Dairy Chitchat 3

mahoney_j

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

^^^^

It makes no odds whatsoever, j, when Urban Ireland flush their toilets, anything there magically turns into sunshine and butterflys.

They don't know or care to find out that a huge percentage of it ends up being pumped straight out to sea in Dublin or released in a controlled manner in local plants where it's classified as Agri pollution because only agriculture pollutes, don't ya know:rolleyes:

And that is a case that the ifa /Icmsa etc etc should be counter arguing with ,with hard facts and figures ,I’m hearing very little of it tho.the green mob are getting very vocal and loud and we need to fight back hard and be seen to be pro active in using likes of low emissions spreading protected urea ,fencing waterways clean yards planting trees etc .if we don’t we are going to end up like the Dutch

mahoney_j

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

That is what I was calling spin. Derogation isn't worth 900 million, it's a much smaller number but they targeted the more impressive headline.

Fighting a potentially changing tide might not be wise here and could do more harm than good

Fully agree on that ,unfounded or in accurate figures like that need to be binned and clear thought and facts put out

Mooooo

The issue really is that those in power don't capitulate to mob think 're the rules. Certainly everything has to improve in all sectors of society but targeting one sector as if twill solve all our problems won't help much. What really needs to be pushed on to Europe is that if they wish to impose different regs, no round up, etc. They should insist on any imports to the eu meeting the same standards. That's how they can have the biggest impact on world issues. But pigs will fly

Say my name

The stocking rate penalties never made any sense to me.
Exporting dung and slurry and importing fertilizer and meal and fodder. Surely if there was a bit of common sense any limits would be on the fertilizer, meal and fodder importing side and let the farm regulate itself. If by some miracle greater use was achieved by on farm fertilizer, it would cut down on road miles (carbon) in transport and separate the wheat from the chaff farmers.

Waffletraktor

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Itll affect tillage farmers big time with increased competition for land, never mind in between dairy and dry stock farmers.

It'll put guys who just produce bargain basement feed grains to the sword, which is doing the rest a favour and requires more importation of gmo feeds. Livestock sector will come under more scrutiny over green washing to their consumers.

alps

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

That is what I was calling spin. Derogation isn't worth 900 million, it's a much smaller number but they targeted the more impressive headline.

Fighting a potentially changing tide might not be wise here and could do more harm than good

You obviously don't understand milk production in a place like west cork, where 75% of the farmers are in derogation..

Its removal would mean armageddon..

The killing thing is that rivers in this area are highly monitored and no pollution issues. In fact there is absolutely no correlation between the derogation farms map and the polluted rivers map....none whatsoever....

The "Nitrates review" has been moved from a water quality issue to a "climate change" review...

The average N loading on derogation farms is only 211, way short of the 250 allowed, so overall stocking rate in the country is quite low...particularly in comparison to the European low countries.

Gov guiding opinion that all farms over 130 are "intensively stocked" and should adhere to the same regulations as derogation farms...currently many of these pose a greater risk than 170+ farms as they fly under the radar in terms of storage capacity etc. Some of these farms are the driver in land prices as they will spend any amount of money to stay out of inspection territory..

I reckon all our powers that be will want to retain the derogation, but the current debate and review will be about what we can "offer up"..

Waffletraktor

Say my name wrote: »

The stocking rate penalties never made any sense to me.
Exporting dung and slurry and importing fertilizer and meal and fodder. Surely if there was a bit of common sense any limits would be on the fertilizer, meal and fodder importing side and let the farm regulate itself. If by some miracle greater use was achieved by on farm fertilizer, it would cut down on road miles (carbon) in transport and separate the wheat from the chaff farmers.

Start making sense to fund farms covering their aircraft hangers in solar panels and local scale slurry ad using the heat generated to heat local villages too.

alps

I'd add on that just 2 changes alone would bring us most of the way towards our emission reduction targets and that would be

End of splash plate slurry spreading

Protected Urea use only...

alps

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Start making sense to fund farms covering their aircraft hangers in solar panels and local scale slurry ad using the heat generated to heat local villages too.

