Dairy Chitchat 3

GrasstoMilk

cosatron wrote: »

Well when I went to school 50% of 4400l is 2200 and add that 4400l is 6600l so if you want to be exact it’s 47% I do everything liters cause I think kg solids is a load of teagasc horsesh*t

Haha yes my bad. Realised that after I replied!
Sounds like you're doing a good job.
I've always found here ours cows never start really milking until they get onto 2nd round grass. We fed them well this spring and they weren't out if the weather was ****e but the minute they got 2nd round grass they started sending the litres.

cosatron

longgonesilver wrote: »

Do you have wet land of just live in a high rainfall area?

Both unfortunately

cosatron

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Haha yes my bad. Realised that after I replied!
Sounds like you're doing a good job.
I've always found here ours cows never start really milking until they get onto 2nd round grass. We fed them well this spring and they weren't out if the weather was ****e but the minute they got 2nd round grass they started sending the litres.

Same as that, we buffer for the first grazing and then let them at it for the second round. We hit 30l per cow on the second round this year for the first time ever. The boss was over the moon.

jaymla627

Millionaire only not wrote: »

There impressive figures, u might tell us bit more about blood in them and what kind of meal feeding , how early u get out .
I have often brought cows from good land with impressive figures but theyd never do it here as we get out too late on average.

Majority of stock now are semex bred, alot of flame, boldi armour, peresus,neptune, yamasaka heifers coming through, older cows would have alot of oman/shottle bloodlines heavily used bulls been jabir, spock,lavaman, doberman, classic and acres 8....
Wet farm here so on average cows would be in fulltime 140 days a year, their would be around a ton of meal going in through parlour and another ton of blend through tmr, cows are buffer fed year round, from late march to end of october around 8kgs of dm intake is bufferfed with beet/silage used with 3-4 kgs of meal....
Indoors fully housed diet would be 11kgs dm silage 6kgs concentrate, 5kgs dm beet, and a 1kg straw on average, maize is been contract grown this year to with the plan being to buffer cows with maize from april to october and use beet from nov to march

GrasstoMilk

jaymla627 wrote: »

Majority of stock now are semex bred, alot of flame, boldi armour, peresus,neptune, yamasaka heifers coming through, older cows would have alot of oman/shottle bloodlines heavily used bulls been jabir, spock,lavaman, doberman, classic and acres 8....
Wet farm here so on average cows would be in fulltime 140 days a year, their would be around a ton of meal going in through parlour and another ton of blend through tmr, cows are buffer fed year round, from late march to end of october around 8kgs of dm intake is bufferfed with beet/silage used with 3-4 kgs of meal....
Indoors fully housed diet would be 11kgs dm silage 6kgs concentrate, 5kgs dm beet, and a 1kg straw on average, maize is been contract grown this year to with the plan being to buffer cows with maize from april to october and use beet from nov to march

As a matter of interest Jay how much more have you out of all that feeding over a guy doing 530/540 kgs of solids with a tonne of meal fed and grazing grass.

At 4€/kg of MS you have about 520 e more per cow with 130 kgs ms more sent but you wouldnt be long eating into that between the extra tonne of meal / beet/silage/diet feeder/running costs etc

Timmaay

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

As a matter of interest Jay how much more have you out of all that feeding over a guy doing 530/540 kgs of solids with a tonne of meal fed and grazing grass.

At 4€/kg of MS you have about 520 e more per cow with 130 kgs ms more sent but you wouldnt be long eating into that between the extra tonne of meal / beet/silage/diet feeder/running costs etc

What price do you put on the running around like a blue arsed fly also hmmm.

mahoney_j

What 2018 ,current spell crystal ball gazing looking down the road with nitrates ,reduced Sr etc etc grass to milk and all that as currently preached is not going to cut the mustard tegasc need to adapt (don’t think they are )and farmers need to change more has to be got from every he and every cow and systems like jays that some seem to think is bonkers will need looking at seriously .coops despite having millions pumped in are still running very close to or beyond capacity in May June period and vastly underused over winter .

jaymla627

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

As a matter of interest Jay how much more have you out of all that feeding over a guy doing 530/540 kgs of solids with a tonne of meal fed and grazing grass.

