Dairy Chitchat 3

Tonynewholland

Panch18 wrote: »

Crap milk price
Crap beef price
Crap calf price
Crap grain price
Cuts to BPS but no cuts to BS rules
Cuts to stocking rates
increased slurry storage requirements
reduced slurry spreading dates

Is there even a glimmer of hope on the horizon for anybody in farming

No mention of brexit in there. It could get messy

K.G.

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

They're clamping down on derogations while seeming to support them.

And, like you say there, it probably won't stay at 90kgs for too long once the precedent is established.

I m thinking the next logical step for most lads is a tie up with a tillage guy to supply winter feed or at least replace some of mill bought stuff.similar arrangements as the pig men have

Buford T. Justice XIX

K.G. wrote: »

I m thinking the next logical step for most lads is a tie up with a tillage guy to supply winter feed or at least replace some of mill bought stuff.similar arrangements as the pig men have

Could happen. I don't think the current individual independent farms will be very common in future. Some form of collaboration will be a lot more common than it is now.

Maybe something like 2 or 3 farms in a partnership or profit sharing with different farms managing cows, replacements and fodder and supplying casual labour to the others at busy times.

straight

Tonynewholland wrote: »

No mention of brexit in there. It could get messy

Mary Lou and her gang of head bangers are going to sort that out...

K.G.

Panch18 wrote: »

Crap milk price
Crap beef price
Crap calf price
Crap grain price
Cuts to BPS but no cuts to BS rules
Cuts to stocking rates
increased slurry storage requirements
reduced slurry spreading dates

Is there even a glimmer of hope on the horizon for anybody in farming

We are competitive at the moment with anyone else inthe world fir producing milk.the dairy industry in alot of other countries is struggling at the minute due primarily to borrowing .our adoption of grass based production and our system of passing farms from one generation to the next has allowed us to be competitive. If however we move to a system of employed labour and high bought in feed we would quicky get sucked back into the pack.there is also a danger of dairy farmers being used for social engineering in rural areas.

thisyear

Looking for a bit of advice. sales rep is calling tomorrow about breeding. Wondering should I consider going back to DIY(current parttime relief is ex tech) or is it just going to cost me in long run. Tended to do about 5weeks AI then out with the bulls. Just wondering what everyone is paying for AI?

Mooooo

K.G. wrote: »

We are competitive at the moment with anyone else inthe world fir producing milk.the dairy industry in alot of other countries is struggling at the minute due primarily to borrowing .our adoption of grass based production and our system of passing farms from one generation to the next has allowed us to be competitive. If however we move to a system of employed labour and high bought in feed we would quicky get sucked back into the pack.there is also a danger of dairy farmers being used for social engineering in rural areas.

Is it realistic for a farmers to be competitive without borrowing going forward?. The days of their being bodies around to do building etc is gone as well as family members working for little or no financial recompense other than the roof over their head. Regulations etc are all increasing costs.

straight

K.G. wrote: »

We are competitive at the moment with anyone else inthe world fir producing milk.the dairy industry in alot of other countries is struggling at the minute due primarily to borrowing .our adoption of grass based production and our system of passing farms from one generation to the next has allowed us to be competitive. If however we move to a system of employed labour and high bought in feed we would quicky get sucked back into the pack.there is also a danger of dairy farmers being used for social engineering in rural areas.

God forbid the dairy farmer himself would get paid a fair wage.

K.G.

Mooooo wrote: »

Is it realistic for a farmers to be competitive without borrowing going forward?. The days of their being bodies around to do building etc is gone as well as family members working for little or no financial recompense other than the roof over their head. Regulations etc are all increasing costs.

When i say borrowing i mean how many dairy farms could sustain the repayments to buy themselves as happens in alot of other countries .we all.have some bit of borrowings but places where that hits 4 or 5 grand a cow are scarce nevermind 20+ which isnt out of the way in lot of countries.regs are in most countries

K.G.

straight wrote: »

God forbid the dairy farmer himself would get paid a fair wage.

There is a danger that dairy lads will become the money source for both tillage and beef farmers in that area.

jaymla627

K.G. wrote: »

When i say borrowing i mean how many dairy farms could sustain the repayments to buy themselves as happens in alot of other countries .we all.have some bit of borrowings but places where that hits 4 or 5 grand a cow are scarce nevermind 20+ which isnt out of the way in lot of countries.regs are in most countries

I reckon their is alot more units that are gone over 4k a cow In Ireland then you'd think, their is a savage amount of parlours gone in the last few years that would be coming to over 2k a cow nevermind the extra slurry storage/cubicles needed on top of this, once you go tams and building contractors the costs sky rocket even taking account of the grant

straight

K.G. wrote: »

There is a danger that dairy lads will become the money source for both tillage and beef farmers in that area.

