Dairy Chitchat 3

straight

There was a new product there that I thought was exciting. A kind of dried cheese snack food. Like meanies crisps. Flying in the states she said, coming here shortly.

Buford T. Justice XIX

straight wrote: »

I was sold on the dribble bar until I saw it. No difference.

There were two different timed applications, the earlier was very noticibly further ahead in cover while the later was more or less equal. The weather conditions could have made a big difference, that was the reasoning by our guide anyway.

straight wrote: »

And by all accounts spending less time per LU did not affect performance. So just sit back lads and relax.

After milking and feeding the calves and spreading a bag or two of fertiliser, that's my plan for the next few weeks:pac:

straight

And they had grass fed butter displayed beside tmr fed butter and they were two completely different products. You could taste and see the difference. We are selling serious quality milk for feck all.

straight

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

There were two different timed applications, the earlier was very noticibly further ahead in cover while the later was more or less equal. The weather conditions could have made a big difference, that was the reasoning by our guide anyway.

After milking and feeding the calves and spreading a bag or two of fertiliser, that's my plan for the next few weeks:pac:

Good luck with that.

Buford T. Justice XIX

straight wrote: »

Good luck with that.

I can dream....:p

Probably go laying a bit of concrete next week in case i seize up.

straight

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I can dream....:p

Probably go laying a bit of concrete next week in case i seize up.

Ya, the farmer guilt will get you.

whelan2

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You need to be harder on them. I dont deal.with the bench manager, he has no say with regards to interest on the account.
Any where we deal with doesn't charge interest if paid within 90 days

Does the interest charged and removed appear on your statement?

straight

I think they said 4 cows per hectare on the milking platform was optimum. High cost system if u ask me

Mooooo

straight wrote: »

I think they said 4 cows per hectare on the milking platform was optimum. High cost system if u ask me

Wasn't at it but thought I saw aboard that said 2.8 of a sr? 4 would only be for the late spring and summer months really

straight

Mooooo wrote: »

Wasn't at it but thought I saw aboard that said 2.8 of a sr? 4 would only be for the late spring and summer months really

Maybe so. I rushed through it there was so much. 2.8 sounds sensible. More like an overall stocking rate.

Buford T. Justice XIX

straight wrote: »

Maybe so. I rushed through it there was so much. 2.8 sounds sensible. More like an overall stocking rate.

Yeah, 2.8 or thereabouts across the whole farm. The key is matching stocking rate to grass grown. Grow more grass, grow more replacements to eat it as cows seemed to be the message.

The Ballyhaise results of increasing stocking rates was interesting. Two separate stocking rates 3.1 and 4.5 iirc, and the result was unprofitable at under 30c/l at the higher rate. There were eyewatering amounts of feed being brought in to the high stocking rate farm, admittedly mostly from outfarms, along with ration being fed across the whole year despite the models saying that they should be able to drop meal for a few months most years. And Ballyhaise was growing c.14t/ha/year iirc?

visatorro

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Yeah, 2.8 or thereabouts across the whole farm. The key is matching stocking rate to grass grown. Grow more grass, grow more replacements to eat it as cows seemed to be the message.

The Ballyhaise results of increasing stocking rates was interesting. Two separate stocking rates 3.1 and 4.5 iirc, and the result was unprofitable at under 30c/l at the higher rate. There were eyewatering amounts of feed being brought in to the high stocking rate farm, admittedly mostly from outfarms, along with ration being fed across the whole year despite the models saying that they should be able to drop meal for a few months most years. And Ballyhaise was growing c.14t/ha/year iirc?

That's why I'm not making money. Stocked at 5.75 atm. That milking platform, no ground taking out for reseeding, no ground closed for silage. Its a tight feckin ship, I could have told them that!!

GrasstoMilk

whelan2 wrote: »

Does the interest charged and removed appear on your statement?

Yeah it would do. So would discounts. I get the business manager to go through the account and bring back the prices to what they should be

cjpm

JeffKenna wrote: »

Anyone go to Moorepark today? What did you make of it?

