Dairy Chitchat 3

Reggie.

Mooooo wrote: »

Don't doubt it, the rule is there already whether it's being followed or not is another thing. Possible not many farms in derogation in your part of the country tho. Would be more common down here

Safely say but the dept wont have s hope of telling farmers around here they have to get dribble bars. Don't even think the contractors could afford it. Very few of them about

freedominacup

Reggie. wrote: »

Safely say but the dept wont have s hope of telling farmers around here they have to get dribble bars. Don't even think the contractors could afford it. Very few of them about

Farmers can't afford to be without them. All contractors in this area resigned to getting them. Local guy who got his write up in the comuc about 18 months ago who at the time had a similar opinion to you has three 2.5k high specs with trailing shoes attached now. He didn't think farmers would pay for it either but working in an intensively farmed area so had to switch.

Contractor here brings a 3k tandem and a 2.5k on lgp tyres for winter spreading. They'll move 100k in the same overall time as pipes with a fraction of the disruption. 20k gals per hour on the grazing block. Output obviously drops once roadwork comes into it but pipes don't travel well either.

yosemitesam1

Reggie. wrote: »

Safely say but the dept wont have s hope of telling farmers around here they have to get dribble bars. Don't even think the contractors could afford it. Very few of them about

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/science/the-trouble-with-ammonia-1.3721098%3fmode=amp


There is this whole thing but whether or not anything will ever be done is another question

Reggie.

freedominacup wrote: »

Farmers can't afford to be without them. All contractors in this area resigned to getting them. Local guy who got his write up in the comuc about 18 months ago who at the time had a similar opinion to you has three 2.5k high specs with trailing shoes attached now. He didn't think farmers would pay for it either but working in an intensively farmed area so had to switch.

Contractor here brings a 3k tandem and a 2.5k on lgp tyres for winter spreading. They'll move 100k in the same overall time as pipes with a fraction of the disruption. 20k gals per hour on the grazing block. Output obviously drops once roadwork comes into it but pipes don't travel well either.

I wouldn't care having the equipment if the work was there but it isn't around here. Not a chance of farmers paying extra for drawing water or extra agitating that the dribble bars use.

In my whole area here I think there are only 3 tankers with dribble bars. Only guys with pipes use them regular and only I think 2 guys around here doing that. They do all the big dairy farmers about as few as them that are so no tankers are used there.

Last few fci meetings I was at there was alot of frustration. Many claimed to be considering giving up the slurry altogether. It's alot of work. Bales make a nightmare of agitating and having to haul extra water in. Then the blockages. Guys are saying hard to get money out of farmers atm for normal slurry never mind this type.

This is the Westmeath/Meath area. Farming is alot different around here. Easy to have them size machines in a intensive farming area but not a hope of working them around here. In alot of places 2100 gal tankers have to go out with half loads due to the ground if any type of rain falls. Every farm is well fragmented aswell to boot. I have to use an 18ft bale trailer as anything bigger won't fit in the entrances. Bloody 10ft gate is still king around here

charolais0153

Our cpntractor uses a 2400 gal major with trailing shoe. If it fits in county mayo with our 12 foot gates a d 2 acre fields. It eill surely fit in meath and westmeath...btw i would never let a splashplate into thr place again

Reggie.

charolais0153 wrote: »

Our cpntractor uses a 2400 gal major with trailing shoe. If it fits in county mayo with our 12 foot gates a d 2 acre fields. It eill surely fit in meath and westmeath...btw i would never let a splashplate into thr place again

Lads i know what ye are saying but try and understand i might know what im talking about here. I live and operate in this area

Most lads here still have one or two tanks not lagoons. 3000gal tankers and the likes ain't gonna happen and even if the gov brings in be a regs I can guarantee you splash plates so still be used 90% of the time. Dare I say theres still upward facing plates knocking about. The biggest thing is We are still dealing with the last generation around here which are stuck in their ways

Keep Sluicing

Reggie. wrote: »

Lads i know what ye are saying but try and understand i might know what im talking about here. I live and operate in this area

Most lads here still have one or two tanks not lagoons. 3000gal tankers and the likes ain't gonna happen and even if the gov brings in be a regs I can guarantee you splash plates so still be used 90% of the time. Dare I say theres still upward facing plates knocking about. The biggest thing is We are still dealing with the last generation around here which are stuck in their ways

The biggest farmer in my area (between 300 - 400 cows) still uses an upward facing splashplate. They still do about half their own slurry spreading. Its a waste of nitrogen at tge very least.

jaymla627

Reggie. wrote: »

I wouldn't care having the equipment if the work was there but it isn't around here. Not a chance of farmers paying extra for drawing water or extra agitating that the dribble bars use.