Are there AD plants that can run without the use of fodder (grass/maize)?

mahoney_j

alps wrote: »

I'd add on that just 2 changes alone would bring us most of the way towards our emission reduction targets and that would be

End of splash plate slurry spreading

Protected Urea use only...

I’m using that protected urea atm and from one of speakers at meeting I was at recently holes can be found as to how enviro friendly that is too banning splash plate I agree but it’ll be hard sell for lot farmers ,it will happen tho and we will have to adapt

alps

mahoney_j wrote: »

And that is a case that the ifa /Icmsa etc etc should be counter arguing with ,with hard facts and figures ,I’m hearing very little of it tho.the green mob are getting very vocal and loud and we need to fight back hard and be seen to be pro active in using likes of low emissions spreading protected urea ,fencing waterways clean yards planting trees etc .if we don’t we are going to end up like the Dutch

IFA have just finished a round of nationwide meetings that every member was asked to. The gave everyone a handout regarding the current nitrate review, and included a submission paper for each farmer to fill out and send to dept...

Bar holding the biro for guys while they filled it in, I'm not sure what more they could do....

yes all facts and figures about the towns and villages polluting rivers was given..

The meeting in Macroom at least, was poorly attended...

Say my name

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Start making sense to fund farms covering their aircraft hangers in solar panels and local scale slurry ad using the heat generated to heat local villages too.

I'd say if the Greens come into power more emphasis will be on on farm power generation and away from the corporation style situation at present.
I wouldn't be a huge fan of anaerobic digestion becoming a thing. It'll lead to full time indoor dairy plants akin to a pig farm. Not the animal friendly life I'd like to live if I was a cow. I could be completely wrong on all this.

mahoney_j

alps wrote: »

IFA have just finished a round of nationwide meetings that every member was asked to. The gave everyone a handout regarding the current nitrate review, and included a submission paper for each farmer to fill out and send to dept...

Bar holding the biro for guys while they filled it in, I'm not sure what more they could do....

yes all facts and figures about the towns and villages polluting rivers was given..

The meeting in Macroom at least, was poorly attended...

Ifa meetings in general up this side are very poorly attended ,lot of time it’s older generation but very few younger active farmers an afull lot of faith has been lost in the Ifa a lot of it warranted but equally lots unwarranted .lot of lads just don’t have time either ,boss don’t be impresed if you arrive in at 7/8’o clock and tear off to meetings ....

Waffletraktor

alps wrote: »

Are there AD plants that can run without the use of fodder (grass/maize)?

They'll run on anything just harder to keep the concrete cow 100% and gas yield maybe lower.
One of the minions worked for a water company who did it with sewage in the late 00's, they couldn't clean the gass so well back then and had to rebuild engines at 2000hrs so just rotated 2 in and out.

wrangler

mahoney_j wrote: »

Ifa meetings in general up this side are very poorly attended ,lot of time it’s older generation but very few younger active farmers an afull lot of faith has been lost in the Ifa a lot of it warranted but equally lots unwarranted .lot of lads just don’t have time either ,boss don’t be impresed if you arrive in at 7/8’o clock and tear off to meetings ....

The few officers in each county can't do it all either, farmers are very much authors of their own demise now and blaming IFA for something that happened five years ago is the handy way out.
As with myself the future of farming doesn't really matter to us oldies and, if left to us, won't be pursued with any energy

Timmaay

Considering most the methane from cows is belched out will AD actually make much of a difference? I would say we'd get alot more bang for buck by trying to both change the cows diet (in the form of better grasses, and matching protein to the actual dietary requirements across the grazing season), alongside dietary addictives, and improved breeding.

And the flip side to all this climate change also could well be milder and shorter winters, with the cows out longer and therefore less slurry gathered which further deminishes the economics of ADs. ADs jsut don't work with any sort of graze system in my view.

Gawddawggonnit

It’s going to be outside the hands of the Irish Gov/IFA/Teagasc etc.
The Greens of France, Germany and Holland are screaming for the nitrate *DIRECTIVES* to be changed into Eu *REGULATION*. This is now a real probability of coming to pass. With a nitrate directive the Irish Gov has full control of how things are run in Ireland, as an EU regulation it’ll be completely out of their hands...

