Dairy Chitchat 3

Gawddawggonnit

wrangler wrote: »

To make changes based on this year would be stupid.

It could be argued that changes should be made based on this year...if you’re not learning or adjusting as you go the system is too rigid/inflexible, no?

whelan2

morclc wrote: »

Is there a shortage of them??

Yes

whelan2

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

It could be argued that changes should be made based on this year...if you’re not learning or adjusting as you go the system is too rigid/inflexible, no?

Those of us who were badly affected in 2012/13 made changes.

Gawddawggonnit

jaymla627 wrote: »

I’m beyond help so, have 5 ton dm in the yard of conserved feed per cow as of last week....
Regards running into trouble with feed they have always had to buy in most years to get themselves out of trouble, the only good thing to come out of the place is the fact Glanbia haven’t been able to invest in a farm and produce milk at the sub 25 cent liter level cop that they where alluding to as guaranteed in the infancy of the “project”

Surely there has been many lessons learned from Greenfields?
Is it not a good thing that the fodder situation in the country is perfectly reflected by the project?
Now, without pointing a finger at any individual farmers, the brains that are running it can tweak the fodder supply/availablity in such a way that all farms can have some kind of template going forward?
That’s the whole idea of a project like that?

Gawddawggonnit

whelan2 wrote: »

Those of us who were badly affected in 2012/13 made changes.

There are many that obviously didn’t.

The rule of thumb here on non-irrigated farms is to have one years supply in stock at all times. For irrigated farms it’s 6mts.
The excuses of not having enough concrete for a silage slab doesn’t really stand up especially with TAMS.

Keepgrowing

Worth a read?


https://www.croplife.org.au/media/media-releases/luddites-rejoice-as-european-agriculture-is-consigned-to-the-dark-ages/

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Good idea.
Why not?
The only concern I’d have about a digester is that it usually prices farmers out of the fodder market...

The last sentence is a peach...!

Nimbyism is a big factor along with return on investment down south of the border anyway. Government only seem to want large scale renewables. Another man on here knows much more about it. I think someone was trying to put one up in north cork but a lot of local anger apparently.

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Surely there has been many lessons learned from Greenfields?
Is it not a good thing that the fodder situation in the country is perfectly reflected by the project?
Now, without pointing a finger at any individual farmers, the brains that are running it can tweak the fodder supply/availablity in such a way that all farms can have some kind of template going forward?
That’s the whole idea of a project like that?

I don't think the fodder situation is perfectly reflected by the project. It is probably in the worst affected part of the country 're drought. Most farms don't have their stocking rate also and the number of tillage farms converted woukdnt be huge either id say.
The thing is the most difficult conditions and indeed fodder situations have been caused by rain. It was the rain in 2012 that caused spring 13 fodder issues and it was the rain and bad weather from last August thru to May that caused the fodder issues this year, initially in the West in the spring and in the east during the drought as reserves were either used up or sent west in the spring.
in 12 we had cows housed in July, due to weather had **** silage in the pit and a poor maize crop. No grass then till near may 13. What was learned then here was basically if the cows don't need to graze it grass is either going into a pit or a double wrapped bale. So yes I agree that
Foddder reserves are needed but id say it's a balance in terms of replenishing what the farm needs really. I sold 130 odd bales this spring, if the opposite had happened and rain came instead of drought thru the summer id be the one crying and looking for silage off the lads on dry ground and green fields would have been powering on.

yosemitesam1

kowtow wrote: »

Was just reading it now as it happens.

1. Tank storage with crust - does that apply to all non-lagoon tanks (eg. metal slurry stores / outside concrete tank / slatted unit?)

2. What is the uptake of high sugar grasses in Ireland? Are there any on the approved list etc.?

All the varieties on the recommended list would be high sugars, the big problem is that any reductions it makes in emissions aren't going to make any substantial difference because of the amount of n fertilizer needed

yosemitesam1

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Worth a read?


https://www.croplife.org.au/media/media-releases/luddites-rejoice-as-european-agriculture-is-consigned-to-the-dark-ages/

Think that the scientists are doing a bit too much whinging over this, they don't have the knowledge to do what they're promising from it.

jaymla627

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Surely there has been many lessons learned from Greenfields?
Is it not a good thing that the fodder situation in the country is perfectly reflected by the project?
Now, without pointing a finger at any individual farmers, the brains that are running it can tweak the fodder supply/availablity in such a way that all farms can have some kind of template going forward?
That’s the whole idea of a project like that?

