Dairy Chitchat 3

visatorro

whelan2 wrote: »

Had umbilical system here today spreading on fields I grazed earlier in the year. Coming back again tomorrow.

Same as that. I'm running out of slurry! May put cows back in!

Gawddawggonnit

I’d the umbilical system here last week for a few hours before I sent them home. Total waste of money. €80/hr and I looked after the pumping.

Maybe it was the two children the contractor sent out and not the kit was at fault, but either way I can shift it a waaaay faster with my system.

alps

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I’d the umbilical system here last week for a few hours before I sent them home. Total waste of money. €80/hr and I looked after the pumping.

Maybe it was the two children the contractor sent out and not the kit was at fault, but either way I can shift it a waaaay faster with my system.

Was your pump good enough....will shift 40k gals/he here

Costs 150+ vat, so you can't have any time wasting

whelan2

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I’d the umbilical system here last week for a few hours before I sent them home. Total waste of money. €80/hr and I looked after the pumping.

Maybe it was the two children the contractor sent out and not the kit was at fault, but either way I can shift it a waaaay faster with my system.

Wouldn't travel my ground at the minute with a tanker. Agree though on the kids

Gawddawggonnit

alps wrote: »

Was your pump good enough....will shift 40k gals/he here

Costs 150+ vat, so you can't have any time wasting

Pump has more than enough capacity.
When I dismissed the young lads I went and bought another irrigation reel (€800) and doubled my capacity...takes about an hour to set up two reels, put it going, and no manpower needed for hours as all is automatic. Roughly about €12-15/hr and no messing whatsoever.
Simples.

It’d work easily in Ireland but for the cost of the pump...

kevthegaff

2 cows dead with ulcer s, causes?

whelan2

kevthegaff wrote: »

2 cows dead with ulcer s, causes?

Are they inside or outside atm

freedominacup

kevthegaff wrote: »

2 cows dead with ulcer s, causes?

Stress usually. I think a lot of cows have them but stress causes rupture. These type of conditions high N levels in grass flowing through them doesn't help. Bit more fibre in diet somehow could help. Very hard to save them once rupture happens. Blood transfusions and massive rehydration. Plenty of coffee can be a help in rehydration fluids. We've had 3 over 30 years.

Gawddawggonnit

This time of year is problematic with on-off grazing etc. along with rich grass.

Do you feed cows pre-calving with milkers diet?
Stress?
Silage quality pre-calving?
How many kgs/day concentrates?
History of copper deficiency?
Are you vaccinating for bvd?
How are milk urea levels?

Lol, just read back the post...no answers, just questions. Sorry!

Buford T. Justice XIX

kevthegaff wrote: »

2 cows dead with ulcer s, causes?

Are they some of the bought ones or your own cows, Kev?

Timmaay

Dawg any word on how them dairyfarmers in Germany who were massively hit by the drought last summer and were buying fodder all over Europe have faired out this winter? Or any of the Swedish lads?

jaymla627

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

This time of year is problematic with on-off grazing etc. along with rich grass.

Do you feed cows pre-calving with milkers diet?
Stress?
Silage quality pre-calving?
How many kgs/day concentrates?
History of copper deficiency?
Are you vaccinating for bvd?
How are milk urea levels?

Lol, just read back the post...no answers, just questions. Sorry!

Cows weren’t coming into milk her at calving only having 2-3 liters of colostrum, despite 4kgs of a 18% course blend feed 3 weeks pre calving along with a very high spec mineral, got a in-depth mineral analysis done and silage is testing of the scale for molybdenum, could be a factor in kev’s case

degetme

jaymla627 wrote: »

Cows weren’t coming into milk her at calving only having 2-3 liters of colostrum, despite 4kgs of a 18% course blend feed 3 weeks pre calving along with a very high spec mineral, got a in-depth mineral analysis done and silage is testing of the scale for molybdenum, could be a factor in kev’s case

How do you counteract high molybdenum?

Say my name

This is interesting.

