Dairy Chitchat 3

Say my name

Base price wrote: »

From memory after reading an article last year when cattle died due to botulism poisoning, tillage farmers can take in poultry waste but it has to be ploughed in immediately and cannot be spread on ground adjacent to livestock.

That happened down here in wexford.
A tillage farmer took in poultry waste from the north and crows brought some waste to a farm next door to the water troughs.

They say they didn't spread any but it's their business and an opposition group was set up.
https://www.highlandradio.com/2019/07/12/glenmore-estates-issue-statement-following-public-meeting/

jaymla627

Check your glanbia trading accounts online, agreed contra was taken before xmas for dec milk, check account today and they have made another contra deduction yesterday of dec milk

straight

Say my name wrote: »

It'd be nothing to them though. They're involved in the poultry litter business and digestate and gas production and so on.
Was there people complaining of the farm being a dumping ground for the stuff coming from across the border and especially with water quality in the estuary?

Like the man that won the lotto, they could keep farming until it's all gone.

Waffletraktor

Say my name wrote: »

I think there's already a plant of some sort on it?

From reports the locals had a committee set up against odours from animal manures used on farm and after the new owners moved in there was opposition to ditch clearances and tree felling.

It looks to me with all that's being going on since the farm changed ownership that the new owners were never serious about having it run as a dairy farm but just wanted to make the farm as machinery friendly as possible and just have the land bank for their business and to grow the maize or rye and take the digestate.

You'd have to wonder if the farm took in poultry waste then about botulism.

Normal straight feedstock ad doesn't really smell, no worse than dung from cattle certainly. You need rye and maize for max gas but other feedstock (grass/woodchip/beet etc) also to balance it out. Probably as much a case of the locals upset in the changes to how it's run.
Replace energy crop with subsidy farming :pac:.

GrasstoMilk

jaymla627 wrote: »

Check your glanbia trading accounts online, agreed contra was taken before xmas for dec milk, check account today and they have made another contra deduction yesterday of dec milk

You shouldn't allow contra. Get your full cheque and pay an agreed amount each month

whelan2

What's the story with the glanbia calender this year? Is it collection only in glanbia store? No branch in louth. Handy to have it in the dairy for writing heats etc on

whelan2

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You shouldn't allow contra. Get your full cheque and pay an agreed amount each month

I've heard with the end of the calender year looming there was a push to sort out accounts, it is possible the farmer didn't allow it

Birdnuts

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Normal straight feedstock ad doesn't really smell, no worse than dung from cattle certainly. You need rye and maize for max gas but other feedstock (grass/woodchip/beet etc) also to balance it out. Probably as much a case of the locals upset in the changes to how it's run.
Replace energy crop with subsidy farming :pac:.

They are very familiar with the phrase "cash for ash" in that part of the world - in any case it appears the new owners of the estate have rubbed everyone up the wrong way and certainly the environmental credentials of the place have taken a beating over in last year or two - what will happen next is anyone's guess.

jaymla627

straight wrote: »

Like the man that won the lotto, they could keep farming until it's all gone.

It's not the one man that owns it,he's a front for private investment funds, mothballing a 5 million plus euro investment after a year is bat s**t crazy

ted_182

Injuryprone wrote: »

The thing with spray paint is that it can't be immediately removed when she's going back into the tank. Can get a bit confusing if you've alot sprayed especially in the spring.

I use ordinary electric tape around each leg. I've yet to have one fall off. Tried the tail tape last year and it didn't seem as strong and a few of them split and fell off. You could always use 2 bracelets if that's what you're used to.

We spray over it with green spray, in other words green for go

Panch18

ted_182 wrote: »

We spray over it with green spray, in other words green for go

There’s a fella called ted1 on the vegan thread

For a second I thought we had been infiltrated!!!

Mortelaro

Some Quite generous litres given out in the new glanbia winter milk scheme offered to FMP members,must have been a low take up?
The quantities actually make it look much more profitable such that a decision versus spring in a good set up now would be marginal or better I think

Mooooo

Mortelaro wrote: »

Some Quite generous litres given out in the new glanbia winter milk scheme offered to FMP members,must have been a low take up?
The quantities actually make it look much more profitable such that a decision versus spring in a good set up now would be marginal or better I think

What is the pricing around the winter milk like?