To run the system you suggest means their template to start of with has to be ripped up and put in the bin, it’s simply not possible given cow type in a extreme grazing herd, with genetic potential for 5000-5500 littes of milk of a mature cow to put a ton of meal into her and have 6 months of fodder reserves in stock at all times....
Feed costs per litre become astronomical and the maths for viable milk production don’t work, it’s head in the sand and keep the ship afloat till the spring in a lot of places, a bad winter/spring heading into 2019 will leave a lot of farms in the haypenny place

yewtree

jaymla627 wrote: »

To run the system you suggest means their template to start of with has to be ripped up and put in the bin, it’s simply not possible given cow type in a extreme grazing herd, with genetic potential for 5000-5500 littes of milk of a mature cow to put a ton of meal into her and have 6 months of fodder reserves in stock at all times....
Feed costs per litre become astronomical and the maths for viable milk production don’t work, it’s head in the sand and keep the ship afloat till the spring in a lot of places, a bad winter/spring heading into 2019 will leave a lot of farms in the haypenny place

Your the only one saying that, the farmers running these systems aren't saying it. Why are so bothered with the other systems. Lads need to tweak their system which is a long way from the whole system is broken.
Every time there is a bit of a crisis I hear the same nonsense half the farms will be bust by the end of the year. The reality is the vast majority of lads will be fine it doesn't suit the doom and gloom merchants.

charolais0153

yewtree wrote: »

The reality is the vast majority of lads will be fine it doesn't suit the doom and gloom merchants.

There are rumours going around of a high profile young farmer near here who is meant to be in big trouble. He is on all rented land and no rent paid,wont get meal till its paid and wont get fert till its paid either. Only thing paid are the employees

whelan2

charolais0153 wrote: »

There are rumours going around of a high profile young farmer near here who is meant to be in big trouble. He is on all rented land and no rent paid,wont get meal till its paid and wont get fert till its paid either. Only thing paid are the employees

I really hate lads posting on here about other lads misfortunes. Seems some get a kick out of it.

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

I really hate lads posting on here about other lads misfortunes. Seems some get a kick out of it.

Shoe could very easily be on other foot some day

kowtow

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Good idea.
Why not?
The only concern I’d have about a digester is that it usually prices farmers out of the fodder market...

The last sentence is a peach...!

Yeh, I'd have the same concern about digesters, the only way I could see it working is if it was properly integrated with a *truly* co-operative local movement and was kept close to farm scale. In theory they could take excess nitrates and a moderately sized unused fodder reserve and be prepared to wind down power production when appropriate to help balance the herd's feed requirements. I have no idea how feasible this is but given that on-farm digestion is a reality in many countries and creameries here have access to many (now disused) local sites I have always felt that this could be done at small scale if people could get their heads around it.

The history of local politics, co-operative ambition, electricity generation, renewables, and planning in this country all make me think - however - that running such a sensible scheme properly for the practical benefit of farmers would actually be far beyond our abilities.

kevthegaff

kowtow wrote:

Yeh, I'd have the same concern about digesters, the only way I could see it working is if it was properly integrated with a *truly* co-operative local movement and was kept close to farm scale. In theory they could take excess nitrates and a moderately sized unused fodder reserve and be prepared to wind down power production when appropriate to help balance the herd's feed requirements. I have no idea how feasible this is but given that on-farm digestion is a reality in many countries and creameries here have access to many (now disused) local sites I have always felt that this could be done at small scale if people could get their heads around it.

kowtow wrote:

The history of local politics, co-operative ambition, electricity generation, renewables, and planning in this country all make me think - however - that running such a sensible scheme properly for the practical benefit of farmers would actually be far beyond our abilities.

I often wondered if a contractor could collect ditch cuttings could it be used for a digestor

kowtow

Mooooo wrote: »

I don't think the fodder situation is perfectly reflected by the project. It is probably in the worst affected part of the country 're drought. Most farms don't have their stocking rate also and the number of tillage farms converted woukdnt be huge either id say.
The thing is the most difficult conditions and indeed fodder situations have been caused by rain. It was the rain in 2012 that caused spring 13 fodder issues and it was the rain and bad weather from last August thru to May that caused the fodder issues this year, initially in the West in the spring and in the east during the drought as reserves were either used up or sent west in the spring.
in 12 we had cows housed in July, due to weather had **** silage in the pit and a poor maize crop. No grass then till near may 13. What was learned then here was basically if the cows don't need to graze it grass is either going into a pit or a double wrapped bale. So yes I agree that
Foddder reserves are needed but id say it's a balance in terms of replenishing what the farm needs really. I sold 130 odd bales this spring, if the opposite had happened and rain came instead of drought thru the summer id be the one crying and looking for silage off the lads on dry ground and green fields would have been powering on.

