Dairy Chitchat 3

jaymla627

C0N0R wrote: »

Quick question guys, just doing a few calculations here, the teagasc profit monitor figures for milk production, do they include the cost of rearing Youngstock??

Nope, it’s a big big bear of mine but then the real profit monitor figures might be a lot more sober reading rather then the small fortune they make out is to be made dairying

straight

Ye will give your cows a complex with all the weighing

C0N0R

Lovely, anyone have a rough cost assuming no more land or labour required and a 20-25% replacement rate?? Cheers teagasc 🙄

jaymla627

C0N0R wrote: »

Lovely, anyone have a rough cost assuming no more land or labour required and a 20-25% replacement rate?? Cheers teagasc ��

3.5 cent a liter would be a good figure, up past 5 cent here as all replacement ground is rented and expanding herd

C0N0R

Sure while I’m here, would someone care to throw a figure of how much above base price a 5500 litre cow will average with reasonably good solids? Say 30 cent milk price?

jaymla627

greysides wrote: »

Interesting, thought-provoking article.

From Two Bulls, 9 Million Dairy Cows

Oman and shottle are the two bulls that really have done the damage re in-breeding, using mostly all out crosses here now as far removed from the above two bulls as possible but very hard to find any bulls that don’t have them in the back pedigrees, I always cringe when you see Oman only maybe two-three generations back on both the dam and bulls side, it couldn’t be logically a good thing re inbreeding

Mooooo

straight wrote: »

Ye will give your cows a complex with all the weighing

I used myself every so often to check the scales and tis myself would want to lay off the biscuit meal I'd say

Timmaay

C0N0R wrote: »

Quick question guys, just doing a few calculations here, the teagasc profit monitor figures for milk production, do they include the cost of rearing Youngstock??

Yes they do! You can however provide them with figures that do not include the cost of heifers but your only fooling yourself. For myown pm I put purchased Incalf heifers down as a fixed cost rather than capital introduced, because what I'm saving by not rearing them myself I spend buying Incalf. Every single "cost of production" c/l figure that is thrown out there needs to come with a list of what is and isn't included, such as replacement heifers, unpaid labour, owned land value etc. That or have a very very very limited and well defined "costs before absolutely anything like heifers, drawings, land charge etc etc", which will be 15c/l, but absolutely isn't the same as cost of production which is very poor defined and open to complete click bail newspaper headlines.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mooooo wrote: »

I used myself every so often to check the scales and tis myself would want to lay off the biscuit meal I'd say

You'd want to be building up condition score now while the weather is good, cheaper than trying to force high quality expensive feed into the poorly conditioned after drying off.

We're still talking about cows, right?:P

C0N0R

Timmaay wrote: »

Yes they do! You can however provide them with figures that do not include the cost of heifers but your only fooling yourself. For myown pm I put purchased Incalf heifers down as a fixed cost rather than capital introduced, because what I'm saving by not rearing them myself I spend buying Incalf. Every single "cost of production" c/l figure that is thrown out there needs to come with a list of what is and isn't included, such as replacement heifers, unpaid labour, owned land value etc. That or have a very very very limited and well defined "costs before absolutely anything like heifers, drawings, land charge etc etc", which will be 15c/l, but absolutely isn't the same as cost of production which is very poor defined and open to complete click bail newspaper headlines.

So would I be correct to say your cop would be lower than the average except for fixed costs then? My assumption was that fertiliser meal vet ai etc was for all as apposed to what was just used for the milking herd but it’s a dangerous assumption to make.

mahoney_j

Zero interest in pm as no faith in them ,no where near accurate enough and u can manipulate it lots of ways ,as a comparasion tool I’d have less time for it as everyone’s system and methods are different for a variety of reasons .my own accounts ,cow performance ,milk and solids sold is all that interests me ,at farm walks I’m always interested in how people manage grass/stocking rates ,cow nutrition ,breeding don’t bother with financials as it ain’t any of my business and can be complex with drawings ,wages etc profit monitors don’t show this ,whole farm profit with all costs accounted for after tax is the bottom line

awaywithyou

out of interest lads what do ye think a cow should be yielding at this time of year?? see a guy on facebook there with cows ndoing 16.8 litres/day high solids no meal and he got 39c/l for his may milk...

anyone know him..? does he milk once-a-day?? in fairness his solids and price are good.... i think the litres sound very low for the time of year... my worry is what will they be doing in sept/oct even august.... wil they even pay the esb bill??

boggerman1

Down in the herd test again today.2 cows.locked up since last October.passed one test and now 2 in a row.both cows had nothing the previous tests,flat as could be.fair annoying at this stage.and the ones gone already killed out ok.