Anyone see the fliers left on cars from the disgruntled customer of Stradbally Farm Services??


Not a happy camper!!!

visatorro

cjpm wrote: »

Anyone see the fliers left on cars from the disgruntled customer of Stradbally Farm Services??


Not a happy camper!!!

What was the story?

Say my name

visatorro wrote: »

What was the story?

They never heard tell of the internet.

cjpm

visatorro wrote: »

What was the story?

bought a new milking machine, loads of problems, no come back, scc through the roof, over 40 cows had to be culled, says he's down €120k as a result of it.







Revenge is a dish best served cold they say :pac:

whelan2

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Yeah it would do. So would discounts. I get the business manager to go through the account and bring back the prices to what they should be

None of that on any of my statements. Seems very strange .

Mortelaro

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Yeah it would do. So would discounts. I get the business manager to go through the account and bring back the prices to what they should be

Yes the business manager is the one to do deals with but have you totted up yourself what interest is charged?
On a bill of 20 k for example you will have 2 months interest if you're paying off at 3 months,so that's going to be €766 alone

For a lad paying at SFP time which is quite common it could be up to €4k
That's not counting any product discount
You could argue product discount isn't deserved or at least some interest should be paid for that length

However 23% is usury with a capital capita capital U U U
Glanbia probably fund at 0.5%

I'll let you use the calculator to work out how many orders of several 100% their margin is on that and they ARE collecting it

Gawddawggonnit

mahoney_j wrote: »

Just home great day but Yeadh still pushing expansion and more milk but ......: I asked Lawrence shalooo a question and was most dossapounted with the response it read something along have we a market for all this extra milk that will be produced ,secondly he said our green image grass fed milk is commanding a premium and thirdly why on the continent are they been paid a premium way above our coop prices for there milk despite been in a shed and fed tmr
The conversation was moved on with no answer and I was asked to side where I still got no answer .some here may say I was negative but I don’t think I was .the reality is likes of tegasc etc are talking great stuff but clear answers are hard come by .great day but this response dissapointed me

It’s a question that needs to be answered. No point in expanding to infinity without the payback. I’ve cows inside on tmr and I’m getting 6+cpl over what you’re getting...where exactly is the supposed premium going? I’ve a sneaky suspicion that there’s NO grass fed premium for the commodity products being exported by Irish processors.

Any mention of clover and reduced Nitrogen?
It’s coming up to nearly 20yrs into the 21st century...

mahoney_j

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

It’s a question that needs to be answered. No point in expanding to infinity without the payback. I’ve cows inside on tmr and I’m getting 6+cpl over what you’re getting...where exactly is the supposed premium going? I’ve a sneaky suspicion that there’s NO grass fed premium for the commodity products being exported by Irish processors.

Any mention of clover and reduced Nitrogen?
It’s coming up to nearly 20yrs into the 21st century...

‘Twas embarrassing actually another group comming we have to move on was the answer I was asked to side but still no clear answer and got a speil about not wanting to go the route of the Dutch with there cop in low mid 30s I then asked what’s our cop pm shows low 20s on most efficient farms I pipered up aghh Yeadh that’s with no capital repayements or wage and if we include them it would be low 30s !!!!!absoutely no chance that would of been said this was in first stand and set tone for day for me there was lots of good things on show good stands trial plots etc but all the talk still of more more more but no answer as to where this product will go
On the clover and reduced n there was stands and trial plots of splash plate v t shoe v dribble bar imo clover has a place here but limited due to our climate

kevthegaff

Are lads spreading fertilliser or is it too dry

visatorro

kevthegaff wrote: »

Are lads spreading fertilliser or is it too dry

I did yesterday morning and hopefully tomorrow as well. 18-6-12

Gawddawggonnit

mahoney_j wrote: »

‘Twas embarrassing actually another group comming we have to move on was the answer I was asked to side but still no clear answer and got a speil about not wanting to go the route of the Dutch with there cop in low mid 30s I then asked what’s our cop pm shows low 20s on most efficient farms I pipered up aghh Yeadh that’s with no capital repayements or wage and if we include them it would be low 30s !!!!!absoutely no chance that would of been said this was in first stand and set tone for day for me there was lots of good things on show good stands trial plots etc but all the talk still of more more more but no answer as to where this product will go
On the clover and reduced n there was stands and trial plots of splash plate v t shoe v dribble bar imo clover has a place here but limited due to our climate

If grass fed is the premium produce, where’s the money? Premium produce = premium €€€.