It's extraordinary how localised the effects are.

We are much tighter than we would like to be in a year in which we are well understocked... not much more than 1 LU / ha overall of largely dry Cork land.

So under-stocked, in fact, that we sold a first cut of silage off a new outfarm because in any normal year the second and third cuts of that and our other ground would be more than enough (we have never had less than 3, sometimes 4 cuts on silage ground).

But we cut that farm on 7th June and when we mowed again a week or two ago there were barely 2 bales an acre on the drier ground. Cork airport got something like 40mm of rain last month and f** all before that!!

20km West of that, at home, whilst the cows were eating indoors during the drought itself the recovery was much quicker and we've been taking the odd surplus paddock off.

jaymla627

yewtree wrote: »

Your the only one saying that, the farmers running these systems aren't saying it. Why are so bothered with the other systems. Lads need to tweak their system which is a long way from the whole system is broken.
Every time there is a bit of a crisis I hear the same nonsense half the farms will be bust by the end of the year. The reality is the vast majority of lads will be fine it doesn't suit the doom and gloom merchants.

Do the figures, take greenfield today and costs to feed the herd versus milk sent out the gate, given current diet your looking at 4 euro a cow a day when feeding out costs are included, tag in wages at .70 cent a cow a day your now approaching nearly 5 euros cove for feed plus wages....
Milk out the gate at 18 liters/cow at .36 cent liter comes to 6.50 euro give our take, that leaves the grand total of just over 450 euro a day left over to meet all other commitments, but if rent was taken into account that 450 is used up on this alone....
You can deride my opinions all you want, I don’t really care but the above fag-box figures paint a fairly stark picture, given non-existent feed stocks for the winter, what’s in their slush fund at present won’t cover half the costs going to be occurred their over the coming winter/spring period.....
It’s noting to me if lads in circumstances similar to above want to keep ploughing the same path, but like the housing collapse that we witnessed a decade ago everyone was in denial till the thing blow-up in their faces

kowtow

jaymla627 wrote: »

Do the figures, take greenfield today and costs to feed the herd versus milk sent out the gate, given current diet your looking at 4 euro a cow a day when feeding out costs are included, tag in wages at .70 cent a cow a day your now approaching nearly 5 euros cove for feed plus wages....
Milk out the gate at 18 liters/cow at .36 cent liter comes to 6.50 euro give our take, that leaves the grand total of just over 450 euro a day left over to meet all other commitments, but if rent was taken into account that 450 is used up on this alone....
You can deride my opinions all you want, I don’t really care but the above fag-box figures paint a fairly stark picture, given non-existent feed stocks for the winter, what’s in their slush fund at present won’t cover half the costs going to be occurred their over the coming winter/spring period.....
It’s noting to me if lads in circumstances similar to above want to keep ploughing the same path, but like the housing collapse that we witnessed a decade ago everyone was in denial till the thing blow-up in their faces

What's their cash reserve and what do they expect (hope) to make in net profit after all costs next year and the year after? (assuming no further catastrophic weather events).

The figure of importance here is how long it takes to replenish that cash reserve.

charolais0153

mahoney_j wrote: »

Shoe could very easily be on other foot some day

It will be along time till i try to have 250 cows:rolleyes:

mahoney_j

charolais0153 wrote: »

It will be along time till i try to have 250 cows:rolleyes:

Same here but u don’t need to milk 250 cows nor 100 cows nor any number to hit a bump

yewtree

jaymla627 wrote: »

Do the figures, take greenfield today and costs to feed the herd versus milk sent out the gate, given current diet your looking at 4 euro a cow a day when feeding out costs are included, tag in wages at .70 cent a cow a day your now approaching nearly 5 euros cove for feed plus wages....
Milk out the gate at 18 liters/cow at .36 cent liter comes to 6.50 euro give our take, that leaves the grand total of just over 450 euro a day left over to meet all other commitments, but if rent was taken into account that 450 is used up on this alone....
You can deride my opinions all you want, I don’t really care but the above fag-box figures paint a fairly stark picture, given non-existent feed stocks for the winter, what’s in their slush fund at present won’t cover half the costs going to be occurred their over the coming winter/spring period.....
It’s noting to me if lads in circumstances similar to above want to keep ploughing the same path, but like the housing collapse that we witnessed a decade ago everyone was in denial till the thing blow-up in their faces

It's in a bad place now but it won't always have those feed costs. When they were doing 2 kg/ms on a couple of kilos of meal you weren't telling us it was a roaring sucess.
The debt on irish dairy farms and the debt levels that the building industry incurred are not comparable. Sure 2016 was a brutal year for milk price and I didn't too many farms for sale because of it.

