Dairy Chitchat 3

Gawddawggonnit

Castlekeeper wrote: »

It was good on the issues but clueless on the solutions, either through ignorance or because of the host and audience, saying culture change rather than legislation and enforcement I'd the answer is laughable.
The whole agri-industrial system has got us into this mess and aggressively doubled down on it in the last 5 years aided and abetted by the same Dept of Ag, there'll be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Yes it resonates of light touch regulation á la Patrick Neary and the Irish Central bank...that ended well.

kevthegaff

I think the end game is nigh, what well see now to tackle the problem will be contract rearing, taking on more grazing land or even sowing your own tillage land, exporting slurry and even reducing numbers. It will increase or cost of farming no doubt

alps

kevthegaff wrote: »

I think the end game is nigh, what well see now to tackle the problem will be contract rearing, taking on more grazing land or even sowing your own tillage land, exporting slurry and even reducing numbers. It will increase or cost of farming no doubt

Its about spreading dairy farmers earning capability around the rest of the community...

Just watch where most of the noise is coming from..

timple23

Quick question about pregrazing yields on understocked farms. If pregrazing covers are above 1600/1700, is it still not better/more economical to still graze and not take paddock out for surplus silage?

Will have cost of paying contractor/plastic and have the cost of replacing the nutrients taken from cutting the paddock for silage.

Is it not better to strip graze and post graze mow?

No interest in selling surplus silage, already have silage left from last year, not worth hassle.

trg

kevthegaff wrote: »

I think the end game is nigh, what well see now to tackle the problem will be contract rearing, taking on more grazing land or even sowing your own tillage land, exporting slurry and even reducing numbers. It will increase or cost of farming no doubt

Contract Rearing slow enough to take off. The theory is great but a slow burner. Its a quasi partnership I guess which maybe people aren't keen on.

Would there be any take up of lads buying Fr heifer calves and rearing them to the point of calving? A lad would be his own boss then and the dairy man would get a quicker return for his money and gets to hang onto it longer.

Mooooo

timple23 wrote: »

Quick question about pregrazing yields on understocked farms. If pregrazing covers are above 1600/1700, is it still not better/more economical to still graze and not take paddock out for surplus silage?

Will have cost of paying contractor/plastic and have the cost of replacing the nutrients taken from cutting the paddock for silage.

Is it not better to strip graze and post graze mow?

No interest in selling surplus silage, already have silage left from last year, not worth hassle.

You'll be using part of the cost saving by topping after. I'd either stop ground for pit silage or bale and extra layer of wrap. Bale any strong paddocks and cut the meal down to the minimum and keep the grass right. Throw out the parlour washings on any bit cut. What's understocked. It's not the middle of May yet having extra feed is the same as money in the bank if the year goes to pot. Aim to make quality and you'll get more back in performance.
You could also target some reseeding if you want

Gawddawggonnit

alps wrote: »

Its about spreading dairy farmers earning capability around the rest of the community...

Just watch where most of the noise is coming from..

Elaborate a bit please?

atlantic mist

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

How do guys using mains water cope with the chlorine in the water used in the wash?

dont seem to be an issue if using main water, they seem happy if your ticking the box using non clorine products to meet customer requirements and eu legistation

its a bit confusing the eu some how think it is ok to have clorine in drinking water, wash fruit and veg but not ok to wash milking machine or tank

next door neighbour in on mains cant pass a clorine test, ive passed the test using clorine but have my own well which means the tank and parlor are actually washed by clean natural water

non clorine products are twice the price of clorine, cant put my head in tank to see if clean any more with the fumes from prodcuts, dont know how food is processed for human consumption with no taint, to me clorine is a much safer product

greenfield21

Leave pit face open? Any Sprays or plastic any good to preserve.

Buford T. Justice XIX

atlantic mist wrote: »

dont seem to be an issue if using main water, they seem happy if your ticking the box using non clorine products to meet customer requirements and eu legistation

its a bit confusing the eu some how think it is ok to have clorine in drinking water, wash fruit and veg but not ok to wash milking machine or tank

next door neighbour in on mains cant pass a clorine test, ive passed the test using clorine but have my own well which means the tank and parlor are actually washed by clean natural water

non clorine products are twice the price of clorine, cant put my head in tank to see if clean any more with the fumes from prodcuts, dont know how food is processed for human consumption with no taint, to me clorine is a much safer product

I think they're going with the precautionary principle due to possible residues in powders for baby foods.

We aren't due to change over till Autumn so I'm in no rush till then. We got a TBC of 3 in our last test so I'm not changing till I have to:)

Mooooo

It apparently creates black dots appear in some cheeses and the likes I think

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mooooo wrote: »

It apparently creates black dots appear in some cheeses and the likes I think

Is that not the sealers?

degetme

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I think they're going with the precautionary principle due to possible residues in powders for baby foods.