That's the way I see it going. Everybody living off the dairy farmers back but they all get their days off, etc.

K.G.

jaymla627 wrote: »

I reckon their is alot more units that are gone over 4k a cow In Ireland then you'd think, their is a savage amount of parlours gone in the last few years that would be coming to over 2k a cow nevermind the extra slurry storage/cubicles needed on top of this, once you go tams and building contractors the costs sky rocket even taking account of the grant

Even at 4k a cow over a mixture of 10 and 20 year loans could be 400 e a year in repayment s.put it another way 40 k for a 100 cows.

jaymla627

straight wrote: »

That's the way I see it going. Everybody living off the dairy farmers back but they all get their days off, etc.

Plenty of the above going dairying aswell to be fair, the smart lads are renting our contracting rearing to dairy farmers, cant begrudge a lad making a handy few pound if its their to be made

straight

jaymla627 wrote: »

Plenty of the above going dairying aswell to be fair, the smart lads are renting our contracting rearing to dairy farmers, cant begrudge a lad making a handy few pound if its their to be made

Ya everyone has to live but I'm just trying to mind my own little corner. Had a bad year or two with contractors letting me down but still no bother in charging top price and whinging to me about the price of diesel, repayments, etc. I'll be doing more DIY here if I can.

jaymla627

straight wrote: »

Ya everyone has to live but I'm just trying to mind my own little corner. Had a bad year or two with contractors letting me down but still no bother in charging top price and whinging to me about the price of diesel, repayments, etc. I'll be doing more DIY here if I can.

Got my fill of relying solely on contractors here two years ago, just hire in a lad to rake and pick silage with wagon now who's very reliable, some comfort not to be having to be begging to get work done like slurry our silage mowed when you need it done

Reggie.

jaymla627 wrote: »

Got my fill of relying solely on contractors here two years ago, just hire in a lad to rake and pick silage with wagon now who's very reliable, some comfort not to be having to be begging to get work done like slurry our silage mowed when you need it done

You obviously never used me

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

You obviously never used me

Are you busy at the moment?

straight

Teagasc recommend calves should drop by 70 to 80 euro per head this year. Teagasc fee is increasing though. Some joke.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/teagasc-green-acres-calf-to-beef-programme-year-1-eprofit-monitor-results/

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

Are you busy at the moment?

Nah quiet now sure ya couldn't travel with tankers out there. Was busy upto the start of these storms.

Good bit of reseeding on alright for when it dries in june or whatever
Have to repair abit of my own reseed from last year aswell

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

Nah quiet now sure ya couldn't travel with tankers out there. Was busy upto the start of these storms.

Good bit of reseeding on alright for when it dries in june or whatever
Have to repair abit of my own reseed from last year aswell

We were milk recording this morning. I was saying next time she comes in 6 weeks the cows should be out . Snow showers here now

wrangler

straight wrote: »

Teagasc recommend calves should drop by 70 to 80 euro per head this year. Teagasc fee is increasing though. Some joke.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/teagasc-green-acres-calf-to-beef-programme-year-1-eprofit-monitor-results/

for beef farmers, calf prices need to reduce is just stating facts.

atlantic mist

why does dairy calf price need to reduce,
plenty of expense between when purchased as a calf to finish, how have they been skimped over

the amount of turns the friesian calf does in it life is amazing for an animal that leaves no money.. life cycle of the calf....dairy farmer calf rearing, transporter, mart fees, transporter, calf-beef farmer, transporter, mart fees, transporter, finisher beef farmer, transporter, factory, transporter, to the supermarket shelf


teagasc need to get their head of their arse if they are spouting nonsense that you need to get the calf for free, close to 80 euro profit out of ever ton of meal bought from mill, government tariff on fertiliser, diesel, never hear teagasc saying any of these costs need to be reduced

kevthegaff

I had them on done deal and got no call, 50 euros for pick of the fresians here 2-3weeks old 100 for angus

Gawddawggonnit

K.G. wrote: »

We are competitive at the moment with anyone else inthe world fir producing milk.the dairy industry in alot of other countries is struggling at the minute due primarily to borrowing .our adoption of grass based production and our system of passing farms from one generation to the next has allowed us to be competitive. If however we move to a system of employed labour and high bought in feed we would quicky get sucked back into the pack.there is also a danger of dairy farmers being used for social engineering in rural areas.

??

Gawddawggonnit

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Maybe something like 2 or 3 farms in a partnership or profit sharing with different farms managing cows, replacements and fodder and supplying casual labour to the others at busy times.

Recipe for disaster, or for lining the pockets of the legal system.
The GAEC system here has proven that beyond any doubt.

I would argue that the independent farms will always be there only much larger, and *MIXED* production. There I’ve said it!!