Keepgrowing

charolais0153 wrote: »

There are rumours going around of a high profile young farmer near here who is meant to be in big trouble. He is on all rented land and no rent paid,wont get meal till its paid and wont get fert till its paid either. Only thing paid are the employees

Hearing this about loads of lads, sure I’m supposed to have culled 30% of our herd for €100/head. Actually bought complete winter milking herd however didn’t hear about that guy selling out. I just love the way guys love to get a dig in

mf240

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Hearing this about loads of lads, sure I’m supposed to have culled 30% of our herd for €100/head. Actually bought complete winter milking herd however didn’t hear about that guy selling out. I just love the way guys love to get a dig in

Nobody is talking about you as much as you are.

Never wrestle with pigs

Would it make more sense if they are that deep in the sh!tter to offload all cows now. Bar perhaps a handful of their best. Restock silage, what ever they can grab over the next few weeks. Buy back next spring in a presumably fragile/value to be got market and go agin. No shame in it and no point in letting pride get in the way.

Little to no feeding costs over the winter and I'm sure on a farm of that scale that there is enough projects/improvements to keep staff busy. Just thinking out loud offering a different option. This day was coming for a while and lessons should be learned.

Gawddawggonnit

Tearing up templates...
Changing cow type...
Speaking ill...
Merchants of doom...
Once in forty years weather events...
Hitting a bump...
FFS.


Facts are that there’s been a second (third?) fodder crisis in five years. Coops/merchants are going around Eu trawling for fodder by the thousands of tons. The Gov are stepping in again with another fodder transport subsidy.

How do we stop this happening again?
I suggest, quite simply, to hold a much bigger reserve of fodder. I can’t understand how this could possibly make farms unprofitable. If carrying an extra few months worth of fodder is going to inexplicably put a dairy farming system under, then you’d have to wonder about the robustness of that system.
In fairness it couldn’t be easier to build bigger pits with the lucrative grants available from TAMS.

There was a MO among dairy farmers of buying ‘dry cow’ silage from beef and livestock farmers at under the cop. This was beggar thy neighbor type of economics and couldn’t be sustained...

My point of using Greenfield as a template was quite generic. Of course every farm is different, but most farms still suffered fodder shortages from moisture deficits. Whether you operate a Greenfield type system or an indoor ayr system is not relevant.

Facts are, let’s face it, grass doesn’t always grow.
The last few years have proven that without any doubt. There has been a huge silence from the powers that be about never letting this happen again.
Buying diet feeders or feeder buckets is not going to make the grass grow in unfavorable conditions.

Teagasc have to shoulder some of the responsibility for this recurring mess.
Will Teagasc take the lead and come up with a realistic solution...?
There’s a paucity of solutions on offer on this forum.

kevthegaff

First derogation should be scrapped would help environment and fodder crisis ll in one swoop. Lots of lads In this county loaded to the sh**ts with cows with 5cows/hectare and even stocked higher on cubicles. ..

GrasstoMilk

https://www.facebook.com/508731702475336/posts/2351834048165083/

This stuff looks like monster clover!!

jaymla627

kevthegaff wrote: »

First derogation should be scrapped would help environment and fodder crisis ll in one swoop. Lots of lads In this county loaded to the sh**ts with cows with 5cows/hectare and even stocked higher on cubicles. ..

Simpler again when these bulls**t bord bia requirements are been done, one of the requirements should be the farm is carrying sufficient feed stocks in store, if not the case you lose your status....
It’s gas if the parlour is dirty our a few cows are missing tags your non-compliant, but if cows are facing the possibility of been under-fed/succumbing to disease due to insufficient fodder stocks it’s grand

kevthegaff

jaymla627 wrote:

Simpler again when these bulls**t bord bia requirements are been done, one of the requirements should be the farm is carrying sufficient feed stocks in store, if not the case you lose your status.... It’s gas if the parlour is dirty our a few cows are missing tags your non-compliant, but if cows are facing the possibility of been under-fed/succumbing to disease due to insufficient fodder stocks it’s grand

Why not a quick check on slurry storage and cow feed/space because it's anti expansion.

mahoney_j

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Tearing up templates...
Changing cow type...
Speaking ill...
Merchants of doom...
Once in forty years weather events...
Hitting a bump...
FFS.


