Dairy Chitchat 3

Gillespy

With diesel dirt cheap and no sport on television or anywhere to go, it's been a great topping season here. Hit all the Topping Targets comfortably.

alps

Say my name wrote: »

Get a foliar feed of minerals in at the start of the year and you'll never need a topper again.
Don't go above 18 units of nitrogen for your round with the spreader.
With the minerals and the cut back on the spreader the cows will clean out every grazing and grass will be dark green even after grazing and yields will stay up.
Only downside is you won't be taking out paddocks for silage like your neighbours but your cows will be shining. Grass won't head out like your neighbours.

We wouldn't be at 300 but the same principles should apply.

Do you but a foliar feed off the self or make up something yourself?

Sacrolyte

Panch18 wrote: »

What are fellas with big herds, say 300 plus using for topping?

We seem to be spending ages at it every day and we were barely at 150

Young fellas

Buford T. Justice XIX

Panch18 wrote: »

What are fellas with big herds, say 300 plus using for topping?

We seem to be spending ages at it every day and we were barely at 150

Keepgrowing had it right, recreational diesel use:D

it's a scourge of a job and I hate doing it so I would tend towards keeping growth rates up and taking it out as bales next time round. If there was only a few weeds like rushes and thistles there, I'd give it a quick run with the mower alright.

We'd nearly always have to feed bales in August anyway so it's good to have a bale or two per cow for feeding outside when growth drops away in August, a bale into 3 ring feeders and a few kgs in the parlour. We would only feed silage inside during wet spells, outside is much easier.

Neighbours have close enough to 300 milking and would take out paddocks with a silage wagon or pre mow. I've never seen them top a paddock.

Timmaay

Sacrolyte wrote: »

Young fellas

I've had 5 different lads coming looking for a job here since corona hit.

Say my name

alps wrote: »

Do you but a foliar feed off the self or make up something yourself?

I'm using a bought seaweed powder flake and mixing molasses with it this year.
I've gone the once this year.

But tbh this all started with me a few years ago when I applied the basalt dust. It's only looking back now that I've seen I've had no need to top grass bar top thistles. The cows always clean the grass to the ground even old pasture that must be here thirty years. I'm not measuring but the grass quantity would be back but utilization couldn't be better.
The seaweed and molasses this year just by grass appearance and colour has been a benefit on top of where I've come to now. You'll keep the milk up on very little but theyre not restricted either. It must be brix but I'm not measuring that either so no figures.

I had a lad measured grass here on 3rd Jan last year with one with a fuzzy line and a measurement of 6.

It must be that though. You'll get the pure npk lads and the brix reader will show a solid line and down in the three's.

But for anyone for an experiment it wouldn't cost the earth just to go out with a seaweed and molasses spray and see what the grass does and what utilization is like. And you'll know how they use it by their milk yield.
Just have leaf to be able to take it in and it 'll probably be the second grazing after application that you'll see any difference.

warfie35

Bazzer007 wrote:

Looking for some advice please. Going upgrading the parlour & think I'll go down mostly the secondhand route instead of Tams. Will put in acr's, increase size of vacuum line, swing overarms & new lightweight clusters. Milk & vacuum pump are relatively new. Using 4x0 pulsation. Will stick with a 14 unit parlour. Could anyone recommend a few suppliers to contact or who specialise in 2and equipment? My guy quoted €20k & thinks I should put in a new variable milk pump as well. Not sure what they cost exactly. I'm based in Limerick. Thanks.

I'll send you pm

GrasstoMilk

straight wrote: »

What about feed to yield? Would you go down that route. Feed the ones that deserve it and don't feed it to the slackers.

You should listen to this weeks teagasc podcast
Feed to yield trial done in johnstown few years ago.
400kg more fed with fty they got 500l more milk per cow, fty herd was yielding the same as flat rate herd by the end of june.
No difference in incalf rate.
For the price of installing fty the return in investment was going to be a long long time.

Haters will say its bs though

Mooooo

Timmaay wrote: »

I've had 5 different lads coming looking for a job here since corona hit.

Tis grand for you, they can hop off to the beach after !

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You should listen to this weeks teagasc podcast
Feed to yield trial done in johnstown few years ago.
400kg more fed with fty they got 500l more milk per cow, fty herd was yielding the same as flat rate herd by the end of june.
No difference in incalf rate.
For the price of installing fty the return in investment was going to be a long long time.

