Dairy Chitchat 3

Timmaay

jaymla627 wrote: »

Mini-drought just about to start here, gr on higher drier block back to low 30’s likewise with anything grazed the past 5 days, higher covers on wetter ground still motoring but once eaten will crash gr wise unless a good dumping of rain occurs

Welcome to the average summer here in Wicklow.

GrasstoMilk

whelan2 wrote: »

Will there be many autumn calving cows for sale this year? With lads getting out would they have served them anyway?

No cows but I have 2 high ebi fr heifers that were born in October. Will sell them in the back end

kevthegaff

boggerman1 wrote: »

Update on the blood test for Tb after 2 more going down a couple of weeks ago.6 showed up in the blood so they're for the chop now.5 of the 6 of coarse are in calf as I did scanning last week on about 113 between cows and heifers.had myself geared up for more to go.hopefully this has found whatever lodger is there.all the same age group of 2nd to 4th calvers and as anyone else knows not bad auld milkers to boot.it's never a bad one!.

Big problem this side of db, your in Templemore area?

boggerman1

kevthegaff wrote: »

Big problem this side of db, your in Templemore area?

Ya other side of the bit.I'm the only one down of the farms around me.

Mortelaro

Timmaay wrote: »

Welcome to the average summer here in Wicklow.

Just 0.8mm here since july 1
Might get a bit tomorrow but next w/end and next week nothing I'd say
We're in it alright

Timmaay

Mortelaro wrote: »

Just 0.8mm here since july 1
Might get a bit tomorrow but next w/end and next week nothing I'd say
We're in it alright

I'm actually half woundering do I fill a shed with hay here now given how little demand there is for it, worst case it sits there for a Yr or 2 until the next fodder crisis. As cheap insurance incase we were to get a solid drought until say October then a long winter.

Mortelaro

Old hay is like old gold as the saying goes

visatorro

Mortelaro wrote: »

Old hay is like old gold as the saying goes

Better buying something when it's cheap as well. And at least this year its mostly been saved without rain

straight

Having a shed for it is the problem here

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

I'm actually half woundering do I fill a shed with hay here now given how little demand there is for it, worst case it sits there for a Yr or 2 until the next fodder crisis. As cheap insurance incase we were to get a solid drought until say October then a long winter.

Loads of it around ,saved well ,cheap but feed value would be poor bought 30 bales myself but going to wrap it as no shed space ,be grand to dry off cows

jaymla627

Anyone else a bit uneasy with the fanfare around protected urea given its turning up some fairly serious issues in New Zealand re locking up organic n and traces of it been found in milk samples...
It’s been promoted as a golden bullet for emissions issues re fertilizer with very little information on the downsides of it...

Say my name

jaymla627 wrote: »

Anyone else a bit uneasy with the fanfare around protected urea given its turning up some fairly serious issues in New Zealand re locking up organic n and traces of it been found in milk samples...
It’s been promoted as a golden bullet for emissions issues re fertilizer with very little information on the downsides of it...

Have you a link for that information?

I used a bit myself earlier on this year but stopped when I heard those rumours. I heard those rumours on another farming forum.
Rightly or wrongly I haven't been using fertilizer in the last round and a half. If it does effect organic N it'd be a disaster for what I'm trying to achieve.

yewtree

The compond used in protected urea was never found in milk. Traces of DCD were found in milk in nz a completely different compond used to prevent nitrogen losses in pastures

yosemitesam1

yewtree wrote: »

The compond used in protected urea was never found in milk. Traces of DCD were found in milk in nz a completely different compond used to prevent nitrogen losses in pastures

If protected urea gets the uptake that's planned for it, wouldn't be surprised if it starts showing up everywhere. No different to any other widely used chemical.
It's only role is to cut ammonia emissions, GHG emissions are separate. AFAIK the effects of incorporation at farm level have not been looked at. So you save a bit of n from volatilization when spreading fert, more n in grass or soil could mean more potential for increased emissions from urine patches, leaching etc...

Mooooo

Couple of showers today welcome. In other news mower caught a water pipe which I thought was buried , taking me all fecking morning to find the other end of it

mengele

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

If protected urea gets the uptake that's planned for it, wouldn't be surprised if it starts showing up everywhere. No different to any other widely used chemical.
It's only role is to cut ammonia emissions, GHG emissions are separate. AFAIK the effects of incorporation at farm level have not been looked at. So you save a bit of n from volatilization when spreading fert, more n in grass or soil could mean more potential for increased emissions from urine patches, leaching etc...