Facts are that there’s been a second (third?) fodder crisis in five years. Coops/merchants are going around Eu trawling for fodder by the thousands of tons. The Gov are stepping in again with another fodder transport subsidy.

How do we stop this happening again?
I suggest, quite simply, to hold a much bigger reserve of fodder. I can’t understand how this could possibly make farms unprofitable. If carrying an extra few months worth of fodder is going to inexplicably put a dairy farming system under, then you’d have to wonder about the robustness of that system.
In fairness it couldn’t be easier to build bigger pits with the lucrative grants available from TAMS.

There was a MO among dairy farmers of buying ‘dry cow’ silage from beef and livestock farmers at under the cop. This was beggar thy neighbor type of economics and couldn’t be sustained...

My point of using Greenfield as a template was quite generic. Of course every farm is different, but most farms still suffered fodder shortages from moisture deficits. Whether you operate a Greenfield type system or an indoor ayr system is not relevant.

Facts are, let’s face it, grass doesn’t always grow.
The last few years have proven that without any doubt. There has been a huge silence from the powers that be about never letting this happen again.
Buying diet feeders or feeder buckets is not going to make the grass grow in unfavorable conditions.

Teagasc have to shoulder some of the responsibility for this recurring mess.
Will Teagasc take the lead and come up with a realistic solution...?
There’s a paucity of solutions on offer on this forum.

Peach of a post

K.G.

perfect common sense too keep a resevre in place but this is not the time to build it.just on the whole gossip thing cow slaughtering is only up 800 cows year on year at a time when were hearing tales of mass slaughterings taking place and there was 400,000 extra cattle in the country in 95 for last drought so its even though dairy cows have increased the national herd is smaller

mf240

kevthegaff wrote: »

Why not a quick check on slurry storage and cow feed/space because it's anti expansion.

Why not test the milk every second day for quality instead. Oh wait.

whelan2

kevthegaff wrote: »

Why not a quick check on slurry storage and cow feed/space because it's anti expansion.

That wiuld be doing the county council inspectors out of a job

Mooooo

The department check all those things anyway. I assume most of ye had a nitrates inspection at some stage?. Tanks, yards etc all measured.
I've seen as many low stocked farms looking for fodder as I have in derogation. How many of ye know lads so short of slurry storage etc? I don't. All this talk how much is fact and how much is just giving out for the sake of it. Maybe it's the year that's in it, my own sister says I've been cranky out for the last month or two

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mooooo wrote: »

The department check all those things anyway. I assume most of ye had a nitrates inspection at some stage?. Tanks, yards etc all measured.
I've seen as many low stocked farms looking for fodder as I have in derogation. How many of ye know lads so short of slurry storage etc? I don't. All this talk how much is fact and how much is just giving out for the sake of it. Maybe it's the year that's in it, my own sister says I've been cranky out for the last month or two

Yeah, we've noticed:pac:

whelan2

whelan2 wrote: »

4 calves born this morning. 4 Friesian heifers.

Jinxed myself there, 4 fr bulls this morning. Including one set of twins

kevthegaff

I'm battling with myself will I expand more. I'm lowly stocked, lots of cubicle space and if I had a labour unit I'd have more time off (I'd hope) . On the flip side the system isn't under any pressure, cows are healthy and content.

Reggie.

kevthegaff wrote: »

I'm battling with myself will I expand more. I'm lowly stocked, lots of cubicle space and if I had a labour unit I'd have more time off (I'd hope) . On the flip side the system isn't under any pressure, cows are healthy and content.

Why mess with a good thing?

Calfscour

K.G. wrote: »

perfect common sense too keep a resevre in place but this is not the time to build it.just on the whole gossip thing cow slaughtering is only up 800 cows year on year at a time when were hearing tales of mass slaughterings taking place and there was 400,000 extra cattle in the country in 95 for last drought so its even though dairy cows have increased the national herd is smaller

I think there was more dairy farmers at the time. More or less the same amount of cows now but on farms with higher stocking rate.

mf240

kevthegaff wrote: »

I'm battling with myself will I expand more. I'm lowly stocked, lots of cubicle space and if I had a labour unit I'd have more time off (I'd hope) . On the flip side the system isn't under any pressure, cows are healthy and content.