C0N0R

mahoney_j wrote: »

Zero interest in pm as no faith in them ,no where near accurate enough and u can manipulate it lots of ways ,as a comparasion tool I’d have less time for it as everyone’s system and methods are different for a variety of reasons .my own accounts ,cow performance ,milk and solids sold is all that interests me ,at farm walks I’m always interested in how people manage grass/stocking rates ,cow nutrition ,breeding don’t bother with financials as it ain’t any of my business and can be complex with drawings ,wages etc profit monitors don’t show this ,whole farm profit with all costs accounted for after tax is the bottom line

Oh I fully agree with you on that, accuracy is questionable with some of the profit monitors. But for a lad trying to throw some rough figures together, it’s surely a start.

mahoney_j

C0N0R wrote: »

Oh I fully agree with you on that, accuracy is questionable with some of the profit monitors. But for a lad trying to throw some rough figures together, it’s surely a start.

A start but I wouldn’t put a huge emphasis on them ,putting out cop of high teens low 20s is dangerous and plain wrong ,there has to be gdpr issues there as well .a guide but that’s it

Mooooo

awaywithyou wrote: »

out of interest lads what do ye think a cow should be yielding at this time of year?? see a guy on facebook there with cows ndoing 16.8 litres/day high solids no meal and he got 39c/l for his may milk...

anyone know him..? does he milk once-a-day?? in fairness his solids and price are good.... i think the litres sound very low for the time of year... my worry is what will they be doing in sept/oct even august.... wil they even pay the esb bill??

Dunno depends on the cows really. Doing between 26 and 27 litres or so, a bit up and down as grazing poor quality paddocks at the minute still on 4kgs. 3.74bf 3.6p. Have better quality coming in soon. You would be afraid of his drying early in the year really if he's at 16 now but I dunno how they will hold up. Young herd here so don't see mine holding high late in the year and may dry off some early to give a good dry period for next year

Mooooo

boggerman1 wrote: »

Down in the herd test again today.2 cows.locked up since last October.passed one test and now 2 in a row.both cows had nothing the previous tests,flat as could be.fair annoying at this stage.and the ones gone already killed out ok.

Tis a bollox. Will be testing soon here. Thought badgers may be the issue till a deer was spotted breaking thru wire in the out farm. At least it explained what drove the calves mad last year

Buford T. Justice XIX

awaywithyou wrote: »

out of interest lads what do ye think a cow should be yielding at this time of year?? see a guy on facebook there with cows ndoing 16.8 litres/day high solids no meal and he got 39c/l for his may milk...

anyone know him..? does he milk once-a-day?? in fairness his solids and price are good.... i think the litres sound very low for the time of year... my worry is what will they be doing in sept/oct even august.... wil they even pay the esb bill??

Came across him on Twitter, OAD I think alright. He seems happy enough with his profitability.

GrasstoMilk

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Came across him on Twitter, OAD I think alright. He seems happy enough with his profitability.

He's TAD did 380 kgs last year.
Alot of lads there telling him he should be doing it different, maybe he should but it's his herd and if he can make a living out of it does it matter?
If the lad wants advice he'll ask for it, no need to ram it down his neck whether he wants it or not.

Not directed at you Bu!

Timmaay

I took a heavy 1st cut of drycow stuff the last day of May, pure white underneath, which usually takes 2wks to even green up after. 21days later it has a cover of 1100 on it.. I've never seen grass recover as quick before. Its a fresh reseed though

awaywithyou

boggerman1 wrote: »

Down in the herd test again today.2 cows.locked up since last October.passed one test and now 2 in a row.both cows had nothing the previous tests,flat as could be.fair annoying at this stage.and the ones gone already killed out ok.

have ya had them blooded for tb??

boggerman1

awaywithyou wrote: »

have ya had them blooded for tb??

The ones gone already were blooded,showed up positive but killed out negative.I assume these new 2 will be blood tested next week

awaywithyou

boggerman1 wrote: »

The ones gone already were blooded,showed up positive but killed out negative.I assume these new 2 will be blood tested next week

has the entire herd or those over 9mths old been blooded?

boggerman1

awaywithyou wrote: »

has the entire herd or those over 9mths old been blooded?