Would you nearly need to be wearing masks when loading that protected urea stuff. How dangerous is that chemical?

Dakota Dan

visatorro wrote: »

Better buying something when it's cheap as well. And at least this year its mostly been saved without rain

I’d say a lot of it was baked too soon as we only had a couple of real warm days.

Dakota Dan

Anyone know why milk protein is dropping in July? Milk yield is normal plenty grass and 3kg ration. It was at 3.42 at peak during May and now down to 3.22.

yosemitesam1

mengele wrote: »

Would you nearly need to be wearing masks when loading that protected urea stuff. How dangerous is that chemical?

No idea, it will be the most widely spread agrochemical in the country so it wouldn't want to be

whelan2

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Anyone know why milk protein is dropping in July? Milk yield is normal plenty grass and 3kg ration. It was at 3.42 at peak during May and now down to 3.22.

What's grass quality like, what meal and how much of it are they on. At 3.55 protein here atm

trixi2011

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Anyone know why milk protein is dropping in July? Milk yield is normal plenty grass and 3kg ration. It was at 3.42 at peak during May and now down to 3.22.

Will definitely be energy content of the diet . Grass quality most likely the cause

Dakota Dan

whelan2 wrote: »

What's grass quality like, what meal and how much of it are they on. At 3.55 protein here atm

A bit of stem from the last round but grassy at the base, they are on 14% dairy ration 3 kegs a day.

whelan2

Dakota Dan wrote: »

A bit of stem from the last round but grassy at the base, they are on 14% dairy ration 3 kegs a day.

Milk urea?

mahoney_j

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Anyone know why milk protein is dropping in July? Milk yield is normal plenty grass and 3kg ration. It was at 3.42 at peak during May and now down to 3.22.

Grass gone to stemmy and strong,no amount meal will bring it up what covers u grazing ??leafy high energy 12/1500 kg covers will sort it

Dakota Dan

whelan2 wrote: »

Milk urea?

Dairygold don’t give results for urea. I wonder would an independent test be any good?

Pidae.m

Mooooo wrote: »

Couple of showers today welcome. In other news mower caught a water pipe which I thought was buried , taking me all fecking morning to find the other end of it

Should have got a diviner

Mooooo

Grass quality, dropped from 3.6 to 3.5 had one at 3.47. The burst of growth in June I'd say. Ask the milk manager to get them to send urea results. Mine have been normal, higher than when I had higher protein actually

Mooooo

Pidae.m wrote: »

Should have got a diviner

It was the end to take the the water I was looking for

Dakota Dan

Mooooo wrote: »

It was the end to take the the water I was looking for

Divining rods would still find it whether there’s water in the pipe or not and you could probably do it yourself as 4 out of 5 people can use divining.

Timmaay

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Divining rods would still find it whether there’s water in the pipe or not and you could probably do it yourself as 4 out of 5 people can use divining.

Duno would I believe too much in divining.

Dakota Dan

Timmaay wrote: »

Duno would I believe too much in divining.

Did you ever try it?

Timmaay

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Did you ever try it?

Sums it up for me. There simply is zero physical bases for it.

White Clover

I have had a lot of land divined for drainage purposes here. All i know is that the place would be some mess without it.

jaymla627

Justin McCarthy and the journal in general have well and truely lost the plot, beef industry is on its knees and they’re advocating banning the Bobby calf route and subsidizing beef farmers to rear suck calves it’s nuts....
Simply economics means of the 1.5 million odd plus calves that are likely to come off the dairy herd going forward at least half a million of these need to be exported our go the Bobby calf route, theirs simply no other way around it, given the constrains re nitrates and environmental b**s**t that’s going to be forced on us down the line

Water John

A bit late for everyone now trying to repair the damage by extreme dairy breeding, esp JEx. I have no problem with someone having a pure Jersey herd, but see clowns in the mart this spring selling their black things for €5. Too much brass neck to be embarrassed doing it.
BTW not sure there many more cows in the country now than the late 70s. They have just congregated into larger herds.