The Greens couldn’t give a flying fiddlers about what the reality on the ground is, they have an agenda and now they have the mandate! The wave of environmental consciousness has turned into a tsunami...interesting times ahead.

Edit.
The Greens in Eu (the ones that count!) are pushing hard for an end to artificial fert and chemicals use. They won’t stop until they’ve all land farmed organically.
Do ye really think protected Urea will even be considered as ‘good’ for the environment? LOL!

yosemitesam1

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

It’s going to be outside the hands of the Irish Gov/IFA/Teagasc etc.
The Greens of France, Germany and Holland are screaming for the nitrate *DIRECTIVES* to be changed into Eu *REGULATION*. This is now a real probability of coming to pass. With a nitrate directive the Irish Gov has full control of how things are run in Ireland, as an EU regulation it’ll be completely out of their hands...

The Greens couldn’t give a flying fiddlers about what the reality on the ground is, they have an agenda and now they have the mandate! The wave of environmental consciousness has turned into a tsunami...interesting times ahead.

Edit.
The Greens in Eu (the ones that count!) are pushing hard for an end to artificial fert and chemicals use. They won’t stop until they’ve all land farmed organically.
Do ye really think protected Urea will even be considered as ‘good’ for the environment? LOL!

Time for some sort of voluntary changes? I think that a lot of money is being spent driving the green agenda as a marketing tool.
We can piggyback on it or fight it and be scapegoated for everything

freedominacup

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

The Greens in Eu (the ones that count!) are pushing hard for an end to artificial fert and chemicals use. They won’t stop until they’ve all land farmed organically.
Do ye really think protected Urea will even be considered as ‘good’ for the environment? LOL!

Copa incl ifa should be supporting them 100% but with one caveat. Organic means organic and what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, i.e. EU agribusiness is going for organic food production so the EU consumer is obliged to only have organic food available to purchase. Food can be imported from any source providing it is certified as organic according to EU regulations. Anything else is simply 300 million consumers virtue signaling while expecting other people to to take the hit for their grandiose display. The craic will be mighty.

Buford T. Justice XIX

mahoney_j wrote: »

And that is a case that the ifa /Icmsa etc etc should be counter arguing with ,with hard facts and figures ,I’m hearing very little of it tho.the green mob are getting very vocal and loud and we need to fight back hard and be seen to be pro active in using likes of low emissions spreading protected urea ,fencing waterways clean yards planting trees etc .if we don’t we are going to end up like the Dutch

The media already have the narrative framed that farming is a huge contributor to GHG emissions. So feeding the world at 15% of total GHG emissions is much less important than the 15% contribution by transport. But restricting or taxing transport would have an immediate effect on peoples lives and they wouldn't like that so some huge reductions in cattle numbers will have an easy but mythical effect on emissions.

And that's before you look at the softer issues of pollution by plastics.

Timmaay wrote: »

Considering most the methane from cows is belched out will AD actually make much of a difference? I would say we'd get alot more bang for buck by trying to both change the cows diet (in the form of better grasses, and matching protein to the actual dietary requirements across the grazing season), alongside dietary addictives, and improved breeding.

And the flip side to all this climate change also could well be milder and shorter winters, with the cows out longer and therefore less slurry gathered which further deminishes the economics of ADs. ADs jsut don't work with any sort of graze system in my view.

AD, if supported here, will have to be smaller because of herd sizes and disease transmission issues.

And soils are full of microbes that consume methane so, from an emissions point of view, grazing is the most efficient way to reduce emissions. Lets face it, nature for thousands of years has gotten fairly good at providing solutions through trial and error.

alps

freedominacup wrote: »

what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, i.e. EU agribusiness is going for organic food production so the EU consumer is obliged to only have organic food available to purchase.

Began to choke myself at the thought of that....

Brilliant..

Dakota Dan

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

The media already have the narrative framed that farming is a huge contributor to GHG emissions. So feeding the world at 15% of total GHG emissions is much less important than the 15% contribution by transport. But restricting or taxing transport would have an immediate effect on peoples lives and they wouldn't like that so some huge reductions in cattle numbers will have an easy but mythical effect on emissions.

