Dairy Chitchat 3

Mooooo

straight wrote: »

Lads will eventually get sick of running to keep up with the rest of society. Plenty farms around here with nobody from the next generation to follow on. Milk price will have to rise. But milk supply will fall below demand first.

But that's it, nobody to take over so lads will exit with that land possibly becoming part of a bigger enterprise then. The question will be if returns and land values correct or change. It's the same the world over costs rise on the primary producers but prices for milk/ grain / beef stagnate and scale becomes more important. I think lads are deluded if they think cutting stocking rates will lead to a better price of milk. When farms are smaller cutting stocking rates reduces income and then makes them unviable in there own right. I could be different to a lot of lads but tbh I view the ability of the farm to pay labour as a requisite of being someway sustainable as will 100 cows in 15/ 20 years time be enough to give an average income. Sheds/ land need to be maintained , machinery changed, mortgages, family costs etc all have to be paid and they will increase in cost. My peers be they teachers, accountants , engineers will all likely have their income increase over the next 30 years before retirement. Sure their will be ups and downs but if I want to increase my income as will be needed into the future staying the same is unlikely to do that

Water John

I think the sh1t is hitting the fan much earlier than next spring.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/almost-30000-male-calves-slaughtered-at-10-days-old-last-year-968607.html

We have had posters on the farming threads denying calves were euthenaised.

Issue that needs to dealt with but were're late already with Kiwi cross cow.

straight

Mooooo wrote: »

But that's it, nobody to take over so lads will exit with that land possibly becoming part of a bigger enterprise then. The question will be if returns and land values correct or change. It's the same the world over costs rise on the primary producers but prices for milk/ grain / beef stagnate and scale becomes more important. I think lads are deluded if they think cutting stocking rates will lead to a better price of milk. When farms are smaller cutting stocking rates reduces income and then makes them unviable in there own right. I could be different to a lot of lads but tbh I view the ability of the farm to pay labour as a requisite of being someway sustainable as will 100 cows in 15/ 20 years time be enough to give an average income. Sheds/ land need to be maintained , machinery changed, mortgages, family costs etc all have to be paid and they will increase in cost. My peers be they teachers, accountants , engineers will all likely have their income increase over the next 30 years before retirement. Sure their will be ups and downs but if I want to increase my income as will be needed into the future staying the same is unlikely to do that

Scale is not the answer imho. Too labour intensive and too capital intensive. Risk increases and return decreases. Fellas can just get a job with time off pensions, etc. Keep the land for a bit of hobby farming or growing hemp or some other crop.

jaymla627

Water John wrote: »

I think the sh1t is hitting the fan much earlier than next spring.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/almost-30000-male-calves-slaughtered-at-10-days-old-last-year-968607.html

We have had posters on the farming threads denying calves were euthenaised.

Issue that needs to dealt with but were're late already with Kiwi cross cow.

Imagen doing a nuffield scholarship paper on farmer led animal welfare then openly admitting to bobbying your bull calves at 10 days old, tiny bit hipocritically

Water John

Well those were sent to an abbotoir, not hit with a lump hammer as in NZ.

The debate is very late. The national interest was always a dual purpose type calf.

Keep Sluicing

Water John wrote: »

I think the sh1t is hitting the fan much earlier than next spring.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/almost-30000-male-calves-slaughtered-at-10-days-old-last-year-968607.html

We have had posters on the farming threads denying calves were euthenaised.

Issue that needs to dealt with but were're late already with Kiwi cross cow.

My sister in law text me about this 20 mins ago. She lives in bray, no farming connection at all.... and she's spitting fire about cruel farmers. What will she be like after watching the programme tonight.

Say my name

Water John wrote: »

I think the sh1t is hitting the fan much earlier than next spring.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/almost-30000-male-calves-slaughtered-at-10-days-old-last-year-968607.html

We have had posters on the farming threads denying calves were euthenaised.

Issue that needs to dealt with but were're late already with Kiwi cross cow.

