Nvidia RTX Discussion

cherryghost

JoyPad wrote: »

Does this survey include all computers where Steam is installed, or just computers where people are actually playing games?
I wonder how many people have Steam installed on computers simply to use the chat feature or browse things (e.g. work computers, not gaming PCs).

Where steam is installed, and where you have opted in to the hardware survey (its not mandatory)

Confused11811

A big drop of RX 3060 on mindfactory.de overnight. Currently 4 models in stock from €599 to €650.

Overpriced for what they are and you'd need mailbox.de to freight forward but probably better priced than most 2nd hand ones on adverts and eBay. A couple of cheaper rtx 2060's where available too , just a 2060 super at €580 left now

Hopefully a sign of more retail stock coming in.

H3llR4iser

JoyPad wrote: »

Does this survey include all computers where Steam is installed, or just computers where people are actually playing games?
I wonder how many people have Steam installed on computers simply to use the chat feature or browse things (e.g. work computers, not gaming PCs).

IIRC, it's actually an "opt-in", it's not data that Steam collects automatically. I've been prompted a few times with "Steam would like to conduct a survey..." dialogs in the past - interestingly, on the laptop much more often than on my main rig (as such, I'm partly responsible for the high ranking of the 1050Ti ).

There's bound to be a certain amount of the situations you mention, but their impact on the overall figure would be mostly felt in binary-type stats, e.g. the Intel/AMD distribution is definitely skewed, to some extent, by laptops and possibly people putting stuff like their old 2500k to secondary PC/internet rig use.

When it comes to GPUs...the data is much more organic in nature; When you got products literally flying off the online "shelves" the moment they're stocked, they'd be bound to show up in it if they were put to their intended use.

While it could be argued that the 3080 and 3090 figures might not be too unusual for components that are indeed highly expensive, the poor showing of the 3060Ti and most tellingly, the fact 3070s and the entire Radeon 6xxx series not being anywhere, despite also being impossible to buy, simply tells that these end up somewhere else.

Cuddlesworth

H3llR4iser wrote: »

As generic as the Steam Hardware Survey can be, the fact that two entire lines of GPU that sell out the moment they're stocked, regardless of the price, are basically nonexistent in it puts the "unprecedented demand from gamers" discussion to bed. The majority of these cards end up in mining rigs - or gatering dust in some scalper's bedroom.

But your not comparing like for like, your comparing older low end cheaper cards to the new high end cards. The 3080 being out 6 months and being at .74% is bloody impressive, Nvidia have shipped some serious numbers of cards into gamers hands regardless of crypto problems. AMD have clearly been shipping f all.

Comparable cards in the price range($600) are the GTX1080ti and RTX2080, in which the 3080 is looking really likely to surpass both during its time frame. And to be honest, the vast majority of cards are not selling for similar prices, they are selling for way more.

If you want demand to go, we need equivalent cards to the mid end, eg the circa 200 quid cards. Right now, they simply just don't exist in the market, so everybody is just upping their budgets.

Homelander

Keyzer wrote: »

I have zero sympathy for this person.

I can't get over him, zero interest in all his overpriced ads and he's constantly deleting them and re-uploading them at higher prices.

Ancient R9 380 has now increased to €250 despite zero comments or interest in it at €220. The RX580 is now €800.

What planet do people like this on. Reminds me of the idiots who actually thought Flappy Bird increased their phones value by 5x and were trying to sell them on Adverts.

H3llR4iser

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

But your not comparing like for like, your comparing older low end cheaper cards to the new high end cards. The 3080 being out 6 months and being at .74% is bloody impressive, Nvidia have shipped some serious numbers of cards into gamers hands regardless of crypto problems. AMD have clearly been shipping f all.

Comparable cards in the price range($600) are the GTX1080ti and RTX2080, in which the 3080 is looking really likely to surpass both during its time frame. And to be honest, the vast majority of cards are not selling for similar prices, they are selling for way more.

If you want demand to go, we need equivalent cards to the mid end, eg the circa 200 quid cards. Right now, they simply just don't exist in the market, so everybody is just upping their budgets.

Yes, but the fact remains these cards are selling out constantly and they've been doing so for months now. If these ended up primarily within their intended target audience they'd show up more in these stats, there's no escaping that.

Cuddlesworth

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Yes, but the fact remains these cards are selling out constantly and they've been doing so for months now. If these ended up primarily within their intended target audience they'd show up more in these stats, there's no escaping that.

I don't think Nvidia has been making many of the GA104 or GA106 chips, so your correct there about the lower end cards. Why would they though, the high end is the highest profit margin an they can't make enough of them.