And that's before you look at the softer issues of pollution by plastics.


AD, if supported here, will have to be smaller because of herd sizes and disease transmission issues.

And soils are full of microbes that consume methane so, from an emissions point of view, grazing is the most efficient way to reduce emissions. Lets face it, nature for thousands of years has gotten fairly good at providing solutions through trial and error.

They won't be able to drive when they are hungry

Mortelaro

On glanbia connect it says I'm running 15% ahead of forecasted supply and to 'contact your manager'
I will yeah

whelan2

Anyone sell culls recently?

Birdnuts

alps wrote: »

You obviously don't understand milk production in a place like west cork, where 75% of the farmers are in derogation..

Its removal would mean armageddon..

The killing thing is that rivers in this area are highly monitored and no pollution issues. In fact there is absolutely no correlation between the derogation farms map and the polluted rivers map....none whatsoever....

The "Nitrates review" has been moved from a water quality issue to a "climate change" review...

The average N loading on derogation farms is only 211, way short of the 250 allowed, so overall stocking rate in the country is quite low...particularly in comparison to the European low countries.

Gov guiding opinion that all farms over 130 are "intensively stocked" and should adhere to the same regulations as derogation farms...currently many of these pose a greater risk than 170+ farms as they fly under the radar in terms of storage capacity etc. Some of these farms are the driver in land prices as they will spend any amount of money to stay out of inspection territory..

I reckon all our powers that be will want to retain the derogation, but the current debate and review will be about what we can "offer up"..

West Cork have mostly "spate" rivers which flush threw excess run-off faster then many of the slower lowland rivers in the Midlands and West were also you have lakes which are particulary vulnerable to agri run-off. Overall water quality issues in this country are about 50/50 between agri and non-agri sources. This of course varies alot between catchements. EG. The majority of the water quality issues in the Liffey catchment are urban generated. In contrast the Robe/Lough Carra catchment in SE Mayo has been badly affected on and off by intensive Dairy and pig operations. Its improved a bit in recent years(compared to the truely dire situation in the 80's and early 90's) put alot more progress needs to be made to recover water quality to anything like what existed 50 years ago.

orm0nd

whelan2 wrote: »

Anyone sell culls recently?

Got 3.25/kg for heavy O's in the factory.

Had a second calver that passed a mummy calf a month ago, at the mart. 570kg.. 840euro.

Gawddawggonnit

I was at a local farmers meeting last night about crows and pigeons.
There was a crow/pigeon repellent taken off the market this year that was included in the seed dressing.
Farmers of course blamed the gun clubs...
When I pointed out that they (unions, farmers etc) never said anything about the dressing being removed, I got dressed down myself for letting cover crop fields brown/yellow for weeks...very bad publicity they said.
All is lost.

whelan2

Freeze branding 80 this morning. What do ye normally get charged 3 digits. I'll be dead this evening....

JeffKenna

whelan2 wrote: »

Freeze branding 80 this morning. What do ye normally get charged 3 digits. I'll be dead this evening....

Jez...80 heifers. And here I was thinking you were a small time farmer like myself. (no offence intended).

alps

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I was at a local farmers meeting last night about crows and pigeons.
There was a crow/pigeon repellent taken off the market this year that was included in the seed dressing.
Farmers of course blamed the gun clubs...
When I pointed out that they (unions, farmers etc) never said anything about the dressing being removed, I got dressed down myself for letting cover crop fields brown/yellow for weeks...very bad publicity they said.
All is lost.

There must be nothing else in the world worse than a French person getting thick....

blackdog1

Gawddawggonnit wrote:

I was at a local farmers meeting last night about crows and pigeons. There was a crow/pigeon repellent taken off the market this year that was included in the seed dressing. Farmers of course blamed the gun clubs... When I pointed out that they (unions, farmers etc) never said anything about the dressing being removed, I got dressed down myself for letting cover crop fields brown/yellow for weeks...very bad publicity they said. All is lost.

