Dairy Chitchat 3

Mooooo

Too broad to say tbh, depends on the cows could be 700/800 to 1600+

Icelandicseige

Mooooo wrote: »

Too broad to say tbh, depends on the cows could be 700/800 to 1600+

Thanks would be Crossbred with good breeding behind them

straight

Would it be safe to put out urea in this weather. I've a pallet in the yard to use up

Gawddawggonnit

Going through the herd there now after a milk recording.
1. Pb holstein 577 days in lactation. Sixth lactation. 210 days in calf. Producing 34.4 litres @ 3.7pr and 4.5bf.

2. Pb holstein 5th lactation. 203 days in calf. 505 days in lactation. Producing 27.7L @ 3.4pr and 4,1bf.

Maybe some good (except fertility!) holsteins could solve the dairy xbred calf issue?

Just saying.

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Going through the herd there now after a milk recording.
1. Pb holstein 577 days in lactation. Sixth lactation. 210 days in calf. Producing 34.4 litres @ 3.7pr and 4.5bf.

2. Pb holstein 5th lactation. 203 days in calf. 505 days in lactation. Producing 27.7L @ 3.4pr and 4,1bf.

Maybe some good (except fertility!) holsteins could solve the dairy xbred calf issue?

Just saying.

Had a few like that back in split calving days. Wouldn't bother serving till the following season, ie calved in spring served for autumn etc. as a waste of straws expecting em to hold, but would just keep on milking. Fine if milking thru the winter and they would still be yielding well a year and a half later but not much good in spring block calving where you want to dry the herd off for Xmas. We don't have access to cheaper indoor feeds ye have over on the continent either so costs of winter production are higher.

cosatron

Agreed Gawd, I think the mantra will change to produce more milk from less cows. Since the quota's were abolished we've increased production by almost 50% and we've only gone up 4 cows with the exact same system, the only change is I done the diy AI course and bred a Holstein cow that suits our system, medium sized, strong cows with high volume milk.

Keep Sluicing

A cow that calves every 548 days (18 months) with 2, 6 week, calving blocks. A nice winter milk contract and cheapish high quality winter feed would make it interesting.

Gawddawggonnit

Mooooo wrote: »

Had a few like that back in split calving days. Wouldn't bother serving till the following season, ie calved in spring served for autumn etc. as a waste of straws expecting em to hold, but would just keep on milking. Fine if milking thru the winter and they would still be yielding well a year and a half later but not much good in spring block calving where you want to dry the herd off for Xmas. We don't have access to cheaper indoor feeds ye have over on the continent either so costs of winter production are higher.

“...where you dry off the herd for Xmas”.

Soooo, extrapolating your logic, xbreds are the craze now because ye want to dry off the herd for Xmas??
Idle bunch of #%~¥!!!

whelan2

Just finished my virtual bord bia inspection. Got 97% was pulled up on withdrawal dates not right on ifc. I would have imputed these years ago and they gave changed since so need to correct them. Everything else ok

Gawddawggonnit

cosatron wrote: »

Agreed Gawd, I think the mantra will change to produce more milk from less cows. Since the quota's were abolished we've increased production by almost 50% and we've only gone up 4 cows with the exact same system, the only change is I done the diy AI course and bred a Holstein cow that suits our system, medium sized, strong cows with high volume milk.

Am I getting this right...you increased production by 50% by changing breed?
That’s impressive, very impressive indeed.
Definitely worth some in-depth study by Teagasc surely? Same cow numbers and 50% increase.


But but but...what about Twitter? You simply couldn’t go on there posting that you HALVED your herd. The shame!!

Timmaay

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

“...where you dry off the herd for Xmas”.

Soooo, extrapolating your logic, xbreds are the craze now because ye want to dry off the herd for Xmas??
Idle bunch of #%~¥!!!

Would you milk through Xmas on a base price of 26c+vat?

C0N0R

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Going through the herd there now after a milk recording.
1. Pb holstein 577 days in lactation. Sixth lactation. 210 days in calf. Producing 34.4 litres @ 3.7pr and 4.5bf.