Panch18

jaymla627 wrote: »

Justin McCarthy and the journal in general have well and truely lost the plot, beef industry is on its knees and they’re advocating banning the Bobby calf route and subsidizing beef farmers to rear suck calves it’s nuts....
Simply economics means of the 1.5 million odd plus calves that are likely to come off the dairy herd going forward at least half a million of these need to be exported our go the Bobby calf route, theirs simply no other way around it, given the constrains re nitrates and environmental b**s**t that’s going to be forced on us down the line

Personally I don't think we need to go down the bobby calf route - or should I say if the dairy increase had been managed correctly I don't think we would need to go down that route. Introducing Jersey into the national diary herd in pretty large numbers was madness in my opinion, and very short sighted. It also showed a complete lack of awareness of the relationship between dairy and beef.

I think our suckler herd will be culled - and quite a large cull. To be replaced with rearing diary stock, forestry and various other enterprises

Panch18

It's also worth bearing in mind that the total number of cows in the country hasn't changed too much in the last 3 years. It is floating around 2.3m for the last 3 years - the increase in dairy numbers was offset by the fall in suckler cows

Water John

Yes, it's another one of those myths being tossed around, that their is more calves in the country than ever, not true.

Timmaay

You's can say what you like about jex, but simple as is the jex here in my herd on average pull their weight alot better than most other cows, and I've a good mix of everything from pure br Fr (who have the fertility but just not the litres or ms) to half ho/br Fr to 100% ho.

Panch18

Water John wrote: »

Yes, it's another one of those myths being tossed around, that their is more calves in the country than ever, not true.

A quick look at the CSO tells us that in 1995 there was 1.25m dairy cows and just over 1m suckler cows this is remarkably similar to where we are today on cow numbers.

The real thing to note is that it's suckler cows that have seen the dramatic increase in this country going from 450k in the early 80's to about 1.25m in by 2000. That's a phenominal increase. Of course there was a subsidy for sucklers in the 90's which explains that dramatic increase.

Note also that we still have less dairy cows, by a few hundred thousand, today than we did at the start of the quota - so the phrase dairy boom is all relative (obviously yields are better now, but still). It also goes to show that many people with a few diary cows can have more cows than a few people with a lot of cows.

I think that we are going to see a dramatic fall in suckler numbers in the next few years, but we need to bear in mind that it will simply be reversing the trend of the 90's. I would say closer to 5-600 thousand sucklers is what Ireland will have in the next decade. Like everything it goes back to what it was

Water John

That's fine Tim, the cow will produce milk and solids but there is a bigger picture. You also have a calf every year. The use of that calf in the system is your responsiblity. Not to be pawned off for a €5. For farmers their is a whole social impact side and opinion on animal welfare etc.
A jersey bull calf in Ireland is trying to put a round peg into a square hole.

Panch18

Timmaay wrote: »

You's can say what you like about jex, but simple as is the jex here in my herd on average pull their weight alot better than most other cows, and I've a good mix of everything from pure br Fr (who have the fertility but just not the litres or ms) to half ho/br Fr to 100% ho.

With such a mix in your herd how can you make such a statement? like something must give because your 100% hol need a whole different type of management to your Jersey for instance and unless they are in different bunches and getting different treatment then neither is getting its optimal treatment I would say

cute geoge

Water John wrote: »

A bit late for everyone now trying to repair the damage by extreme dairy breeding, esp JEx. I have no problem with someone having a pure Jersey herd, but see clowns in the mart this spring selling their black things for €5. Too much brass neck to be embarrassed doing it.
BTW not sure there many more cows in the country now than the late 70s. They have just congregated into larger herds.

The big problem this spring was not jex sold for €5 but their was a share of nice fr bull and wh heifers sold around that price as well .There was nothing wrong with the calves only a glut in the market ,no shipping and no one having interest rearing them!!

tanko

Panch18 wrote: »

A quick look at the CSO tells us that in 1995 there was 1.25m dairy cows and just over 1m suckler cows this is remarkably similar to where we are today on cow numbers.

The real thing to note is that it's suckler cows that have seen the dramatic increase in this country going from 450k in the early 80's to about 1.25m in by 2000. That's a phenominal increase. Of course there was a subsidy for sucklers in the 90's which explains that dramatic increase.

Note also that we still have less dairy cows, by a few hundred thousand, today than we did at the start of the quota - so the phrase dairy boom is all relative (obviously yields are better now, but still). It also goes to show that many people with a few diary cows can have more cows than a few people with a lot of cows.

I think that we are going to see a dramatic fall in suckler numbers in the next few years, but we need to bear in mind that it will simply be reversing the trend of the 90's. I would say closer to 5-600 thousand sucklers is what Ireland will have in the next decade. Like everything it goes back to what it was

I like the way you conveniently glossed over the massive increase in milk yields.
How many litres are being produced today compared to 1995 and how does the price paid today compare to 1995?
How does the profit per cow compare between now and then?

