Dairy Chitchat 3

alps

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

The figures I was given were 35 euro a week to heat 300 liters a day on night rate and 8 euro a week on gas to heat the same.
.

Where does the €35 come from?

Night rate electricity should less than 8c/unit. The 300l heaters are 3kw so will burn a maximum of 24c/hr.

It will heat the 300l to 80' in far less than the 8 hours of night rate, but in any case if you leave it switched on from midnight to 8 am it can only cost a maximum of €1.92/night or €13.44/ week..

If you use all the water in the morning and need to reheat during the day, then that will give a very different calculation.

Is €35 the declared electricity cost given by the gas co, as I know the savings declared by geyser are massively inflated?

orm0nd

whelan2 wrote: »

Where you clear before this

yeah, clear for years

straight

Morris Moss wrote: »

Went with oil here, 2 tanks is what we used for the year, it's another option for you anyway.

The gas salesman (I know) told me the oil were burning out. They are untested though. Some people just use an old oil boiler. Run it for half an hour a day.

straight

ozil10 wrote: »

Put in flogas tank a month ago
It had to be over 3m away from the building

That's a problem for me. Have sheds all around the parlour. Had intended putting it behind the feed bin.

Buford T. Justice XIX

alps wrote: »

Where does the €35 come from?

Night rate electricity should less than 8c/unit. The 300l heaters are 3kw so will burn a maximum of 24c/hr.

It will heat the 300l to 80' in far less than the 8 hours of night rate, but in any case if you leave it switched on from midnight to 8 am it can only cost a maximum of €1.92/night or €13.44/ week..

If you use all the water in the morning and need to reheat during the day, then that will give a very different calculation.

Is €35 the declared electricity cost given by the gas co, as I know the savings declared by geyser are massively inflated?

I called the Delaval dealer for a quote on any tanks they had or second hand ones to get me over the hump and they don't really have much to do with heaters much anymore.

Those were the figures he gave me. I would be doing a double hot wash some days, acid followed by caustic in the late afternoon when the water reheats so maybe that's where he was getting the figures?

Water John

The calf problem, which was denied, should never have been left fester. Those giving out about the media miss the point. If there was nothing to report there would be no story, that simple.
Those involved, own it. Others will suffer though.

But don't worry just watch the provision of sexed semen being hailed as the answer. But who'll be paying for that?

GrasstoMilk

Water John wrote: »

The calf problem, which was denied, should never have been left fester. Those giving out about the media miss the point. If there was nothing to report there would be no story, that simple.
Those involved, own it. Others will suffer though.

But don't worry just watch the provision of sexed semen being hailed as the answer. But who'll be paying for that?

What's your solution?

Water John

Like the old fella giving directions. If I was laying out the best path, I wouldn't be starting from here.
But we have to look at what we've got. Certainly sexed semen, thus a facility in this country, is one good tool.
If we are saying, we're not euthenasing, then we have to rear the calves. To have them profitable they need significant beef or dual purpose input, despite the nonsense being talked by some 'experts',
We need 20/25% replacement so just over one million going to beef from the dairy herd.
Breaking it down further, how many are presenting a real problem and what present s a problem? Kiwi x definitely and some Fr Holsteins.
The Fr Holstein just often need time to grow. If they are not penalised under 36 months they should be ok.
So over the next few years, weed out the Kiwi X completely.

visatorro

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I called the Delaval dealer for a quote on any tanks they had or second hand ones to get me over the hump and they don't really have much to do with heaters much anymore.

Those were the figures he gave me. I would be doing a double hot wash some days, acid followed by caustic in the late afternoon when the water reheats so maybe that's where he was getting the figures?

Did you ring dairy master? they owe you a favour surely!

Buford T. Justice XIX

visatorro wrote: »

Did you ring dairy master? they owe you a favour surely!

They owe me a lot of them!!!!