If it’s NOT the premium product that the Coops/Teagasc/Bord Bia/Ornua etc claim it is, why the propaganda/lies?

My own Coop are paying 36cpl + vat next month for a supposedly shyte/unsustainable/inefficient product...wtf??

Methinks the old mushroom method is at play.

straight

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

If grass fed is the premium produce, where’s the money? Premium produce = premium €€€.

If it’s NOT the premium product that the Coops/Teagasc/Bord Bia/Ornua etc claim it is, why the propaganda/lies?

My own Coop are paying 36cpl + vat next month for a supposedly shyte/unsustainable/inefficient product...wtf??

Methinks the old mushroom method is at play.

Yep - keep them in the dark and feed them plenty sh1t. Sure there will always be plenty fellas happy to keep pumping It out at 30c.

Gawddawggonnit

straight wrote: »

Yep - keep them in the dark and feed them plenty sh1t. Sure there will always be plenty fellas happy to keep pumping It out at 30c.

Must be.
It’ll be interesting what the Coops pay for July milk...I’m getting 39.4cpl + vat and the last Irish prices (June?) were around 28.5 to 30cpl + vat?
Ffs.
From those prices anyone that’s not a dairy farmer would surmise that you’re getting *penalised* for producing premium grass fed milk...

mahoney_j

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Must be.
It’ll be interesting what the Coops pay for July milk...I’m getting 39.4cpl + vat and the last Irish prices (June?) were around 28.5 to 30cpl + vat?
Ffs.
From those prices anyone that’s not a dairy farmer would surmise that you’re getting *penalised* for producing premium grass fed milk...

July milk ffs we still don’t know what we will be paid for June milk

Gawddawggonnit

mahoney_j wrote: »

July milk ffs we still don’t know what we will be paid for June milk

Apologies.
I thought the prices in the Milk Price Thread were for June.

Ah sure there’s plenty time for them to rise the price by 5-10cpl.

Castlekeeper

Mortelaro wrote: »

Yes the business manager is the one to do deals with but have you totted up yourself what interest is charged?
On a bill of 20 k for example you will have 2 months interest if you're paying off at 3 months,so that's going to be €766 alone

For a lad paying at SFP time which is quite common it could be up to €4k
That's not counting any product discount
You could argue product discount isn't deserved or at least some interest should be paid for that length

However 23% is usury with a capital capita capital U U U
Glanbia probably fund at 0.5%

I'll let you use the calculator to work out how many orders of several 100% their margin is on that and they ARE collecting it

Never paid a euro interest in my life, now I very ran up any serious bills either but my answer was then and would be now, it is illegal for them to charge interest without a banking licence, afaik.

kevthegaff

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Must be.
It’ll be interesting what the Coops pay for July milk...I’m getting 39.4cpl + vat and the last Irish prices (June?) were around 28.5 to 30cpl + vat?
Ffs.
From those prices anyone that’s not a dairy farmer would surmise that you’re getting *penalised* for producing premium grass fed milk...

Dawg its more important our "cooperatives" pay premium wages

alps

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Never paid a euro interest in my life, now I very ran up any serious bills either but my answer was then and would be now, it is illegal for them to charge interest without a banking licence, afaik.

I'm pretty sure that retailers and service providers are allowed to add interest to overdue bills. It is part of the T&C's on the coop dockets

Water John

It really becomes a problem when they will deduct it for some customers only.

