor do I and I have lived deep rural decades. Obviously in a small town or village staff will know customers and may chat.. but have you ever been in a busy PO on Friday/pension day? Far too busy to chat.

I do do disagree that we do not need Post Offices though. Many do not use email or couriers.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

whisky_galore wrote: »

People meet more after Mass, in pubs and cafes than hanging around the PO. I think they'd ask you to finish up and move on out of the way in my local one.

The Post Office being an important social setting is the greatest myth going. I live rurally and the Post Office is now gone. Nobody misses it. It wasn't being used. The people who go on about many people having no other means of social interaction, or no other means of communication are usually the same people who don't actually use the Post Offices themselves. And it not 'many' people, it's a very few people - hence the demise of the post offices.
The postal service will survive but not the plethora of small post offices.

badtoro

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

Nor do I and I have lived deep rural decades. Obviously in a small town or village staff will know customers and may chat.. but have you ever been in a busy PO on Friday/pension day? Far too busy to chat.

I do do disagree that we do not need Post Offices though. Many do not use email or couriers.

My thinking outpaces my typing thankfully. I hinted at the cause of their ultimate demise but omitted directly saying that it is technological progression in the population that'll do them in. When people my age are pensioners PO's are done for. I'd much prefer to email documents and forms, 90%+ parcels that arrive to me are by courier with the exception of books - even now I am flirting with the notion of ebooks. There is little credible reason to have PO's handle the services they do.

For example my next forced PO visit will be to pay for firearms licences, that can be done online if the service was available. Yet I am posted out a semi populated form which I must complete and bring to a garda station to a garda who doesnt know me from Adam. ALL of that could be done online, every single piece of it. It all will be eventually.

GarIT

Graces7 wrote: »

I do do disagree that we do not need Post Offices though. Many do not use email or couriers.

That will change soon. Things like getting a job, booking a holiday or receiving communications from a child's school require an email address now within a generation or two everyone will have one. What you're saying is similar to saying "I disagree that we don't need a household radio. Many do not use television". You're right at the moment but it won't last long.

There will still be uses for the postal service but the sending letters and physical locations will be seriously reduced. There is talk of cutting the post down to one day a week like the bins.

fattymuatty

Discodog wrote: »

Really? I think the international rates are expensive. So much so that I wonder how anyone could sell overseas.

2kg to Finland is €22 if its a packet but €54 for a parcel.

I post packet sizes and what I sell is quite light. I sent a box to Singapore today for 6e which I think is fantastic to be honest.

Graces7

Turnipman wrote: »

And, while we're discussing Jim "Dumbo" Daly TD, permit me to remind readers that he's using his Ministerial superman outfit to try to save Ballineen post office from closure, although there's another PO located less than a mile away in Enniskeane!

http://www.redfm.ie/news/cork/minister-intervenes-to-save-a-west-cork-post-office-on-the-brink-of-closure/

Having lived in that twin town situation!

Graces7

Mohammed Attractive Serpent wrote: »

You live on a tiny, barely inhabited island, and you think that An Post must be kept going to serve such areas?

Absolutely so. A lifeline service.

Graces7

GarIT wrote: »

That will change soon. Things like getting a job, booking a holiday or receiving communications from a child's school require an email address now within a generation or two everyone will have one. What you're saying is similar to saying "I disagree that we don't need a household radio. Many do not use television". You're right at the moment but it won't last long.

There will still be uses for the postal service but the sending letters and physical locations will be seriously reduced. There is talk of cutting the post down to one day a week like the bins.

disagree; fine is towns and cities but out in rural areas?...

Time will indeed tell and only time...

Graces7

badtoro wrote: »

My thinking outpaces my typing thankfully. I hinted at the cause of their ultimate demise but omitted directly saying that it is technological progression in the population that'll do them in. When people my age are pensioners PO's are done for. I'd much prefer to email documents and forms, 90%+ parcels that arrive to me are by courier with the exception of books - even now I am flirting with the notion of ebooks. There is little credible reason to have PO's handle the services they do.

For example my next forced PO visit will be to pay for firearms licences, that can be done online if the service was available. Yet I am posted out a semi populated form which I must complete and bring to a garda station to a garda who doesnt know me from Adam. ALL of that could be done online, every single piece of it. It all will be eventually.

Glad you are happy with how YOU do things; being now all but house/bed bound I use email BUT always use An Post for letters and parcels and rely on them for deliveries.

We need the diversity . And we need the social dimension .

Interesting expressions "done for"!

GarIT

Graces7 wrote: »

Glad you are happy with how YOU do things; being now all but house/bed bound I use email BUT always use An Post for letters and parcels and rely on them for deliveries.

Just on that point you can still have a local post box that will probably collected from once a week and a postman delivering to you once a week. There's no need for someone standing behind a counter 40 hours a week doing what a metal box can do for free. Every other post office service will become digital only eventually.

sbsquarepants

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Cash will never be gone!

Was actually listening to a guy from fexco on the radio this morning, he says the amount of cold hard cash in use worldwide increases 5% year on year and has done for decades.

That been said I use a lot less of it than I used to (mainly because I have a lot less of it to use:mad:)

GarIT

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Cash will never be gone!

