Dairy Chitchat 3

whelan2

orm0nd wrote: »

any body giving garlic licks to heifers as fly prevetention?

I used them with dry cows but put tar on them too

farisfat

mahoney_j wrote: »

We are paid for kgms not cent per liter ,great fertility results are in both oad and tad herds ,ditto longevity .good management and cows to suit whatever system u want are key .a very close eye needs to be kept on nitrates ,derogation and the green agenda as big changes dictated by these are going to affect us in a big way in future years

Theirs alot of good herds but their in the minority.
From what I've seen alot of herds have 30% empty rates.
And I think the national average is 2.9 lactations.

Gawddawggonnit

whelan2 wrote: »

I used them with dry cows but put tar on them too

Nothing works for flies except lambda cyhalothrin infused ear tags. They can be bought in the US for about €2 per head. I can’t remember the product name but I can find out when I’m home.
Excellent coverage for 6mts guaranteed.

Edit. ‘The man in red and black’ from here was the one who put me onto them and I’m very grateful indeed.

Gawddawggonnit

farisfat wrote: »

And I think the national average is 2.9 lactations.

Surely more?
Average in France is 2.4 lactations, and the vast majority are pure holstein.

jaymla627

mahoney_j wrote: »

We are paid for kgms not cent per liter ,great fertility results are in both oad and tad herds ,ditto longevity .good management and cows to suit whatever system u want are key .a very close eye needs to be kept on nitrates ,derogation and the green agenda as big changes dictated by these are going to affect us in a big way in future years

Wouldn’t be far fetched to say 6 months plus slurry storage will be mandatory, trailing shoe mandatory,allowable fertilizer rates slashed and 170kgs and lower will be the new maximum stocking rates, could be a reference year like occurred in Holland too re establishing milk production rights....
All points to having to have a high production 600kgs ms plus cow where their is nice levels of debt in the business

Mooooo

The 170 kgs etc may be left alone but the value attributed to the cow may be increased, which is the same thing essentially 're sr

Gawddawggonnit

jaymla627 wrote: »

Wouldn’t be far fetched to say 6 months plus slurry storage will be mandatory, trailing shoe mandatory,allowable fertilizer rates slashed and 170kgs and lower will be the new maximum stocking rates, could be a reference year like occurred in Holland too re establishing milk production rights....
All points to having to have a high production 600kgs ms plus cow where their is nice levels of debt in the business

Fertilizer cannot be regulated in Ireland because nobody has a clue about the amount of tons imported...
Teagasc will fight tooth and nail to ‘average’ N usage across the state but the French/Dutch/Austrians won’t have it. That’s why each and every farm here is monitored using soil and water analysis...

In fairness you don’t have to be a genius to understand that if you include the mountains and bogs in the nitrate usage of say, the intensive dairy areas, you’ll get an average N usage close or beneath what I’m allowed, namely 44units/acre.

Edit. I’ll wager that there’ll be no ‘milk production rights’ in Ireland. Why would there be? There’s loads of processing capacity in all the Coops...

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Fertilizer cannot be regulated in Ireland because nobody has a clue about the amount of tons imported...
Teagasc will fight tooth and nail to ‘average’ N usage across the state but the French/Dutch/Austrians won’t have it. That’s why each and every farm here is monitored using soil and water analysis...

In fairness you don’t have to be a genius to understand that if you include the mountains and bogs in the nitrate usage of say, the intensive dairy areas, you’ll get an average N usage close or beneath what I’m allowed, namely 44units/acre.

Edit. I’ll wager that there’ll be no ‘milk production rights’ in Ireland. Why would there be? There’s loads of processing capacity in all the Coops...

Its a phosphorus quota in Holland, bit of a balls of a system really

Mooooo

Also with the Dutch a population of what 17 million people and more dairy cow's than Ireland in an area the size of Munster. Countries aren't straight forwardly comparable all the time.