Gman1987

kevthegaff wrote: »

Dawg its more important our "cooperatives" pay premium wages

You could be right there, everyone getting a pay rise apart from the farmer. Another one I would point out is the fact that they are often competing against one another for the same business so who is the looser there only the farmer!! I wounder how it would go down with Coop bosses if it was proposed by ICMSA, IFA etc. to consolidate the sales of dairy export products therefore reducing costs within coops while also increasing farmers returns, Unfortunately they all have their own egos to fill...

alps

Ger1987 wrote: »

I wounder how it would go down with Coop bosses if it was proposed by ICMSA, IFA etc. to consolidate the sales of dairy export products therefore reducing costs within coops while also increasing farmers returns.

We have exactly that in Ornua...

straight

Graise consultancy's latest... How to be HIGHLY profitable.


When is 22 more than 27? Matching your system to milk payment

Maximising profit is driven by doing the basics right. There are some very basic principles in farming and when I analyse financials in groups and individually there is a very common theme among the highest profitability operators.

They maximise pasture grown and utilise it very well by managing the grazing well throughout the year, understanding the main principles of spring rotation planner, pre-grazing and residual targets through the main season and what they set out to achieve in autumn and especially in the last rotation to set up for spring but also with some flexibility because no two seasons are ever the same.

They don’t bother with fattening culls or any other practices that may take their focus away from the main enterprise and they are highly conscious about having the right cow for their system and have a focussed breeding program to maximise genetic gain and run the ideal age profile in the herd for maximum profitability, breeding replacements from the best 50% of cows in the herd using the right sires with minimal risk to achieve around 20% replacement rate and around 5 lactation average in the herd.

The right cow is a different animal for different systems, for an autumn calving herd in the UK being paid mainly on a per litre basis with little bonus for extra fat and protein it is very different from the ideal cow in an Irish spring calving herd being paid on an A + B – C system.
Do you even know how you are being paid for your output and the break-down of price for fat, protein and the processing cost per litre? Do you understand the impact it has on your decisions?

Every week I come across what I would class as very good farmers who have convinced themselves that feeding higher rates of concentrate at a time when they have a surplus of grass is profitable and focussed on maximising the litre ouput/cow. It is really hard to get your head around the fact that someone producing 5 litres/cow/day less may be more profitable but this is very often the case.

When I run regular groups in Ireland I gather information before group day for the hand-out on the day. This usually includes production and feed rates to which I apply the milk pricing from the milk buyer most common to the group. See the example from a recent group using the local milk price of €6.1767/Kg protein, €3.0488/Kg fat and a deduction of €0.0335/litre for the A + B – C calculation; I have isolated 2 of the group’s production figures to show the difference, one farmer doing 22 litres with xbred cows, good fat and protein %s and feeding no concentrate vs another farmer doing 27 litres/cow with lower fat and protein %s (still very good, I see much lower!) feeding 4Kg/cow concentrate.

The blue cell is the calculation of the protein X protein payment + fat X fat payment minus litres X volume charge and then minus the cost of the concentrate @ €280/T.

In this case the income/cow net of concentrate cost is near 50c/cow/day higher for the farmer producing 5 litres/cow less!! This is one of the most difficult things for Irish farmers to get their head around as there are so many signals on a pre/litre basis, even the way the milk price is expressed by the various companies and until recently whilst quotas were in place it was a litre based industry.

This does not even take into account that the higher volume cow is more likely to be a higher live-weight cow which again has an impact on the feed conversion efficiency, it takes around 340KgDM extra/year to maintain a 600KgLW cow than a 500KgLW cow so at a stocking rate of 2.5 cows/hectare this means you need another 850KgDM/hectare just to maintain the extra live-weight.

When you plan your breeding program it is critical that you understand the above as it should govern your breeding decisions and that you understand the impact of concentrate feeding when you have a pasture surplus.

One of the greatest costs of concentrate feeding at this time, not included in the above figures, is the impact of feeding rates on pasture residuals. There is no doubt that a cow being fed no concentrate will graze down to 4cm residual more willingly than a cow being fed 4Kg of cake ( I like the term cake as it feels like the same as feeding kids a lot of cake and then trying to get them to eat their vegetables after).

If a good pasture residual is not achieved then the pasture quality will be lower in the following rotation through a combination of lower digestibility and lower energy/KgDM which means you then have to feed the higher rate of cake to make up for the reduced pasture quality or use a mower to get residuals right, reducing pasture utilisation and adding cost of diesel, labour, depreciation.