2. Pb holstein 5th lactation. 203 days in calf. 505 days in lactation. Producing 27.7L @ 3.4pr and 4,1bf.

Maybe some good (except fertility!) holsteins could solve the dairy xbred calf issue?

Just saying.

What kind of peaks do you get? Calving interval? Herd average?? Intakes?

cosatron

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Am I getting this right...you increased production by 50% by changing breed?
That’s impressive, very impressive indeed.
Definitely worth some in-depth study by Teagasc surely? Same cow numbers and 50% increase.


But but but...what about Twitter? You simply couldn’t go on there posting that you HALVED your herd. The shame!!

in 2011 the cows were 50% British Friesian and 50% Holstein since then ive being breeding predominately Holstein bulls on them but only breed the best cows every year it took a while to get the return but we got there, very happy with the herd now with 25% of herd in there first lactation.

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

“...where you dry off the herd for Xmas”.

Soooo, extrapolating your logic, xbreds are the craze now because ye want to dry off the herd for Xmas??
Idle bunch of #%~¥!!!

Lol. Yeah. Went all spring 2 years ago and was my first Xmas since I was 14 I'd say not getting up at 5, was a nice change! We are not paid enough for winter milk here and the coops won't pay enough of a bonus for it. Coops have to uo there games tbh. Plenty non crossbred herds all spring and doing fine. It's when you get to the numbers and get to the stage where youb can breed from the cows that suit the system, milk fert and longevity. Might get there some day

jaymla627

cosatron wrote: »

Agreed Gawd, I think the mantra will change to produce more milk from less cows. Since the quota's were abolished we've increased production by almost 50% and we've only gone up 4 cows with the exact same system, the only change is I done the diy AI course and bred a Holstein cow that suits our system, medium sized, strong cows with high volume

Id take it your staying well away from high ebi irish genetics and using proper forigen holstein bulls so

cosatron

jaymla627 wrote: »

Id take it your staying well away from high ebi irish genetics and using proper forigen holstein bulls so

for the first few years i tried a bit of everything to see how they respond on our system as on the west coast, the cows are in 6 months a year and we found the cows that performed the best were the holstiens, we have some great cows by cgh, mxz, rof and axn and we have some lovely heifers coming now by twist, hzb yry and yks.

jaymla627

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Am I getting this right...you increased production by 50% by changing breed?
That’s impressive, very impressive indeed.
Definitely worth some in-depth study by Teagasc surely? Same cow numbers and 50% increase.


But but but...what about Twitter? You simply couldn’t go on there posting that you HALVED your herd. The shame!!

Seen a bit of info re the massive progression in the national herd since 2000 average milk solids delivered in 2000 nationally per cow was 405kgs ms with the average cow doing 4.5 lactations, present day milk solids delivered is still 405kgs but average lactation length is 3.5 lactations....
What in the name of god teagasc and the icbf do be lauding about re ebi and the massive gains in the national herd is anyones guess but if you follow the money ai companies and teagasc farms are making a nice touch through selling dodgey at best genetics because the computer which is proven to be wonky said yes and the icing on the cake is reasearch farms get a heap of bulls into ai by playing the ebi bingo game

jaymla627

cosatron wrote: »

for the first few years i tried a bit of everything to see how they respond on our system as on the west coast, the cows are in 6 months a year and we found the cows that performed the best were the holstiens, we have some great cows by cgh, mxz, rof and axn and we have some lovely heifers coming now by twist, hzb yry and yks.

Cgh was a great bull, would still use him here if he could be got

cosatron

jaymla627 wrote: »

Cgh was a great bull, would still use him here if he could be got

we're still using him sparingly. got 20 straws of him last year. lovely animals

GrasstoMilk

cosatron wrote: »

Agreed Gawd, I think the mantra will change to produce more milk from less cows. Since the quota's were abolished we've increased production by almost 50% and we've only gone up 4 cows with the exact same system, the only change is I done the diy AI course and bred a Holstein cow that suits our system, medium sized, strong cows with high volume milk.

You haven't increased meal fed or diet they are fed?