At 4€/kg of MS you have about 520 e more per cow with 130 kgs ms more sent but you wouldnt be long eating into that between the extra tonne of meal / beet/silage/diet feeder/running costs etc

Not in the middle of the golden vale here so the above example of 530kgs Ms delivered of a ton of meal and grass isn’t really applicable, a good year here is where cows only have to do 5 months of the year on a full tmr diet, in 2018 was nearer 7 months, last year all cows where housed middle of October so it worked out at 6 months of a fully housed diet.....
All bills and commitments are been met, wage taken, housing and facilities now able to cater for 200 cows and followers, guts of 3000 a cow spent to achieve this the past 8 years, with total debt per cow running at under a 1000 a cow and not a cent drew in the form of sfp payment our tams grant to fund it, the bank doesn’t have the deeds to a acre of land here either....
It’s might be hard to fathom that a system like mine is actually profitable and won’t lead to bankruptcy contrary to all the warnings from the teagasc spin machine....
By right if I was doing the job right I’d have given the man next door the 300 a acre he wanted for his 150 acre block of poor to average land, id have mortgaged the farm for the million plus loan of the bank needed for the 60 bail rotary and sheds, and have 400 high ebi cows running around the place wondering where why the 90% grass bases diet that they should be on never transpired like my teagasc advisor lauded to me about

Say my name

The trouble is no system is better than another. They just are their own system.

What's practiced abroad are confinement systems where nitrates are shipped in through feed and shipped out through slurry.
Maize abounds. And soil washes from maize ground during the winter and into the waterways. Creating aquatic deadzones.

There's solutions for every system.

Panch18

jaymla627 wrote: »

Not in the middle of the golden vale here so the above example of 530kgs Ms delivered of a ton of meal and grass isn’t really applicable, a good year here is where cows only have to do 5 months of the year on a full tmr diet, in 2018 was nearer 7 months, last year all cows where housed middle of October so it worked out at 6 months of a fully housed diet.....
All bills and commitments are been met, wage taken, housing and facilities now able to cater for 200 cows and followers, guts of 3000 a cow spent to achieve this the past 8 years, with total debt per cow running at under a 1000 a cow and not a cent drew in the form of sfp payment our tams grant to fund it, the bank doesn’t have the deeds to a acre of land here either....
It’s might be hard to fathom that a system like mine is actually profitable and won’t lead to bankruptcy contrary to all the warnings from the teagasc spin machine....
By right if I was doing the job right I’d have given the man next door the 300 a acre he wanted for his 150 acre block of poor to average land, id have mortgaged the farm for the million plus loan of the bank needed for the 60 bail rotary and sheds, and have 400 high ebi cows running around the place wondering where why the 90% grass bases diet that they should be on never transpired like my teagasc advisor lauded to me about

What's the general compusition of your TMR diet? are you growing most of it yourself or buying everything in?

Panch18

Say my name wrote: »

The trouble is no system is better than another. They just are their own system.

What's practiced abroad are confinement systems where nitrates are shipped in through feed and shipped out through slurry.
Maize abounds. And soil washes from maize ground during the winter and into the waterways. Creating aquatic deadzones.

There's solutions for every system.

without a shadow of doubt, a shoe won't fit every foot

Mooooo

Not having a pop Jay, but you've said before you are well over derogation levels of n and that as they can't fine your sfp you work away anyway, that's unlikely to be sustainable going forward either. What are your feed costs/ L?

Gawddawggonnit

cosatron wrote: »

A bit of both, I think fertility comes from management as much as genetics and Im a firm believer in that we spread very little nitrogen during the breeding season helps allot. We never spread urea on the paddocks but funnily enough we get a calendar of co-op every year and by the 1st of May it recommended to have 100 units of nitrogen spread on ‘grazing platform’ and we only had 2 bags of 18 6 12 spread.

How much nitrogen would you use?
Are you in derogation?

Gawddawggonnit

Say my name wrote: »

The trouble is no system is better than another. They just are their own system.

What's practiced abroad are confinement systems where nitrates are shipped in through feed and shipped out through slurry.
Maize abounds. And soil washes from maize ground during the winter and into the waterways. Creating aquatic deadzones.

There's solutions for every system.

Highly illegal to leave any ground without a cover crop over the winter. Not only is it illegal but stupid not to take 4-7tdm/ha of a cash crop to feed livestock...or plant a crop of wwheat/wbarley/wosr etc.

You’re reading too much on the interweb again.

Here’s a good guide on how to go broke...how many of these boxes do you tick?