Gawddawggonnit

Mooooo wrote: »

Its a phosphorus quota in Holland, bit of a balls of a system really

Clay (polder) soils are quite problematic with regards P leaching. The Dutch Dept of Ag were complicit in sweeping the issue under the carpet...ring any bells?

Friend of mine farms in the Marne (between Paris and Eurodisney) and Dutch farmers sent him between 14 and 20 artics of slurry per DAY while he was planting sbeet this spring. Easily costing €2k+ per load...and highly illégal.
Go figure.

Edit. Nitrogen leaching would be more problematic in light, free draining soils.

It’s also a bit disingenuous to the Dutch to focus on land area/cow no’s/population when every sqm is farmed efficiently with no mountains/waste etc.
The Dutch must be green-eyed when they’ve to go to extreme cost to dump slurry and in the wild west it’s virtually a free-for-all...

Water John

Jeremy takes a risk with his opening, fair play to him. The contrast with Boris is massive but they won't see it.

Dakota Dan

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

He's TAD did 380 kgs last year.
Alot of lads there telling him he should be doing it different, maybe he should but it's his herd and if he can make a living out of it does it matter?
If the lad wants advice he'll ask for it, no need to ram it down his neck whether he wants it or not.

Not directed at you Bu!

There’s some farmer in limerick milking cross needs OAD and is organic he sells some of his milk for cheese and the rest for the shelf his own brand. He got average 65c/l last year and expects 70 this year. He fed no meal during the drought last year and milk yield averaged 2200l/cow normally 3300l/cow.

Castlekeeper

C4d78 wrote: »

I’m feeding 2 kg of meal doing 27L @4.08 & 3.61
Over9€/cow in sales
Cost of meal 50c
Net =8.5

18L@39c
=€7
Think 1-2 kgs meal pays for itself. IMO
That and the added value of cover for cal mg & minerals

Except they're only milking once.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Clay (polder) soils are quite problematic with regards P leaching. The Dutch Dept of Ag were complicit in sweeping the issue under the carpet...ring any bells?

Friend of mine farms in the Marne (between Paris and Eurodisney) and Dutch farmers sent him between 14 and 20 artics of slurry per DAY while he was planting sbeet this spring. Easily costing €2k+ per load...and highly illégal.
Go figure.

Edit. Nitrogen leaching would be more problematic in light, free draining soils.

It’s also a bit disingenuous to the Dutch to focus on land area/cow no’s/population when every sqm is farmed efficiently with no mountains/waste etc.
The Dutch must be green-eyed when they’ve to go to extreme cost to dump slurry and in the wild west it’s virtually a free-for-all...

Isn't it that clay soils have a problem with run off and mineral soils have a problem with leaching?

Keepgrowing

C0N0R wrote: »

Quick question guys, just doing a few calculations here, the teagasc profit monitor figures for milk production, do they include the cost of rearing Youngstock??

Yes

GrasstoMilk

Dakota Dan wrote: »

There’s some farmer in limerick milking cross needs OAD and is organic he sells some of his milk for cheese and the rest for the shelf his own brand. He got average 65c/l last year and expects 70 this year. He fed no meal during the drought last year and milk yield averaged 2200l/cow normally 3300l/cow.

That was an agriland article recently? Think I read it. He's probably bringing in the same money per cow as a normal system but cant stock as high. Wouldnt suit me but its probably a nice relaxed lifestyle

Dakota Dan

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

That was an agriland article recently? Think I read it. He's probably bringing in the same money per cow as a normal system but cant stock as high. Wouldnt suit me but its probably a nice relaxed lifestyle

Yes that’s the one. Mostly straw bedding as well which is one of his big costs.

Water John

The farm was an Teagasc organic walk a few weeks ago. Discussed at the time here. Buying in straw is one way to bring in product which goes onto the land as dung. Made the decision last year not to buy in meal in the summer drought which would have cost about €600/Ton from UK.
Teagasc have a number of advisors who take a specific interest in OAD.

straight

cute geoge wrote: »

Coming back to your man that got 39 cent for may milk ,would we be better off following his example by cutting out meal if their is sufficient grass in the diet .Is it just a fools game pumping out milk at 30 odd cent per litre .In fairness he is making a big margin per litre Could it be possible he would be making as much profit as lads supplying twice his amount of milk!

