Dairy Chitchat 3

Buford T. Justice XIX

Latest notes from Lyons.
https://twitter.com/ucdagfood/status/1241040002970198017?s=19

Injuryprone

My Teagasc advisor was telling me the other day that they are going to be screwed with that environmental course. It's something like 15 hours in class (3*5hrs) with a max number per class. So when they divided up all the derogation farmers on the books, the calendar quickly goes beyond the end of next year. On the plus side, the p-buildup course they did a couple of years ago will still count for this.

The clover thing really annoys me. A good portion of my land that's fairly wet, you wouldn't dream of putting clover in nor would it last any time if I did. These guys are living in their own little world

blue5000

Injuryprone wrote: »

My Teagasc advisor was telling me the other day that they are going to be screwed with that environmental course. It's something like 15 hours in class (3*5hrs) with a max number per class. So when they divided up all the derogation farmers on the books, the calendar quickly goes beyond the end of next year. On the plus side, the p-buildup course they did a couple of years ago will still count for this.

The clover thing really annoys me. A good portion of my land that's fairly wet, you wouldn't dream of putting clover in nor would it last any time if I did. These guys are living in their own little world

Teagasc Solohead farm is a wet farm and clover does well. It has been drained well and because the place was used for dumping dairy sludge for years P levels are off the scale. pH is important too.

Reggie.

Injuryprone wrote: »

My Teagasc advisor was telling me the other day that they are going to be screwed with that environmental course. It's something like 15 hours in class (3*5hrs) with a max number per class. So when they divided up all the derogation farmers on the books, the calendar quickly goes beyond the end of next year. On the plus side, the p-buildup course they did a couple of years ago will still count for this.

The clover thing really annoys me. A good portion of my land that's fairly wet, you wouldn't dream of putting clover in nor would it last any time if I did. These guys are living in their own little world

Also the rate is very high at 5kg per hectare. Dangerous levels there for bloat

visatorro

Reggie. wrote:

Also the rate is very high at 5kg per hectare. Dangerous levels there for bloat

Big operator I'm aware of doesn't mind losing a few to bloat every year because he's saving so much on nitrogen

Buford T. Justice XIX

Reggie. wrote: »

Also the rate is very high at 5kg per hectare. Dangerous levels there for bloat

They're now saying strip fencing off a section at the front of the paddock to force the cows to eat the grass as well without just eating the clover alone sorts out most of those problems. Can't say I've done it myself as I'll probably avoid reseeding much this year.

Millionaire only not

Clover is all fine until u just short of grass and u have to go with nitrogen to drive grass because ur short , all ur work in vain kills the bloody thing ! Had it 15 years ago, fine if your system is not under pressure .
And it’s only suitable for dry ground waste of money on wet it only thrives on dry ground spreads out takes over .

Water John

It seems that leaving stock into hungry is a major part of the problem. They eat too much of it. Also if you have clover in every field, the stock are more used to it.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Water John wrote: »

It seems that leaving stock into hungry is a major part of the problem. They eat too much of it. Also if you have clover in every field, the stock are more used to it.

And roughly a 5 year cycle so you'll have to reseed a bit again every year to keep it in the sward.

We may as well figure out how to work with it as it looks like it will have to supply a big chunk of our N requirement in the next few years.

Water John

The persistence of red clover is about 4 years, white clover would be longer I think. You might get more than 5. I'm cutting red clover silage for the first time this year. Mowing 4 times and baling is the aim. Supposed to be mighty stuff.
The downside no doubt for intensive dairying is lower stocking.

Reggie.

Water John wrote: »

The persistence of red clover is about 4 years, white clover would be longer I think. You might get more than 5. I'm cutting red clover silage for the first time this year. Mowing 4 times and baling is the aim. Supposed to be mighty stuff.
The downside no doubt for intensive dairying is lower stocking.

Hard to stitch in red clover tho

Water John

Yeah oversowed growing oats with multi species grass/clover mix. Dairy farmers would possibly use a combi crop.

Gillespy

Was at Solohead maybe 15 years ago and was blown away with the clover/grass they had. Spend the next few years trying to recreate it at home but never really could get it to last. Stocked too high and too much N. Don't bother now.

Red clover/hybrid silage mix is appealing. Might trial some this spring.

Water John

You could sow with oats and vetches. Cut this and crimp. Great cheap feed concentrate, put some into the forage wagon.

alps

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

And roughly a 5 year cycle so you'll have to reseed a bit again every year to keep it in the sward.

We may as well figure out how to work with it as it looks like it will have to supply a big chunk of our N requirement in the next few years.

There's nothing in the regulation that you have to keep it in the sward...it only says that you have to use it when reseeding...

