Dairy Chitchat 3

Say my name

richie123 wrote: »

Well it's a good one now.are we being hypocritical calling for Brazilian s to stop deforestation when that's exactly what we've being doing for the last 100 year and more.
I know my own father cleared out farm which is great farmland now ...but it's was trees scub etc 50 60 year ago.

Try 5000 years ago here.

https://twitter.com/VoxHib/status/1273290097077747717?s=20

The poor ole Mesolithic people here were hunting and gathering away here till Neolithic dairy farmers from England and France decided this was a grand country to set up shop.
Their field and paddock system for their cows are buried under thousands of years of peat in the Ceide fields in Mayo.
Even just in the recent past pre famine every bit of ground was being farmed. There's lazy beds that were used for potato production still visible on Bing maps on the Blackstairs.
It all went a bit south then from emigration and deaths.

On Brazil there's whole communities of native Brazilians who never studied in Cornel agricultural university living quite happily on the native ecosystem.
Of course they know crap and should be driving a John Deere and paying taxes.

cosatron

over on the farming forum, there is an ongoing discussion about the response of grass growth in an ever changing climate and i thought id open up here. Some are of the opinion that the older ley permanent pastures are more capable of growing in a stressful environment compared to land that is reseeded more frequently. On a personally level our grass growth is going ok but all our pastures are well established on heavy soil, we also has no issue in 2018 but we have no reseeded paddocks for a comparison. Does anyone notice a difference between old leys and new leys.

mahoney_j

cosatron wrote: »

over on the farming forum, there is an ongoing discussion about the response of grass growth in an ever changing climate and i thought id open up here. Some are of the opinion that the older ley permanent pastures are more capable of growing in a stressful environment compared to land that is reseeded more frequently. On a personally level our grass growth is going ok but all our pastures are well established on heavy soil, we also has no issue in 2018 but we have no reseeded paddocks for a comparison. Does anyone notice a difference between old leys and new leys.

Can’t say I do but certain varieties like tyrella which grow well early and late in year is absolute ****e this time of year goes stemmy quicker and not as palatable especially mid season on older v newer grasses and Fertliser /growth rates think an afull lot has to do with soil ph and indexes and soil structure

Say my name

cosatron wrote: »

over on the farming forum, there is an ongoing discussion about the response of grass growth in an ever changing climate and i thought id open up here. Some are of the opinion that the older ley permanent pastures are more capable of growing in a stressful environment compared to land that is reseeded more frequently. On a personally level our grass growth is going ok but all our pastures are well established on heavy soil, we also has no issue in 2018 but we have no reseeded paddocks for a comparison. Does anyone notice a difference between old leys and new leys.

I had a fella called in yesterday with a spade. He was kind of asking the same question.
He jumped on his spade in the paddocks and showed me how the roots on mine were going down the full length of the spade. He remarked there's places where they are very shallow.
You could see the worms then all shut down and rolled in a ball from the dry weather.
The rain from the night before was gone down about three inches.

I'd have no qualms about reseeding. It's the management after that decides how that plant develops.

Birdnuts

cosatron wrote: »

over on the farming forum, there is an ongoing discussion about the response of grass growth in an ever changing climate and i thought id open up here. Some are of the opinion that the older ley permanent pastures are more capable of growing in a stressful environment compared to land that is reseeded more frequently. On a personally level our grass growth is going ok but all our pastures are well established on heavy soil, we also has no issue in 2018 but we have no reseeded paddocks for a comparison. Does anyone notice a difference between old leys and new leys.

Good article on all this in this weeks farming indo - shows that more species mixed established leys being far more climate robust and healthy for stock compared to monoculture PRG

Birdnuts

richie123 wrote: »

Well it's a good one now.are we being hypocritical calling for Brazilian s to stop deforestation when that's exactly what we've being doing for the last 100 year and more.
I know my own father cleared out farm which is great farmland now ...but it's was trees scub etc 50 60 year ago.