We've had posters who publicly posted to have first hand knowledge of on farm slaughter without reporting it.

The market of factorying animals has been well posted on here these last few years especially those who had jersey x.

Mortelaro

If ever there was an example of unnecessary journalism

Panch18

When are people going to get it into their heads about McCullogh and his agenda

He is the most dangerous person in Irish agri at the moment

Mortelaro

I don't think its deliberate
Just not an ounce of cop on

Say my name

Mortelaro wrote: »

If ever there was an example of unnecessary journalism

It'll be ceasarians and artificial insemination on next weeks program.

Then it'll be those poor cuddly pigs and lambs.

jaymla627

Panch18 wrote: »

When are people going to get it into their heads about McCullogh and his agenda

He is the most dangerous person in Irish agri at the moment

He's also leasing land to and has a small share in a large cross breed dairy herd, why would you sabotage yourself and business interests for, rte must have him on a fair salary

Say my name

jaymla627 wrote: »

He's also leasing land to and has a small share in a large cross breed dairy herd, why would you sabotage yourself and business interests for, rte must have him on a fair salary

"Cos he's doing the right thing"

He's grand. His business partner is probably a jolly easy going sort.

whelan2

jaymla627 wrote: »

He's also leasing land to and has a small share in a large cross breed dairy herd, why would you sabotage yourself and business interests for, rte must have him on a fair salary

I don't know if that lease is still going on

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

I don't know if that lease is still going on

Might explain his sudden crusade against Irsh dairyjng if their was sour apples

whelan2

Does anyone have these cubicle ends , do cows legs get caught under them.?

Castlekeeper

Well watch it first, given the probability that there's a Prime time special horror coming up, it might be no harm to be out of the blocks beforehand. Greenwashing won't work so we're better off with the reality.

Castlekeeper

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

In fairness Jay it’s not as easy as all that.
Teagasc are kinda caught between a rock and a hard place. Farms are small, milk price is poor, and farmers need to pile on as many cows/ha as possible.
The real dilemma is farm size.

I heard a man from Oxfam say years ago. "In Asia the one cow house is told they need a second, in Europe the 100 cow herd is advised they need 200, and in the US the 1000 cow unit is told they 2000"

It stuck with me.

Water John

Shooting the messenger solves nothing. AFAIK it's Ella McSweeney is carrying the piece. Don't know who makes the editorial decisions on ETTG.

Iv'e said before Iv'e no absolute position as we euthanaise male goats and chicks.
But we need to be prepared for the wider impact, deserved or otherwise, and also carry it out humanely.

Say my name

Water John wrote: »

Shooting the messenger solves nothing. AFAIK it's Ella McSweeney is carrying the piece. Don't know who makes the editorial decisions on ETTG.

Iv'e said before Iv'e no absolute position as we euthanaise male goats and chicks.
But we need to be prepared for the wider impact, deserved or otherwise, and also carry it out humanely.

Reporting your friend who you have first hand knowledge of might be a start.

mahoney_j

This programme tonight and supposed prime time documentary are not going to do us any favours suppose we may suck it up get on with it and just ensure we do everything to best of our ability ,99.9% of farmers care for stock nearly better than we look after ourselves but like in every industry there’s bad eggs

Say my name

mahoney_j wrote: »

This programme tonight and supposed prime time documentary are not going to do us any favours suppose we may suck it up get on with it and just ensure we do everything to best of our ability ,99.9% of farmers care for stock nearly better than we look after ourselves but like in every industry there’s bad eggs

There's always been welfare problems with stock. There's welfare problems with companion animals too.
It may be a minority but it's still incumbent on every individual to report those cases and not let it become the norm.
The majority of these cases can/usually are linked to the mental health of the owners but it's seen now in farming that it's a financial decision from the marketplace too. There's nonsense talk about social license being placed on farmer's backs but it works both ways too.