We aren't due to change over till Autumn so I'm in no rush till then. We got a TBC of 3 in our last test so I'm not changing till I have to:)

I got a phone call today from kerry milk advisor saying how we will have to be chlorine free on the bulk tank in june. How come your the autumn?

Water John

Since chlorine is a disinfectant for killing bacteria and virus, its going to affect any cheeses process which is dependant on such activity. It will also interact with milk to create Trihalomethanes (THMs).
Other disinfectants may not be as good. Iv'e heard of technicians recommending giving the bulk tank a good scouring once a month with it and rinsing very thoroughly.

Buford T. Justice XIX

degetme wrote: »

I got a phone call today from kerry milk advisor saying how we will have to be chlorine free on the bulk tank in june. How come your the autumn?

Newmarket, then Charleville and Listowel last to have it sorted, iirc.

straight

timple23 wrote: »

Quick question about pregrazing yields on understocked farms. If pregrazing covers are above 1600/1700, is it still not better/more economical to still graze and not take paddock out for surplus silage?

Will have cost of paying contractor/plastic and have the cost of replacing the nutrients taken from cutting the paddock for silage.

Is it not better to strip graze and post graze mow?

No interest in selling surplus silage, already have silage left from last year, not worth hassle.

You won't find too many to agree with you here. I'm stocked at 4.7 here and I have grazed the odd heavy cover. Protein takes a hit but my butter fat went from 3.85 to 4.07 and their dungs got more solid. I had undigested grass passing through the cows on the lush 1400 covers. I'd give the short grass by day and stemmy grass by night or vice/versa. Cows are holding around the 2.1 to 2.2 kgs per day which I'm happy with. 24% 1st calvers. Also I think one thing that is very important is gut fill which is harder to achieve with the short grass. No topping needed here, they're skinning it.

Timmaay

I don't see any problem with letting cows graze covers up to 2k, especially when the weather is absolutely perfect for grazing and clean outs like it is now. The much bigger problem in a normal may/June is you'll be growing 30/40 or more a day than the cows can handle, and them 16/1800 covers very quickly turn into 2500+, and in particular from late May on the steam will start really pushing out, turning them 2k+ covers into sh1te for milking cows. I'd actually agree also with you that ya gotta be careful about extremely lush 12/1400 covers, I've seen it before, cows on nothing them sort of covers with like less than 2kg of nuts can run into trouble quick and solids (both bf and pr) can drop quickly as a result and be slow to come back up. It's all the one big advantage of this bit of a drought and dip in growth now ha, the cows are milking the best they ever have in May, I've let the afc creep up and rotation length go out, so cows going into 1800 covers here, and no real fear of the covers shooting up too quick, bar decent rain comes, I'll have to react very quickly then and probably cut half the farm ha.

alps

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Elaborate a bit please?

Solutions...

The narrative has been ongoing now for some time.

Contract rearing touted as the solution to lack of profitability in beef..

Poorly taken up on so next up we come with the science that that the dairy lad should pay you to take the calf..(nothing like you should only pay the contractor 50€ to cut the silage or pay the tillage lad 100€ for the tonne of barley)...but no...there's surplus in the dairy yard...

Now the tillage narrative is that tillage and dairy lads need to team up...food in..slurry out...money one way..

And as all this has not been happening at any great pace, we're now starting the narrative that the dairy lads will just have to do it now because the derogation is ****ed...

Castlekeeper

alps wrote: »

Solutions...

The narrative has been ongoing now for some time.

Contract rearing touted as the solution to lack of profitability in beef..

Poorly taken up on so next up we come with the science that that the dairy lad should pay you to take the calf..(nothing like you should only pay the contractor 50€ to cut the silage or pay the tillage lad 100€ for the tonne of barley)...but no...there's surplus in the dairy yard...

Now the tillage narrative is that tillage and dairy lads need to team up...food in..slurry out...money one way..

And as all this has not been happening at any great pace, we're now starting the narrative that the dairy lads will just have to do it now because the derogation is ****ed...

I thought that the idea behind contract rearing was that the dairy man could milk more cows, and make more money with a simplified system?

And I thought the issue with calf values was the lower beef prices and a lot of poor quality calves?

And as for the tillage, surely it's easier and better for the dairy farmer to get quality grain from down the road than trying to grow it themselves or use imported muck from halfway round the world?

As for the derogation issues, aren't they not as a result of ever-declining water quality?

Or maybe it's all a big conspiracy... !

whelan2

Got a text about a remote bord bia inspection. Anyone else get this. Mine expired in April

alps

Castlekeeper wrote: »

I thought that the idea behind contract rearing was that the dairy man could milk more cows, and make more money with a simplified system?

And I thought the issue with calf values was the lower beef prices and a lot of poor quality calves?