No.i guess that could be next on the agenda

Timmaay

They wanted me to blood test the full herd after 5 went down to tb, apparently if less than 5% of the herd is down then its no compulsory, so I decided not to. Hard to know if I should of taken the hit or not but I've herd of too many farms where blood test postives show up negative in the factory and it doesn't hugely help eliminate the problem.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

They wanted me to blood test the full herd after 5 went down to tb, apparently if less than 5% of the herd is down then its no compulsory, so I decided not to. Hard to know if I should of taken the hit or not but I've herd of too many farms where blood test postives show up negative in the factory and it doesn't hugely help eliminate the problem.

When are you testing again?

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

When are you testing again?

July 8th

visatorro

Timmaay wrote: »

July 8th

Same day as me, dept test as well!

whelan2

visatorro wrote: »

Same day as me, dept test as well!

Is that your annual test?

visatorro

whelan2 wrote: »

Is that your annual test?

No. Neighbours are down

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

They wanted me to blood test the full herd after 5 went down to tb, apparently if less than 5% of the herd is down then its no compulsory, so I decided not to. Hard to know if I should of taken the hit or not but I've herd of too many farms where blood test postives show up negative in the factory and it doesn't hugely help eliminate the problem.

Bordering farm beside us on a outfarm went down with a good few reactors in March, he’s a walking b**k so hadn’t the courtesy of a phone call at the time to inform us, heard it secondhand of another neighbor, department only sent out the letter informing us he’s locked up last week....
It’s a joke of a system, had 5 inconclusives last year that all passed on the 60 day retest and all passed again this year, 3k of milk down the drain and not a penny of compensation

awaywithyou

Timmaay wrote: »

They wanted me to blood test the full herd after 5 went down to tb, apparently if less than 5% of the herd is down then its no compulsory, so I decided not to. Hard to know if I should of taken the hit or not but I've herd of too many farms where blood test postives show up negative in the factory and it doesn't hugely help eliminate the problem.

blooding will eliminate the problem........

Mooooo

awaywithyou wrote: »

blooding will eliminate the problem........

Don't think it will. Blooded two years running down 40 cow's. Had 2 clear tests since last year but must test every 6 months now for 3 tests. Still not confident tbh. Esp if wildlife is the source

mahoney_j

Tb testing is big industry for vets and Dept ,no correlation beteween skin ,blood and culture .whole system is a joke and no willingness to eradicate it trying for 60 years and not even close yet .

awaywithyou

Mooooo wrote: »

Don't think it will. Blooded two years running down 40 cow's. Had 2 clear tests since last year but must test every 6 months now for 3 tests. Still not confident tbh. Esp if wildlife is the source

are u clear or locked up at the moment? we had a woeful tb breakdown 8 yrs ago was locked up for 2yrs... lost over 200 cows and every calf born in the year 2011 went down and every calf born in Jan 2012 went down... we were rejecting the blood test route for a while until it was forced on us..... in fairness we had 2 clear tests after it and have been clear since... and we are being tested every 4mths since which is a pain but handy for getting the vaccinations done...

Mooooo

awaywithyou wrote: »

are u clear or locked up at the moment? we had a woeful tb breakdown 8 yrs ago was locked up for 2yrs... lost over 200 cows and every calf born in the year 2011 went down and every calf born in Jan 2012 went down... we were rejecting the blood test route for a while until it was forced on us..... in fairness we had 2 clear tests after it and have been clear since... and we are being tested every 4mths since which is a pain but handy for getting the vaccinations done...

Kinda clear. Had 2nd clear in Jan, since march Can only sell younger than 6 weeks, and they can't go for export, some new rule brought in. Must test any time before the second week of August when if I go clear I can trade as normal but test every6 months. 2 years ago had 3 reactors and 3 doubtfuls which were upgraded. Blooded and 16 more followed. Had a clear test and then had 1 reactor and 4 doubtfuls in next test start of last year, blooded again and 13 more followed out the gate. So will see how we go. All 17 cultured last year and no sign of it in cultures.

Brown Podzol

mahoney_j wrote: »

A start but I wouldn’t put a huge emphasis on them ,putting out cop of high teens low 20s is dangerous and plain wrong ,there has to be gdpr issues there as well .a guide but that’s it

I net off the receipts for calves and cull cows against the cost of replacements and anytime I did the detailed figures it proved accurate enough. So to get a quick rough cop just don’t include the cost of replacements or the receipts for calf or cull cow sales.