Water John

It was someone I met, and his story of his own family was believable. I never had a name.
Let's see the programme. I just made the info available as some were saying the problem hadn't existed and wouldn't be a problem next spring.

straight

There's plenty people out there that have bitten off more than they can chew. Numbers men driven on by the industry

alps

Water John wrote: »

Shooting the messenger solves nothing. AFAIK it's Ella McSweeney is carrying the piece. Don't know who makes the editorial decisions on ETTG.

Iv'e said before Iv'e no absolute position as we euthanaise male goats and chicks.
But we need to be prepared for the wider impact, deserved or otherwise, and also carry it out humanely.

I'm absolutely disgusted with the reported comments of the farmer and Pat Dillon...lets see if that what they actually said..


Saying.....he had no choice but to send 22 male calves to slaughter.......#uch me pink

Water John

BTW, his mother wrote some weeks ago about breeding the Kiwi X being bred back to AA to try and sell them. Wouldn't you be stuck with a lovely lad.

whelan2

Who feeds calves hay as a second feed? Young calves wouldnt eat it

Water John

That to any farmer sounded daft.

alps

Water John wrote: »

That to any farmer sounded daft.

It was a rediculous comment by Boyle....she has her knickers in a twist over calf welfare for some time, and that touch of daftness comes through in her papers..

whelan2

Water John wrote: »

That to any farmer sounded daft.

Yes but to a non farmer it's real

whelan2

Just wondering this figure of 30k calves that were euthanized at 10 days does that include calve that died on farm?

GrasstoMilk

alps wrote: »

I'm absolutely disgusted with the reported comments of the farmer and Pat Dillon...lets see if that what they actually said..


Saying.....he had no choice but to send 22 male calves to slaughter.......#uch me pink

I think he clarified well what he actually said at thise calf events. Like most stuff these days, taken out if context and twisted to suit the narrative!

Colm o Leary though!? Ffs
Does a nuffield in animal welfare, goes on country wide last week and says they stopped freeze branding because he thought it was unnecessary pain..........then tonight he says he sent 22 calves to slaughter! Jesus wept!

Water John

Wouldn't think so, but the AOs keep a keen eye on any farm with abnormal mortality levels.
That 10 day rule is something designed by someone with good intentions but not actual reality. The calf would be better off dead on day 1.

jaymla627

Water John wrote: »

Shooting the messenger solves nothing. AFAIK it's Ella McSweeney is carrying the piece. Don't know who makes the editorial decisions on ETTG.

Iv'e said before Iv'e no absolute position as we euthanaise male goats and chicks.
But we need to be prepared for the wider impact, deserved or otherwise, and also carry it out humanely.

Water John wrote: »

BTW, his mother wrote some weeks ago about breeding the Kiwi X being bred back to AA to try and sell them. Wouldn't you be stuck with a lovely lad.

Mammy wont be able to write her lovely calf rearing stories now in the journal when spring rolls around now that the truth is out their, what in the name of God he was hoping to achieve by publishing the fact he bobbies calves on national television is dumbfonding.....
He offered up no solutions to the problem either, was all about the bottom dollar

Water John

Having a bull calf that could make €250/300 is a great insurance for the years when milk price is poor.
Many have swallowed the Kiwi X as their cow. BTW I can understand where a pure Jersey herd would euthanase their bull calves. This is a small niche.
The mainstream herd should always have kept the two markets in mind.
When Dillon and co sat down in 2010 to map the future, they started with milk expansion. They did not start with Irish Farming Inc. Started with too narrow a vision.

wrangler

whelan2 wrote: »

Just wondering this figure of 30k calves that were euthanized at 10 days does that include calve that died on farm?

When Beef plan were slagging dairy farmers last spring they claimed that 20000 were slaughtered.
It's out there since then, too late now to stop the information, it's time now to minimise calf slaughter

straight

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I think he clarified well what he actually said at thise calf events. Like most stuff these days, taken out if context and twisted to suit the narrative!

Colm o Leary though!? Ffs
Does a nuffield in animal welfare, goes on country wide last week and says they stopped freeze branding because he thought it was unnecessary pain..........then tonight he says he sent 22 calves to slaughter! Jesus wept!

