Nvidia RTX Discussion

Cordell

One would think that given the 970 debacle they won't even think about doing something similar again.

Simi

I remember a lot of noise about that at the time, but it didn't hurt sales much. Only a small percentage of buyers will actually read about these things or watch tech YouTubers to know. The vast majority only look into graphics cards when they're looking to buy one and then go back to not paying attention until the next time they want one. They're not going to notice the missing 5% and probably won't hear or read about it.

Cordell

It wasn't just noise, it was a class action suit which resulted in a 30$ compensation for every card sold. It did sting them a bit, with the legal cost and bad publicity.

Icyseanfitz

Im on a supply drop app and I've 5080s on my alerts, it's crazy how quickly they are sold at 1500+ euro, literally 2 minutes after going up on Amazon and they are gone, madness

K.O.Kiki

RTX 5070 is out.

LOL

Slutmonkey57b

Gamers Nexus review is very entertaining!

Real pity they can't give us any idea how the 9070 xt performs though. 24 hour wait might kill us all!

K.O.Kiki

RTX 5070 Founders Edition won't be available at launch, even!

🤣

Icyseanfitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123231936#Comment_123231936

Tomorrow will be interesting 😁

Inviere

I despair with gpu's. I'm still on a 1080Ti, and since the 20xx launch, there's been a reason every single generation to hold off until the next.

The 20 series didn't offer much of a generational uplift, for considerable added cost.

The 30 series offered a nice uplift, but were unobtanium due to Covid, extreme demand, and marked a big price increase due to scalping.

The 40 series, again unobtanium for scalping reasons, concerns with the 12vhpwr connector on the 4080/4090 boards, stupid pricing.

The 50 series, more of the same. Scalping, apparent downgrading of the tiers to lower tiers higher prices, same power connector concerns, now we have cases of missing rop's, driver issues, and here anyway, ridiculous pricing.

Seems to be the new norm, and I don't mind biting the bullet on an 80 class card, but with these issues it's hard not to keep waiting until next gen, next gen, next gen....

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123260435#Comment_123260435

Come back in April and try for an RX 9070 (XT)?

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123260578#Comment_123260578

Yep, it's looking like a move to team red for me. But again, as they're only targeting the mid range for this gen, do I wait for their next generation flagship card instead?

rob808

Overclocker UK have 9070 xt there now to buy

Slutmonkey57b

Does "flagship" mean anything other than "ridiculous pricing" anymore? In 10 years GPU prices have tripled.

They are using flim flam tactics to fake "4k" or "fps" figures without actually delivering either for real.

Until gamers stick to a budget, the manipulation and lies will continue. "I don't mind spending the money" …we should! We've got nothing to lose. Do games really look better than they did 10 years ago? How much better? Enough to justify the price?

Cordell

The reality is that these GPUs are selling like hot cakes because, believe it or not, they do offer good value for money. They didn't go up in price 3 times over the last 10 years, not on mainstream GPUs anyway. GTX 970 MSRP was $330, adjusted for inflation that is $445, RTX 5070 MSRP is 550. Considering the lack of real competition I'd say that quite good.

Also you need to consider that 10 years ago the technology was advancing at a much higher pace, which is both good and bad, the bad part being that your new shiny GPU would become obsolete faster than it happens now when you could still game at the mainstream level with a 3000 series GPU.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123261266#Comment_123261266

MSRP would be a good data point if these cards were actually available to Irish customers at that price.

I got a 970 for €369 (VAT inclusive) in 2015, from Komplett (as they were then). Pretty much in line with RRP.

Even setting aside the 5070 (which I haven't seen available for under €700-800 and mostly for much, much more than that), a 4070 will still set you back at least €600-700, depending on how lucky you are with model availability. So even accounting for inflation, the price increase has been pretty significant, and the complete lack of availability of RRP cards has made it many times worse.

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123261330#Comment_123261330

Yeah I don't think there's much point using the MSRP as a basepoint when it's impossible to get a card anywhere close to that price point.

The MSRP for the 5090 is €2,300 including VAT. I don't even see any listed below €3,000 for European retailers.

I'm looking at an ASUS Astral 5090 at the moment and it's listed for €3,670. That's €500 more than the already very high premium MSRP set by ASUS.

I bought my ASUS 4090 Strix two months after it's release for the then MSRP. Big difference this time around, it has been a joke of a launch.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123260973#Comment_123260973

Processing needs have gone up, every node costs more to make, and TSMC has a near-monopoly on GPU production.

The flagship GPU of 2015-2016 (GTX 980 Ti) cost 700 quid - which is where the RX 9070 XT & RTX 5070 Ti now sit. And they're great for current titles at 1440p.

4K - if you care for it - is simply 2.25 as many pixels as 1440p though. So you need exponentially more powerful hardware to drive it, or software solutions (e.g. upscaling).