Extrapolating what can be achieved on our soils compared to rainforest ones in Brazil is like comparing apples with oranges in that rainforest soils are much older then our ice-age soil structures, meaning that once cleared of natural vegetation, they quickly loose nutrients and erode under heavy tropical rain and intense sunshine. Which means you have to keep clearing trees until none are left and the land is left barren and lifeless.

richie123

Birdnuts wrote: »

Extrapolating what can be achieved on our soils compared to rainforest ones in Brazil is like comparing apples with oranges in that rainforest soils are much older then our ice-age soil structures, meaning that once cleared of natural vegetation, they quickly loose nutrients and erode under heavy tropical rain and intense sunshine. Which means you have to keep clearing trees until none are left and the land is left barren and lifeless.

Unfortunately that won't stop them from clearing more forestry.

Birdnuts

richie123 wrote: »

Unfortunately that won't stop them from clearing more forestry.

I know - and thats why I'm hoping Bolsanaro's inept handling of the growing Covid crisis and family corruption cases gets him kicked out of power sooner rather then later, for the sake of the rainforest, its native tribes and the planet in general

yosemitesam1

cosatron wrote: »

over on the farming forum, there is an ongoing discussion about the response of grass growth in an ever changing climate and i thought id open up here. Some are of the opinion that the older ley permanent pastures are more capable of growing in a stressful environment compared to land that is reseeded more frequently. On a personally level our grass growth is going ok but all our pastures are well established on heavy soil, we also has no issue in 2018 but we have no reseeded paddocks for a comparison. Does anyone notice a difference between old leys and new leys.

Anyone calling for the return of s23?
The original ryegrass cultivars were really just good wild strains pulled from wild population's and any off types filtered out. Everything since has been optimised towards doing 2 good years under the recommended test protocol as just like ebi figures, it's the figures that are most important not long term functionality under differing conditions

alps

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Anyone calling for the return of s23?
The original ryegrass cultivars were really just good wild strains pulled from wild population's and any off types filtered out. Everything since has been optimised towards doing 2 good years under the recommended test protocol as just like ebi figures, it's the figures that are most important not long term functionality under differing conditions

We have most of the farm here reseeded over the last 15 years but there are still 3 paddocks out of 27 that have not been done in 50 years.

No visitor has ever been able to point them out either from a walk around or from growth graphs..

GrasstoMilk

alps wrote: »

We have most of the farm here reseeded over the last 15 years but there are still 3 paddocks out of 27 that have not been done in 50 years.

No visitor has ever been able to point them out either from a walk around or from growth graphs..

Is 27 paddocks not alot of paddocks?.

straight

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Is 27 paddocks not alot of paddocks?.

Well I'm a small farmer and I have 32 paddocks.

whelan2

straight wrote: »

Well I'm a small farmer and I have 32 paddocks.

Aren't you great

straight

whelan2 wrote: »

Aren't you great

Well I was thinking I must be wrong because I see the big guys have huge fields. I don't know but it works for me. 3 acre paddocks for 80 cows?

cosatron

straight wrote: »

Well I was thinking I must be wrong because I see the big guys have huge fields. I don't know but it works for me. 3 acre paddocks for 80 cows?

are the paddocks 24 hour or 36 hour. we have 26 day rotation, some paddocks are days only and the majority are 24 hour paddocks 1.5 acres for 50 but 54 this year cause we are greedy dairy farmers

straight

cosatron wrote: »

are the paddocks 24 hour or 36 hour. we have 26 day rotation, some paddocks are days only and the majority are 24 hour paddocks 1.5 acres for 50 but 54 this year cause we are greedy dairy farmers

2 strip wires all year round here. A day paddock and a night paddock. Usually get 3 or 4 grazings per paddock. Getting 2 now off some of the drier ones. I guess it's not best for grass utilisation using a day/night system but I can mix in better quality with poorer quality, etc. They'll have the aftergrass shortly now by day and 4th rotation by night.

cosatron

straight wrote: »

2 strip wires all year round here. A day paddock and a night paddock. Usually get 3 or 4 grazings per paddock. Getting 2 now off some of the drier ones. I guess it's not best for grass utilisation using a day/night system but I can mix in better quality with poorer quality, etc. They'll have the aftergrass shortly now by day and 4th rotation by night.

ha ha, snap we do the exact same thing. strip graze the paddock for day and night so they have fresh grass after every milking. The boss likes to give the night half first and the full paddock during the day as his convinced they tidy up the night section better during the day as they eat more.