In my whole area here I think there are only 3 tankers with dribble bars. Only guys with pipes use them regular and only I think 2 guys around here doing that. They do all the big dairy farmers about as few as them that are so no tankers are used there.

Last few fci meetings I was at there was alot of frustration. Many claimed to be considering giving up the slurry altogether. It's alot of work. Bales make a nightmare of agitating and having to haul extra water in. Then the blockages. Guys are saying hard to get money out of farmers atm for normal slurry never mind this type.

This is the Westmeath/Meath area. Farming is alot different around here. Easy to have them size machines in a intensive farming area but not a hope of working them around here. In alot of places 2100 gal tankers have to go out with half loads due to the ground if any type of rain falls. Every farm is well fragmented aswell to boot. I have to use an 18ft bale trailer as anything bigger won't fit in the entrances. Bloody 10ft gate is still king around here

How’s it going for lads trying to gather up money for silage etc is it any worse on a account of the year that’s was in it

Timmaay

jaymla627 wrote: »

How’s it going for lads trying to gather up money for silage etc is it any worse on a account of the year that’s was in it

In terms of dairying, 2018 profit monitors suggest we haven't done too bad, the milk price has been steady enough, yep we will all be 20/30% down across the board from 2017, but 2017 was an exceptional year. This year has been a disaster in terms of weather, stress etc, however in terms of economics it's not a patch on the likes of a yr with a base price in the low 20s

charolais0153

Timmaay wrote: »

In terms of dairying, 2018 profit monitors suggest we haven't done too bad, the milk price has been steady enough, yep we will all be 20/30% down across the board from 2017, but 2017 was an exceptional year. This year has been a disaster in terms of weather, stress etc, however in terms of economics it's not a patch on the likes of a yr with a base price in the low 20s

Imagine a proper drought in like 2009 type milk price year. There would be carnage

Reggie.

jaymla627 wrote: »

How’s it going for lads trying to gather up money for silage etc is it any worse on a account of the year that’s was in it

I'm ok thankfully but chatting to lads out there some are still owed over 20k and some say the farmers havnt got it to give. These aren't huge contractors either just small baling outfits. It's a hard burden to carry

charolais0153

Reggie. wrote: »

I'm ok thankfully but chatting to lads out there some are still owed over 20k and some say the farmers havnt got it to give. These aren't huge contractors either just small baling outfits. It's a hard burden to carry

Peast theyll get to write off the vat;)
20k is what 2000bales? Not a huge amount in either. Soem lads probably make that alone

Timmaay

charolais0153 wrote: »

Imagine a proper drought in like 2009 type milk price year. There would be carnage

2009 was a year of carnage in fairness ha, 2008 was a fantastic year for milk price, so load of lads had invested heavily on the back of it, then came 2009, base price ranked to 21c, and also back then most dairyfarmers still had the quota around their neck so outputs restricted, superlevy bills, and also solids were alot closer to the base solids of 3.3p and 3.6bf, so many lads were only just getting the 21c/l. I absolutely wouldn't wish a return to them days on my worst enemy ha.

Reggie.

charolais0153 wrote: »

Peast theyll get to write off the vat;)
20k is what 2000bales? Not a huge amount in either. Soem lads probably make that alone

If you don't think 20k is a huge amount to a small contractor there's something wrong.

That could be 20% of his silage income there if not more.

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

I'm ok thankfully but chatting to lads out there some are still owed over 20k and some say the farmers havnt got it to give. These aren't huge contractors either just small baling outfits. It's a hard burden to carry

Very poor form to walk a contractor into that situation, The contractors won't survive that carry on either, especially the smaller operators

degetme

Reggie. wrote: »

I'm ok thankfully but chatting to lads out there some are still owed over 20k and some say the farmers havnt got it to give. These aren't huge contractors either just small baling outfits. It's a hard burden to carry

I can't get a bill of my contractor. He mustn't want money

Mooooo

Timmaay wrote: »

2009 was a year of carnage in fairness ha, 2008 was a fantastic year for milk price, so load of lads had invested heavily on the back of it, then came 2009, base price ranked to 21c, and also back then most dairyfarmers still had the quota around their neck so outputs restricted, superlevy bills, and also solids were alot closer to the base solids of 3.3p and 3.6bf, so many lads were only just getting the 21c/l. I absolutely wouldn't wish a return to them days on my worst enemy ha.