Panch18

tanko wrote: »

I like the way you conveniently glossed over the massive increase in milk yields.
How many litres are being produced today compared to 1995 and how does the price paid today compare to 1995?
How does the profit per cow compare between now and then?

Massive increase in Yields? It might not be as big as you think. There was a lot of Hol used back then but I don't have exact figures for production per cow

For sure the price is no better today than it was in 1995 - imagine that you are getting paid the same price per litre as 1995

and without a shadow of doubt the profit per cows was much much better back then

Timmaay

Panch18 wrote: »

With such a mix in your herd how can you make such a statement? like something must give because your 100% hol need a whole different type of management to your Jersey for instance and unless they are in different bunches and getting different treatment then neither is getting its optimal treatment I would say

I still buffer a decent bit here when needs be (maize and leafy bales from early Nov right through until the end of spring if needed), and them few big HOs certainly know how to get their fair share at the feed space lol, they all get flat rate feed in the parlour but I really don't think intakes are an issue, no I'm never going to get the 40 or 50l potential out of them HOs but I don't think they are in any worse of a negative energy because of my system than if they were in a tmr system etc.

No massive walks around here either (Lane ways could be better but not bad either) , winter housing is average, however I'm all spring calving now so winter housing is less of an issue, however simple as is I get more high SCC/mastitis, more lameness and higher empty rates in the B&W cows than the jex, and as a result the jex tend to be more perseverance, alongside the jex putting out similar yearly ms to the average B&W, but at a lower bodyweight.

And I'm not saying that jex are the be all and end, and I still have plenty of B&W cows that I'm well happy with here, but to call jex a mistake I disagree with, and many other dairyfarmers up and down the country will continue to keep on using them. Yep the 5e calf is a big problem, but once they keep getting that 5e they will keep on using them. I got 5e for some HO calves this spring also however....

jaymla627

cute geoge wrote: »

The big problem this spring was not jex sold for €5 but their was a share of nice fr bull and wh heifers sold around that price as well .There was nothing wrong with the calves only a glut in the market ,no shipping and no one having interest rearing them!!

That’s the standout point, their is going to be no appetite to rear these calves given their is no hope of any return from any form of beef animal going forward be it jex our a u grade Belgian blue bull.....
It’s all well and good going on about the industry’s moral compass but unless the higher powers see fit actually leave a margin for the beef farmer the whole deck of cards falls down, the journal running the headline that bull beef isn’t wanted our economical and then Justin waxing lyrically about finishing beef/dairy x bulls into the future is dumbfounding

Timmaay

jaymla627 wrote: »

That’s the standout point, their is going to be no appetite to rear these calves given their is no hope of any return from any form of beef animal going forward be it jex our a u grade Belgian blue bull.....
It’s all well and good going on about the industry’s moral compass but unless the higher powers see fit actually leave a margin for the beef farmer the whole deck of cards falls down, the journal running the headline that bull beef isn’t wanted our economical and then Justin waxing lyrically about finishing beef/dairy x bulls into the future is dumbfounding

We all end up down the Bobby calf road, regardless of if its a jex or pure ho then. And unfortunately to say that might wash under some sort of "carbon efficiency" parameter, its better to Bobby calf them rather than rear them.

Panch18

This is a graph from the CSO of milk price throughout the 1990's. As you will see it didn't go below 25 cent a litre and hovered around the 27-29 cent a litre for most of the decade. Much more stable price - and when you compare costs in the 90's to costs now its easy to see how a cow was making a lot more money back then

Panch18

jaymla627 wrote: »

That’s the standout point, their is going to be no appetite to rear these calves given their is no hope of any return from any form of beef animal going forward be it jex our a u grade Belgian blue bull.....
It’s all well and good going on about the industry’s moral compass but unless the higher powers see fit actually leave a margin for the beef farmer the whole deck of cards falls down, the journal running the headline that bull beef isn’t wanted our economical and then Justin waxing lyrically about finishing beef/dairy x bulls into the future is dumbfounding

The problem here is that the journal and Teagasc are pushing beef down the low margin high cost as many numbers as you can route. It's amazing they want fellas to pump 2 or 3 times as much nuts into a bull for low margin than into a dairy cow who has the capacity to make much more money than any bull.

The logic of that doesn't make sense. Beef should be about low cost as possible - that's the only hope you have of making any bit of money from it