And as for the tillage, surely it's easier and better for the dairy farmer to get quality grain from down the road than trying to grow it themselves or use imported muck from halfway round the world?

As for the derogation issues, aren't they not as a result of ever-declining water quality?

Or maybe it's all a big conspiracy... !

All honorable ventures as long as it's not prefaced with....because the derogation is finished...

kevthegaff

What are aubrac bulls like for a dairy herd lads?

tanko

kevthegaff wrote: »

What are aubrac bulls like for a dairy herd lads?

What colour would they be off dairy cows, if they looked like jersey crosses it wouldn't be good.

straight

https://www.thatsfarming.com/news/video-its-been-too-many-years-of-working-for-nothing

Base price

kevthegaff wrote: »

What are aubrac bulls like for a dairy herd lads?

I know some cross bred herds used them this year instead of AA and HE. I wouldn't be much impressed with what I've seen, they wouldn't be any better conformation. I notice some showing up in Carnaross and Carrigallen online sales in the last couple of weeks.

Water John

The few I have are from beef crosses and they're black with grey through it, sort of mousy coloured. Don't think you'd mistake them for Jersey cross.
See a guy near me with a Holstein herd has an Aubrac bull. Speckled Park worth looking at too. I'd hope the progeny would bring the distinctive stripe on their backs. Have some shorthorn and angus in them.

Buford T. Justice XIX

straight wrote: »

https://www.thatsfarming.com/news/video-its-been-too-many-years-of-working-for-nothing

orm0nd

kevthegaff wrote: »

What are aubrac bulls like for a dairy herd lads?

Ok if you are finishing them your self.


Not the best if you are selling calves or stores.

Gawddawggonnit

alps wrote: »

Solutions...

The narrative has been ongoing now for some time.

Contract rearing touted as the solution to lack of profitability in beef..

Poorly taken up on so next up we come with the science that that the dairy lad should pay you to take the calf..(nothing like you should only pay the contractor 50€ to cut the silage or pay the tillage lad 100€ for the tonne of barley)...but no...there's surplus in the dairy yard...

Now the tillage narrative is that tillage and dairy lads need to team up...food in..slurry out...money one way..

And as all this has not been happening at any great pace, we're now starting the narrative that the dairy lads will just have to do it now because the derogation is ****ed...

Ah yes, I can understand where you’re coming from.
Lads are gaming the dero/nitrates, kinda like the markets are gaming the eminent bailout on the way...tillage lads wouldn’t be covering themselves in glory either and will eventually get hit just as hard as dairy. They’re gaming on the strength of the fact that they’re not using any organic manures. Well I can safely say that they’ll be glad to pay for organic manures when the nitrates are squeezed up...half a ton of fert per acre for a crop of wwheat isn’t exactly organic now is it?

Uncertainty is a killer for any business going forward and imho the Dept aren’t helping farmers by kicking the can as far down the road as possible. Everyone knows that it can’t carry on as is, and it’s only a matter of time before regs are put in place and enforced. Thus the sooner that nitrates are tackled in a phased manner the better. When you know what you’re going to be allowed spread in say 5yrs you can then adjust stocking rates or take on more land (etc) accordingly.
The worst case scenario is for the Commission to wade in firing draconian regs left, right and centre to rectify a continuously worsening situation in a country that they know nothing about.

Castlekeeper

kevthegaff wrote: »

What are aubrac bulls like for a dairy herd lads?

Very good here, depends what your looking for of course, easy calving, good quality, and easy sold. Bulls not too dear either and generally good quality in the breed. Maybe try a few AI straws this year? This has been covered recently in another thread.
Well fed healthy calves averaging 200 here at 3-4 weeks, would have been 250 last year. One hard calving with a heifer (as in needed jack, no tearing or any damage) and none with cows.

Castlekeeper

Base price wrote: »

I know some cross bred herds used them this year instead of AA and HE. I wouldn't be much impressed with what I've seen, they wouldn't be any better conformation. I notice some showing up in Carnaross and Carrigallen online sales in the last couple of weeks.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear!
But no the colour doesn't come great off the jersey, as in it doesn't hide it well, calf quality is good though considering.

Castlekeeper

tanko wrote: »

What colour would they be off dairy cows, if they looked like jersey crosses it wouldn't be good.

Much the same as the Limo, blacks, dark browns, and the odd red if it's in the mother, some mousey browns too. A hairy-er bull is a plus for calf sales as some bulls can be quite short haired. Born small and grow well, if they're fed if course!

cosatron

we have 3 aubrac bulls and a heifer by Turloughmore Majestic AU4836, all 3 bulls are savage calves, lovely black/brown colour, you would think they are limo as castlekeeper said. Heifer is a bit smaller and didn't do as well as the 3 bulls. We are going to keep them and finish them, I'd be disappointed if they don't grade an R and finished under 30 months easily. They 3 bulls went full term and had to use the jack on 2 cows and I would only put them on big fleshy type mature cows for best results.

visatorro

Base price wrote:

I know some cross bred herds used them this year instead of AA and HE. I wouldn't be much impressed with what I've seen, they wouldn't be any better conformation. I notice some showing up in Carnaross and Carrigallen online sales in the last couple of weeks.