Was a wet year as well, down here anyway iirc. We were pouring concrete as some of the slurry storage grants had come out. Feeding cattle inside as well during the summer. Put up a tower that had 6 feet of water in it come year end

Reggie.

degetme wrote: »

I can't get a bill of my contractor. He mustn't want money

Oh he does but we covered that in a different argument/ conversation

degetme

Reggie. wrote: »

Oh he does but we covered that in a different argument/ conversation

Hes holding out money for a different tax year is what im thinking. Tis annoying reali cause i want to know what i owe him and have everyone paid by xmas. Hes the only one that won't do as hes asked. Im happy with his work. Hes just a pain to settle up accounts and no invoices given to his customers

Reggie.

degetme wrote: »

Hes holding out money for a different tax year is what im thinking. Tis annoying reali cause i want to know what i owe him and have everyone paid by xmas. Hes the only one that won't do as hes asked. Im happy with his work. Hes just a pain to settle up accounts and no invoices given to his customers

How fo you claim your expenses if no invoices

orm0nd

degetme wrote: »

Hes holding out money for a different tax year is what im thinking. Tis annoying reali cause i want to know what i owe him and have everyone paid by xmas. Hes the only one that won't do as hes asked. Im happy with his work. Hes just a pain to settle up accounts and no invoices given to his customers

No invoice = no cheque issued policy in force here .. no exceptions

degetme

Reggie. wrote: »

How fo you claim your expenses if no invoices

Well the accountants accept it anyway. Shur the cheque can be traced if needed be to prove they got it.

degetme

orm0nd wrote: »

No invoice = no cheque issued policy in force here .. no exceptions

If you bought fodder do you get an invoice. I agree with your above point

Reggie.

degetme wrote: »

If you bought fodder do you get an invoice. I agree with your above point

I think there's a allowance given for fodder and straw. I know that fci are talking about trying to bring in regulation that you'll have to get an invoice for any contractor work to cut out the "black economy". No invoice....No claim against tax.

This is in its infancy stage tho

straight

Reggie. wrote: »

I think there's a allowance given for fodder and straw. I know that fci are talking about trying to bring in regulation that you'll have to get an invoice for any contractor work to cut out the "black economy". No invoice....No claim against tax.

This is in its infancy stage tho

Trying to cut out the competition.

Reggie.

straight wrote: »

Trying to cut out the competition.

Well yes but it's only right. I think it's to cut out the "farmers son running down to spread slurry with his father's machines for beer money on a sat"

Ya might think this is harmless but it's a death by a thousand cuts sort of thing.

charolais0153

Reggie. wrote: »

Well yes but it's only right. I think it's to cut out the "farmers son running down to spread slurry with his father's machines for beer money on a sat"

Ya might think this is harmless but it's a death by a thousand cuts sort of thing.

Death for who though?

jaymla627

Reggie. wrote: »

Well yes but it's only right. I think it's to cut out the "farmers son running down to spread slurry with his father's machines for beer money on a sat"

Ya might think this is harmless but it's a death by a thousand cuts sort of thing.

Opposite end of it here, my lad has got to busy, after opening the silage pit here he won’t be coming back again, he used to take a bit of pride in doing the pit right and now it’s pegged up as quick as possible with the loader gone out of the yard 5 mins once last load is tipped, make 1400 bales a year with him aswell which he used to draw in for us along with my own rig, but he could barely be got to bale it this year let alone draw them in....
Going in-house with silage next year, and just going to hire in a lad with a wagon, it had started to get out of hand contractors cost here couldn’t really continue going forward either

Reggie.

charolais0153 wrote: »

Death for who though?

Well if you cut into the contractors slurry work enough it makes it unviable for them then so they quit it or do less. Farmers suffer then as the capacity of the contractors to do large amount of work in short periods is reduced. Then the contractor bashing starts.....Not arriving on time and such.

Don't forget contractors get no schemes or grants of any kind for machines so if it's not paying it's gone to recoup the money asap.

Or should be anyways.

Reggie.

jaymla627 wrote: »

Opposite end of it here, my lad has got to busy, after opening the silage pit here he won’t be coming back again, he used to take a bit of pride in doing the pit right and now it’s pegged up as quick as possible with the loader gone out of the yard 5 mins once last load is tipped, make 1400 bales a year with him aswell which he used to draw in for us along with my own rig, but he could barely be got to bale it this year let alone draw them in....
Going in-house with silage next year, and just going to hire in a lad with a wagon, it had started to get out of hand contractors cost here couldn’t really continue going forward either

More big farms will go this route I'd say. Only thing is you can't claim your silage costs off your tax I don't think as your doing it yourself.