Castlekeeper

jaymla627 wrote: »

Seen a bit of info re the massive progression in the national herd since 2000 average milk solids delivered in 2000 nationally per cow was 405kgs ms with the average cow doing 4.5 lactations, present day milk solids delivered is still 405kgs but average lactation length is 3.5 lactations....
What in the name of god teagasc and the icbf do be lauding about re ebi and the massive gains in the national herd is anyones guess but if you follow the money ai companies and teagasc farms are making a nice touch through selling dodgey at best genetics because the computer which is proven to be wonky said yes and the icing on the cake is reasearch farms get a heap of bulls into ai by playing the ebi bingo game

I'm no fan of the Irish dairy breeding scene, but might the lower lactation average be due to expanding herds?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Latest Lyons notes and the previous few as well.
https://www.ucd.ie/agfood/about/lyonsresearchfarm/systemsresearchherd-weeklynotes/

cosatron

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You haven't increased meal fed or diet they are fed?

No we haven't, to be honest the boss man is shocked with the way they are milking and were doing the exact same thing we done 15 years ago, and to show the worth of breeding, we haven't ploughed or limed a field in 20 years

straight

cosatron wrote: »

Agreed Gawd, I think the mantra will change to produce more milk from less cows. Since the quota's were abolished we've increased production by almost 50% and we've only gone up 4 cows with the exact same system, the only change is I done the diy AI course and bred a Holstein cow that suits our system, medium sized, strong cows with high volume milk.

I've been meaning to do the course for a while but people say only 30% are able to do it after the course. How did it work out for you?

Gawddawggonnit

Timmaay wrote: »

Would you milk through Xmas on a base price of 26c+vat?

I wouldn’t milk for any length of time for that money Tim.
The lowest it’s been here, in my time, has been 27.7 + vat, and that lasted for nearly two months iirc.

Gawddawggonnit

C0N0R wrote: »

What kind of peaks do you get? Calving interval? Herd average?? Intakes?

Peaks? We’d produce from minimum of 28L to 34L all year round.

Calving interval? 391days. But that’s subjective. I think that the average number of lactations would be more informative?

Herd average? Always 10k+. Last year 10233L.

Intakes? Between 24 and 28kgDm/hd/day depending on weather etc.

You line of questions are both interesting and informative Conor.

Gawddawggonnit

jaymla627 wrote: »

Seen a bit of info re the massive progression in the national herd since 2000 average milk solids delivered in 2000 nationally per cow was 405kgs ms with the average cow doing 4.5 lactations, present day milk solids delivered is still 405kgs but average lactation length is 3.5 lactations....

Jesus wept.
Have you that information to hand Jay?

If correct, it’s a fairly massive bombshell.

Gawddawggonnit

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You haven't increased meal fed or diet they are fed?

Your next question has to be ‘what base of production did you come from’, surely?

Gawddawggonnit

cosatron wrote: »

No we haven't, to be honest the boss man is shocked with the way they are milking and were doing the exact same thing we done 15 years ago, and to show the worth of breeding, we haven't ploughed or limed a field in 20 years

Excellent.

There’s a big target on your back now...:).

Gawddawggonnit

Castlekeeper wrote: »

I'm no fan of the Irish dairy breeding scene, but might the lower lactation average be due to expanding herds?

Why?
Surely expanding herds would try their best to hold onto cows for longer?

I’ve put in planning permission for an extra 80 cubicles...why would I cull harder??

cosatron

straight wrote: »

I've been meaning to do the course for a while but people say only 30% are able to do it after the course. How did it work out for you?

I did the genexel course. 3 days in a factory and 1 day theory, i was tentative the first year and we let the bull out after 4 weeks but got more confident as the year with on. To be honest it’s the best money we ever spent.

cosatron

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Your next question has to be ‘what base of production did you come from’, surely?

In all fairness the base was pretty low, the boss is a great stock man but wasn’t much into breeding. We averaged about 4400 liters per cow in 2011 and the way they are milking this year we should be hitting about 6500 per cow on average. I hoping through my process of breeding the best cows only that by 2025 I should be hitting 7500l per cow and I’ll be very happy with that as that would be the maximum I could get out of our system.

cosatron

And another point while I’m in the confessional box, the cows are average 7 to 8 lactations

GrasstoMilk

cosatron wrote: »

In all fairness the base was pretty low, the boss is a great stock man but wasn’t much into breeding. We averaged about 4400 liters per cow in 2011 and the way they are milking this year we should be hitting about 6500 per cow on average. I hoping through my process of breeding the best cows only that by 2025 I should be hitting 7500l per cow and I’ll be very happy with that as that would be the maximum I could get out of our system.