Friend of mine who buys calves says they are a horrible looking bastard of a yoke!

Gawddawggonnit

visatorro wrote: »

Friend of mine who buys calves says they are a horrible looking bastard of a yoke!

I’ve tried Aubrac and they can be a bit difficult to calve from time to time. Calves are horrible as you say. Hard enough finished also, kinda like the Partanay.

What’s wrong with an easy calving Charolais, they’re always in demand and make good enough beef.

mahoney_j

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I’ve tried Aubrac and they can be a bit difficult to calve from time to time. Calves are horrible as you say. Hard enough finished also, kinda like the Partanay.

What’s wrong with an easy calving Charolais, they’re always in demand and make good enough beef.

Yep found mine v poor ,calves tiny and je like (v hard sale )didn’t grow into anything special .they are short gestation and easy calved tho sort of suit the tegasc narrative that way just get the calf out with little hassle and sure the calf (price and quality )dosnt matter !!!!.got on very good with bb si and ch on select cows and he always sell well

Say my name

Someone measured soil carbon.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/710132982450673?view=permalink&id=1923585397772086

It's becoming a thing now measuring soil carbon. Where it goes from here though is anybody's guess.
Whether for the farmers own interest and a guide to soil health or outside interests and accounting for climate targets and agreements.
It's a road that's just about to be opened wherever it ends up.

GrasstoMilk

Say my name wrote: »

Someone measured soil carbon.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/710132982450673?view=permalink&id=1923585397772086

It's becoming a thing now measuring soil carbon. Where it goes from here though is anybody's guess.
Whether for the farmers own interest and a guide to soil health or outside interests and accounting for climate targets and agreements.
It's a road that's just about to be opened wherever it ends up.

Would you look at that, reseeded every 10 years!!

Castlekeeper

Say my name wrote: »

Someone measured soil carbon.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/710132982450673?view=permalink&id=1923585397772086

It's becoming a thing now measuring soil carbon. Where it goes from here though is anybody's guess.
Whether for the farmers own interest and a guide to soil health or outside interests and accounting for climate targets and agreements.
It's a road that's just about to be opened wherever it ends up.

One of the main issues I've heard of from experts is that results are inconsistent depending on methodologies and soils, sometimes they don't make sense, or we can't make sense of them.

The Rabbi

Oh lovely,they now have a measuring stick for soil carbon.Another stick to beat us with.

straight

The Rabbi wrote: »

Oh lovely,they now have a measuring stick for soil carbon.Another stick to beat us with.

Well they could pay us for it but that's not going to happen. Taxes and more taxes for the foreseeable future.

alps

The Rabbi wrote: »

Oh lovely,they now have a measuring stick for soil carbon.Another stick to beat us with.

It's a measurement that can be the most advantageous in defence of livestock farming. If this can be perfected and expanded, It will be the saving of our systems.

yosemitesam1

Say my name wrote: »

Someone measured soil carbon.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/710132982450673?view=permalink&id=1923585397772086

It's becoming a thing now measuring soil carbon. Where it goes from here though is anybody's guess.
Whether for the farmers own interest and a guide to soil health or outside interests and accounting for climate targets and agreements.
It's a road that's just about to be opened wherever it ends up.

Would be interesting to know what soil type, if bulk density was measured and if carbon or organic matter was measured

kevthegaff

When are guys worming cows and with what?

visatorro

kevthegaff wrote:

When are guys worming cows and with what?

Advice from Glanbia bulk tank test was to dose heifers now and leave older cows until drying off. Probably just go with eprinex or similar product on heifers

straight

What happened all this talk of culled pigs and massive protein shortage?

GrasstoMilk

kevthegaff wrote: »

When are guys worming cows and with what?

Lots of coughing going on here. Going to ring vet tomorrow and see what he thinks

Mooooo

https://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2020/five-steps-to-managing-cash-flow-through-2020.php

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

When are guys worming cows and with what?

Will do all cows and heifers with eprinex in early June .tested dungs from bunch of cows and heifers last November all clear so no dose

liosnagceann75

kevthegaff wrote: »

When are guys worming cows and with what?

Injected the cows with Epricis last week. Used to do them with Eprinex but changed to the injection following a chat with the vet.

Got ruined in the parlour tonight. A cow coughed and exploded at the same time. Didn't see it coming. Not a pleasant experience.