HOW TO GO BROKE FARMING
1. Grow only one crop.
2. Keep no livestock.
3. Regard chickens and a garden
as nuisances.
4. Take everything from the so1
and return nothing.
5. Don't stop gullies or grow covei
crops-let the top soil wash away, then
you will have "bottom" land.
6. Don't plan your farm operations
It's hard work thinking-trust to luck
7. Regard your woodland as you
would a coal mine, cut every tree, sell
the timber and wear the cleared land
out cultivating it in corn.
8. Hold fast to the idea that the
methods of farming employed by you
grandfather are good enough for you
9. Be independent-don't joln with
your neighbors in any torm of co
operation.
Mortgage your farm for every
dollar it will stand to buy things you
would have the cash to buy if you tol
10.lowed a good system of farming.
Division of Extension, University of
Tennessee.

cosatron

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

How much nitrogen would you use?
Are you in derogation?

as turn out is around 22 march, we usually go with a bag to the acre after every grazing so as our rotation is 28 days that's about 6 or 7 bags of 18-6-12 or 24-2.5-10 to acre for the year and slurry on paddocks in October weather permitting so roughly around 126 to 150 units per acre. not in derogation, we export the majority of our slurry to come in under 170.

Say my name

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Highly illegal to leave any ground without a cover crop over the winter. Not only is it illegal but stupid not to take 4-7tdm/ha of a cash crop to feed livestock...or plant a crop of wwheat/wbarley/wosr etc.

You’re reading too much on the interweb again.

Here’s a good guide on how to go broke...how many of these boxes do you tick?

HOW TO GO BROKE FARMING
1. Grow only one crop.
2. Keep no livestock.
3. Regard chickens and a garden
as nuisances.
4. Take everything from the so1
and return nothing.
5. Don't stop gullies or grow covei
crops-let the top soil wash away, then
you will have "bottom" land.
6. Don't plan your farm operations
It's hard work thinking-trust to luck
7. Regard your woodland as you
would a coal mine, cut every tree, sell
the timber and wear the cleared land
out cultivating it in corn.
8. Hold fast to the idea that the
methods of farming employed by you
grandfather are good enough for you
9. Be independent-don't joln with
your neighbors in any torm of co
operation.
Mortgage your farm for every
dollar it will stand to buy things you
would have the cash to buy if you tol
10.lowed a good system of farming.
Division of Extension, University of
Tennessee.

Too many words there for me to read on the interweb.

One way not to go broke farming.

Do your own thing, don't worry what the neighbours think, a farm is not a golf course, your business is your business and no one else's, take life as handy as you get it.
(There's more than one way there.)
- Say my name. Boards.

Mooooo

cosatron wrote: »

as turn out is around 22 march, we usually go with a bag to the acre after every grazing so as our rotation is 28 days that's about 6 or 7 bags of 18-6-12 or 24-2.5-10 to acre for the year and slurry on paddocks in October weather permitting so roughly around 126 to 150 units per acre. not in derogation, we export the majority of our slurry to come in under 170.

Would using more of your own slurry not be cheaper than buying in compounds, and keep you closer to the 170? Being below 170 won't make any odds soon as all will be under the same rules anyway

cosatron

Mooooo wrote: »

Would using more of your own slurry not be cheaper than buying in compounds, and keep you closer to the 170? Being below 170 won't make any odds soon as all will be under the same rules anyway

We have to export slurry to comply with the 170kg as we are overstocked according to the powers that be. Honestly I don't like spreading slurry during the grazing period on the paddocks for the cows.

Mooooo

cosatron wrote: »

We have to export slurry to comply with the 170kg as we are overstocked according to the powers that be. Honestly I don't like spreading slurry during the grazing period on the paddocks for the cows.

I get that but whatbinmeanr above is it's as easy to apply for derogation and work that way as soon people below the 170 will have to do the same things anyway. Do ye take silage off yer own ground? Focus the slurry on that

mahoney_j

cosatron wrote: »

We have to export slurry to comply with the 170kg as we are overstocked according to the powers that be. Honestly I don't like spreading slurry during the grazing period on the paddocks for the cows.

If doing that to stay under 170’u might as well be in dero as you’ll practically have to follow dero regulations anyway .also at 8 bags of 18s per acre and think u said your stocked at 3 cows per he or above how are u working around spreading so much p .my p allowance is currrntly a big fat zero

cosatron

mahoney_j wrote: »

If doing that to stay under 170’u might as well be in dero as you’ll practically have to follow dero regulations anyway .also at 8 bags of 18s per acre and think u said your stocked at 3 cows per he or above how are u working around spreading so much p .my p allowance is currrntly a big fat zero

we've being exporting slurry for the last 15 years and we are keeping the wolves from the door and if it ain't broken why fix it.

cosatron

Mooooo wrote: »

I get that but whatbinmeanr above is it's as easy to apply for derogation and work that way as soon people below the 170 will have to do the same things anyway. Do ye take silage off yer own ground? Focus the slurry on that

we buy in the silage and no interest in dero as exported slurry has worked a treat for the last 15 years and it keeps the wolves from the door. The less paper work the better.