Remember, every 3070 or 3060 is just a 3080 that could have sold for more and made Nvidia more money. Same with AMD, if this hadn't coincided with two consoles releases they would be flooding the market with cards.

H3llR4iser

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I don't think Nvidia has been making many of the GA104 or GA106 chips, so your correct there about the lower end cards. Why would they though, the high end is the highest profit margin an they can't make enough of them.

Remember, every 3070 or 3060 is just a 3080 that could have sold for more and made Nvidia more money. Same with AMD, if this hadn't coincided with two consoles releases they would be flooding the market with cards.

That would indeed be a valid reason for the "sold out but not really being used" scenario, along with the scalping and mining issues.

It's just that the narrative that it's "huge demand from gamers stuck into lockdown causing this", that has been pushed around for a while among a bunch of news outlets, is clearly incorrect - or blown out of proportion.

Cuddlesworth

H3llR4iser wrote: »

That would indeed be a valid reason for the "sold out but not really being used" scenario, along with the scalping and mining issues.

It's just that the narrative that it's "huge demand from gamers stuck into lockdown causing this", that has been pushed around for a while among a bunch of news outlets, is clearly incorrect - or blown out of proportion.

Lets go at this again.

The 3080 and the 3090 are the same chip. Both together are 1.03%(.74 and .29).

The equivalent chip in the 2xxx series(2080ti) has registered .78%, sold for 2 years and the Titan isn't there in the survey as a singular card. It has been remarked, it did not sell well in general.

The equivalent chip in the 1xxx series(1080ti) has 1.26% and sold for roughly 2 years. The Titans again, never sold in serious numbers and are not there.

The GA102 chip is on track to outsell the previous 2 generations by a multiple of 4 assuming 2 years on the market. It might even surpass the low end chip of the last gen(TU106). That's nuts.

They are making the cards, the cards are getting into gamers hands. That sort of demand for high end cards is unprecedented. Might be because you can only get high end cards, but still its unheard of.

There isn't a single other card equivalent to the 3090 on that list. There are more active 3090's then 980ti's out there. Thats nuts to me. Its a 1500 quid card.

K.O.Kiki

1 point of contention:

Steam hardware survey might not be comprehensive - we don't know how many machines are polled, nor do we know since when have they been polled (e.g. I haven't clicked a HWSurvey link in months now)

AMD noted this in 2019, too.

It's the only data set we have public access too, but I'd wager Microsoft have a better understanding of the state of the PC market.

Cuddlesworth

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

It's the only data set we have public access too, but I'd wager Microsoft have a better understanding of the state of the PC market.

It's not a perfect dataset but it is a dataset and one of the best we have available(mindfactory would be another). You can make some assumptions, like the relative numbers to each month would be consistent and that crypto would be more Nvidia focused this generation.

I would say the first manufacturer who starts pumping out smaller chips will drop demand significantly but its equivalent to shooting themselves in the foot. Right now, the money chips can't be made fast enough for either company.

cornholio509

.G. wrote: »

This is the thing to be answered. Most of that show seemed to be chatting about RTX on. In reality that applies to very few games right now so most interesting to me anyway will be raster performance comparisons.

I think its 20 odd game that support RTX on . I will hold off on NVIDIA for another while as Ray tracing seems to be a repeat of DX10 and crysis . FOr a long time there was only a few games and all of a sudded , a few years later everything ran DX10/11 .

THe issue i have with NVIDIA at the moment is their attitude of shoving ray tracing down your throat as marketing material . So until i see more games actually supporting raytracing in a mainstream way i will hold onto my 1070 .

Luck100

Nvidia accidentally hacked their own crypto limiter....LOL

https://www.techpowerup.com/279759/nvidia-rtx-3060-hashrate-limited-defeated-geforce-470-05-driver-unlocks-full-mining-performance

Cordell

We're going to nerf the hashing so it's unbreaka....aaaaand it's gone.

TheValeyard

Cordell wrote: »

We're going to nerf the hashing so it's unbreaka....aaaaand it's gone.

Here ya go

randomlad1337

Prices on Adverts have gone mad
MSI gaming trio for €1,100
thats the state of the market
https://www.adverts.ie/other-computers/12gb-msi-geforce-rtx-3060-gaming-x-trio/23168785

dreamers75

randomlad1337 wrote: »

Prices on Adverts have gone mad
MSI gaming trio for €1,100
thats the state of the market
https://www.adverts.ie/other-computers/12gb-msi-geforce-rtx-3060-gaming-x-trio/23168785

Jaysis I sold a 3060ti for €489 (exactly what I paid for it) when I got the 3080s.