I have French students regularly and they are big into their hunting. They tell me there is feck all pigeons etc to shoot so how big a problem is it Dawg? Know it would be a huge problem here the feckers take over the place.

whelan2

JeffKenna wrote: »

Jez...80 heifers. And here I was thinking you were a small time farmer like myself. (no offence intended).

Not all heifers. Some bought in and some last years heifers 30 done...

whelan2

whelan2 wrote: »

Freeze branding 80 this morning. What do ye normally get charged 3 digits. I'll be dead this evening....

We decided after half of them to put 2 digits on the rest of them. Was 360 euro for 81 done.

Mooooo

whelan2 wrote: »

We decided after half of them to put 2 digits on the rest of them. Was 360 euro for 81 done.

Any reason why? Go with four here same as the tag saves some bit of confusion when someone other than myself is looking at them

alps

whelan2 wrote: »

We decided after half of them to put 2 digits on the rest of them. Was 360 euro for 81 done.

You could do 676 different combinations of 2 letters, cover most herds ....

Buford T. Justice XIX

alps wrote: »

You could do 676 different combinations of 2 letters, cover most herds ....

But you then have to match the letters back to the numbers again.

whelan2

Mooooo wrote: »

Any reason why? Go with four here same as the tag saves some bit of confusion when someone other than myself is looking at them

Last time we freeze branded we ended on 995. So choice was to go 4 digits or start again. Then doing the 3 digits was taking ages so we went 2 digits on the rest.

Mooooo

https://twitter.com/ScottIrwinUI/status/1133467787047919616?s=19

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mooooo wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ScottIrwinUI/status/1133467787047919616?s=19

On the plus side for us, they're going planting more soya to have something growing instead of Maize.

Gawddawggonnit

blackdog1 wrote: »

I have French students regularly and they are big into their hunting. They tell me there is feck all pigeons etc to shoot so how big a problem is it Dawg? Know it would be a huge problem here the feckers take over the place.

Big problem with crows this year since the bird repellent has been banned from the seed dressing.
3 men full time at crows now. What a waste of man hours and money. Already have a few hectares to replant.

Not a geeks out of French farmers and their unions when it was proposed to ban it, instead they blame the gun clubs! Ffs.

Roundup will be gone in a couple of years because the farmers are resigned to it...gave out to me for leaving covercrops sprayed off for a couple of weeks...because it’s bad pr!
I give up.

Gawddawggonnit

Mooooo wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ScottIrwinUI/status/1133467787047919616?s=19

Fair hardship on the farmers.

I’ve planted extra maize on the back of it.

Gawddawggonnit

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

On the plus side for us, they're going planting more soya to have something growing instead of Maize.

Soya (gmo) hasn’t been as cheap for years due to Trumps trade war.

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Fair hardship on the farmers.

I’ve planted extra maize on the back of it.

Stop the pics of the scale of flooding on twitter etc are crazy

alps

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Fair hardship on the farmers.

I’ve planted extra maize on the back of it.

Thing everyone that can should hedge now....it couldn't be cheaper than what it is at the moment..

Gawddawggonnit

alps wrote: »

Thing everyone that can should hedge now....it couldn't be cheaper than what it is at the moment..

I hope to fcuk it goes through the roof. Grains have been on the floor for way too long.

tanko

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I hope to fcuk it goes through the roof. Grains have been on the floor for way too long.

Funny how the price of nuts and rations never seem to be on the floor.

Waffletraktor

tanko wrote: »

Funny how the price of nuts and rations never seem to be on the floor.

Millers need ski holidays too.

Dakota Dan

tanko wrote: »

Funny how the price of nuts and rations never seem to be on the floor.

What price is bulk dairy ration now? Would straights do when cows are on grass?

mengele

Have about 3/4 of my first cut out silage complete. The other 1/4 needs about another week as it was closed later. Need to cover the put tomorrow. Would one sheet be enough with half tyres? Or should I really be putting on the 2 sheets and full tyres? Sheets are new btw.

tanko

Dakota Dan wrote: »

What price is bulk dairy ration now? Would straights do when cows are on grass?

Im not dairying but i think a neighbour said he paid €275/tonne for bulk dairy nuts recently.