On it's own after that

Birdnuts

Injuryprone wrote: »

My Teagasc advisor was telling me the other day that they are going to be screwed with that environmental course. It's something like 15 hours in class (3*5hrs) with a max number per class. So when they divided up all the derogation farmers on the books, the calendar quickly goes beyond the end of next year. On the plus side, the p-buildup course they did a couple of years ago will still count for this.

The clover thing really annoys me. A good portion of my land that's fairly wet, you wouldn't dream of putting clover in nor would it last any time if I did. These guys are living in their own little world

There are other options like Greater Birdsfoot Trefoil that thrives on heavier wetter ground

Gillespy

Water John wrote: »

You could sow with oats and vetches. Cut this and crimp. Great cheap feed concentrate, put some into the forage wagon.

Done that a good few times. Agritech sell a mix called 'Forage Extra'. Did it with barley. Baled it and fed early before rats found it.

Problem is you're left hybrid/Italian type grass. And it's very weather dependent. A delay in cutting and all you have is stem.

Water John

You can sow any grass clover mix oversowing it. Yeah ended up this year having to bale my oats and grass clover. Mine was set too late. I'd be saying harvest and crimp the seed and use as a concentrate. You have concentrate feed for under €160. Graze the grass clover with light stock after cutting the grain.

cjpm

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

And roughly a 5 year cycle so you'll have to reseed a bit again every year to keep it in the sward.

We may as well figure out how to work with it as it looks like it will have to supply a big chunk of our N requirement in the next few years.

I’ve heard that the only clover safe undersown spray for new grass swards has been banned. The clover won’t be lasting long if that’s the case!

Reggie.

cjpm wrote: »

I’ve heard that the only clover safe undersown spray for new grass swards has been banned. The clover won’t be lasting long if that’s the case!

Yeah that's true. The active ingredient is banned from 2021. You'll have to stitch it in after post emergence spray

CloughCasey1

Reggie. wrote: »

Yeah that's true. The active ingredient is banned from 2021. You'll have to stitch it in after post emergence spray

Lost heavy covers of clover in two reseeds as docks were getting out of control. Ya cant drive it on for the summer when ya stitch the clover. No N allowed after as grass will smother the new seed. Production lost for rest of year.

Reggie.

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Lost heavy covers of clover in two reseeds as docks were getting out of control. Ya cant drive it on for the summer when ya stitch the clover. No N allowed after as grass will smother the new seed. Production lost for rest of year.

That's why you stitch it in the autumn and let it establish over the winter and early spring

K.G.

The work in darrara seems to suggest that you make more bales to allow for the reduction ingrowth on the shoulders with clover and it s important to keep covers down during the main grazing season so sweeping out covers quick rather than bulk silage cutting

Mooooo

Clover on any way wet ground means cow's in for longer in the shoulder. Is keeping them in not worse environmentally ? It's a bollox tbh

Reggie.

K.G. wrote: »

The work in darrara seems to suggest that you make more bales to allow for the reduction ingrowth on the shoulders with clover and it s important to keep covers down during the main grazing season so sweeping out covers quick rather than bulk silage cutting

Clover should be safe once ya dont let the covers get over 1000

Water John

No doubt it is much trickier to manage than single species grass and N bag. But it's the way it will go and we'll have to learn how to do it.

Castlekeeper

blue5000 wrote: »

Teagasc Solohead farm is a wet farm and clover does well. It has been drained well and because the place was used for dumping dairy sludge for years P levels are off the scale. pH is important too.

Solohead might be heavy compared to neighbouring limestone country but it's far from wet land.

GrasstoMilk

Gillespy wrote: »

Was at Solohead maybe 15 years ago and was blown away with the clover/grass they had. Spend the next few years trying to recreate it at home but never really could get it to last. Stocked too high and too much N. Don't bother now.

Red clover/hybrid silage mix is appealing. Might trial some this spring.

Dont bother with the hybrid. Put in a good perennial mix and you'll have a good field of grass long after the red clover dies out.
Too short of a life span on hybrids and they can go to stem very quickly in a day or 2 if you get delayed cutting. You have a much wider cutting window with perennial if you get delayed cutting

alps

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Dont bother with the hybrid. Put in a good perennial mix and you'll have a good field of grass long after the red clover dies out.
Too short of a life span on hybrids and they can go to stem very quickly in a day or 2 if you get delayed cutting. You have a much wider cutting window with perennial if you get delayed cutting

+1

Gillespy

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Dont bother with the hybrid. Put in a good perennial mix and you'll have a good field of grass long after the red clover dies out.
Too short of a life span on hybrids and they can go to stem very quickly in a day or 2 if you get delayed cutting. You have a much wider cutting window with perennial if you get delayed cutting

100% on the hybrids. I don't think there all that in yield either. Tall but every open. Nothing in the bottom.

The red clover mixes I see all come with them. Would the red clover occupy that space and maintain quality if delayed cutting?

GrasstoMilk

Gillespy wrote: »

100% on the hybrids. I don't think there all that in yield either. Tall but every open. Nothing in the bottom.