‘A cow, a sow, and an acre under plough’

straight

wrangler wrote: »

for beef farmers, calf prices need to reduce is just stating facts.

Why can't the price of beef increase. Or why can't the other inputs be given for nothing?

straight

kevthegaff wrote: »

I had them on done deal and got no call, 50 euros for pick of the fresians here 2-3weeks old 100 for angus

They will give you 500 for the friesians at 12 months then. Madness.

straight

atlantic mist wrote: »

why does dairy calf price need to reduce,
plenty of expense between when purchased as a calf to finish, how have they been skimped over

the amount of turns the friesian calf does in it life is amazing for an animal that leaves no money.. life cycle of the calf....dairy farmer calf rearing, transporter, mart fees, transporter, calf-beef farmer, transporter, mart fees, transporter, finisher beef farmer, transporter, factory, transporter, to the supermarket shelf


teagasc need to get their head of their arse if they are spouting nonsense that you need to get the calf for free, close to 80 euro profit out of ever ton of meal bought from mill, government tariff on fertiliser, diesel, never hear teagasc saying any of these costs need to be reduced

Don't forget tags and Bvd test, Ai straws, ai tech.

whelan2

Was in local mart the other day. Strong friesian bulls 2 months old to 250 euro. Angus same age to 310. Wtf.

K.G.

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Recipe for disaster, or for lining the pockets of the legal system.
The GAEC system here has proven that beyond any doubt.

I would argue that the independent farms will always be there only much larger, and *MIXED* production. There I’ve said it!!

‘A cow, a sow, and an acre under plough’

In the course of another thread you mentioned the "efficiency of home produced feeds".i cant get my head around this idea of home produced feeds being efficient
Yeah in theory yes but in practice you setting up very small scale units to handle the different enterprise s.small scale inefficent machinery and structure s for handling it.nevermind the extra management involved.dont worry in my case it wasnt for the want of trying but farming land where there isnt a field where you can sink a plough without meeting rock the grass trumps it in terms of profit workload and suitability to the area.

Buford T. Justice XIX

A nice simple idea for washing calf feeding equipment, an ibc filled with water and 1% peracetic acid.
https://twitter.com/cowsolutions/status/1230389989739057152?s=19

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

for beef farmers, calf prices need to reduce is just stating facts.

Maybe beef price needs to increase?

alps

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

A nice simple idea for washing calf feeding equipment, an ibc filled with water and 1% peracetic acid.
https://twitter.com/cowsolutions/status/1230389989739057152?s=19

That's 10 litres of paracetic acid per IBC...you'd want to be getting a lot of rinses out of that. Wonder how often the solution need to be replaced?

simx

Anyone have a ballpark figure on how much we’ll bred enough Fr heifer calves are worth? 2-3wks old

straight

alps wrote: »

That's 10 litres of paracetic acid per IBC...you'd want to be getting a lot of rinses out of that. Wonder how often the solution need to be replaced?

That paracetic acid is hard **** on the lungs. They spray that **** on fruit. Wouldn't like to be near it every day.

Gawddawggonnit

K.G. wrote: »

In the course of another thread you mentioned the "efficiency of home produced feeds".i cant get my head around this idea of home produced feeds being efficient
Yeah in theory yes but in practice you setting up very small scale units to handle the different enterprise s.small scale inefficent machinery and structure s for handling it.nevermind the extra management involved.dont worry in my case it wasnt for the want of trying but farming land where there isnt a field where you can sink a plough without meeting rock the grass trumps it in terms of profit workload and suitability to the area.

I’m making the assumption that producing all my feed and fodder on farm is more sustainable than dragging gmo grains from half way around the globe.
Am I missing something about gmo grains from the Americas??
Muck from the animals has allowed me to just about reduce imported N to almost nothing...46u/ac per year. No purchased P & K. whatsoever.
My system is a closed loop. Animal production supports feed production, and visa versa, iykwim.


Don’t believe everything you see in the Bord Bia ads, it may not be true...

Gawddawggonnit

K.G. wrote: »

There is a danger that dairy lads will become the money source for both tillage and beef farmers in that area.

Explain please.

It has been quite the opposite until lately that tillage and beef farmers were there to support the dairy man.
The tillage man was supposed to supply straw (God forbid that you’d buy feed from him because imported crap is so much better), at below the cost of production.
Likewise the beef man is supposed to take your calves, no matter what kind of quality, at a highly inflated price.

Sooner or later you reap what you sow. When something becomes unsustainable it eventually comes to a halt.

K.G.

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I’m making the assumption that producing all my feed and fodder on farm is more sustainable than dragging gmo grains from half way around the globe.
Am I missing something about gmo grains from the Americas??
Muck from the animals has allowed me to just about reduce imported N to almost nothing...46u/ac per year. No purchased P & K. whatsoever.
My system is a closed loop. Animal production supports feed production, and visa versa, iykwim.