Haters will say its bs though

Have it 10 years next year no way I’d throw it out or not use it .invalueable when used right either that or a diet feeder and then another tractor #notthanks any farmer I know with it would have a fairy different opinion to what you’ve outlined cows in my parlour on 3 kg some on 8 andin betewen I’d be more inclined to listen to farmers with it than in dome trials where lots different variables

Coolfresian

mahoney_j wrote: »

Have it 10 years next year no way I’d throw it out or not use it .invalueable when used right either that or a diet feeder and then another tractor #notthanks any farmer I know with it would have a fairy different opinion to what you’ve outlined cows in my parlour on 3 kg some on 8 andin betewen I’d be more inclined to listen to farmers with it than in dome trials where lots different variables

+1 it's a serious tool. Have it in almost 3 years here. Split calving system so incredibly useful to feed autumn and spring calvers different at each time of the year. Huge bonus after calving and in the summer months. Big saving on meal and higher yields since I got it. Use mine as a full.herd management program with breeding charts, yield charts, alarms set to parlour for antibiotic cows, lists of cows to draft automatically, warnings for cows not reaching predicted yields etc, all on a pad and screen in the pit and linked to computer in office. Serious piece of kit and wouldn't be without it.

mahoney_j

Coolfresian wrote: »

+1 it's a serious tool. Have it in almost 3 years here. Split calving system so incredibly useful to feed autumn and spring calvers different at each time of the year. Huge bonus after calving and in the summer months. Big saving on meal and higher yields since I got it. Use mine as a full.herd management program with breeding charts, yield charts, alarms set to parlour for antibiotic cows, lists of cows to draft automatically, warnings for cows not reaching predicted yields etc, all on a pad and screen in the pit and linked to computer in office. Serious piece of kit and wouldn't be without it.

That’s the sort of opinion I’d listen to from someone with actual experience of milking cows in there own herd

visatorro

Anyone have the drive
drive thru spring gate that work with the electric fence?

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

That’s the sort of opinion I’d listen to from someone with actual experience of milking cows in there own herd

Because it's what you want to hear maybe.

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Because it's what you want to hear maybe.

Nope because I’d pay more heed to a farmer working with the system than trials with lots variables either way I’ve near 10 years experience with fty and from it I would certainly reccomended it

Gillespy

It's crazy how often Teagasc trials throw up results like that one. Extra feed to cows milking above average does no good. Okay.

Mooooo

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You should listen to this weeks teagasc podcast
Feed to yield trial done in johnstown few years ago.
400kg more fed with fty they got 500l more milk per cow, fty herd was yielding the same as flat rate herd by the end of june.
No difference in incalf rate.
For the price of installing fty the return in investment was going to be a long long time.

Haters will say its bs though

Bit harsh with the last line there tbh. Haven't heard that podcast now so will have to find it to see what was done but if you have ID in parlour for drafting or any type of yield indicator upgrading to fty isn't that much of a leap. Also from some I've heard talk of using it there tended to be no extra meal fed and reductions in some cases as it was the correct cow's getting it or not getting it within the herd.
With some trials tbh I need to see all the info before taking back what can be used here. Can't remember the details but I was doing the green cert part time back when clon had one main herd of cows and they had something up with regard to the the herd and it's performance, asked enough questions and what they had on the board unravelled quick enough I thought.
Not saying they are all bs but full details are key to them

Mooooo

Keepgrowing wrote: »

45 this week
60 last week
80 week before
Rain just in time

Growth 67
Cover 693
Cover/ cow 161

Next paddock is a hairy 1400, tempted to skip with damp weekend and warm weather forecast expect growth to head to 80 plus....fortune favours the brave and all that, or else I'll be cursing feeding a few bales lol

straight

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You should listen to this weeks teagasc podcast
Feed to yield trial done in johnstown few years ago.
400kg more fed with fty they got 500l more milk per cow, fty herd was yielding the same as flat rate herd by the end of june.
No difference in incalf rate.
For the price of installing fty the return in investment was going to be a long long time.

Haters will say its bs though

I heard the podcast and found it interesting. I nearly like the idea of cutting back the underperformers as much as pushing the top cows. I'd like to see them do the trial again because it sounded to me like they had their mind made up before they started and that they could put more research into it. He did say that feed to yield was better than feeding extra across the herd. The capital cost seemed to be his main problem with it. Either way I've a batch feed system here and have other priorities for a few more years but its something I may consider down the road.