Pricing being out-of-hand is more down to the fact there's no effective laws against scalping.

minitrue

970 was a 398mm^2 die on 28nm as Intel had released some 14nm cpus having had 22nm (177mm^2) 2.5 years earlier. 5070 is 263mm^2 on 4nm when AMD are still mostly on 4nm cpus (using 70mm^2 CCDs), though the Zen 5C and Intel Arrow Lake cores are on 3nm now. Is the significant difference in die size an equitable trade for the less dated process? Tough to say but I'd say no and harder to argue for the 50 series when it's stayed on 4nm, the same size dies on 3nm wouldn't look as bad to me at these prices, but …

The die size helps show that the 5070 can't really be compared to the 970 when the 970 was a cut down 2nd chip while the 5070 is the 3rd chip. The comparison should be 970 to 5070ti ($750 MSRP lol) or 5070 to 960 ($199). Using your inflation rate that's very roughly $445 to $750 (lol) or $266 to $550 (lol).

They really aren't selling well, there's just extremely limited supply, especially with old cards already cleared out of the market, so what does exist is being snapped up. The nightmare is that so much is coming from TSMCs 4nm production (e.g. all nvidia, amd and intel gpus and most amd cpus) that there's no way for anyone to ramp up supply until more than just Zen 5c, Arrow Lake and Apple have moved onto something better. Fingers crossed TSMCs 2nm (or Intel's or Samsung) is already or imminently going to start useful volume production of something to add capacity and if it's Intel or Samsung it evens creates some competition*. Of course if it's nvidia who jumps first to 3nm (let alone 2nm) we can only expect the prices to get even more astronomical, at least for a 6090 as I could see them only moving it as a cut down "AI" chip over and leaving the rest behind on 4nm which might actually be best for gamers. It doesn't make much sense for gamers to be buying massive chips anywhere close to the bleeding edge of manufacturing processes imho.

As it stands nvidia would rather use their TSMC 4nm wafers to make "AI" chips costing an order of magnitude more than a 5090 (presumably to include the not cut down 5090 chips) and AMD would rather use their time to make Zen 5 where they can get up to $1500/CCD on Epyc Vs $600 for a 9070xt which is 5x the size in terms of TSMC 4nm die and as the bigger the die the more expensive it is by area it's probably 10x or more the cost for less than 40% the revenue (as the ram, cooler, board prices for a graphics card are higher than the io die and packaging for a cpu). Even a $280 9600X (or $264/CCD Epyc 9015) is a much more profitable use of their TSMC time for them than a consumer gpu.

Of course you can make the argument the gpus are therefore cheap because if they were priced like the premium products a 5070 could be $2000+ though really I think it's more the premium products are obscenely priced to the gpus horribly priced but that's what happens when you really only have one supplier of the raw materials (TSMC and ASML).

The small mercy is at least we are a few years off from next gen consoles coming in to soak up more capacity, this all really started when they effectively launched in the same window as Zen 3 and RX6000 (with crypto and covid madness both impacting the market) with the only saving grace at that point being nvidia taking a punt on trying to move to Samsung and Intel were still just producing their stuff in house.

The other possibility for hope is that the fairly wild going's on with the markets could see the "AI" slush funds shrink dramatically at which point AMD/NVidia will need to grab consumer sales fast to restrain the collapse of the markets ideas of their positions and of course they would also have TSMC capacity to use up. This possibility is probably the only reason AMD even bother making gpus at all right now or nvidia make anything below the 5090, if the "AI" madness instead bubbles up even further gamers might be looking at best at a few more release cycles on 4nm bringing back memories of the stagnation of Intel's 4 core 14nm+++++ era so we might end up with something like a $750 7070 in 2027 which is pretty much a 5080.

* I say some competition as I think they are all using ASML so that's still a bottleneck.

Icyseanfitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123260435#Comment_123260435

I was in the same boat (1080 ti) and the same reasons not to upgrade every generation, I finally decided to just buy a 9070xt as the price was decent and the uplift was great. If Nvidia weren't so **** I probably would have bought a 5080 at or even close to it's msrp, and while I could buy a 5090 I won't, it's disgusting even at it's msrp (which lets face it might as well be non existent for any GPU now anyway)

Coyler

Nvdia dropping prices in Europe

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123278299#Comment_123278299

"Nvidia officially adjusts prices as USD devalues, doesn't change squat"

Longing

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0DZD6QV9L?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

MSI at €870 free shipping with prime. Delivery 17 April.

xtal191

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123287031#Comment_123287031

Tempted but it looks to be the most basic of all 5070ti and its pretty loud

Doge

My bad, I posted it in the amd thread and just saw it was posted here now. About €890 delivered with Irish VAT.

TitianGerm

https://amzn.eu/d/5AieK0Z

£979 from Amazon. Close to MSRP?

minitrue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123299455#Comment_123299455

£949 is the FE price. If I worked it out right £926 is $1000 in £ + UK VAT today. So I think it is close.

xtal191

Still not worth the extra over a 5070 ti imo

Icyseanfitz

It's amazing how good 50 series availability has gotten after AMDs launch success

xtal191

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123302252#Comment_123302252

To be honest I'm tempted to cancel my 9070xt Nitro+ pre order and pay the little extra for the 5070 ti now

Icyseanfitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123303060#Comment_123303060

It is the better card if both cost the same, if not I'd just go AMD if only not to support Nvidia at the moment, they clearly throttled supply to inflate prices on top of all the crap they've pulled