John Roche, Down to Earth Advice and George Ramsbottom, Teagasc, did some research to suggest that concentrate feeding is actually costing around 1.5 X the cost of the concentrate when all parameters are taken into account and I would very much agree with that figure and even suggest that it is often much higher than that. If that calculation is used then the figures in the above example become even more skewed in the lower output cow’s favour.

You really need to understand that no matter what scale your business is at, the principles are the same, feeding higher levels of concentrate results in marginal milk (I.E. extra output that generates no higher profit) as the extra feeding results in extra work, stocking rate which means extra milking time, housing, slurry storage and so on, this is where the 1.5 X the cost of feed figure is generated.

I’m braced for the response from those that are feeding high rates of concentrate targeting high litre/cow output trying to convince themselves why they are profitable doing what they do and why their situation is different. It really doesn’t make any difference to me what system you are running, I have clients ranging from feeding no concentrate all year up to 2.5T/cow+/year, clients producing <5,000 litres to over 10,000 litres/cow and my aim is to make any one of them more profitable doing what they do.

The main thing is that you understand the above depending on your own milk pricing structure and how you can manipulate your system to ensure you optimise profitability and enjoy what you do. I see too many farmers complicating their system, working long hours for very little returns and it is usually through not understanding the above.

Milk a cow and have a system that optimises profitability and that you enjoy, you might find that it becomes very easy to love a system and cow that is highly profitable and easy to manage.

Be profitable, sustainable and enjoy farming; € + &#55357;&#56835;

Buford T. Justice XIX

SHOTS FIRED, I REPEAT, SHOTS FIRED!

Say my name

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

SHOTS FIRED, I REPEAT, SHOTS FIRED!

He must be feeding the cows with a wheelbarrow?
I just press a button myself.

Had two cull cows off to the factory a few days ago. Culled for cell count. One month dried off. Grass only. €1050 and €980.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.:rolleyes:

jaymla627

Say my name wrote: »

He must be feeding the cows with a wheelbarrow?
I just press a button myself.

Had two cull cows off to the factory a few days ago. Culled for cell count. One month dried off. Grass only. €1050 and €980.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.:rolleyes:

Veganesque levels of self belief in his above post, the ability of large tracts of the dairy community to whitewash from memory the sh**tshow that was last year is gas, if it wasn’t for the still nearly maxed out overdrafts and the overdue letters from suppliers in the post it’s almost like it never happened....
Zero issue with him pushing his system and beliefs but he’s just about stopping short of calling anyone that has high yielding cows and feeding meal year round as basically retarded and in need of intervention by himself for a hefty consultant fee our your local Teagasc advisor if needs be due to be not financially able to afford himself

kevthegaff

Good article tho whatever side of the fence you are at

Say my name

kevthegaff wrote: »

Good article tho whatever side of the fence you are at

He's just trying to be controversial to get noticed.
It'll work too.

mahoney_j

Say my name wrote: »

He's just trying to be controversial to get noticed.
It'll work too.

The only thing of his I agree with is his take on autumn grass and building of covers

Say my name

mahoney_j wrote: »

The only thing of his I agree with is his take on autumn grass and building of covers

You can tell he likes the publicity. As the comment about expecting the backlash.

His comment about being flexible on grazing. It's a fairly broad statement that we all know already or else we wouldn't have made it this far in farming. It's common sense about building covers. That was taught in ag college here moons ago.

He's promoting the grass only diet, small cow kiwi cross in Ireland and his homeland is going down the indoor wintering, larger cow, higher producer.
Some here are trying to copy them and they're trying to copy us. :cool:

Whatever floats your boat I suppose.

(Hopefully he can see benefits in mixed species grazing being trialled out in this part of the world. So he's not exactly completely closeted in his views).

alps

And can any of the above geniuses pick holes in the above piece?

Say my name

alps wrote: »

And can any of the above geniuses pick holes in the above piece?

No genius here.