Not a chance that I'll be contacting them again to buy anything. It will pain me to call them for a repair on the scrapers:mad:

the full back

Water John wrote: »

Like the old fella giving directions. If I was laying out the best path, I wouldn't be starting from here.
But we have to look at what we've got. Certainly sexed semen, thus a facility in this country, is one good tool.
If we are saying, we're not euthenasing, then we have to rear the calves. To have them profitable they need significant beef or dual purpose input, despite the nonsense being talked by some 'experts',
We need 20/25% replacement so just over one million going to beef from the dairy herd.
Breaking it down further, how many are presenting a real problem and what present s a problem? Kiwi x definitely and some Fr Holsteins.
The Fr Holstein just often need time to grow. If they are not penalised under 36 months they should be ok.
So over the next few years, weed out the Kiwi X completely.

Would a total revamp of the grid not be more in line. In other parts of the world they're able to produce bulls from the dairy herd and slaughter them off grass with little to no concentrate input. If we weren't penalised so heavily on fat score there is no reason it couldn't happen here too

Morris Moss

straight wrote: »

The gas salesman (I know) told me the oil were burning out. They are untested though. Some people just use an old oil boiler. Run it for half an hour a day.

The brothers a plumber so we put in a new oil boiler, we were told it's the cheapest overall but I wouldn't be certain of that.

Grueller

Just kicking an idea around here in my head. I have been planning to pay for my parlour from my own borrowings with no grant to get started sooner. There is a tranche of the dairy equipment scheme closing January 13th. So question 1, Roughly how long would approval take if I were to go for this?
I want to start in March at the latest as it may help me to avoid a new entrant levy. A glanbia man tells me that 2021 entrants will definitely be paying one. My parlour is basic and the grant on it will only be circa €11k but I might add acrs if I thought that it would be approved quickly.
Question 2, Would I be better just applying for the grant for auto wash and feed system as was the original plan and doing the parlour myself? These 2 could be added at minimal cost and disruption later when the grant was approved.
Question 3, a neighbour tells me that I can't apply for a grant to add acrs to an existing parlour as they don't qualify only on a new parlour. Is this correct?

Morris Moss

Grueller wrote: »

Just kicking an idea around here in my head. I have been planning to pay for my parlour from my own borrowings with no grant to get started sooner. There is a tranche of the dairy equipment scheme closing January 13th. So question 1, Roughly how long would approval take if I were to go for this?
I want to start in March at the latest as it may help me to avoid a new entrant levy. A glanbia man tells me that 2021 entrants will definitely be paying one. My parlour is basic and the grant on it will only be circa €11k but I might add acrs if I thought that it would be approved quickly.
Question 2, Would I be better just applying for the grant for auto wash and feed system as was the original plan and doing the parlour myself? These 2 could be added at minimal cost and disruption later when the grant was approved.
Question 3, a neighbour tells me that I can't apply for a grant to add acrs to an existing parlour as they don't qualify only on a new parlour. Is this correct?

I'd be applying as soon as possible, get on to teagasc and ask them about it, you should be approved before March anyway.

On the second point you might as well apply for everything ( parlour, feeding, washing) because it's all under the same grant, it won't be any benefit either way if you only go for feeders and auto wash, also seai grant on the vacuum pump is available, it's another thing to ask about.

Third point, acrs aren't grant approved so you'll be paying for them either way, this is another reason you should go for the grant on the parlour itself.

K.G.

Grueller wrote: »

Just kicking an idea around here in my head. I have been planning to pay for my parlour from my own borrowings with no grant to get started sooner. There is a tranche of the dairy equipment scheme closing January 13th. So question 1, Roughly how long would approval take if I were to go for this?
I want to start in March at the latest as it may help me to avoid a new entrant levy. A glanbia man tells me that 2021 entrants will definitely be paying one. My parlour is basic and the grant on it will only be circa €11k but I might add acrs if I thought that it would be approved quickly.
Question 2, Would I be better just applying for the grant for auto wash and feed system as was the original plan and doing the parlour myself? These 2 could be added at minimal cost and disruption later when the grant was approved.
Question 3, a neighbour tells me that I can't apply for a grant to add acrs to an existing parlour as they don't qualify only on a new parlour. Is this correct?

Have you started already

whelan2

Morris Moss wrote: »

I'd be applying as soon as possible, get on to teagasc and ask them about it, you should be approved before March anyway.

On the second point you might as well apply for everything ( parlour, feeding, washing) because it's all under the same grant, it won't be any benefit either way if you only go for feeders and auto wash, also seai grant on the vacuum pump is available, it's another thing to ask about.