There are laws being considered within the EU that would make it a criminal offence to pay an employee, contractor or tradesperson in cash. To prevent fraud of course, this would have a big impact on cash usage.

eleventy6

fattymuatty wrote: »

I post packet sizes and what I sell is quite light. I sent a box to Singapore today for 6e which I think is fantastic to be honest.

Yeah, small packets are fine with An Post, but if you go up to a parcel it becomes very expensive.



A 5kg parcel registered to the UK costs €59!!!:eek:. Where as I can send the same parcel with parceldirect.ie for €15.50.



That's some difference, and it will be collected for free or I can drop it off at a local shop to be collected by the courier.


An Post only seem interested in big business now.

eleventy6

GarIT wrote: »

Just on that point you can still have a local post box that will probably collected from once a week and a postman delivering to you once a week. There's no need for someone standing behind a counter 40 hours a week doing what a metal box can do for free. Every other post office service will become digital only eventually.

Agree with that, just saying there An Post only seem interested in competing with the other courier companies in delivering high volumes for massive companies. The see no value in the normal everyday customer, hence the €1 for a stamp.

CeilingFly

Mohammed Attractive Serpent wrote: »

I can't remember the last time I needed to use a post office.

With communications and services increasingly delivered online, and packages delivered by private couriers, why do we need a state-funded postal service? Why are closures of these unnecessary offices always described as a "great loss to the community"?

State funded?

Since when?

Its a profitable semi state company that has been changing and growing with the new digital age.

Yes, some post offices will close, but letter delivery and counter services is now a small part of the overall business.

Parcel delivery and marketing services including licencing its unique marketing software to many postal services around the world is their main business these days

badtoro

Graces7 wrote: »

Glad you are happy with how YOU do things; being now all but house/bed bound I use email BUT always use An Post for letters and parcels and rely on them for deliveries.

We need the diversity . And we need the social dimension .

Interesting expressions "done for"!

You really like to cherry pick.

death1234567

GarIT wrote: »

There are laws being considered within the EU that would make it a criminal offence to pay an employee, contractor or tradesperson in cash. To prevent fraud of course, this would have a big impact on cash usage.

A good idea by the EU, colour me shocked.

GarIT

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/an-post-says-30m-government-loan-will-not-save-post-office-closures-1.3300204

Interesting article there.

An Post got a €30m loan from the state to fund the continuation of a 5 day postal service. That would imply the 5 day postal service is at risk and will go as some point in the future. It will also be used to expand the parcel service and expand

Up to 360 of 1125 post offices will close within 4 years.

An An Post spokeswoman said in an official statement said that An Post would primarily be a parcel business in the future.


It's nothing different from what we were saying but interesting to hear it from themselves.

ohnonotgmail

GarIT wrote: »

There are laws being considered within the EU that would make it a criminal offence to pay an employee, contractor or tradesperson in cash. To prevent fraud of course, this would have a big impact on cash usage.

To pay them in cash at all or make cash the only method of payment?

GarIT

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

To pay them in cash at all or make cash the only method of payment?

To pay them in cash at all. It was something along the lines of you have to use electronic payments through a regulated financial institution to pay anyone who self reports their income, would hit taxi drivers too.

Harry Palmr

Surely that would just create a new level of the unofficial economy.

Anyway the closures have started, 160 or so.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0828/988102-post-offices/

The Rape of Lucretia

Cabaal wrote: »

Post Offices are very important social hubs and important for news and keeping an eye on people.

Why are people in favour of people who want to post letters or parcels being forced to subsidise a social service ?

Agent Coulson

Just ask Kevin Costner how important a Postman is.

Irish Kings

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

More fool you if you think doing away with a cash option is good for the general public.

Same goes for anyone who thinks running down and closing up as many services as possible outside certain areas in certain cities is good for Ireland and the general public.

It's backward long term self destruction, and doesn't do the cities any good either.

Good job I don't give a toss any more what they do with the country, but if I did I would be angry.

Even the Brits, who hated us, the ordinary Irish public, even more than the current Irish golden circle do, didn't run down the areas and services outside the select areas of certain cities.

Graces7

GarIT wrote: »

Just on that point you can still have a local post box that will probably collected from once a week and a postman delivering to you once a week. There's no need for someone standing behind a counter 40 hours a week doing what a metal box can do for free. Every other post office service will become digital only eventually.

we barely have that even now. No outgoing post box here and maybe 2 deliveries a week. Away with your gloomy predictions we are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of you.

HappyAsLarE

Graces7 wrote: »

we barely have that even now. No outgoing post box here and maybe 2 deliveries a week. Away with your gloomy predictions we are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of you.

Whew is here?

I thought An Post were obligated to deliver to every address every weekday? Maybe you just don’t have anything for you on the days they don’t come??

Graces7

eleventy6 wrote: »

Yeah, small packets are fine with An Post, but if you go up to a parcel it becomes very expensive.


A 5kg parcel registered to the UK costs €59!!!:eek:. Where as I can send the same parcel with parceldirect.ie for €15.50.


An Post only seem interested in big business now.

If you keep the weight and size to under 2 kg it goes as a packet. I send to Canada frequently and 2 kg goes for E20. Over 2 kg and it is a different story.