minerleague

cosatron wrote: »

ha ha, snap we do the exact same thing. strip graze the paddock for day and night so they have fresh grass after every milking. The boss likes to give the night half first and the full paddock during the day as his convinced they tidy up the night section better during the day as they eat more.

hi cosatron noticed earlier u export slurry, not a dairy farmer ( lowly stocked beef suckler) any harm to ask how much farmers pay for the slurry? ( fine if u rather not )

Buford T. Justice XIX

straight wrote: »

2 strip wires all year round here. A day paddock and a night paddock. Usually get 3 or 4 grazings per paddock. Getting 2 now off some of the drier ones. I guess it's not best for grass utilisation using a day/night system but I can mix in better quality with poorer quality, etc. They'll have the aftergrass shortly now by day and 4th rotation by night.

We were talking about this in our DG yesterday. One lad has changed from that system to 36 hour paddocks where he keeps about 15% of the paddock back till the last grazing and his milk yield has risen 1l and solids have gone up as well.

The facilitator reckons the difference is the younger cows, which are usually last out of the parlour and have less time grazing, are benefiting by having less time on shorter grass and better intakes as they're only pinched every third grazing rather than every grazing?

Edit: The down side he found was poorer cleanouts.

roosterman71

minerleague wrote: »

hi cosatron noticed earlier u export slurry, not a dairy farmer ( lowly stocked beef suckler) any harm to ask how much farmers pay for the slurry? ( fine if u rather not )

I import slurry and pay nothing apart from a cost to the farmer where it comes from to agitate it for me.

cosatron

minerleague wrote: »

hi cosatron noticed earlier u export slurry, not a dairy farmer ( lowly stocked beef suckler) any harm to ask how much farmers pay for the slurry? ( fine if u rather not )

Usually some of them offer to pay the contractor but the boss refuses them as they are doing us a great favour but they sign the form for us which is what we want. Its well known now that we export slurry and we have lads asking for some every year.

alps

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Is 27 paddocks not alot of paddocks?.

From older times...middle wires out now, but still grass measure the 27

straight

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

We were talking about this in our DG yesterday. One lad has changed from that system to 36 hour paddocks where he keeps about 15% of the paddock back till the last grazing and his milk yield has risen 1l and solids have gone up as well.

The facilitator reckons the difference is the younger cows, which are usually last out of the parlour and have less time grazing, are benefiting by having less time on shorter grass and better intakes as they're only pinched every third grazing rather than every grazing?

Edit: The down side he found was poorer cleanouts.

And the poorer cleanouts will tell in time. I allocate larger portions for the first few grazings and a smaller amount on the last. Love to see them back grazing looking for the last bit. Try to make sure they have a large allocation for the next grazing then. More labour intensive system alright.

cosatron

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

We were talking about this in our DG yesterday. One lad has changed from that system to 36 hour paddocks where he keeps about 15% of the paddock back till the last grazing and his milk yield has risen 1l and solids have gone up as well.

The facilitator reckons the difference is the younger cows, which are usually last out of the parlour and have less time grazing, are benefiting by having less time on shorter grass and better intakes as they're only pinched every third grazing rather than every grazing?

Edit: The down side he found was poorer cleanouts.

collecting the cows at 5 yesterday evening. all sitting down chewing the cud. Our heifers are first in to be milked and first out the gate.

dar31

alps wrote: »

From older times...middle wires out now, but still grass measure the 27

48 fields here, all surrounded by ditches and dykes. Some of them are grouped together in 2s and 3s to make for 36hr grazing "paddocks"
The old timers dug them dykes by hand for a reason.
A good few field names end in bog for that reason.

whelan2

straight wrote: »

Well I was thinking I must be wrong because I see the big guys have huge fields. I don't know but it works for me. 3 acre paddocks for 80 cows?