New contractors aren't coming up behind thr old ones as its so exoensive to get going. Either tge big lads will have to get bigger or smaller contractor specialising in certain areas are going to pop due to the cost.

I'm the only new guy starting up in my area. I started at least 6 years ago and only gaining traction now. At least 3 baling outfits will be gone in the next max 10 years. Contracting is a hard game. It's a thing where you have too little work starting off to suddenly having too much work all of a sudden and the work suffers as result

charolais0153

Reggie. wrote: »

Well if you cut into the contractors slurry work enough it makes it unviable for them then so they quit it or do less. Farmers suffer then as the capacity of the contractors to do large amount of work in short periods is reduced. Then the contractor bashing starts.....Not arriving on time and such.

Don't forget contractors get no schemes or grants of any kind for machines so if it's not paying it's gone to recoup the money asap.

Or should be anyways.

By your reasoning, a young lad shouldnt be allowed draw bales in with his neighbour because a contractor has. Akeltec bale carrier down in his yard?
I dont think contractors are too badly off one way or another
If

jaymla627

Reggie. wrote: »

More big farms will go this route I'd say. Only thing is you can't claim your silage costs off your tax I don't think as your doing it yourself.

New contractors aren't coming up behind thr old ones as its so exoensive to get going. Either tge big lads will have to get bigger or smaller contractor specialising in certain areas are going to pop due to the cost.

I'm the only new guy starting up in my area. I started at least 6 years ago and only gaining traction now. At least 3 baling outfits will be gone in the next max 10 years. Contracting is a hard game. It's a thing where you have too little work starting off to suddenly having too much work all of a sudden and the work suffers as result

Diseal/hp repayments etc will all come of tax, the crazy thing in my case, with bales gone out of the equation and going all pit, it will mean working lesser hours at silage in my case over what I’m doing currently, along with speeding up winter feeding with a loading shovel, and a nice coat saving to boot

Reggie.

charolais0153 wrote: »

By your reasoning, a young lad shouldnt be allowed draw bales in with his neighbour because a contractor has. Akeltec bale carrier down in his yard?
I dont think contractors are too badly off one way or another
If

No I'm not saying that at all and don't be mudding the water here.

Why do you think contractors are not too badly off?

I'm working in Dublin and everyday I listen to trash of the city crowd about farmers free money and always bitching and the likes but we all know what's the reality there.

No harm to see it from everyone's perspective as many farmers unfortunately like to think of a contractor in the same light as a city person would look at a farmer. Its unfair and a little understanding goes a long way in fairness.

If you read my post it states that if that's going on then the contractor will invest less in that area of work. Then when the farmers need a big push from contractors to complete work quickly then it might not be there. Just trying to shed light on the situation has a cause and effect on things.

Reggie.

jaymla627 wrote: »

Diseal/hp repayments etc will all come of tax, the crazy thing in my case, with bales gone out of the equation and going all pit, it will mean working lesser hours at silage in my case over what I’m doing currently, along with speeding up winter feeding with a loading shovel, and a nice coat saving to boot

Ah that's good as it works for you that's the important thing. Everyone has to cut their cloth to measure.

Strangely enough what you describe there is my plan B

Timmaay

Another reason why dairyfarmers should let contractors do nearly all machinery work, it's bloody impossible to get a mechanic to service anything these days. Tried 4 different lads and none got time.

alps

Timmaay wrote: »

Another reason why dairyfarmers should let contractors do nearly all machinery work, it's bloody impossible to get a mechanic to service anything these days. Tried 4 different lads and none got time.

Building repairs etc as well TIMMAAY...absolute disaster...our scraper boys now want 200 plus vat to come to the yard, (8miles) plus time and parts after that...getting disillusioned with a share of things now...

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

Another reason why dairyfarmers should let contractors do nearly all machinery work, it's bloody impossible to get a mechanic to service anything these days. Tried 4 different lads and none got time.