Gerry Giggins on high molybdenum in silage.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/analysis-of-silages-shows-impact-of-dismal-weather-28823145.html

jaymla627

degetme wrote: »

How do you counteract high molybdenum?

Double rate selenium added to fertilizer, ad-lib excess to calsea hi-phos/pre-calver blocks throughout the year/ feed powdered lifeline a month pre calving at a rate of 300g daily/ chealeted mineral drench given twice yearly aswell/ and a really good quality mineral pack in the dairy nuts, on top of this 2 bags of physioloth goes out on all ground in June yearly, and A lot of money also spent on intra clean and protect to keep feet right which is a on-going battle with mortelaro in the mix

freedominacup

jaymla627 wrote: »

Double rate selenium added to fertilizer, ad-lib excess to calsea hi-phos/pre-calver blocks throughout the year/ feed powdered lifeline a month pre calving at a rate of 300g daily/ chealeted mineral drench given twice yearly aswell/ and a really good quality mineral pack in the dairy nuts, on top of this 2 bags of physioloth goes out on all ground in June yearly, and A lot of money also spent on intra clean and protect to keep feet right which is a on-going battle with mortelaro in the mix

I'm sorry but this comes to mind reading this post.
Big Bang Theory - Expensive urine - YouTube
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O27Tn06bEXU

jaymla627

freedominacup wrote: »

I'm sorry but this comes to mind reading this post.
Big Bang Theory - Expensive urine - YouTube
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O27Tn06bEXU

Unless you have expirence of dealing with farming in a high molybdenum area it’s easy to sneer, up until I started doing the above two years ago, was having 25% retained cleanings, abnormally sized calves with 35% of cows needing assistance calving and 70 plus % of heifers, calves that simply wouldn’t suck and plagued by problems with pneumonia/scour, has to be a belt and braces approach given cow type here and level of feed going in

Gawddawggonnit

Timmaay wrote: »

Dawg any word on how them dairyfarmers in Germany who were massively hit by the drought last summer and were buying fodder all over Europe have faired out this winter? Or any of the Swedish lads?

I honestly have no idea Tim.

Gawddawggonnit

degetme wrote: »

How do you counteract high molybdenum?

Simple enough, but goes against the mainstream thinking of how to grow grass a bit...
Firstly keep soil ph under 5.5.
Avoid compaction and poorly drained soil.
Don’t take silage cuts that are ‘small’ ie. don’t bale up strong paddocks etc. The larger cuts dilute (as it were) the Mo in the grass.
Stay away from clover in swards! or dont ensile pure clovers.
Don’t ensile grass in very wet conditions before harvesting.

I’ve tested a lot of forages for Mo, and clover is the worst, while maize is the best...from the above, keeping the ph under 5.5 gives the best results.

freedominacup

jaymla627 wrote: »

Unless you have expirence of dealing with farming in a high molybdenum area it’s easy to sneer, up until I started doing the above two years ago, was having 25% retained cleanings, abnormally sized calves with 35% of cows needing assistance calving and 70 plus % of heifers, calves that simply wouldn’t suck and plagued by problems with pneumonia/scour, has to be a belt and braces approach given cow type here and level of feed going in

We are in a high molybdenum area. Did the belt and braces. On high levels of feeding. So far this season very low level of retained cleanings and very low level of assists. One hard pull I can think of. Haven't fed any minerals for 9 months now. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop and be plagued with problems but so far so good.

The link was slightly inappropriate but there's an element of truth to it. Any excess minerals you feed beyond what a cow needs is literally pissed away. Could be worth your while figuring out what is excess and cutting at least some of it.