I dunno why anybody even talks about cent per litre anymore. You are paid for solids minus volume. I got 31 cent for may milk but when I divide my may cheque by cow numbers I got 295 euro per cow for may. How does that measure up with the guys on higher cent per litre?

cute geoge

straight wrote: »

I dunno why anybody even talks about cent per litre anymore. You are paid for solids minus volume. I got 31 cent for may milk but when I divide my may cheque by cow numbers I got 295 euro per cow for may. How does that measure up with the guys on higher cent per litre?

Your the 1st man i heard talk the price made per cow per month and surely it is the best way to measure performance and deduct the cost of ration per month would be another idea

Say my name

Water John wrote: »

The farm was an Teagasc organic walk a few weeks ago. Discussed at the time here. Buying in straw is one way to bring in product which goes onto the land as dung. Made the decision last year not to buy in meal in the summer drought which would have cost about €600/Ton from UK.
Teagasc have a number of advisors who take a specific interest in OAD.

I think he had his own bottling plant?

I'd say the decision to go OAD was an easy one considering he'd probably be the other half of the day doing the milk round.

I used a bit of bark mulchy woodchip this year as bedding. Too wet and it wasn't great bedding but it put staw dung in the hay penny place as manure on the land.
Lovely heart now on the field after it.

Dakota Dan

Say my name wrote: »

I think he had his own bottling plant?

I'd say the decision to go OAD was an easy one considering he'd probably be the other half of the day doing the milk round.

I used a bit of bark mulchy woodchip this year as bedding. Too wet and it wasn't great bedding but it put staw dung in the hay penny place as manure on the land.
Lovely heart now on the field after it.

They say dung is great for soil.

mahoney_j

orm0nd wrote: »

any body giving garlic licks to heifers as fly prevetention?

Yellow spot on once per month ,do all calves and maidens from mid June to August .cows got eprinex a week ago and will get the spot on again in late July .never heard of the garlic boluses

Grueller

Not sure is this the right place for this but I want ideas shot down, critiqued etc.

I have off farm income and sucklers. I have only ever relied milked for one summer when I was a student. I have 38 acres that I could walk cows to. I have an out farm that can provide silage and rear heifers. Would I be able to carry 50 miles? I am flexible enough around off farm work and do an average of four hours per day.
I have 68 cubicle spaces, and enough calving pens etc. so no need to build winter housing.
I can gather 100k from stock sales. This will buy cows and put a good few euros left over to set up paddocks and water. I would need to do a bit of reseeding and have roadways that would just need to be re surfaced.
I would plan on a 10 unit 2nd hand parlour to get started. I would fit this between two existing sheds and only need a bare roof overhead to create a shed.
I haven't mentioned another 16 acres at the home block that I can't walk stock to but could zero graze and house stock at night or just bake lots of high quality silage off and feed out as needed.
That is the bones of it lads. I am sick of working for nothing at sucklers. What sort of profit per cow is achievable in the system I have outlined? Am I mad.

steer

straight wrote: »

cute geoge wrote: »

Coming back to your man that got 39 cent for may milk ,would we be better off following his example by cutting out meal if their is sufficient grass in the diet .Is it just a fools game pumping out milk at 30 odd cent per litre .In fairness he is making a big margin per litre Could it be possible he would be making as much profit as lads supplying twice his amount of milk!

I dunno why anybody even talks about cent per litre anymore. You are paid for solids minus volume. I got 31 cent for may milk but when I divide my may cheque by cow numbers I got 295 euro per cow for may. How does that measure up with the guys on higher cent per litre?

Is that a spring calving herd?

Water John

So Grueller, you have 54 acres total to allocate as a grazing block, that doesn't have to carry replacements. 50 cows would be very conservative.

straight

steer wrote: »

Is that a spring calving herd?