If you buy the 1st day of a good dealership should be a non-issue, getting a lad to do a nixer is a different story alright, like the machinery work personally, if I was to contract out slurry/mowing here like I used to, I’d have to cut the contractor another Cheque for 12k, as numbers have increased here and with it the extra machinery work it’s made sense to invest in new machinery to do the above jobs

yewtree

Timmaay wrote: »

Another reason why dairyfarmers should let contractors do nearly all machinery work, it's bloody impossible to get a mechanic to service anything these days. Tried 4 different lads and none got time.

contractors do everything here bar feeding out, some fertiliser and some mowing. I cant see myself going back to any of it. Contractors never let me down, I have three different lads between all the jobs. A bit of notice and prompt payment goes a long way.
I am also stone useless fixing machinery so any break down cost a lot of money and time.
Slurry during the spring was a never ending saga here, messing around at it for parts of days. Contractor for two days sorts it out now.

Reggie.

yewtree wrote: »

contractors do everything here bar feeding out, some fertiliser and some mowing. I cant see myself going back to any of it. Contractors never let me down, I have three different lads between all the jobs. A bit of notice and prompt payment goes a long way.
I am also stone useless fixing machinery so any break down cost a lot of money and time.
Slurry during the spring was a never ending saga here, messing around at it for parts of days. Contractor for two days sorts it out now.

Notice......That's a major thing for contractors believe me

The Nutty M

Reggie. wrote: »

Notice......That's a major thing for contractors believe me

And notice doesn't include looking at the weather after the 9 o'clock news and ringing him to come the next day.

wrangler

alps wrote: »

Building repairs etc as well TIMMAAY...absolute disaster...our scraper boys now want 200 plus vat to come to the yard, (8miles) plus time and parts after that...getting disillusioned with a share of things now...

That's why I say that €40 is useless for milking, but sure it's your luck if you can get them at it

whelan2

The Nutty M wrote: »

And notice doesn't include looking at the weather after the 9 o'clock news and ringing him to come the next day.

And then post on boards about useless contractors! Never a problem here with contractors.

freedominacup

Reggie. wrote: »

. I have to use an 18ft bale trailer as anything bigger won't fit in the entrances. Bloody 10ft gate is still king around here

You meed to stop "getting in" the first time and get a bit of reinforcing done on the front corners of the bale trailer. Ten foot gates were everywhere around here 25 yrs ago. It's all 20fts now.

Reggie.

freedominacup wrote: »

You meed to stop "getting in" the first time and get a bit of reinforcing done on the front corners of the bale trailer. Ten foot gates were everywhere around here 25 yrs ago. It's all 20fts now.

Most are them nasty round stone built piers. Youd swear there was a protection order on the bloody things

Timmaay

wrangler wrote: »

That's why I say that €40 is useless for milking, but sure it's your luck if you can get them at it

You can (and I actually have) train in a 15 yr milker in like 2milkings and let them on solo after that, a mechanic need a full apprenticeship, decent set of tools and 1000s in diagnostic equipment to fix the average modern tractor.

visatorro

Timmaay wrote: »

wrangler wrote: »

That's why I say that €40 is useless for milking, but sure it's your luck if you can get them at it

You can (and I actually have) train in a 15 yr milker in like 2milkings and let them on solo after that, a mechanic need a full apprenticeship, decent set of tools and 1000s in diagnostic equipment to fix the average modern tractor.

You'd always have a vice grips in the cab just incase like!

wrangler

Timmaay wrote: »

You can (and I actually have) train in a 15 yr milker in like 2milkings and let them on solo after that, a mechanic need a full apprenticeship, decent set of tools and 1000s in diagnostic equipment to fix the average modern tractor.

Shearing contractor will earn €40/hr easy enough with 2000 worth of machinery,
Scanner could do 100/hr with 10 -15 000 worth of machinery.
15 yr old would get it tax free, don't know what the implication of putting a PAYEs name and address on a dairy farmers accounts
would the milker then have to employ an acountant

whelan2

I don't think I'd let any 15 year old take over milking my cows after 2 milkings. Fine if I was there too.

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

I don't think I'd let any 15 year old take over milking my cows after 2 milkings. Fine if I was there too.

Was abit of an experiment I'll admit ha, he had absolutely no bother tho. My dad was around the place also, and I was at the other end of a whatsapp if needed also. I also know some milkers with years and years of experience, who charge alot more, and generally do a crap lazy rushed sloppy job ha (actually hell I could prb lump myself in that category at times haha)

mf240

whelan2 wrote: »

I don't think I'd let any 15 year old take over milking my cows after 2 milkings. Fine if I was there too.

I was milking for lads when I was 16. But maybe you mean a lad thats not from a dairy farm