Timmaay

Duno how long they will be out for but I'll take grazing whenever I can! No shortage of silage yet but animals are absolutely flying through it. Pgc of 1600 which is good for only closed up mid Oct, however afc only 950, the stuff that was grazed mid nov didn't grow much.

Mooooo

Timmaay wrote: »

Duno how long they will be out for but I'll take grazing whenever I can! No shortage of silage yet but animals are absolutely flying through it. Pgc of 1600 which is good for only closed up mid Oct, however afc only 950, the stuff that was grazed mid nov didn't grow much.

Ground saturated down here, talks of a dry spell after this week hopefully

Reggie.

Mooooo wrote: »

Ground saturated down here, talks of a dry spell after this week hopefully

Same as that. Ya wouldn't walk it

alps

Timmaay wrote: »

Duno how long they will be out for but I'll take grazing whenever I can! No shortage of silage yet but animals are absolutely flying through it. Pgc of 1600 which is good for only closed up mid Oct, however afc only 950, the stuff that was grazed mid nov didn't grow much.

How did you measure?

Buford T. Justice XIX

The Glanbia Calf Care event tomorrow is cancelled.
https://twitter.com/GIMILKQUALITY/status/1216437786632388609?s=19

wrangler

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

The Glanbia Calf Care event tomorrow is cancelled.
https://twitter.com/GIMILKQUALITY/status/1216437786632388609?s=19

Was anyone at the Calf care event at Alan Reids in Westmeath, he has some of my land rented and always has lovely well bred healthy calves on the land,
I meant to go to it myself, but succumbed to the flu

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

Was anyone at the Calf care event at Alan Reids in Westmeath, he has some of my land rented and always has lovely well bred healthy calves on the land,
I meant to go to it myself, but succumbed to the flu

Forgot to go

Timmaay

alps wrote: »

How did you measure?

Pure eyeballing, so them figures could be +/-200

K.G.

Just in case there are more dunce s like myself,order your tags.had clean forgot it only for being inside sorting a few things with the storm this morning

Mooooo

Nothing like a storm for first calf to land, all of 30 days early. Little heifer calf hopefully she'll do. Mother has a little springing

whelan2

Changed the liners and pulse tubes this morning. 90 minutes from start to finish. 3 of us at it

Sacrolyte

K.G. wrote: »

Just in case there are more dunce s like myself,order your tags.had clean forgot it only for being inside sorting a few things with the storm this morning

Ordered mine early in new year. Had them in a week. Cormac.

alps

Just back from an AHI calf rearing event. Really well structured and presented put together by Grainne O Dwyer.

Was really surprised with the number of beef farmers present, and the event really structured towards getting a calf ready to pass onto the beef lads. Good to see both sectors in the same yard.

What did occur to me was, would we get more bang for our buck if the calf Grant's were aimed solely at the beef lads and would have covered more of the expenditure for them. They would be in a better position to receive calves earlier and would spend more residential time on the beef farm.

Currently it's an investment for a tiny amount of time on a dairy farm, and if calves were to move quickly, most dairy units are already set up to cater for that.

Politicians also there on their first outing of the canvass. Mixed views on the boldness of the visit, but you know, the more they are aware and the more they understand about what we do, the better.

Mightnt be a bad thing to have a politician along to a DG meeting now and again..

Buford T. Justice XIX

The OAD presentations from the conference today is included in the Tweet below.
https://twitter.com/teagasc/status/1217574061250924550?s=19

Panch18

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

The OAD presentations from the conference today is included in the Tweet below.
https://twitter.com/teagasc/status/1217574061250924550?s=19

Anyone on here go?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Panch18 wrote: »

Anyone on here go?

Yeah, I went up for a friend who couldn't make it.

Panch18

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Yeah, I went up for a friend who couldn't make it.

Did it give you something to think about? would you be tempted?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Panch18 wrote: »

Did it give you something to think about? would you be tempted?

I'd be tempted to go that way in a few years but I wouldn't be able to take the 20% plus drop in returns in the first year. The featured couple went from 387 kgs solids sold to 230 kgs sold per cow in the first year and back up to 330 kgs the second year and up to 415 kgs this year.