Chellated is a swear word around here. It's salesman's slang for add 20%.

cute geoge

jaymla627 wrote: »

Unless you have expirence of dealing with farming in a high molybdenum area it’s easy to sneer, up until I started doing the above two years ago, was having 25% retained cleanings, abnormally sized calves with 35% of cows needing assistance calving and 70 plus % of heifers, calves that simply wouldn’t suck and plagued by problems with pneumonia/scour, has to be a belt and braces approach given cow type here and level of feed going in

I had similar problems going back 10 years or so ,i switched from making high fertilised precision chop silage (4 bags of pasture)to low amount of fert. round bales silage (2-3 bags of pasture).This did the trick for me

Gawddawggonnit

jaymla627 wrote: »

Unless you have expirence of dealing with farming in a high molybdenum area it’s easy to sneer, up until I started doing the above two years ago, was having 25% retained cleanings, abnormally sized calves with 35% of cows needing assistance calving and 70 plus % of heifers, calves that simply wouldn’t suck and plagued by problems with pneumonia/scour, has to be a belt and braces approach given cow type here and level of feed going in

Like everything, an overdose of a single micro/macro element can cause many knock-on effects on other elements down the line. The trick is to try and control the unbalance at source. Soil ph is the biggest single factor you can control...

Back in the 70s Teagasc (AFT or ACOT?) used to always quote a different ph for high Mo soils, and for peaty soils...maybe this has changed?

Personally, I find that the more ‘elements’ you include in the diet, the more beneficial it is to health...just like your own diet. Deep rooting grasses like cocksfoot are also excellent.

Yes I’m in a very high Mo area.

Greysides should have an interesting perspective on this.

Gawddawggonnit

freedominacup wrote: »

We are in a high molybdenum area. Did the belt and braces. On high levels of feeding. So far this season very low level of retained cleanings and very low level of assists. One hard pull I can think of. Haven't fed any minerals for 9 months now. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop and be plagued with problems but so far so good.

The link was slightly inappropriate but there's an element of truth to it. Any excess minerals you feed beyond what a cow needs is literally pissed away. Could be worth your while figuring out what is excess and cutting at least some of it.

Chellated is a swear word around here. It's salesman's slang for add 20%.

No added minerals whatsoever?
Interesting.

visatorro

500 gallon concrete trough off local precast Place 550eur.

Thought sure glanbia are always dearer, asked today in store. Same price

kevthegaff

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

kevthegaff wrote: »

2 cows dead with ulcer s, causes?

Are they some of the bought ones or your own cows, Kev?

My own

yosemitesam1

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Simple enough, but goes against the mainstream thinking of how to grow grass a bit...
Firstly keep soil ph under 5.5.
Avoid compaction and poorly drained soil.
Don’t take silage cuts that are ‘small’ ie. don’t bale up strong paddocks etc. The larger cuts dilute (as it were) the Mo in the grass.
Stay away from clover in swards! or dont ensile pure clovers.
Don’t ensile grass in very wet conditions before harvesting.

I’ve tested a lot of forages for Mo, and clover is the worst, while maize is the best...from the above, keeping the ph under 5.5 gives the best results.

It's needed for the enzyme to fix nitrogen in legumes and is needed for the enzyme to convert nitrate to protein.
Presume higher n means higher absorbance of mo

MF290

jaymla627 wrote: »

Unless you have expirence of dealing with farming in a high molybdenum area it’s easy to sneer, up until I started doing the above two years ago, was having 25% retained cleanings, abnormally sized calves with 35% of cows needing assistance calving and 70 plus % of heifers, calves that simply wouldn’t suck and plagued by problems with pneumonia/scour, has to be a belt and braces approach given cow type here and level of feed going in

what's soil ph like? Below 6.2 is recommended for high Mo land

Downtown123

I know it’s lastminute.com but when you’re applying under the LESS in Tams do you have to specify whether you’re buying a new tank or retrofitting or whether you’re getting a trailing shoe or dribble bar. Considering it here but we’re not sure what way to go. Dribble bar is a much simpler system but trailing shoe is a much better job for the grass. Before anyone says it we are currently getting a contractor to do it and we’ll probably stay that way but we’re wondering could we get grant approval and make our mind up after. The tank is only 4 years old -2000 gallon major and we’d be slow to change it that quick. I realize there may be issues with the axle and a macerater but I assume mastek and any of the other retrofitting companies would sort it fairly lively. Did I say I have a problem with posts that are unnecessarily long;):)

Gawddawggonnit

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

It's needed for the enzyme to fix nitrogen in legumes and is needed for the enzyme to convert nitrate to protein.
Presume higher n means higher absorbance of mo

With higher N usage you’d have the benefit of increased biomass and thus diluting the overall Mo content?