But he's advocating that the highest profitable farmers don't fatten cull cows as it takes focus away from the main enterprise.
I had two cull cows this last month out and fattened on grass only in a paddock.
If I had of sent straight from parlour the way they were I'd be looking at €500 for one and €700 for another. There was no focus lost.
There's one anyway.

yosemitesam1

alps wrote: »

And can any of the above geniuses pick holes in the above piece?

Comparing what cows are doing/profit on any given day isn't right. If the yields drop back slower in the cows getting meal there's still the potential for it to be more profitable than not feeding.

mahoney_j

Say my name wrote: »

No genius here.

But he's advocating that the highest profitable farmers don't fatten cull cows as it takes focus away from the main enterprise.
I had two cull cows this last month out and fattened on grass only in a paddock.
If I had of sent straight from parlour the way they were I'd be looking at €500 for one and €700 for another. There was no focus lost.
There's one anyway.

Agree in reality he is a one trick pony with his own agenda at foot dosnt understand how most Irish family farms operate or how smaller fragmented farms operate fixated with his home country and it’s methods and thinks what works there can and will be replicated here without botherb

alps

Say my name wrote: »

No genius here.

But he's advocating that the highest profitable farmers don't fatten cull cows as it takes focus away from the main enterprise.
I had two cull cows this last month out and fattened on grass only in a paddock.
If I had of sent straight from parlour the way they were I'd be looking at €500 for one and €700 for another. There was no focus lost.
There's one anyway.

You got 2030 for the 2 cows....in June 2019..

The 2 farms he referred to would have jettisoned the 2 cows last August at the immediate point that it was determined they would not fully form part of the production team for 2019, for about 1100. Early Autumn, always a good price point for culls, before the glut arrives out from October onwards.

The sum is simple. From mid August onwards, the farm will be no longer capable of growing demand, so any passenger cow from that stage onwards will consume either food that could be consumed by cows with a future, or bought in at what was 300/tonne last year..

20 cows would cost 24k to carry from mid August to mid April...no amount of milk or weight that they would put on in the meantime will pay for this...

The key is, drop the demand in the autumn, and replace it with fully productive cows in the Spring...

While you think those 2 cows earned you money, I'd suggest that in effect they stopped you earning more...

Say my name

mahoney_j wrote: »

Agree in reality he is a one trick pony with his own agenda at foot dosnt understand how most Irish family farms operate or how smaller fragmented farms operate fixated with his home country and it’s methods and thinks what works there can and will be replicated here without botherb

The frightening thing though is the authoritarian way he wrote out that piece on profit and loss like it was black and white. When there's a multitude of factors at play. Even the piece about extra labour with meal feeding to prove a point when most people here just press a button.
I mean there's cows that do and don't respond to meal feeding just like there's cows that pay to fatten and others not.
If he wasn't looking into mixed species swards I'd say he was completely blinkered.

Say my name

alps wrote: »

You got 2030 for the 2 cows....in June 2019..

The 2 farms he referred to would have jettisoned the 2 cows last August at the immediate point that it was determined they would not fully form part of the production team for 2019, for about 1100. Early Autumn, always a good price point for culls, before the glut arrives out from October onwards.

The sum is simple. From mid August onwards, the farm will be no longer capable of growing demand, so any passenger cow from that stage onwards will consume either food that could be consumed by cows with a future, or bought in at what was 300/tonne last year..

20 cows would cost 24k to carry from mid August to mid April...no amount of milk or weight that they would put on in the meantime will pay for this...

The key is, drop the demand in the autumn, and replace it with fully productive cows in the Spring...

While you think those 2 cows earned you money, I'd suggest that in effect they stopped you earning more...

They calved down this spring but went too high in cell count in May and dried off end of May and put out onto a paddock for the month of June till the dry cow tubes restriction was up.

If I had of let them go straight from parlour I posted before roughly how much I think they would have made. But they turned inside out dry on the paddock.
I'd also have a factory agent making excuses not to pick them up if gone a month earlier and be slow about picking any more up off me.

whelan2

I don't fatten culls here. Out the gate from the parlour to factory or to dealer