The calculated breakeven price was around 230kgs solids sold, just to give an insight to the kind of drop to be faced up to first year. That would be lower yields and cows drying themselves off as not suitable for OAD.

The plus would be less milking time, about 66% of the combined morning and evening milking times, better solids and milk price by around 6c/l, better fertility and condition score.

The negatives would be shorter lactation as the lactose would be higher earlier in the lactation. And mastitis tubes would be looking at 7 days milk withdrawl minimum as their prescribed use would be for TAD cows being milked twice a day so their use would be off label and probably need to be tested before going back into the tank.

Panch18

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I'd be tempted to go that way in a few years but I wouldn't be able to take the 20% plus drop in returns in the first year. The featured couple went from 387 kgs solids sold to 230 kgs sold per cow in the first year and back up to 330 kgs the second year and up to 415 kgs this year.

The calculated breakeven price was around 230kgs solids sold, just to give an insight to the kind of drop to be faced up to first year. That would be lower yields and cows drying themselves off as not suitable for OAD.

The plus would be less milking time, about 66% of the combined morning and evening milking times, better solids and milk price by around 6c/l, better fertility and condition score.

The negatives would be shorter lactation as the lactose would be higher earlier in the lactation. And mastitis tubes would be looking at 7 days milk withdrawl minimum as their prescribed use would be for TAD cows being milked twice a day so their use would be off label and probably need to be tested before going back into the tank.

yep its the first year hump, or should i say dip, that i just can't get past

The drop is massive, I haven't worked out how we could afford to take that hit. after a couple years it seems to be fine, from what i have read.

GrasstoMilk

Panch18 wrote: »

yep its the first year hump, or should i say dip, that i just can't get past

The drop is massive, I haven't worked out how we could afford to take that hit. after a couple years it seems to be fine, from what i have read.

50k of an income difference between tad and OAD
That would pay for alot of labour or a big loan on facilities to make your working day easier to stay TAD

Panch18

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

50k of an income difference between tad and OAD
That would pay for alot of labour or a big loan on facilities to make your working day easier to stay TAD

It's your profit basically that's being wiped out - from what i see anyway. And i can't see any way past that in the first year or 2

After year 2 i don't think would be a problem

Like you say easier pay the labour - if you could find it

Buford T. Justice XIX

Panch18 wrote: »

yep its the first year hump, or should i say dip, that i just can't get past

The drop is massive, I haven't worked out how we could afford to take that hit. after a couple years it seems to be fine, from what i have read.

The general consensus seems to be the fourth year is when you're back to your TAD yields. The timing of the conversion is a factor as well.

If you convert to OAD in a good milk price year, the hit on income is fairly bad.

If you do it in a bad milk price year....:eek:

Sacrolyte

Ur f***ed anyway.........

straight

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

The general consensus seems to be the fourth year is when you're back to your TAD yields. The timing of the conversion is a factor as well.

If you convert to OAD in a good milk price year, the hit on income is fairly bad.

If you do it in a bad milk price year....:eek:

But if you stick with TAD your yields should be higher than 4 years previous surely.

Buford T. Justice XIX

straight wrote: »

But if you stick with TAD your yields should be higher than 4 years previous surely.

I was talking to 2 lads on OAD and they both reckoned not. They seem to like the ease of condition going onto cows and staying on cows and the fertility benefits of that.

One lad was dividing up cows and drying early and feeding extra ration to build up condition and found it a lot of extra work every winter on TAD. Now the cows are on silage and straw and calving down in the correct condition with no extra feed. About 200kgs of ration max per lactation was what he was targeting.

The second lad had older housing and was tight on feed space so better condition over the winter was easier to maintain than to put on. He had only one extra group of cows and they were BCS of 4+ so were being slimmed down a bit before calving.

I'm wondering if their tighter calving spread is leading to being able to have a better, more even bunch of calves and hitting target weights easier? And keeping the better cows calves, seeing as the poorer ones would be moving on from drying themselves off. The lady speaking yesterday was saying she saw little difference between the TAD and OAD yields of her better cows. She also doesn't cull heifers on first lactation yields but will on second lactation yields. Her bottom 10 cows had 8 heifers and 2 second lactation cows and both those second lactation cows were going to be sold on this spring.