Timmaay

For dairy farmers on any sort of decent ground it's an absolute no brainer to go into derogation, I'm far from pushing the boundaries here in terms of growing every single last blade of grass, and I still find myself in around the 200kgn/ha. 170 would be a backwards step altogether, and the new dairycow N figure of 89kg will basically drop that back to 160

cosatron

Jesus lads why do ye find it so hard to comprehend that I'm not in dero. I've already laid out the massive gains we've made through breeding on a landlocked farm with no room for expansion. What's going to happen to ye when dero is eventually scrapped and it will be scrapped. I know that when I cant export slurry I just have to drop 5 cows and get out of keeping dry stock.

mahoney_j

cosatron wrote: »

Jesus lads why do ye find it so hard to comprehend that I'm not in dero. I've already laid out the massive gains we've made through breeding on a landlocked farm with no room for expansion. What's going to happen to ye when dero is eventually scrapped and it will be scrapped. I know that when I cant export slurry I just have to drop 5 cows and get out of keeping dry stock.

No doubt your not in dero but your exporting slurry to stay out of it regulations now mean your more/less treated as a farmer in it you might as well go in now and you can stock higher and not export a valueablennutrient is all your slurry spread by less ??.with a high Sr u seem to be spreading more p on paper than allowed as at a high Sr and cows not out till later most likely good wedge feed going in

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

What 2018 ,current spell crystal ball gazing looking down the road with nitrates ,reduced Sr etc etc grass to milk and all that as currently preached is not going to cut the mustard tegasc need to adapt (don’t think they are )and farmers need to change more has to be got from every he and every cow and systems like jays that some seem to think is bonkers will need looking at seriously .coops despite having millions pumped in are still running very close to or beyond capacity in May June period and vastly underused over winter .

The quickest, most environmentally and efficient way to deal with peak is for less water in the milk

cosatron

mahoney_j wrote: »

No doubt your not in dero but your exporting slurry to stay out of it regulations now mean your more/less treated as a farmer in it you might as well go in now and you can stock higher and not export a valueablennutrient is all your slurry spread by less ??.with a high Sr u seem to be spreading more p on paper than allowed as at a high Sr and cows not out till later most likely good wedge feed going in

But jay that's the point I was making at the start, I breed for more milk so that I can have less cows so why would I want a higher stocking rate.
I'm happy with the numbers were at and am prepared to milk less cows when the sh*t hits the fan with nitrates. I disagree with you regarding the usage of p, the cows at present are very solid in there dung and have good grass ahead of them. Do you not think that every time they graze, they take some of the nutrients out of the ground.

mahoney_j

Keepgrowing wrote: »

The quickest, most environmentally and efficient way to deal with peak is for less water in the milk

Majority of suppliers are spring calving this leading to a peak for few weeks may June .watery milk ain’t the issue it’s the volume of milk we had one or 2 breakdowns over last few weeks and drivers were stuck for hours waiting to unload very little was able to be directed elsewhere .luckiky just short term .we as suppliers are subbing all this stainless we need to see better use made of it year round

thisyear

cosatron wrote: »

But jay that's the point I was making at the start, I breed for more milk so that I can have less cows so why would I want a higher stocking rate.
I'm happy with the numbers were at and am prepared to milk less cows when the sh*t hits the fan with nitrates. I disagree with you regarding the usage of p, the cows at present are very solid in there dung and have good grass ahead of them. Do you not think that every time they graze, they take some of the nutrients out of the ground.

What makes you think derogation is going to go?

mahoney_j

cosatron wrote: »

But jay that's the point I was making at the start, I breed for more milk so that I can have less cows so why would I want a higher stocking rate.
I'm happy with the numbers were at and am prepared to milk less cows when the sh*t hits the fan with nitrates. I disagree with you regarding the usage of p, the cows at present are very solid in there dung and have good grass ahead of them. Do you not think that every time they graze, they take some of the nutrients out of the ground.