Timmaay

Mooooo wrote: »

Don't think it will. Blooded two years running down 40 cow's. Had 2 clear tests since last year but must test every 6 months now for 3 tests. Still not confident tbh. Esp if wildlife is the source

This was a strong point of mine, 2 of my neighbours went down also, after years of us all being free of tb, so I was not happy to go straight in and blood test, lose a load of animals now, especially while cows at peak production (and a very poor compensation for loss of milk), and while we are unsure of the wildlife influence, which could bring it back into the herd immediately after I took the hit.

cute geoge

Coming back to your man that got 39 cent for may milk ,would we be better off following his example by cutting out meal if their is sufficient grass in the diet .Is it just a fools game pumping out milk at 30 odd cent per litre .In fairness he is making a big margin per litre Could it be possible he would be making as much profit as lads supplying twice his amount of milk!

Buford T. Justice XIX

awaywithyou wrote: »

blooding will eliminate the problem........

Yeah, no cattle, no TB:D

A friend of mine gone down at the herd test, took another 5 with bloods and says they're talking about more bloods being done next time.

A few miles west of you.

C4d78

cute geoge wrote: »

Coming back to your man that got 39 cent for may milk ,would we be better off following his example by cutting out meal if their is sufficient grass in the diet .Is it just a fools game pumping out milk at 30 odd cent per litre .In fairness he is making a big margin per litre Could it be possible he would be making as much profit as lads supplying twice his amount of milk!

I’m feeding 2 kg of meal doing 27L @4.08 & 3.61
Over9€/cow in sales
Cost of meal 50c
Net =8.5

18L@39c
=€7
Think 1-2 kgs meal pays for itself. IMO
That and the added value of cover for cal mg & minerals

mahoney_j

cute geoge wrote: »

Coming back to your man that got 39 cent for may milk ,would we be better off following his example by cutting out meal if their is sufficient grass in the diet .Is it just a fools game pumping out milk at 30 odd cent per litre .In fairness he is making a big margin per litre Could it be possible he would be making as much profit as lads supplying twice his amount of milk!

Not criticizing the chap as it’s hisxway and in fairness he is very open re what he dose .we are paid for kgms tho and whilst he may be making a good margin now he is supplying low Ltrs and relatively low kgms ,it would be a fair struggle if not impossible to develop ,expand a farm and provide a wage and good drawings to support a mortgage and family unless at a big scale simillar to New Zealand

farisfat

cute geoge wrote: »

Coming back to your man that got 39 cent for may milk ,would we be better off following his example by cutting out meal if their is sufficient grass in the diet .Is it just a fools game pumping out milk at 30 odd cent per litre .In fairness he is making a big margin per litre Could it be possible he would be making as much profit as lads supplying twice his amount of milk!

Is he oad I'm hearing some great results of fertility from oad herds and lonativity.....with replacement costing 1500 Euro it might not be all about kgs.

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

Not criticizing the chap as it’s hisxway and in fairness he is very open re what he dose .we are paid for kgms tho and whilst he may be making a good margin now he is supplying low Ltrs and relatively low kgms ,it would be a fair struggle if not impossible to develop ,expand a farm and provide a wage and good drawings to support a mortgage and family unless at a big scale simillar to New Zealand

I 100% agree mj and I wouldbt agree on his system but it's his so he can do what he likes.
36c for Mays milk here.

mahoney_j

farisfat wrote: »

Is he oad I'm hearing some great results of fertility from oad herds and lonativity.....with replacement costing 1500 Euro it might not be all about kgs.

We are paid for kgms not cent per liter ,great fertility results are in both oad and tad herds ,ditto longevity .good management and cows to suit whatever system u want are key .a very close eye needs to be kept on nitrates ,derogation and the green agenda as big changes dictated by these are going to affect us in a big way in future years

Farney Farmer

Could ya spread urea today guys? It’s pretty warm and dry but rain forecast for tomorrow and Monday.

Mooooo

Farney Farmer wrote: »

Could ya spread urea today guys? It’s pretty warm and dry but rain forecast for tomorrow and Monday.

There would likely be losses. Later in the evening would be better if tis all you have in the yard

mahoney_j

Farney Farmer wrote: »

Could ya spread urea today guys? It’s pretty warm and dry but rain forecast for tomorrow and Monday.

No bother but as moo said later in evening ,no can spread here this year all urea and mostly protected urea with s .we may get used to it .

orm0nd

any body giving garlic licks to heifers as fly prevetention?

Farney Farmer

mahoney_j wrote: »

Farney Farmer wrote: »

Could ya spread urea today guys? It’s pretty warm and dry but rain forecast for tomorrow and Monday.

No bother but as moo said later in evening ,no can spread here this year all urea and mostly protected urea with s .we may get used to it .

Thanks lads