So maybe pointing towards targeting those better cows for replacements would result in the same outcome? Sexed straws starting a week earlier on those cows and still having 2 rounds of AI to go in calf?

It certainly has me looking at different ways of doing things.

straight

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I was talking to 2 lads on OAD and they both reckoned not. They seem to like the ease of condition going onto cows and staying on cows and the fertility benefits of that.

One lad was dividing up cows and drying early and feeding extra ration to build up condition and found it a lot of extra work every winter on TAD. Now the cows are on silage and straw and calving down in the correct condition with no extra feed. About 200kgs of ration max per lactation was what he was targeting.

The second lad had older housing and was tight on feed space so better condition over the winter was easier to maintain than to put on. He had only one extra group of cows and they were BCS of 4+ so were being slimmed down a bit before calving.

I'm wondering if their tighter calving spread is leading to being able to have a better, more even bunch of calves and hitting target weights easier? And keeping the better cows calves, seeing as the poorer ones would be moving on from drying themselves off. The lady speaking yesterday was saying she saw little difference between the TAD and OAD yields of her better cows. She also doesn't cull heifers on first lactation yields but will on second lactation yields. Her bottom 10 cows had 8 heifers and 2 second lactation cows and both those second lactation cows were going to be sold on this spring.

So maybe pointing towards targeting those better cows for replacements would result in the same outcome? Sexed straws starting a week earlier on those cows and still having 2 rounds of AI to go in calf?

It certainly has me looking at different ways of doing things.

Grass tetany can be a big problem with OAD. Great cull cow prices though. It's down to personal choice but I'm afraid you're not going to get rich on either system.

Buford T. Justice XIX

straight wrote: »

Grass tetany can be a big problem with OAD. Great cull cow prices though. It's down to personal choice but I'm afraid you're not going to get rich on either system.

Cull prices are good alright. The couple on yesterday were extending the breeding season for another few weeks and selling the late calving cows as springers rather than as culls. Always someone buying late calvers to run on with some winter milkers, she was saying.

They are taking care of the grass tetany with magnesium through the water system and seem happy with it.

If we wanted to get rich, we'd be at some other business rather then this one:pac:

Castlekeeper

On OAD, one way to lessen the impact is to breed for it a few years in advance. A lot of people milk OAD for a month at the start and/or for the last 2-3 months of lactation, fir labour and lifestyle reasons, at a very low financial cost. Watching the yields of cows in those periods will give you a good idea of the individual cows and also the type/breeding of cows that suit the system. Then by talking to people with OAD herds, use bulls that are proven to work on OAD systems on those cows for your replacements.
This is a win won situation as the best OAD cows are usually the best TAD cows too, less so in the opposite direction. Unfortunately personal experience is the only way to develop a good herd of OAD cows, despite what the experts theorise, current indexes are only unreliable indicators of bull suitability. You could be a long way towards a suitable herd in a few years.
The other factors that lead to the recovery in yield can't really be shortcutted.
Higher fertility leads to more compact calving and more days in milk.
Increased BCS usually leads to better herd performance from lact 2 on.
Less culling for infertility leads to a more mature herd and lower number of replacement heifers which increases herd yield.
Lower COP and higher herd health and cull cow and calf prices (more beef) can all help.

On the issue of mastitis tubes, it's usually dealt with in the withdrawal times of dry cow tubes i.e.
I'm open to correction but I've never heard of a problem with lactating tubes based on using the regular withdrawal hours.

Castlekeeper

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

The general consensus seems to be the fourth year is when you're back to your TAD yields. The timing of the conversion is a factor as well.

If you convert to OAD in a good milk price year, the hit on income is fairly bad.

If you do it in a bad milk price year....:eek:

Another way of looking at it is that you'd have less to lose in a bad milk price year, go away and get a part time job and you'd be better off!

raindodger

went as well its not a one size fits all operation.
very much depends on things like debt levels and life style choice
surprised by the amount of younger farmers there
Also very much in favor of cluster flush system as any one put one in recently and how much a unit do they cost

Pinsnbushings

Went oad last year with our small herd.. Had about 15% cows which definitely lessened the impact.. Dried off a good bit earlier this year which meant November cheque was small.. Year end solids was almost identical as previous year twice a day.. We did feed calves replacer last year instead of milk the previous year which would need to be accounted for..
Was speaking to man today and came up in conversation that we switched to oad, said there were 6 or 7 in his area at it too, these would be older farmers in general not involved in discussion groups or anything so could be a lot more common than teagasc even realise.