The red clover mixes I see all come with them. Would the red clover occupy that space and maintain quality if delayed cutting?

Hard to know really. Red clover can loose its quality too if it blooms.
I'd say if you got onto germinal they would do a mix for you.
You could go 100% redclover either?

Water John

BTW if you cut the red clover low, it won't regrow.

whelan2

Can you still leave out individual samples for the glanbia milk man to bring with him?

visatorro

whelan2 wrote:

Can you still leave out individual samples for the glanbia milk man to bring with him?

Afaik the driver will take individual samples for scc or antibiotics. Scc gets sent to dungarven I think.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Now might be a good time to sort out a Standard Operating Procedure for your parlour?
https://twitter.com/MarkOSulliva/status/1242159883639799808?s=19

raindodger

have around seven acres which got reseeded last sept failed to get it grazed or sprayed what would be the best spray for this or should i try and graze first

alps

Gillespy wrote: »

100% on the hybrids. I don't think there all that in yield either. Tall but every open. Nothing in the bottom.

The red clover mixes I see all come with them. Would the red clover occupy that space and maintain quality if delayed cutting?

Clover failed in ours so stitched in clover again the following summer. It came the next time.

It's a marvellous looking field of grass but DM yield is very poor. You'll have a heap of ZG loads from it of very low DM grass, or quiet an average cut of wilted pit silage and it's never ready for gutting or grazing with any comrade fields on the farm..

Planning to take it out and go a grazing mix..

mahoney_j

alps wrote: »

Clover failed in ours so stitched in clover again the following summer. It came the next time.

It's a marvellous looking field of grass but DM yield is very poor. You'll have a heap of ZG loads from it of very low DM grass, or quiet an average cut of wilted pit silage and it's never ready for gutting or grazing with any comrade fields on the farm..

Planning to take it out and go a grazing mix..

Ive a hybrid mix with red clover 4/6 cuts for bales and z graze spring and October .changing plans now 13 acres of maize going in instead sick of giving the summer mowing ,tedding ,drawing and stacking bales and feeding them out during winter

jd_12345

I see the new EBI evaluations are out. No massive moves. Fr4728 is on top of the pile for the time being anyway. Fr4573 continues to jump.

On a similar note, does anyone know who ‘Sire Sense’ are. They have a nice enough bull -Fr6097. I see this bull is distributed through CRV in the Netherlands and usually Munster and PG have the CRV bulls. I’ve messaged them but they haven’t replied. Any ideas?
They do have him

Sacrolyte

Could I claim the maps on a local football field if I cut a bit of silage off it or grazed it with a few calves. Or would I want to be guaranteed it for the full year.
Different times lads.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Sacrolyte wrote: »

Could I claim the maps on a local football field if I cut a bit of silage off it or grazed it with a few calves. Or would I want to be guaranteed it for the full year.
Different times lads.

If you're around Mid Kerry, they don't even need a football to play football never mind a football field:D

whelan2

Anyone got milking gloves recently, seems they are hard to get

DukeCaboom

jd_12345 wrote: »

I see the new EBI evaluations are out. No massive moves. Fr4728 is on top of the pile for the time being anyway. Fr4573 continues to jump.

On a similar note, does anyone know who ‘Sire Sense’ are. They have a nice enough bull -Fr6097. I see this bull is distributed through CRV in the Netherlands and usually Munster and PG have the CRV bulls. I’ve messaged them but they haven’t replied. Any ideas?
They do have him

Ordered my straws last week. Ai man said hold off but i took a chance. Two main bulls i ordered didn't move much so i was lucky.

Some sickener when a bull falls a good drop.

straight

Do many of you use vecoxan or similar for your calves. I haven't been using it but I get a few calves with scour at turnout. I'm considering giving it to them this year.

Reggie.

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Ordered my straws last week. Ai man said hold off but i took a chance. Two main bulls i ordered didn't move much so i was lucky.

Some sickener when a bull falls a good drop.

Some Ai lads around here are pushing sales as they claim they might be off the road shortly

Dakota Dan

whelan2 wrote: »

Anyone got milking gloves recently, seems they are hard to get

Plenty in Dairygold

Dakota Dan

whelan2 wrote: »

Anyone got milking gloves recently, seems they are hard to get

Plenty in Dairygold

Dakota Dan

What’s the story about bvd samples? I sent off a load of them today only to hear on the news that they are using the centre for COVID-19 testing only.

whelan2

Dakota Dan wrote: »

What’s the story about bvd samples? I sent off a load of them today only to hear on the news that they are using the centre for COVID-19 testing only.

I posted some on Monday. Will let you know when I get the results

GrasstoMilk

whelan2 wrote: »

Anyone got milking gloves recently, seems they are hard to get

Yes. Mam went into magenta last week to get a 10 pack of gloves but they were only able to give a single box of gloves