Timmaay

Similar here straight, I only got batch feeders here, it was actually a backwards step in the new parlour from the old parlour that had manual cashmans which I was doing fty using tail tape on the cows, but I was on a shoestring budget with the parlour and other investments were alot more a priority back then. I can't say I've ever missed fty 2bh, almost all my focus here has been towards a compact spring calving system with a lower maintenance cow, and I think the returns on this whole route are multiple times anything to do with feeding meal.

However I will admit it was interesting seeing what some of the bigger older HOs who are still in my system did this spring during the near ideal grazing conditions across the last 2 months, I think the peak any individual cow gave was 43l, and that was with 3kg of meal, so the rest from just grass! So I guess it does question are many litres left behind during times of less ideal grazing conditions. Having said that it's all still marginal litres using feed that cost like 26c/kg, against the likes of buffering with maize which I usually use anyways from Nov till the end of march which works out half the price of nuts.

steer

Coolfresian wrote: »

+1 it's a serious tool. Have it in almost 3 years here. Split calving system so incredibly useful to feed autumn and spring calvers different at each time of the year. Huge bonus after calving and in the summer months. Big saving on meal and higher yields since I got it. Use mine as a full.herd management program with breeding charts, yield charts, alarms set to parlour for antibiotic cows, lists of cows to draft automatically, warnings for cows not reaching predicted yields etc, all on a pad and screen in the pit and linked to computer in office. Serious piece of kit and wouldn't be without it.

Agree with all that, in here 3 years big savings in feed.

dmakc

Would you notice many dry hump attempts from stock bulls or should his penis present every time he goes up? Watched ours today (he's new for us but has bulled in past elsewhere) and there was a lot of dry attempts with no erection

Say my name

dmakc wrote: »

Would you notice many dry hump attempts from stock bulls or should his penis present every time he goes up? Watched ours today (he's new for us but has bulled in past elsewhere) and there was a lot of dry attempts with no erection

You may just pay attention to the cows in three weeks time.

I was getting worried about our Angus here the same as yourself never really seen him bull a cow. But three weeks later the cows are very quiet. He mustnt like an audience.

Last year I had another bull in the same yard and this lad was all over every cow. Afraid I suppose the other lad would get to the cow.
This year he's on his own with the cows and no other bull in the yard. And he's like a teddy bear but you'd never really see him jump a cow. Let alone get a hole in one.

Edit: Maybe you should just keep an eye on him when there's a cow bulling. Even if you're hours watching you should nearly see him give "that jump" or you'll see a cow with her tail up.

Sacrolyte

mahoney_j wrote: »

Have it 10 years next year no way I’d throw it out or not use it .invalueable when used right either that or a diet feeder and then another tractor #notthanks any farmer I know with it would have a fairy different opinion to what you’ve outlined cows in my parlour on 3 kg some on 8 andin betewen I’d be more inclined to listen to farmers with it than in dome trials where lots different variables

What’s the difference in amount fed between a cow giving say 30l and one giving 40 etc.

mahoney_j

Sacrolyte wrote: »

What’s the difference in amount fed between a cow giving say 30l and one giving 40 etc.

3 kg for 26 kg milk 0.35 kg meal every litre over 26 to 8 kg max

atlantic mist

on fty here with three years, find it great for 1st 90-120 days, place a bit less reliance on it later in the season once breding has finished

increased meal consumed, much highers conseption rates than previously experienced(3%empty last year), maybe its just the animals i have but a cow doing 40l is getting 7/8kg otherwise she would loose to much condition and it negitavely affects her health/energy, i want her to last 10 lactations

only downside to the fty here is the grass/weather is so variable so under system no extra feed given on a cold/wet day, worked on a weeks avg to smooth out variables

Buford T. Justice XIX

FTY wouldn't be top of my list but I reckon it has a place near the end of things to do to maximise results.

Once the milking block is maxed out with grass performance and young stock reared elsewhere, it probably starts becoming relevant if you can't get economical access to grazing ground.

But I'd probably be zero grazing before I got to that stage, I think?

mahoney_j

atlantic mist wrote: »

on fty here with three years, find it great for 1st 90-120 days, place a bit less reliance on it later in the season once breding has finished

increased meal consumed, much highers conseption rates than previously experienced(3%empty last year), maybe its just the animals i have but a cow doing 40l is getting 7/8kg otherwise she would loose to much condition and it negitavely affects her health/energy, i want her to last 10 lactations

only downside to the fty here is the grass/weather is so variable so under system no extra feed given on a cold/wet day, worked on a weeks avg to smooth out variables

Works on daily average here and I can set min or max amount it’ll change by

mahoney_j

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

FTY wouldn't be top of my list but I reckon it has a place near the end of things to do to maximise results.