Could have a few quid on that

Icyseanfitz

dreamers75 wrote: »

Jaysis I sold a 3060ti for €489 (exactly what I paid for it) when I got the 3080s.

Could have a few quid on that

if you ever want to sell those 3080s for what you paid let me know :pac:

Mr Crispy

Looks like there was a 3090 FE drop this morning. Did anyone here try for one?

Retr0gamer

Mr Crispy wrote: »

Looks like there was a 3090 FE drop this morning. Did anyone here try for one?

I was in bed asleep....

BuCkoTroN

Jaysus €2713 for a EVGA FTW 3090

That is robbery!!!

https://www.caseking.de/en/evga-geforce-rtx-3090-ftw3-ultra-gaming-24576-mb-gddr6x-gcev-422.html

Instock BTW

Cuddlesworth

BuCkoTroN wrote: »

Jaysus €2713 for a EVGA FTW 3090

That is robbery!!!

https://www.caseking.de/en/evga-geforce-rtx-3090-ftw3-ultra-gaming-24576-mb-gddr6x-gcev-422.html

Instock BTW

They seem to be the same company as OC uk, who have been shamelessly selling cards at stupid markups and caseking are doing the same(they have 1k+ 3060's there). I'm a bit surprised distributors are still giving them stock. Seems like everybody but AMD and Nvidia are making out like bandits.

Retr0gamer

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

They seem to be the same company as OC uk, who have been shamelessly selling cards at stupid markups and caseking are doing the same(they have 1k+ 3060's there). I'm a bit surprised distributors are still giving them stock. Seems like everybody but AMD and Nvidia are making out like bandits.

And they are all blaming each other. AMD and Nvidia are blaming the OEMs who are blaming the retailers who are blaming the OEMs who are blaming AMD and Nvidia for jacking up prices.

If AMD can sell their cards for cost somebody in the chain is being an arsehole and jacking up prices and I'm pretty sure its on the retail side.

BuCkoTroN

Retr0gamer wrote: »

And they are all blaming each other. AMD and Nvidia are blaming the OEMs who are blaming the retailers who are blaming the OEMs who are blaming AMD and Nvidia for jacking up prices.

If AMD can sell their cards for cost somebody in the chain is being an arsehole and jacking up prices and I'm pretty sure its on the retail side.

OC-UK are shady as hell and their customer support is atrocious.

Not surprising that them and their sister company are jacking up the prices of cards.

A mad idea here,

You would think that Nvidia/AMD would put their reference cards into priority production, then sell them directly at MSRP and give the partners a smaller share of the chips.

That would probably help drive down the ridiculous scalping from the retailers and level out the pricing.

Retr0gamer

BuCkoTroN wrote: »

OC-UK are shady as hell and their customer support is atrocious.

Not surprising that them and their sister company are jacking up the prices of cards.

A mad idea here,

You would think that Nvidia/AMD would put their reference cards into priority production, then sell them directly at MSRP and give the partners a smaller share of the chips.

That would probably help drive down the ridiculous scalping from the retailers and level out the pricing.

More profit selling to OEMs.

Tomtom364

Paid significantly more then I probably should have.
But Asus ROG Strix 3070 O8G White is on its way to me and I regret nothing!

Wonda-Boy

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

They seem to be the same company as OC uk, who have been shamelessly selling cards at stupid markups and caseking are doing the same(they have 1k+ 3060's there). I'm a bit surprised distributors are still giving them stock. Seems like everybody but AMD and Nvidia are making out like bandits.

Yeah, they are the parent company of OCUK. I bought my complete system there before the big breakout of the virus last August and they were competitive with the prices.

But I had a few little issues with the customer service and when one of my lilan li Strimer cables went belly up they were over a month sorting it out.

This is a mad thing to say but I am so happy I paid 1700 euro for my 3090 and done with all this (but that is stupid money for a GPU alone :mad: )

Cuddlesworth

I was curious and they seem to be similar pricing to mindfactory. So either mindfactory is doing the same thing or they use a similar distributor in Germany.Europe who is jacking up prices.

Rob2D

What an awful time for me to need a GPU.

I was looking around and it seems the best value right now is to actually buy an XPS tower from Dell (i9-11900K, 16GB RAM & 3060ti) for €1419 rather than just buying a GPU on it's own. 3060ti prices are pretty much at or just below that on Ebay now anyway.

laneooo

Just seen on caseking that 3090's now are pushing 3000 euro...this is getting worse.