Don’t believe everything you see in the Bord Bia ads, it may not be true...

And at that system whats your breakeven price for production?.are you dependant on a seeming limitless supply of land at near zero value.my take would be that tillage farms would concentrate on growing feed and dairy farms would concentrate on minding and milking the cows rather than 2 lads having a little of both and doing with employed labour.as i aluded to i see this replacing bought/imported feed.

K.G.

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Explain please.

It has been quite the opposite until lately that tillage and beef farmers were there to support the dairy man.
The tillage man was supposed to supply straw (God forbid that you’d buy feed from him because imported crap is so much better), at below the cost of production.
Likewise the beef man is supposed to take your calves, no matter what kind of quality, at a highly inflated price.

Sooner or later you reap what you sow. When something becomes unsustainable it eventually comes to a halt.

Right now neither irish beef or tillage farmers can compete on the world stage.am i right in saying that or at.least i couldnt produce beef or grains at market prices.currently we are being told that dairy lads should give calves for free or give money with them to sustain beef production from those animals. Probably is the case so is that beef farmer dependent on the dairy farmer to make his sums add up.then you have alot of drystock farmers engaged with dairy farmers to contract rear the heifers.so obviously enough the contract rearer is dependent on the dairy farmer.and then on to tillage.given the way nitrates are heading it could be the case that you would see dairy lads renting on paper land the same as you have in pigs.my point is that the dairy business could be supporting other farmers in much the same way as quota allowed the transfer of money from dairy farms to other farms and it all adds up.maybe i wrong but i m just looking at the system as i see it.

Buford T. Justice XIX

alps wrote: »

That's 10 litres of paracetic acid per IBC...you'd want to be getting a lot of rinses out of that. Wonder how often the solution need to be replaced?

Every couple of days, iirc. When the water starts getting a bit unclean looking, I think. The feeders are washed well before going into the IBC so it could take a good few days before it's replaced especially with small numbers of feeders.

jaymla627

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Every couple of days, iirc. When the water starts getting a bit unclean looking, I think. The feeders are washed well before going into the IBC so it could take a good few days before it's replaced especially with small numbers of feeders.

Peracetc when addd to water only has a shelf life of 24 hours then it's totally dissolved and evaporated

Mooooo

Breaks down to hydrogen peroxide and vinegar and then to water oxygen and carbon dioxide. It a half strength after 24 hrs so supposed to be prepared as it's used

Timmaay

Nice lovely sand bank with plenty grass on it the other side, well worth the damage which will be gone by may.

alps

How would sodium hydrochlorite do in the IBC for sterilising?

Mooooo

https://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-sodium-hypochlorite.htm

You can buy gallon drums of Milton at the coop dunno how much they are.

Base price

Mooooo wrote: »

https://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-sodium-hypochlorite.htm

You can buy gallon drums of Milton at the coop dunno how much they are.

I've been using Steri 7 Xtra for the last few years but is isn't cheap at c.€60 per gallon. Mixing rate is 1:50 and it is food safe so there is no smell or taint. I wash the teat feeders after every use in warm water with a squirt of washing up liquid, draw the liquid through the teats and rinse out. After night feeding I fill a clean 12ltr bucket with water add the Setri 7 Xtra and divide it between the 2 or 3 teat feeders depending on how many calves I'm rearing. There is enough solution to cover the teat outlets. I use a clean sponge to wipe around the inside of the feeder and draw some of the solution through the teats whilst rubbing it on the outside of them. That system has worked well for me over the years but it does take an extra 15/20mins every night.

Sacrolyte

The wimen are great for the cleaning. I do mine once a week. Helps build up natural resistance like.

I’ll Just leave that here and run now...............

K.G.

Base price wrote: »

I've been using Steri 7 Xtra for the last few years but is isn't cheap at c.€60 per gallon. Mixing rate is 1:50 and it is food safe so there is no smell or taint. I wash the teat feeders after every use in warm water with a squirt of washing up liquid, draw the liquid through the teats and rinse out. After night feeding I fill a clean 12ltr bucket with water add the Setri 7 Xtra and divide it between the 2 or 3 teat feeders depending on how many calves I'm rearing. There is enough solution to cover the teat outlets. I use a clean sponge to wipe around the inside of the feeder and draw some of the solution through the teats whilst rubbing it on the outside of them. That system has worked well for me over the years but it does take an extra 15/20mins every night.

Would you go out on hire.that treatment once a week would do mine.i find hot water great myself but

Base price

K.G. wrote: »

Would you go out on hire.that treatment once a week would do mine.i find hot water great myself but

Hot water is fine but you also need a detergent to clean the fat solids from the surface of the teat feeders/cmr mixer/buckets as that is where the bacteria grows if given the opportunity.