Missing the point re p you spread a lot ,are highly stocked ,feed good shot meal .im all these in dero and allowed spread no chemical p .why not hold your slurry (valuable input)and just go into dero there’s actually nothing to be afraid of in it

Buford T. Justice XIX

mahoney_j wrote: »

Majority of suppliers are spring calving this leading to a peak for few weeks may June .watery milk ain’t the issue it’s the volume of milk we had one or 2 breakdowns over last few weeks and drivers were stuck for hours waiting to unload very little was able to be directed elsewhere .luckiky just short term .we as suppliers are subbing all this stainless we need to see better use made of it year round

We would have similar issues here with waits for drivers waiting to unload, even with unused intake points and empty silos that could hold the milk.

One of the reasons seems to be how cheap it is to store the milk in the tankers waiting to unload compared to using available storage resources or investing in additional storage. the reasons the drivers were given is that they didn't know if they were getting a tanker from another factory and so kept a reservoir free for it and slowed down the intake for all the other drivers. The simpler solution would seem to let the other taker driver wait for a free reservoir later in the evening rather than all the other drivers being delayed?

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

For dairy farmers on any sort of decent ground it's an absolute no brainer to go into derogation, I'm far from pushing the boundaries here in terms of growing every single last blade of grass, and I still find myself in around the 200kgn/ha. 170 would be a backwards step altogether, and the new dairycow N figure of 89kg will basically drop that back to 160

If i was in derogation here by the letter of the law, id have to concrete 2.5km of roadways with storage tanks dotted along the length of it to catch any run-off, couldnt put a water trough in 5 fields (30 acres of grazing block) either as no section in these fields is more then 25 metres from a water source....
wouldnt have great land to be fair though

straight

mahoney_j wrote: »

Missing the point re p you spread a lot ,are highly stocked ,feed good shot meal .im all these in dero and allowed spread no chemical p .why not hold your slurry (valuable input)and just go into dero there’s actually nothing to be afraid of in it

Ya, nothing to be afraid of in derogation. Just a bit of administration for teagasc is all. Teagasc guys tell me the rush of guys coming in exporting slurry are the worst ever and they are the guys the department are going to crack down on first because they believe that in reality the slurry often goes nowhere.

mahoney_j

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

We would have similar issues here with waits for drivers waiting to unload, even with unused intake points and empty silos that could hold the milk.

One of the reasons seems to be how cheap it is to store the milk in the tankers waiting to unload compared to using available storage resources or investing in additional storage. the reasons the drivers were given is that they didn't know if they were getting a tanker from another factory and so kept a reservoir free for it and slowed down the intake for all the other drivers. The simpler solution would seem to let the other taker driver wait for a free reservoir later in the evening rather than all the other drivers being delayed?

The wait for drovers I was outlining was down to a plant breakdown ,spare capacity and breakdowns are something that’s is tight and not wanted

Wildsurfer

jaymla627 wrote: »

If i was in derogation here by the letter of the law, id have to concrete 2.5km of roadways with storage tanks dotted along the length of it to catch any run-off, couldnt put a water trough in 5 fields (30 acres of grazing block) either as no section in these fields is more then 25 metres from a water source....
wouldnt have great land to be fair though

Now I know you dont really believe that you would be forced to take any of those actions... nobody has to concrete roadways, therefore no need to collect run off. And you really think you would be penalised for putting a water trough at furthest point from water source, seriously, less of the dramatics.

awaywithyou

jaymla627 wrote: »

Not in the middle of the golden vale here so the above example of 530kgs Ms delivered of a ton of meal and grass isn’t really applicable, a good year here is where cows only have to do 5 months of the year on a full tmr diet, in 2018 was nearer 7 months, last year all cows where housed middle of October so it worked out at 6 months of a fully housed diet.....
All bills and commitments are been met, wage taken, housing and facilities now able to cater for 200 cows and followers, guts of 3000 a cow spent to achieve this the past 8 years, with total debt per cow running at under a 1000 a cow and not a cent drew in the form of sfp payment our tams grant to fund it, the bank doesn’t have the deeds to a acre of land here either....
It’s might be hard to fathom that a system like mine is actually profitable and won’t lead to bankruptcy contrary to all the warnings from the teagasc spin machine....
By right if I was doing the job right I’d have given the man next door the 300 a acre he wanted for his 150 acre block of poor to average land, id have mortgaged the farm for the million plus loan of the bank needed for the 60 bail rotary and sheds, and have 400 high ebi cows running around the place wondering where why the 90% grass bases diet that they should be on never transpired like my teagasc advisor lauded to me about

Very impressive stuff there lad... one thing you havent mentioned is labour... ur shoving towards 200cows... i doubt if ur carrying out all the duties associated with a herd that size on ur own or mayb u are??