I'm trying to stop myself expanding.

It's the chipper food that causing it.

Mooooo

kevthegaff wrote: »

I'm battling with myself will I expand more. I'm lowly stocked, lots of cubicle space and if I had a labour unit I'd have more time off (I'd hope) . On the flip side the system isn't under any pressure, cows are healthy and content.

Labour is the thing. Have a guy here part time but if he decides to go back to building I won't be able to compete to keep him money wise. He seems happy enough at the moment, has fulltime work between me and the neighbour and is working well. Id say keep an ear to the ground 're anyone looking for work and put yourself in a position to add cows if you can then.

Timmaay

kevthegaff wrote: »

I'm battling with myself will I expand more. I'm lowly stocked, lots of cubicle space and if I had a labour unit I'd have more time off (I'd hope) . On the flip side the system isn't under any pressure, cows are healthy and content.

Very same here. Nice complaint to have I'll admit ha. The labour unit is the most important part for me, it's the one part that can make or break the whole system. I've got on very well using local student labour up to now, and given the lack of fodder I'm very unlikely to bother expanding much next year if at all.

Base price

K.G. wrote: »

perfect common sense too keep a resevre in place but this is not the time to build it.just on the whole gossip thing cow slaughtering is only up 800 cows year on year at a time when were hearing tales of mass slaughterings taking place and there was 400,000 extra cattle in the country in 95 for last drought so its even though dairy cows have increased the national herd is smaller

Are you sure that figure is correct?
According to official figures (bord bia) cow slaughter figures are up 12,844 on the same time as last year and are up 1,171 from the same week last year.
https://www.bordbia.ie/industry/farmers/pricetracking/cattle/pages/supplies.aspx

Gawddawggonnit

kevthegaff wrote: »

First derogation should be scrapped would help environment and fodder crisis ll in one swoop. Lots of lads In this county loaded to the sh**ts with cows with 5cows/hectare and even stocked higher on cubicles. ..

Nitrate dérogation will be taken eventually, one way or another.

“Not going the right way” will not last forever...
In fact when the derogation is removed it could possibly be the cause of a bigger fodder crisis.

Gawddawggonnit

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/508731702475336/posts/2351834048165083/

This stuff looks like monster clover!!

Balansa/Micheli clover is far from ‘monster’ clover. It only grows to about the height of your knees. There’s clovers that’ll grow to the height of your shoulders...and fix N in the soil for at least two years.
Wrote plenty bullcrap about different clovers on here a while back.

I’ll wager a penny to a pound that if you planted a cc, it’s either westershyte or redstart?

alps

https://www.dairygold.ie/blog/dairygold-food-ingredients-dfi-uk-launches-new-added-value-cheese-range/

Expanding their offerings to include Vegan cheese and British Milk....one would hope that the revolving fund is not paying for the production facilities..

Gawddawggonnit

Kowtows idea of a digester is fundamentally sound, but by his own admission it would be very difficult to get it to work in the way it’d be needed to. Coops tend to get a mind of their own and quickly loses direction.

The removal of the N derogation, whilst a good idea, is realistically unworkable and could cause even bigger problems. Btw, when I say unworkable, I mean there’s no real limits to N in Ireland because nobody actually knows exactly how many tons of N are imported...

Cross-compliance measures could possibly be a runner. But then does it actually take a civil servant to call farm to farm to enforce what is basically good business practice?

Personally speaking, I think that it’ll take a major push from Teagasc and the Dept of Ag to change the research and focus of modern agriculture...I won’t be holding my breath.

Gawddawggonnit

Mooooo wrote: »

The department check all those things anyway. I assume most of ye had a nitrates inspection at some stage?. Tanks, yards etc all measured.
I've seen as many low stocked farms looking for fodder as I have in derogation. How many of ye know lads so short of slurry storage etc? I don't. All this talk how much is fact and how much is just giving out for the sake of it. Maybe it's the year that's in it, my own sister says I've been cranky out for the last month or two

If there’s plenty slurry storage, why were farmers firing slurry over ditches onto saturated ground last Dec/Jan?

If the climate is changing to longer winters, then surely more slurry storage is an absolute necessity?