There's feck all pain in freeze branding. Feck all cost either.

Birdnuts

straight wrote: »

Scale is not the answer imho. Too labour intensive and too capital intensive. Risk increases and return decreases. Fellas can just get a job with time off pensions, etc. Keep the land for a bit of hobby farming or growing hemp or some other crop.

I'm inclined to agree with this - pig and poultry went down this route and had to struggle with ever lower margins

Say my name

Water John wrote: »

Having a bull calf that could make €250/300 is a great insurance for the years when milk price is poor.
Many have swallowed the Kiwi X as their cow. BTW I can understand where a pure Jersey herd would euthanase their bull calves. This is a small niche.
The mainstream herd should always have kept the two markets in mind.
When Dillon and co sat down in 2010 to map the future, they started with milk expansion. They did not start with Irish Farming Inc. Started with too narrow a vision.

Soap boxing much John? ..since you're not milking yourself.

There's a fair sizeable majority still there that haven't gone down the big expansion route or gone away from the type of cows they always had.

Water John

Agree, it's the Kiwi x that is the animal that can't be sold on.

I, at present, don't buy dairy x offspring. I buy suckler weanlings. If that market dries up then would have to consider them. Then I know a few guys who have always bought Fr and Fr X to carry to beef and still do.

straight

Birdnuts wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree with this - pig and poultry went down this route and had to struggle with ever lower margins

https://time.com/5736789/small-american-farmers-debt-crisis-extinction/

Keepgrowing

jaymla627 wrote: »

Mammy wont be able to write her lovely calf rearing stories now in the journal when spring rolls around now that the truth is out their, what in the name of God he was hoping to achieve by publishing the fact he bobbies calves on national television is dumbfonding.....
He offered up no solutions to the problem either, was all about the bottom dollar

All about profile, this time it’s low profile

dmakc

I'm sorry but i have to say that O'Leary is nothing short of a b*ll**ks. My heart bleeds for his pitiful self milking 240 cows getting to go on national TV saying he's no choice but to kill calves after 10 days. If you find yourself doing what he does it might be time to cut back and not be a selfish p***k, never mind dragging the image of the industry down with you. Maybe we do deserve to go down?

Water John

I think that is a moment of change. His lack of self awareness reminded me of P Flynn on LLS moaning about having to maintain three houses.

jaymla627

Water John wrote: »

I think that is a moment of change. His lack of self awareness reminded me of P Flynn on LLS moaning about having to maintain three houses.

To be fair he’s a product of his environment, up until this year the Teagasc tagline was bull calf equals by-product, that needs to be got of farm as quickly and cheaply as possible, the cherry on top is sending collage students in the various guises be it ucd our kildalton out to New Zealand where bolt guns on farms and shooting calves is perfectly normal practice.....
The chaps only problem is for all his studies and degrees he hasn’t any wit, our proper guidance, a boot up the hole was what was needed whenever he floated the idea of Ella coming out for a chat to mammy and daddy

Water John

I think they had about 80 cows until fairly recently. Lack of self critical thinking seems a common trait in many gung ho expansionists.

Say my name

I'll never slate anyone if I can help it.

But the talk of going on national tv..
Maybe posters here need reminding there's zero difference in what's posted here and what's broadcast to the nation?

There's no angels here.

alps

Im hearing that teagasc advisors are being brought in and having their hard drives erased.


They are to be reloaded with new software, where "expansion" is going to be classed as a bad word...


We're on for a big change...

mycro2013

To echo everything that has been said over the ear to ground program what was young o'Leary thinking. Ella played him and he showed his hand on national TV. Jaysus would his parents not have schooled him on media interviews. The interviewer is not your friend.

Injuryprone

Say my name wrote: »

I'll never slate anyone if I can help it.

But the talk of going on national tv..
Maybe posters here need reminding there's zero difference in what's posted here and what's broadcast to the nation?

There's no angels here.

Really......zero difference??
I think you're overestimating the popularity of this thread just a tad