Ya, spring calving

Mooooo

Grueller wrote: »

Not sure is this the right place for this but I want ideas shot down, critiqued etc.

I have off farm income and sucklers. I have only ever relied milked for one summer when I was a student. I have 38 acres that I could walk cows to. I have an out farm that can provide silage and rear heifers. Would I be able to carry 50 miles? I am flexible enough around off farm work and do an average of four hours per day.
I have 68 cubicle spaces, and enough calving pens etc. so no need to build winter housing.
I can gather 100k from stock sales. This will buy cows and put a good few euros left over to set up paddocks and water. I would need to do a bit of reseeding and have roadways that would just need to be re surfaced.
I would plan on a 10 unit 2nd hand parlour to get started. I would fit this between two existing sheds and only need a bare roof overhead to create a shed.
I haven't mentioned another 16 acres at the home block that I can't walk stock to but could zero graze and house stock at night or just bake lots of high quality silage off and feed out as needed.
That is the bones of it lads. I am sick of working for nothing at sucklers. What sort of profit per cow is achievable in the system I have outlined? Am I mad.

What's the ground like? From April/ May to Aug/ Sep I generally have the cows at 4/ ha so just on stocking rate the 38 acres could hold 60 cow's full time at grass for that period and use the 16 acres to zerograze at the shoulders if needed and make quality bales, maximum growing 6 weeks, for feeding also. Keeping calving tight, calf facilities right is important with a job. Also good contractors for baling etc. Using the outfarm and the 16 acres in the autumn to keep young stock out as long as practical as well maybe. You don't want to get caught up doing the machinery work so focusing on good silage may be better than zerograzing. If there is a discussion group around see if you can join as well
Edit how big is silage and replacement block. 2.6/ ha all stock over whole farm is a good target

whelan2

Lad who is milking at home while I'm away milked for a lad this morning before my place. This farmer milks at 3.30am as he reckons solids are better. I think it's crazy. What do ye think?

Signpost

whelan2 wrote: »

Lad who is milking at home while I'm away milked for a lad this morning before my place. This farmer milks at 3.30am as he reckons solids are better. I think it's crazy. What do ye think?

If you can market crazy you'll make a fortune! http://www.lullabymilk.com/

GrasstoMilk

Signpost wrote: »

If you can market crazy you'll make a fortune! http://www.lullabymilk.com/

Used lullaby milk here for our little girl. It's the only thing that got her to sleep at night. She was awake all night for her first year, after a few days of using that milk she slept whole nights and would go from 7pm.
Theres definitely something in it any way

whelan2

Signpost wrote: »

If you can market crazy you'll make a fortune! http://www.lullabymilk.com/

He's on the same daily collection as me. Which incidentally we didn't get our extra payment for this year yet. Normally get it in may. Totally not worth the hassle

orm0nd

whelan2 wrote: »

Lad who is milking at home while I'm away milked for a lad this morning before my place. This farmer milks at 3.30am as he reckons solids are better. I think it's crazy. What do ye think?

Dunno, but I won't be trying to prove him right or wrong anytime in the near future.

Grueller

Water John wrote: »

So Grueller, you have 54 acres total to allocate as a grazing block, that doesn't have to carry replacements. 50 cows would be very conservative.

Ya I would only be counting the 38 acres for the 50 cows really. I am reluctant to count the 16 as it complicates the system by bringing in machinery work. Also I am new to this so want to find my feet and hold the job.

GrasstoMilk

Grueller wrote: »

Ya I would only be counting the 38 acres for the 50 cows really. I am reluctant to count the 16 as it complicates the system by bringing in machinery work. Also I am new to this so want to find my feet and hold the job.

How far away is the way acres?
Any chance of swapping it with a neighbour who has land bounding you?