Reggie.

Downtown123 wrote: »

I know it’s lastminute.com but when you’re applying under the LESS in Tams do you have to specify whether you’re buying a new tank or retrofitting or whether you’re getting a trailing shoe or dribble bar. Considering it here but we’re not sure what way to go. Dribble bar is a much simpler system but trailing shoe is a much better job for the grass. Before anyone says it we are currently getting a contractor to do it and we’ll probably stay that way but we’re wondering could we get grant approval and make our mind up after. The tank is only 4 years old -2000 gallon major and we’d be slow to change it that quick. I realize there may be issues with the axle and a macerater but I assume mastek and any of the other retrofitting companies would sort it fairly lively. Did I say I have a problem with posts that are unnecessarily long;):)

Yes you have to decide which is going on the tanker as when the tanker is built if a trailing show is going on then certain brackets have to beheaded onto it and also I believe the axle has to be further back for the weight of the trailing shoe

oxjkqg

Downtown123 wrote: »

I know it’s lastminute.com but when you’re applying under the LESS in Tams do you have to specify whether you’re buying a new tank or retrofitting or whether you’re getting a trailing shoe or dribble bar. Considering it here but we’re not sure what way to go. Dribble bar is a much simpler system but trailing shoe is a much better job for the grass. Before anyone says it we are currently getting a contractor to do it and we’ll probably stay that way but we’re wondering could we get grant approval and make our mind up after. The tank is only 4 years old -2000 gallon major and we’d be slow to change it that quick. I realize there may be issues with the axle and a macerater but I assume mastek and any of the other retrofitting companies would sort it fairly lively. Did I say I have a problem with posts that are unnecessarily long;):)

Talk to Mastek or SlurryKat, i believe they have a retrofit dribble bar unit, trailing shoe not sure tho. a lot of the newer tanks are fabricated with the axles ready to take a dribble bar. Mastek unit is 400kg

Keepgrowing

kevthegaff wrote: »

Have you them out at night, surprised scc is bad if so.
I'm gona try them out tonight, out by day bar a few since the 7 th of January, weather playing ball atm

Yes out full time. Found the two culprits eventually. They’ll be happy meals next week

whelan2

Cows back out today. Oceans of grass.

Mooooo

whelan2 wrote: »

Cows back out today. Oceans of grass.

A lot of grass is right. Making the call whether to take some out in the next week or two in order not to have strong covers or run out went grazing the wetter part earlier and clean out wasn't great and is wet from the last few weeks rain so regrowth not great. Heifers went out too late. Have a pit of maize here with some damage done do it may strip it off and cover it with an early cut to protect it.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mooooo wrote: »

A lot of grass is right. Making the call whether to take some out in the next week or two in order not to have strong covers or run out went grazing the wetter part earlier and clean out wasn't great and is wet from the last few weeks rain so regrowth not great. Heifers went out too late. Have a pit of maize here with some damage done do it may strip it off and cover it with an early cut to protect it.

Sorry I didn't go straight into the heavier land earlier than I did. Only got half grazed but lesson learned for the future.

whelan2

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Sorry I didn't go straight into the heavier land earlier than I did. Only got half grazed but lesson learned for the future.

No grass can be a problem, too much grass can also be a problem...

freedominacup

whelan2 wrote: »

No grass can be a problem, too much grass can also be a problem...