Once the milking block is maxed out with grass performance and young stock reared elsewhere, it probably starts becoming relevant if you can't get economical access to grazing ground.

But I'd probably be zero grazing before I got to that stage, I think?

I’d like to think it compliments stock without affecting grass management ,I’m stocked near 4 on milk blick for majority of year and often higher..do small bit z grazing spring/autumn but in no way would I like to be doing lots of it .always a bank of top quality silage in yard and I’d prefer that to z grazing either short/ling term .still buffering cows here with about 1.5 kg dm of bale silage cows never milked as well came in heat as strong and are in super condition .protein up on last year and butterfat well up.cows still grazing hard too .without fty in parlour I wouldn’t be getting results I’m getting and cows are been fed to there poteintal with batch feeding id be under feeding lots cows ditto over feeding .i listens to that podcast and didn’t make much of it someone earlier made a comment that there mind was already made up on the merits of it before even done .too much of a closed mind to different things like higher feeding rates higher production cows and a certain ifj reporter rubbishing higher spec dairy nuts with certain ingridents to help butterfats etc to me it’s nothing only an opinion without facts to drive an agenda .u can learn so much more from farmers u know who won’t bull**** you .ive met and know many from here /twitter and elsewhere that I’d be running ideas by first

Buford T. Justice XIX

mahoney_j wrote: »

I’d like to think it compliments stock without affecting grass management ,I’m stocked near 4 on milk blick for majority of year and often higher..do small bit z grazing spring/autumn but in no way would I like to be doing lots of it .always a bank of top quality silage in yard and I’d prefer that to z grazing either short/ling term .still buffering cows here with about 1.5 kg dm of bale silage cows never milked as well came in heat as strong and are in super condition .protein up on last year and butterfat well up.cows still grazing hard too .without fty in parlour I wouldn’t be getting results I’m getting and cows are been fed to there poteintal with batch feeding id be under feeding lots cows ditto over feeding .i listens to that podcast and didn’t make much of it someone earlier made a comment that there mind was already made up on the merits of it before even done .too much of a closed mind to different things like higher feeding rates higher production cows and a certain ifj reporter rubbishing higher spec dairy nuts with certain ingridents to help butterfats etc to me it’s nothing only an opinion without facts to drive an agenda .u can learn so much more from farmers u know who won’t bull**** you .ive met and know many from here /twitter and elsewhere that I’d be running ideas by first

I wouldn't argue with any of that, j. The whole thing is to maximise use of whatever limits your profits. In your case, land is the limit so you have to find a way to increase profits from the land.

FTY wouldn't be of much use to me as housing is my limit atm but more buildings will have to go up in the next few years to overcome that.

awaywithyou

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

FTY wouldn't be top of my list but I reckon it has a place near the end of things to do to maximise results.

Once the milking block is maxed out with grass performance and young stock reared elsewhere, it probably starts becoming relevant if you can't get economical access to grazing ground.

But I'd probably be zero grazing before I got to that stage, I think?

have fty here... wouldnt b without it.... not really about access to grass for me... more about being able to push production in the cows that have the ability to milk more than there herdmates..... a heifer isnt going to produce the same as a 4th calver... so no point in she getting the same quantity of nuts..... even if i was lowly stocked... i would still use FTY... as we all know grass is not a complete feed and has its limitations.... a cow doing 50-60litres/day is going to need 8-9kgs of nuts to sustain that level of produiction no matter how much grass she has access to...

its also very handy for drying off cows... u can pull the nuts from a bunch to be dried to help with lowering their milk yield... and it wont affect the rest of the herd

Mach Two

What do ye mean by FTY.

Mooooo

Mach Two wrote: »

What do ye mean by FTY.

Feed To Yield. Parlour metres measure the cow's output and adjusts the feed to the cow's according to whatever parameters you set

Had a look at dairymasters webinar while ago on a rotary. 300 cows an hour, a fine bit of kit but only showed the lad milking for a minute but you'd be fair moving to keep up. The cow's would want to be in place a while beforehand to pay for it tho, but that would be the same for most investments I spose. Know of one lad who was considering 3 robots as later in career but didn't mind milking and rotary was similar price after so put in a rotary instead

tanko

Mach Two wrote: »

What do ye mean by FTY.