That's not 50% though cosatron,
Our herd was around the 400 to 450 kg solids mark in the early 2000s to when I came home in 2013. We'll do a nice bit over 500kg this year i reckon.
Av lactation is 3.1
It was very much a mature herd back before I started here

cosatron

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

That's not 50% though cosatron,
Our herd was around the 400 to 450 kg solids mark in the early 2000s to when I came home in 2013. We'll do a nice bit over 500kg this year i reckon.
Av lactation is 3.1
It was very much a mature herd back before I started here

Well when I went to school 50% of 4400l is 2200 and add that 4400l is 6600l so if you want to be exact it’s 47% I do everything liters cause I think kg solids is a load of teagasc horsesh*t

Gawddawggonnit

cosatron wrote: »

In all fairness the base was pretty low, the boss is a great stock man but wasn’t much into breeding. We averaged about 4400 liters per cow in 2011 and the way they are milking this year we should be hitting about 6500 per cow on average. I hoping through my process of breeding the best cows only that by 2025 I should be hitting 7500l per cow and I’ll be very happy with that as that would be the maximum I could get out of our system.

Good man.
Your a breath of fresh air.

Gawddawggonnit

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

That's not 50% though cosatron,
Our herd was around the 400 to 450 kg solids mark in the early 2000s to when I came home in 2013. We'll do a nice bit over 500kg this year i reckon.
Av lactation is 3.1
It was very much a mature herd back before I started here

There’s a film by Andrei Tarkovsky called Stalker that would be well worth a watch. I’m sure that it’s available with subtitles.
Nothing to do with stalking I’m afraid, but it does give some insight into perception.
Highly recommended.

Gawddawggonnit

cosatron wrote: »

And another point while I’m in the confessional box, the cows are average 7 to 8 lactations

Would you think that’s a result of the British Fr in the pedigree, or just a result of using the correct Holstein genetics?

whelan2

My Milker came back this morning after 10 weeks off for a big cancer operation. He was delighted to be back milking cows . They thought he had covid post op. So a happy news story

jaymla627

cosatron wrote: »

No we haven't, to be honest the boss man is shocked with the way they are milking and were doing the exact same thing we done 15 years ago, and to show the worth of breeding, we haven't ploughed or limed a field in 20 years

Done 670kgs ms delivered in 2019 here with another 20kgs ms fed to calves per cow , fully except to be hitting 730kgs plus delivered by 2022 once i stop going up in numbers and the herd matures, delivered 370kgs ms the first year we milked here in 2013....
Havent used a irish ai bull since i started breeding back in 13 , always thought it was a crock of s88te, when you see what the rest of the world is achieving in terms of solids delivered per cow and how the crops of bulls coming through keep improving year on year in all aspects and not just focusing on fertility youd wonder why more lads arent copping on to how their herds of cows genitically are pretty much at a standstill

cosatron

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Would you think that’s a result of the British Fr in the pedigree, or just a result of using the correct Holstein genetics?

A bit of both, I think fertility comes from management as much as genetics and Im a firm believer in that we spread very little nitrogen during the breeding season helps allot. We never spread urea on the paddocks but funnily enough we get a calendar of co-op every year and by the 1st of May it recommended to have 100 units of nitrogen spread on ‘grazing platform’ and we only had 2 bags of 18 6 12 spread.

mahoney_j

cosatron wrote: »

A bit of both, I think fertility comes from management as much as genetics and Im a firm believer in that we spread very little nitrogen during the breeding season helps allot. We never spread urea on the paddocks but funnily enough we get a calendar of co-op every year and by the 1st of May it recommended to have 100 units of nitrogen spread on ‘grazing platform’ and we only had 2 bags of 18 6 12 spread.