Third point, acrs aren't grant approved so you'll be paying for them either way, this is another reason you should go for the grant on the parlour itself.

Teagasc very busy up until Christmas with nitrates, derogation etc.

Morris Moss

whelan2 wrote: »

Teagasc very busy up until Christmas with nitrates, derogation etc.

Friend of mine was taken on recently just to deal with derogation, to be honest you could apply for the grant yourself but it's handy to have someone look over it for you, it'd be a 10 min job for them.

GrasstoMilk

Anyone ever use sanitise cubicle bedding from agritech

Panch18

the full back wrote: »

Would a total revamp of the grid not be more in line. In other parts of the world they're able to produce bulls from the dairy herd and slaughter them off grass with little to no concentrate input. If we weren't penalised so heavily on fat score there is no reason it couldn't happen here too

The grid is a joke to be honest and should be done away with

It should never have been changed in the first place, but again something was done to make the suckler farmers believe they had some kind of superior product. Well they don’t

1373

the full back wrote: »

Would a total revamp of the grid not be more in line. In other parts of the world they're able to produce bulls from the dairy herd and slaughter them off grass with little to no concentrate input. If we weren't penalised so heavily on fat score there is no reason it couldn't happen here too

I certainly don’t want beef which graded a fat score of 1 or 2- .when I’m buying prepacked beef , if there is no fat cover then I’ll leave it there and so will most

Grueller

K.G. wrote: »

Have you started already

The building is being done atm.

wrangler

Panch18 wrote: »

The grid is a joke to be honest and should be done away with

It should never have been changed in the first place, but again something was done to make the suckler farmers believe they had some kind of superior product. Well they don’t

How do you encourage farmers to sell quality if you don't penalise them for producing ****

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

How do you encourage farmers to sell quality if you don't penalise them for producing ****

I thought there was no difference in eating quality between e's & p's?

wrangler

Grueller wrote: »

I thought there was no difference in eating quality between e's & p's?

Big difference between a fatscore 1 and 3

Mooooo

I thought cross bred have no issue 're condition so far score shouldn't be an issue

the full back

1373 wrote: »

I certainly don’t want beef which graded a fat score of 1 or 2- .when I’m buying prepacked beef , if there is no fat cover then I’ll leave it there and so will most

When it's all minced up I doubt most would even notice

the full back

wrangler wrote: »

How do you encourage farmers to sell quality if you don't penalise them for producing ****

Top quality cattle struggle with fat score in the grid too so it's not just a problem with poorer quality stock

Millionaire only not

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Anyone ever use sanitise cubicle bedding from agritech

Yes using it with 7/8 years , I find it good easy to use , have to spread light on account of the price !

1373

the full back wrote: »

When it's all minced up I doubt most would even notice

True , but I’m talking about the cuts

alps

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Yes using it with 7/8 years , I find it good easy to use , have to spread light on account of the price !

How much would you spend per winter per cow would you think? We'd spend about €7 per cow on cubicle lime, which would not be as good a product..

Wildsurfer

alps wrote: »

How much would you spend per winter per cow would you think? We'd spend about €7 per cow on cubicle lime, which would not be as good a product..

Too dear to be using for full winter IMO. There's no doubt it is a nice product, it is very spreadable as in a you get good coverage from a small amount, very easy to spread with those vink spreaders too. I now use it only in the spring once cows start calving as that's the time you want things going right. I think they changed the formulation last year too as it used to have a lovely smell but very pungent odour last year.

Mooooo

Use about 3 tonne of 10% hydrate here. Occasionally get afew bags of stalosan f also. Can be mixed with the lime I think. Would lime the calving shed daily as well

GrasstoMilk

Wildsurfer wrote: »

Too dear to be using for full winter IMO. There's no doubt it is a nice product, it is very spreadable as in a you get good coverage from a small amount, very easy to spread with those vink spreaders too. I now use it only in the spring once cows start calving as that's the time you want things going right. I think they changed the formulation last year too as it used to have a lovely smell but very pungent odour last year.