Sure every farm is different. Keep doing whatever works for you

minerleague

cosatron wrote: »

Usually some of them offer to pay the contractor but the boss refuses them as they are doing us a great favour but they sign the form for us which is what we want. Its well known now that we export slurry and we have lads asking for some every year.

thanks for that sell extra fodder here most years but with no nutrients going back in was thinking an arrangement of swapping silage for slurry with more intensive farmer would suit going forward with maybe limits on npk and derogation limits. honestly thought slurry would be more valuable

Wildsurfer

minerleague wrote: »

thanks for that sell extra fodder here most years but with no nutrients going back in was thinking an arrangement of swapping silage for slurry with more intensive farmer would suit going forward with maybe limits on npk and derogation limits. honestly thought slurry would be more valuable

It is, you wont find too many farmers that will give it away I'd say bar pig slurry.

wrangler

dar31 wrote: »

48 fields here, all surrounded by ditches and dykes. Some of them are grouped together in 2s and 3s to make for 36hr grazing "paddocks"
The old timers dug them dykes by hand for a reason.
A good few field names end in bog for that reason.

Agreed, we had dykes here and I leveled them and found why they were dug, all the surface water from 100 acres flowed to one paddock and formed nearly a lake within a short while. The cattle puddled it in case there was any natural soakage too
M6 motorway came along then 50ft under the land and solved the problem, but the dykes were dug for a reason

atlantic mist

can you collect the seed from fileds that havent been reseeded in 30-40 years? the seed companies have made it illegal for us to harvest the seed is that correct? is there a time limit on this like patients?

through genitics we have focused on the best characteristic to breed the "best" but by dong this we disredard many good qualities which we dont understand, probably until they are gone, and that would be my fear of the gmo's we have altered the plant for cetain benifits witout fulling understanding the negitive effects

yosemitesam1

atlantic mist wrote: »

can you collect the seed from fileds that havent been reseeded in 30-40 years? the seed companies have made it illegal for us to harvest the seed is that correct? is there a time limit on this like patients?

through genitics we have focused on the best characteristic to breed the "best" but by dong this we disredard many good qualities which we dont understand, probably until they are gone, and that would be my fear of the gmo's we have altered the plant for cetain benifits witout fulling understanding the negitive effects

You can save all the seed you want from that but it's illegal to sell it on.
Thatchers with varieties over 100 years old could only pass it onto others unofficially due to the EU rules

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.eurogroupforanimals.org/news/ep-committee-inquiry-mandated-deeply-investigate-animal-transports

More pressure on live exports.

Gawddawggonnit

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

You can save all the seed you want from that but it's illegal to sell it on.
Thatchers with varieties over 100 years old could only pass it onto others unofficially due to the EU rules

Don’t you have to pay a royalty also?

yosemitesam1

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Don’t you have to pay a royalty also?

I think the royalties expire after 30 years

Gawddawggonnit

atlantic mist wrote: »

can you collect the seed from fileds that havent been reseeded in 30-40 years? the seed companies have made it illegal for us to harvest the seed is that correct? is there a time limit on this like patients?

through genitics we have focused on the best characteristic to breed the "best" but by dong this we disredard many good qualities which we dont understand, probably until they are gone, and that would be my fear of the gmo's we have altered the plant for cetain benifits witout fulling understanding the negitive effects

We save some Italian ryegrass from time to time. It needs to be air dried and cleaned afterwards. Pig of a thing to get out of the tank of the combine.

Gawddawggonnit

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

I think the royalties expire after 30 years

And in a mix of new and old varieties...? .

Base price

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

https://www.eurogroupforanimals.org/news/ep-committee-inquiry-mandated-deeply-investigate-animal-transports

More pressure on live exports.

IFJ had a article about it this week - https://www.farmersjournal.ie/eu-to-set-up-inquiry-into-animal-transport-552495
I read recently that DAFM are sending Vet's to accompany some live shipments to ensure that the rules/regulations for the transport of livestock are adhered too. I cannot find the article at the min but will post it when I find it.

yosemitesam1

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

And in a mix of new and old varieties...? .

Depends how readily they outcross, assuming it's no longer grass we're talking about...

To become a recognised variety don't they have to be distinctive and breed true? So if the seed doesn't meet that on testing surely they can't force you to pay?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Base price wrote: »

IFJ had a article about it this week - https://www.farmersjournal.ie/eu-to-set-up-inquiry-into-animal-transport-552495
I read recently that DAFM are sending Vet's to accompany some live shipments to ensure that the rules/regulations for the transport of livestock are adhered too. I cannot find the article at the min but will post it when I find it.