Panch18

Castlekeeper wrote: »

On OAD, one way to lessen the impact is to breed for it a few years in advance. A lot of people milk OAD for a month at the start and/or for the last 2-3 months of lactation, fir labour and lifestyle reasons, at a very low financial cost. Watching the yields of cows in those periods will give you a good idea of the individual cows and also the type/breeding of cows that suit the system. Then by talking to people with OAD herds, use bulls that are proven to work on OAD systems on those cows for your replacements.
This is a win won situation as the best OAD cows are usually the best TAD cows too, less so in the opposite direction. Unfortunately personal experience is the only way to develop a good herd of OAD cows, despite what the experts theorise, current indexes are only unreliable indicators of bull suitability. You could be a long way towards a suitable herd in a few years.
The other factors that lead to the recovery in yield can't really be shortcutted.
Higher fertility leads to more compact calving and more days in milk.
Increased BCS usually leads to better herd performance from lact 2 on.
Less culling for infertility leads to a more mature herd and lower number of replacement heifers which increases herd yield.
Lower COP and higher herd health and cull cow and calf prices (more beef) can all help.

On the issue of mastitis tubes, it's usually dealt with in the withdrawal times of dry cow tubes i.e.
I'm open to correction but I've never heard of a problem with lactating tubes based on using the regular withdrawal hours.

Super stuff

Do you mind me asking keeper what is your cow type and do you find the breeding going in a certain direction? ie towards jersey

hildywildy

I was at the conference, it was pretty relevant to me as I'm starting to calf heifers in two weeks and plan to go oad.
I only have a small herd and am transitioning from beef.

I have done the maths, milking 100% heifers twice a dayit wouldn't pay me, get a man to do all the evening milkings, especially when you include extra, meal etc.

I will be OAD milking this year regardless, as i am working off farm. Next year i'm not so sure as my work contract finishes in December 20.

OAD will not suit everyone, but it has to be a lot better than losing your hole on beef.

Mooooo

What tad figures were they comparing to? The average supplied I saw in glanbia is 385kgs? That's very low. I supplied 470 or so with a young herd. Discussion group average is at 520. I'd be thinking 500kgs should be well achievable on tad and that should be the figure to compare to. Is 400kgs the target for oad? At 4 euro a kg that would be 400 euro a cow difference. Even saying 800kgs extra ration at 290/t that's 232 a cow, which may be excessive, so 168 a cow or 16800 for a 100 cow herd to cover the extra 1.5 hours in the evening milking

kevthegaff

Mooooo wrote: »

What tad figures were they comparing to? The average supplied I saw in glanbia is 385kgs? That's very low. I supplied 470 or so with a young herd. Discussion group average is at 520. I'd be thinking 500kgs should be well achievable on tad and that should be the figure to compare to. Is 400kgs the target for oad? At 4 euro a kg that would be 400 euro a cow difference. Even saying 800kgs extra ration at 290/t that's 232 a cow, which may be excessive, so 168 a cow or 16800 for a 100 cow herd to cover the extra 1.5 hours in the evening milking

Body condition, lameness, l
Better health I'd imagine would bring down the difference, would u hold 10%extra oad on the same milking block?

Grueller

I have a first cousin that has two blocks of land and is going to put up a second very basic parlour on the out block, 80 acres or so. He is then going once a day and going to milk in one parlour in the morning and one in the evening.
He will keep all housing at home and close down the outside parlour earlier and open it up later. I think it is an expensive way to be a busy fool. Opinions?

Panch18

Grueller wrote: »

I have a first cousin that has two blocks of land and is going to put up a second very basic parlour on the out block, 80 acres or so. He is then going once a day and going to milk in one parlour in the morning and one in the evening.
He will keep all housing at home and close down the outside parlour earlier and open it up later. I think it is an expensive way to be a busy fool. Opinions?

If he is organised and doesn't have have too many other things to do (such as cattle) then i wonder will he be any busier than he is now?