Grueller

Mooooo wrote: »

What's the ground like? From April/ May to Aug/ Sep I generally have the cows at 4/ ha so just on stocking rate the 38 acres could hold 60 cow's full time at grass for that period and use the 16 acres to zerograze at the shoulders if needed and make quality bales, maximum growing 6 weeks, for feeding also. Keeping calving tight, calf facilities right is important with a job. Also good contractors for baling etc. Using the outfarm and the 16 acres in the autumn to keep young stock out as long as practical as well maybe. You don't want to get caught up doing the machinery work so focusing on good silage may be better than zerograzing. If there is a discussion group around see if you can join as well
Edit how big is silage and replacement block. 2.6/ ha all stock over whole farm is a good target

Ground is very good for the grazing block. Free draining and I generally have some of the sucklers out on it from late February until at least mid November.
Silage block and replacement ground at out farm is 78 acres. It is over 8 miles from the yard though. It would nearly make sense to milk out there but it is a complete Greenfield and I live at the home farm.
I assume that you mean cut the 16 acres every 5 weeks for quality silage to avoid the zero grazing option. I would have thought that the zero grazer would have worked out the cheaper option?
Whole farm is 54 ha roughly. So roughly 130 head of stock by your calculation Mooooo. I would think that 50 cows, keep my replacements and also keep my 8-10 pedigree Limousins on the out farm as a hobby as it doesn't suit the milking system.
Like I said, please cut my ideas to shreds.

Grueller

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

How far away is the way acres?
Any chance of swapping it with a neighbour who has land bounding you?

8 miles so that is out unfortunately.
I tried the 16 for a swap with a neighbour a couple of years ago but no joy. His son has the reins now so I will try him again.

C0N0R

whelan2 wrote: »

Lad who is milking at home while I'm away milked for a lad this morning before my place. This farmer milks at 3.30am as he reckons solids are better. I think it's crazy. What do ye think?

We milk four times a day at find the 6pm and 12am milking have lower butter fat, would be 3.3 on the night ****s and up to 3.6 on the 6am shift and 3.5 on the 12pm shift. Testing done in house on individual solos so results are accurate and consistent.

Castlekeeper

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yellow spot on once per month ,do all calves and maidens from mid June to August .cows got eprinex a week ago and will get the spot on again in late July .never heard of the garlic boluses

That's a fairly hefty regime of dosing, I've actually never heard of one this intensive before. Is there a background reason for this being do are has it just gradually escalated over time?
Until recently mature animals were never wormed and fly control was only an issue for autumn calvers. I'd be concerned on the effect of this level of pesticides on soil biology.

OffalyMedic

Have done 3 supervised milkings now in 2 different parlors trying to get used to it as part of best practice in milking course and hope to go do relief milking but I can't for love or money get my head around the start up procedures and clean up routine!

whelan2

OffalyMedic wrote: »

Have done 3 supervised milkings now in 2 different parlors trying to get used to it as part of best practice in milking course and hope to go do relief milking but I can't for love or money get my head around the start up procedures and clean up routine!

I wrote out baby steps for my eldest lad while I'm away. 4 pages of it. I normally start milking while he goes for the cows and I wash down etc while he closes in the cows. He was on his own this evening. Most important bit is check milk is going into tank. Keep antibiotic cows milk out and dont rush things

OffalyMedic

whelan2 wrote:

I wrote out baby steps for my eldest lad while I'm away. 4 pages of it. I normally start milking while he goes for the cows and I wash down etc while he closes in the cows. He was on his own this evening. Most important bit is check milk is going into tank. Keep antibiotic cows milk out and dont rush things

Yeah my next plan is to write out every step next time and then just repeat and repeat and repeat

Buford T. Justice XIX

Grueller wrote: »

Ground is very good for the grazing block. Free draining and I generally have some of the sucklers out on it from late February until at least mid November.
Silage block and replacement ground at out farm is 78 acres. It is over 8 miles from the yard though. It would nearly make sense to milk out there but it is a complete Greenfield and I live at the home farm.
I assume that you mean cut the 16 acres every 5 weeks for quality silage to avoid the zero grazing option. I would have thought that the zero grazer would have worked out the cheaper option?
Whole farm is 54 ha roughly. So roughly 130 head of stock by your calculation Mooooo. I would think that 50 cows, keep my replacements and also keep my 8-10 pedigree Limousins on the out farm as a hobby as it doesn't suit the milking system.
Like I said, please cut my ideas to shreds.