Discussion groups here today. I've been underestimating covers. AFC between 900 and 1000. 85% grazed. 1400 covers on first paddocks grazed in January. Decision to be made on Monday whether to skip remainder of first rotation and bale it or try to graze some heavy covers. Heifers were held fof 5 days at the start of the month when weather turned sour and they aren't going to get through silage ground on outfarm. Some if that will definitely be baled. Covers over 2000 there at this stage.

GrasstoMilk

freedominacup wrote: »

Discussion groups here today. I've been underestimating covers. AFC between 900 and 1000. 85% grazed. 1400 covers on first paddocks grazed in January. Decision to be made on Monday whether to skip remainder of first rotation and bale it or try to graze some heavy covers. Heifers were held fof 5 days at the start of the month when weather turned sour and they aren't going to get through silage ground on outfarm. Some if that will definitely be baled. Covers over 2000 there at this stage.

What covers are on your next highest paddocks after your 1400?
If there not over 1000 I'd be cautious of starting the second round for the min.
We've 7 days left in ours and 1000 on the first grazes

Buford T. Justice XIX

whelan2 wrote: »

No grass can be a problem, too much grass can also be a problem...

I'd rather be looking at it than for it, though.

I'm also needing more water troughs, permanent fencing and spur roads but that's a problem for next year, I'll digest the last building round first and throw up a good bit of single strand fencing in late spring.

Timmaay

Maize I paid 60e/ton for last Oct I'm now selling to a neighbour for 50e/ton lol. Lovely complaint to have that I don't need it though. Lesson learnt for future yrs is its not worth the effort of having maize in the pit after paddy's day.

freedominacup

Timmaay wrote: »

Maize I paid 60e/ton for last Oct I'm now selling to a neighbour for 50e/ton lol. Lovely complaint to have that I don't need it though. Lesson learnt for future yrs is its not worth the effort of having maize in the pit after paddy's day.

Last years lesson was that you needed a quality forage to keep cows going if the weather didn't play ball at this time of year. I think last years lesson was the more realistic one.

Mooooo

Timmaay wrote: »

Maize I paid 60e/ton for last Oct I'm now selling to a neighbour for 50e/ton lol. Lovely complaint to have that I don't need it though. Lesson learnt for future yrs is its not worth the effort of having maize in the pit after paddy's day.

Could you not keep it? I'm going to cover the pit with grass and that should protect it, told grower i won't be buying this year. Hopefully not a mistake but the 14k saved will go towards reseeding and have a good share of wheaten straw left so if needs must may fill a gap with concentrates

whelan2

Mooooo wrote: »

Could you not keep it? I'm going to cover the pit with grass and that should protect it, told grower i won't be buying this year. Hopefully not a mistake but the 14k saved will go towards reseeding and have a good share of wheaten straw left so if needs must may fill a gap with concentrates

He might be glad of it in the drought...

White Clover

whelan2 wrote: »

He might be glad of it in the drought...

In April....

whelan2

White Clover wrote: »

In April....

Was mid May before we had cows out at night last year, I wouldn't be selling off feed here just yet

freedominacup

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

What covers are on your next highest paddocks after your 1400?
If there not over 1000 I'd be cautious of starting the second round for the min.
We've 7 days left in ours and 1000 on the first grazes

Dropping back steadily from there. Greater minds than mine were raising the question about taking out paddocks.

freedominacup

White Clover wrote: »

In April....

It's happened before. The remainder of that year was as bad as 2012 though.

straight

Springs, reservoirs, etc. must be very low still. If we get another scorcher there'll be bigger problems this year.

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

Maize I paid 60e/ton for last Oct I'm now selling to a neighbour for 50e/ton lol. Lovely complaint to have that I don't need it though. Lesson learnt for future yrs is its not worth the effort of having maize in the pit after paddy's day.

Is that not a crazy move Tim considering your drought probe all for helping a neighbour out but why sell at a loss either way I’d of sealed up pit great insurance policy to have

Reggie.

straight wrote: »

Springs, reservoirs, etc. must be very low still. If we get another scorcher there'll be bigger problems this year.

Not around here