know of a chap who went from 450kgs milk solids/cow to 620 in 3years by going away from irish bulls and using all WWS bulls... same guy now has like Jay set a target of achieving 750kgs ms/cow

mahoney_j

awaywithyou wrote: »

Very impressive stuff there lad... one thing you havent mentioned is labour... ur shoving towards 200cows... i doubt if ur carrying out all the duties associated with a herd that size on ur own or mayb u are??

know of a chap who went from 450kgs milk solids/cow to 620 in 3years by going away from irish bulls and using all WWS bulls... same guy now has like Jay set a target of achieving 750kgs ms/cow

And an ass load of feeding and most likely milking thru winter

alps

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

We would have similar issues here with waits for drivers waiting to unload, even with unused intake points and empty silos that could hold the milk.

One of the reasons seems to be how cheap it is to store the milk in the tankers waiting to unload compared to using available storage resources or investing in additional storage. the reasons the drivers were given is that they didn't know if they were getting a tanker from another factory and so kept a reservoir free for it and slowed down the intake for all the other drivers. The simpler solution would seem to let the other taker driver wait for a free reservoir later in the evening rather than all the other drivers being delayed?

And of course, milk collection drivers are one of the only group of HGV drivers that dont have to use a tachograph..

Base price

alps wrote: »

And of course, milk collection drivers are one of the privileged group of HGV drivers that dont have to use a tachograph..

Fixed that for ye.
https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Professional%20Drivers/Exemptions%20and%20derogations%20from%20the%20EU%20Tachograph%20and%20driver.pdf

Reggie.

alps wrote: »

And of course, milk collection drivers are one of the only group of HGV drivers that dont have to use a tachograph..

Dont forget us

jaymla627

mahoney_j wrote: »

And an ass load of feeding and most likely milking thru winter

Parlor has run 365 here twice a day the past 5 years, never understood lads getting so hung up on having to have the Xmas off from milking , in all fairness your not going to hit 700 plus kilos of milk solids delivered a cow and be turning off the parlor for a few weeks every year ffs...

Castlekeeper

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Why?
Surely expanding herds would try their best to hold onto cows for longer?

I’ve put in planning permission for an extra 80 cubicles...why would I cull harder??

I don't know, why should you?

Just to illustrate an Irish expansion scenario of a
100 cow herd going to 200 cows.

Year 1 - add 40 heifers, cull 10 cows =130
Year 2 - add 50 heifers, cull 15 cows =165
Year 3 - add 50 heifers, cull 15 cows =200

Do you think the average age of the herd has gone up or down as now c.65% of herd is under 3 lactation's in year 3?

Water John

So your cows average 7/8 lactations?

awaywithyou

mahoney_j wrote: »

And an ass load of feeding and most likely milking thru winter

U know him

awaywithyou

Castlekeeper wrote: »

I don't know, why should you?

Just to illustrate an Irish expansion scenario of a
100 cow herd going to 200 cows.

Year 1 - add 40 heifers, cull 10 cows =130
Year 2 - add 50 heifers, cull 15 cows =165
Year 3 - add 50 heifers, cull 15 cows =200

Do you think the average age of the herd has gone up or down as now c.65% of herd is under 3 lactation's in year 3?

Ur in dreamland if u think it’s that simple.....

Castlekeeper

Water John wrote: »

So your cows average 7/8 lactations?

I doubt it, but as I'm up anyway I'll work it out for you as I'm curious myself.
Btw I don't get the basis of your question or its relevance to my example of why an expanding herd would have a lower average age than a static one.

Water John

Well 10 culls is 10% of 100 cows. Thus 9/10 lactations.
15 cows is 15% of 100 cows. Thus 6/7 lactations.

Castlekeeper

Castlekeeper wrote: »

I doubt it, but as I'm up anyway I'll work it out for you as I'm curious myself.
Btw I don't get the basis of your question or its relevance to my example of why an expanding herd would have a lower average age than a static one.

4.64 lactations here.

Castlekeeper

awaywithyou wrote: »

Ur in dreamland if u think it’s that simple.....

Indeed dreamland is where we should all be at this hour of the night, but that aside have you a point or do you think that expanding a herd has no effect on the average age if that herd?
I'm also interested in the relevant significant complexities you're aware of that I haven't woken up to.

Water John

I just view the cull rate as unrealistic and thus giving a false progression. Everyone would wish those numbers but I think it's unrealistic to expect.