What’s your Sr on cow ground ???,at 4 cows/he from early April once all calved and often goes up to 7/8.feetluser blanket spread up to late April then follow cows with 20 units after each grazing

cosatron

mahoney_j wrote: »

What’s your Sr on cow ground ???,at 4 cows/he from early April once all calved and often goes up to 7/8.feetluser blanket spread up to late April then follow cows with 20 units after each grazing

Stocking rate is 3.5 to 4 with a 28 day rotation and if it gets 2 strong we pre mow. Now it’s worth noting that we never have the cows out until after the 22 of March and spread first fertilizer after the first grazing and while there on the first grazing we buffer them with silage while milking and when they go out, they stay out.

mahoney_j

With that then yes it’s madness for u to have 100 units out before May 80/90 is the sweet spit here but I’m out within reason every chance I get from early February cows buffered with silage till late May and will average 5/6 kg feed to yield.also on a 28 day rotation and your premiering grass quality will suffer

cute geoge

cosatron wrote: »

Stocking rate is 3.5 to 4 with a 28 day rotation and if it gets 2 strong we pre mow. Now it’s worth noting that we never have the cows out until after the 22 of March and spread first fertilizer after the first grazing and while there on the first grazing we buffer them with silage while milking and when they go out, they stay out.

I would call that top drawer management in that the way to make money ,never have to spread fert. here either until after the 1st round but I do spread a fair share of my slurry after closing up the paddocks for the winter of course again against Teagasc advice but if i have to spread it any other time I have to pay a contractor and in the fall of the year I am able to tip away myself and it shows in any field I dont spread again contrast to people say their is no result that time of year!!

mahoney_j

cute geoge wrote: »

I would call that top drawer management in that the way to make money ,never have to spread fert. here either until after the 1st round but I do spread a fair share of my slurry after closing up the paddocks for the winter of course again against Teagasc advice but if i have to spread it any other time I have to pay a contractor and in the fall of the year I am able to tip away myself and it shows in any field I dont spread again contrast to people say their is no result that time of year!!

Tbf spring or sept October I find always best time for slurry but never worth the risk leaving tanks full till late in year as weather can turn and u can’t spread after 15 October .all ranks empty here bar parlour washings and I’d say 90% of it contractor spread with t shoe I have my own 2500 gallon tank but wouldn’t have time to spread when it needs to be spread .t shoe super job and contractor costs allowable against tax so no brainier

cosatron

cute geoge wrote: »

I would call that top drawer management in that the way to make money ,never have to spread fert. here either until after the 1st round but I do spread a fair share of my slurry after closing up the paddocks for the winter of course again against Teagasc advice but if i have to spread it any other time I have to pay a contractor and in the fall of the year I am able to tip away myself and it shows in any field I dont spread again contrast to people say their is no result that time of year!!

Same as that. We try to get slurry or farmyard manure out the back of the year and let it work away for winter, another thing we do here is put a blanket spread of 24-2.5-10 out on the last day of fertilizer season and it works away for winter even after the cows are pulled in the 1st of November

longgonesilver

Do you have wet land of just live in a high rainfall area?

Wildsurfer

cosatron wrote: »

Well when I went to school 50% of 4400l is 2200 and add that 4400l is 6600l so if you want to be exact it’s 47% I do everything liters cause I think kg solids is a load of teagasc horsesh*t

You cant really blame Teagasc for this one, it is after all how your co-op determines how much you get paid for your milk...

Millionaire only not

jaymla627 wrote: »

Done 670kgs ms delivered in 2019 here with another 20kgs ms fed to calves per cow , fully except to be hitting 730kgs plus delivered by 2022 once i stop going up in numbers and the herd matures, delivered 370kgs ms the first year we milked here in 2013....
Havent used a irish ai bull since i started breeding back in 13 , always thought it was a crock of s88te, when you see what the rest of the world is achieving in terms of solids delivered per cow and how the crops of bulls coming through keep improving year on year in all aspects and not just focusing on fertility youd wonder why more lads arent copping on to how their herds of cows genitically are pretty much at a standstill

There impressive figures, u might tell us bit more about blood in them and what kind of meal feeding , how early u get out .
I have often brought cows from good land with impressive figures but theyd never do it here as we get out too late on average.