If I used 50g per day it would cost the same amount as what I'm spending on lime and actisan

kevthegaff

Could ye get the stuff for the fields tipped I was wondering, only 17euro a ton

Wildsurfer

kevthegaff wrote: »

Could ye get the stuff for the fields tipped I was wondering, only 17euro a ton

Straight field lime is too dead as in it doesn't spread well, needs some hydrated through it to lighten it.

Millionaire only not

alps wrote: »

How much would you spend per winter per cow would you think? We'd spend about €7 per cow on cubicle lime, which would not be as good a product..

I buy about 70 bags think it’s near 16 a bag , I mainly only do the milking cows 150 in full milk but this time of year down to 50 .
Starting calving again in end jan - so near enough it’s 8/cow !
As I said only the milker’s twice a day and heifers once because there near parlour for training !

Also sealers on dry cows should be adequate once mats are dry and clean ,might spread lime from time to time but that’s it
We used lime for years but hard work , dirty rear quarters on cows from lime sticking and teats not clean , full of lime as well !
Some guys have very clean cows using lime but wasn’t 100% successful with us , definitely less mastitis with sanitise

K.G.

We decided to get a new tv and Netflix for Christmas so tonight we sat down to watch city slickers. the star of.the show was Jersey bull calf called norman-as alanis morrisette used to say........isnt ironic given the current discussion

alps

K.G. wrote: »

We decided to get a new tv and Netflix for Christmas so tonight we sat down to watch city slickers. the star of.the show was Jersey bull calf called norman-as alanis morrisette used to say........isnt ironic given the current discussion

Do you think the movies would be an outlet for them?

GrasstoMilk

straight wrote: »

Surely he could manage with a few less cows. It's the like of him that swallowed all the teagasc/new Zealand **** that's ruining the whole thing. The day I'm told that you cant make a living out of 100 cows - I'm out. The big boys can have at it. 2 bad years and alot of them will be broke.

What about getting 2 livings from 100 cows?

whelan2

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

What about getting 2 livings from 100 cows?

There are so many variables though. Is the oh working? Kids in college? Childcare? Borrowings? ......

K.G.

alps wrote: »

Do you think the movies would be an outlet for them?

Planet of the jerseys

einn32

whelan2 wrote: »

There are so many variables though. Is the oh working? Kids in college? Childcare? Borrowings? ......

What's a living?

Mortelaro

whelan2 wrote: »

There are so many variables though. Is the oh working? Kids in college? Childcare? Borrowings? ......

Aye,I know at least 3 dairy farmers who tell you they're doing great
In reality,their other half's plump salary is paying for the groceries,the car,the kids education etc
As my father always said,nothing helps a farm more than a good laying hen or a good c0ck in the case of a farmerette
Processors love this
As a long term strategy for new entrants, they really should be looking at setting up a dairy match making service
Plenty single high sslaried employees in the processors to get it going

Millionaire only not

Mortelaro wrote: »

Aye,I know at least 3 dairy farmers who tell you they're doing great
In reality,their other half's plump salary is paying for the groceries,the car,the kids education etc
As my father always said,nothing helps a farm more than a good laying hen or a good c0ck in the case of a farmerette
Processors love this
As a long term strategy for new entrants, they really should be looking at setting up a dairy match making service
Plenty single high sslaried employees in the processors to get it going

Yes and u will go a long way to find full time farmers !
There is a huge difference when ever bill has to be paid from the farm !
I know farms where they have been in a position go just farm away kids house car third level all virtually ran from wife’s wages !
Match making service good idea pity wasn’t around when I was looking (wanted good looking wife , hard worker grossing over 60k a year )

straight

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

What about getting 2 livings from 100 cows?

That's not a one man operation then. Different story.

straight

einn32 wrote: »

What's a living?

Average industrial wage at least

yosemitesam1

straight wrote: »

Average industrial wage at least

Before or after loans/continued investment paid for?

Mooooo

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Before or after loans/continued investment paid for?

Have to be after

mahoney_j

straight wrote: »

Average industrial wage at least

In reality some farmers and tegasc thru profit monitors would have us believe we work for nothing if they showed an accurate wage for hours worked the glossy looking picture would be well gone .throwing out cop of high teens low 20s is an insult

Buford T. Justice XIX

Debating whether to milk or not. The girls seem happy enough atm.