Just a few ideas I've seen lads at round here.

One lad has a second parlour and tank in the outfarm. First rotation on the home farm and all cows out to the out farm until the last rotation. Some surplus cut on the outfarm and fed to slow rotation or before the cows are brought home for the last rotation. He justifies this by saying he doesn't have to be drawing silage back and slurry out to the other farm. Something for the longer term maybe?

The other lad has a very highly stocked home block and zero grazes some nearby rented blocks and cows have access to this every evening for an hour of more before milking. The down side is constantly spreading slurry and needing someone to draw in feed every day but again, he runs a highly profitable system and feels it's justified.

With an off farm job, one thing I would be inclined to do would be to use an easy calving beef bull with the cows and buy in replacements. Good calf prices and calves only around for 3 or 4 weeks tops so replacement won't be tying up time and putting pressure on the system. At least until you have a better idea what you want to do longer term.

And when you're putting in the parlour, leave room for another few units. You'll milk cows faster with an extra 2 or 3 per round over having an extra smaller round of cows. Again, one for the future.

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

Lad who is milking at home while I'm away milked for a lad this morning before my place. This farmer milks at 3.30am as he reckons solids are better. I think it's crazy. What do ye think?

Fair play to him but I’ll have 3 more hours sleep before I start ,better solids or not !!!!

Buford T. Justice XIX

OffalyMedic wrote: »

Have done 3 supervised milkings now in 2 different parlors trying to get used to it as part of best practice in milking course and hope to go do relief milking but I can't for love or money get my head around the start up procedures and clean up routine!

That'll all come with experience and every parlour has a different wash routine, just to keep the relief milkers on their toes:)

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

How far away is the way acres?
Any chance of swapping it with a neighbour who has land bounding you?

Great point and makes perfect sense if everything lined up but from my experience it would be flat no .some just don’t want to see others progress for fear they might loose out etc

Water John

Grueller fair size on the outfarm. If you do go for a zero grazer, despite it being 8 miles it would be reachable if you ran tight. Not a regular drive though.
For people I know on around 50 cows it's very tight on it's own, but you have another income source. If you were farming only the dif between 50 and 75 cows is important as your fixed costs are close on the same.

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

I wrote out baby steps for my eldest lad while I'm away. 4 pages of it. I normally start milking while he goes for the cows and I wash down etc while he closes in the cows. He was on his own this evening. Most important bit is check milk is going into tank. Keep antibiotic cows milk out and dont rush things

I got a page for both before and after milking printed out and laminated here, that I did up in Ms Word, complete with photos etc. About 7 or 8 individual steps in each. I usually only need to shadow any new milker's for at most 2 milkings before they get the hang of it, 1st milking you largely show them what to do while they read the instructions, 2nd milking you let them fully do it themselves, and correct anything if needs. After a week they usually have it all fully remembered and don't need the list.

Grueller

Given the higher fixed costs per cow at 50 cows, what profit per cow is realistic? My accountant reckons €800-€1000. Is he correct?

Timmaay

Water John wrote: »

Grueller fair size on the outfarm. If you do go for a zero grazer, despite it being 8 miles it would be reachable if you ran tight. Not a regular drive though.
For people I know on around 50 cows it's very tight on it's own, but you have another income source. If you were farming only the dif between 50 and 75 cows is important as your fixed costs are close on the same.

Personally I think 50 cows is just too few, and very hard to justify how tied down to the system that you are, milking TAD, calving season erc. 75 would make a hell of alot more, 50 cows doing 5500l/yr would give you 82k in milksales (asuuming 30e/l), whereas the 75 would be 124k, that's a hell of a different, if you can hang onto a 1/3 as your salary that's 27k with the 50 cows against 41k with the 75, and them 75 will be very little extra work.