Feed to yield i think. The more milk a cow is capable of producing, the more nuts she get in the parlour.

Mach Two

I presume this records a cow's yield every day and you can adjust your level of meal fed every day.

visatorro

Lad I know does relief milking for a fella with jars in the parlour. He says if the jar is filling up he gives them another pull of meal. Simple feed to yield for ya's!

visatorro

Lad I know does relief milking for a fella with jars in the parlour. He says if the jar is filling up he gives them another pull of meal. Simple feed to yield for ya's!

Acquiescence

visatorro wrote: »

Lad I know does relief milking for a fella with jars in the parlour. He says if the jar is filling up he gives them another pull of meal. Simple feed to yield for ya's!

I've no autofeeders. Any cow that waits outside the parlour after milking gets an extra fist of nuts in a bucket.

Ghetto feed to yield.

You could write the milk recording report based off who self-selects most of the time.

Mach Two

Acquiescence wrote: »

I've no autofeeders. Any cow that waits outside the parlour after milking gets an extra fist of nuts in a bucket.

Ghetto feed to yield.

You could write the milk recording report based off who self-selects most of the time.

Always reckoned that jars were the way to go in a parlour for milk recording and collecting biestings. Also disposing of antibiotic milk. You get a great visual of milk yield. Is there any system of recording a cow's morning milking and evening milking so as to get a daily yield. Also the fact that you are only feeding meal for approximately 2-3 mts would have to be taken in to account.

mahoney_j

Mach Two wrote: »

Always reckoned that jars were the way to go in a parlour for milk recording and collecting biestings. Also disposing of antibiotic milk. You get a great visual of milk yield. Is there any system of recording a cow's morning milking and evening milking so as to get a daily yield. Also the fact that you are only feeding meal for approximately 2-3 mts would have to be taken in to account.

Very few if any are only feeding meal for 2/3 months to some you’d swear twas a sin to give a cow a few nuts ....I know a recent new entrant to milk was at the top of his game buying and finishing cattle at decent numbers .he thinks nothing of feeding 4 /5 kg meal to his cows he comments try throw 8/10 kg into a beef ainmal for a period of time and at the end if u break even your lucky

cute geoge

Look at the size of a bag of sugar up in the cupboard is this not a very small amount to feed a big producing animal ,well actually it is 1 kg!!

Mach Two

Are people feeding meal to cow's on grass fulltime.

mahoney_j

Mach Two wrote: »

Are people feeding meal to cow's on grass fulltime.

Yep atm fty averaging 6.1 kg cows averaging just under 34 Ltrs and 2.56 kgms Full time grass and also getting 1.5!kg dm silage ...

Mach Two

If the feeding value of good quality grass equals the feeding value of meal why feed meal.

mahoney_j

Mach Two wrote: »

If the feeding value of good quality grass equals the feeding value of meal why feed meal.

It dosnt always equal it or come close paddocks differ dm differs weather can be is changeable and gras on its own only dose so much genetics in my herd capable of doing more so why not get it ....and also make a few quid .not a fan of chopping and changing amounts of meal fed cows thrive on stability

whelan2

visatorro wrote: »

Lad I know does relief milking for a fella with jars in the parlour. He says if the jar is filling up he gives them another pull of meal. Simple feed to yield for ya's!

Ye we have jars here. Any of them giving over 35 litres a day get extra nuts as a thank you from me

whelan2

Mach Two wrote: »

Always reckoned that jars were the way to go in a parlour for milk recording and collecting biestings. Also disposing of antibiotic milk. You get a great visual of milk yield. Is there any system of recording a cow's morning milking and evening milking so as to get a daily yield. Also the fact that you are only feeding meal for approximately 2-3 mts would have to be taken in to account.

Young lad drives me twisty here when he doesn't empty a jar between cows especially at this time of year. They do empty themselves but sometimes he can't wait

Mach Two

whelan2 wrote: »

Ye we have jars here. Any of them giving over 35 litres a day get extra nuts as a thank you from me

How much extra?

whelan2

Mach Two wrote: »

How much extra?

2kg extra morning and evening

Mach Two

whelan2 wrote: »

2kg extra morning and evening

Is that 2 kg on top of a set amount of meal you are giving to all the cows.