The exports of livestock from here meet and exceed all the regulations in place but there appears to be a blind eye being shown to the handling of those stock once they land elsewhere.

Which is where all the reports are coming from:rolleyes:

Buford T. Justice XIX

Might interest a few wicklow folks, a study of TB and the transmission of TB between deer, badgers and cattle, with deer showing up as very important as hosts and transmitters.
https://www.microbiologyresearch.org/content/journal/mgen/10.1099/mgen.0.000388?fbclid=IwAR3toeKDDFwuCdrJQvIv3xJQjuuz-vhg7GgxbkRGR4EErdyESPhIZGgIgHI

Castlekeeper

Say my name wrote: »

Try 5000 years ago here.

https://twitter.com/VoxHib/status/1273290097077747717?s=20

The poor ole Mesolithic people here were hunting and gathering away here till Neolithic dairy farmers from England and France decided this was a grand country to set up shop.
Their field and paddock system for their cows are buried under thousands of years of peat in the Ceide fields in Mayo.
Even just in the recent past pre famine every bit of ground was being farmed. There's lazy beds that were used for potato production still visible on Bing maps on the Blackstairs.
It all went a bit south then from emigration and deaths.

On Brazil there's whole communities of native Brazilians who never studied in Cornel agricultural university living quite happily on the native ecosystem.
Of course they know crap and should be driving a John Deere and paying taxes.

There were field systems along the Barrow long before the Ceide fields afaik, there's a book on it I heard of by a Dr.Gillian Barrett.

Say my name

Castlekeeper wrote: »

There were field systems along the Barrow long before the Ceide fields afaik, there's a book on it I heard of by a Dr.Gillian Barrett.

Where was that do you know?

I read before that the Barrow estuary was said to have been the first point of humans landing in the country. Even when sea levels were a lot lower and land going out far to sea from the southeast. The three sisters river was still obviously there but it's entering the sea was miles out from Hook head.

https://twitter.com/Xavi_Bros/status/1265866281787457536?s=20

*Just found this tweet. Miles is right. :pac:
Doggerland is there in the north sea. And sure all the human settlements on that.

Ain't the price of milk shocking though..

Castlekeeper

Say my name wrote: »

Where was that do you know?

I read before that the Barrow estuary was said to have been the first point of humans landing in the country. Even when sea levels were a lot lower and land going out far to sea from the southeast. The three sisters river was still obviously there but it's entering the sea was miles out from Hook head.

https://twitter.com/Xavi_Bros/status/1265866281787457536?s=20

*Just found this tweet. Miles is right. :pac:
Doggerland is there in the north sea. And sure all the human settlements on that.

Ain't the price of milk shocking though..

My source is from around Athy.

K.G.

Grasstec are advertising a partnership in a superb setup in milford co cork.land and.buildings look top class

OffalyMedic

K.G. wrote:

Grasstec are advertising a partnership in a superb setup in milford co cork.land and.buildings look top class

Any links?

einn32

OffalyMedic wrote: »

Any links?

There is a sharply presented video on the Grasstec YouTube channel. But it's for a partnership in Filford, Co. Cork. I presume it's a typo.

K.G.

einn32 wrote: »

There is a sharply presented video on the Grasstec YouTube channel. But it's for a partnership in Filford, Co. Cork. I presume it's a typo.

Dont know a place called filford.its just a lovely spot.i know dawg id be suggesting putting 300 x breds on it.😁

Mooooo

Seems a good spot alright but unless living very close robotic system seems a strange one for a partnership and a young herd there with the investment put in also. Normally I thought partnerships would be born more out of business further on. Know nothing off it so could be plenty reasons just not what I was expecting

https://youtu.be/Cszf_FMGaYM

whelan2

Belt went on the air compressor this evening. Need it to feed the nuts. Rang milking machine man and he left the belt out for me. He's only 10 minutes over the road. Only on a Sunday....

Mortelaro

whelan2 wrote: »

Belt we t on their compressor this evening. Need it to feed the nuts. Rang milking machine man and he left the belt out for me. He's only 10 minutes over the road. Only on a Sunday....

We bought a lidl 50 litre compressor for 80 euros
It works fine just for the feeders
They have them now and again so it's worth picking one up as a stand by