Nvidia RTX Discussion

K.O.Kiki

GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Now De-Listed on NVIDIA’s Online Store

Whaaaaat.

L

Genevieve Disgusting Self-improvement wrote: »

Ok now that you have done the research and edited your previous posts with some accurate information, has you opinion on the shares changed? I know what a bull trap is and unlike you it would appear I am not looking at this for the first time today to win an argument.

Look back on the edit times Fitz. You missed my edits at the time, but they weren't retrospective. Edit: You're one to talk about edits you know :P

Also, no. My opinion remains the same. The fundamentals don't support these prices. Now is better than last month, but it's still pretty bad.

Genevieve Disgusting Self-improvement wrote: »

I know what a bull trap is and unlike you it would appear I am not looking at this for the first time today to win an argument.

I haven't touched this in anger since undergrad, but no, it's not the first time I'm looking at this. Please extend me the same courtesy I extend to you in not insulting your level of knowledge.

Genevieve Disgusting Self-improvement wrote: »

Earnings per share means nothing over time as there was a stock dilution a very common practice to raise money. Price earnings ration is what matters if you want to see if a stock is overpriced in comparison of the PE ratio of the comparable shares in the industry, thats why I put in that graph.

Bloody hell Fitz... go back to my first response to you, and look at what I wrote. Price/Earnings was *the very first thing I referenced* in response to you. Back before you started talking down to me on this.

For what it's worth, take your share price, divide it by earnings per share. You've now got your PE ratio. Now, go back to where I was talking about it, and read what I was describing...

Genevieve Disgusting Self-improvement wrote: »

People call bubbles all the time...you can find correlation in pretty much any stock price over time. Stocks go up and stocks go down. The up and down of Nvidia has had very good reasons for it, not just speculation.

Sure, and you can't really call a bubble until after its burst. I know. Still, when you see Price/Earnings of 50ish, and a share price drop of that magnitude, then it starts to look really really dodgy.

Genevieve Disgusting Self-improvement wrote: »

Its not personal, its just your opinion does not seem that informed, but I am glad this discussion has given you the impetus to do the research.

I'm rusty, but not ignorant. I'd appreciate it if you'd extend the courtesy of not talking down to me on it. It's getting under my skin and it's uncalled for.

Genevieve Disgusting Self-improvement wrote: »

No I am not sitting on Nvidia stock,

Are you sure? I mean, it would explain a lot. It'd definitely explain why you don't like to hear anything bad about Nvidia. :P

TitianGerm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Now De-Listed on NVIDIA’s Online Store

Whaaaaat.

Maybe they sold out of all their stock?;)

btkm8unsl0w5r4

L wrote: »

Are you sure? I mean, it would explain a lot. It'd definitely explain why you don't like to hear anything bad about Nvidia. :P

So many quotes :pac::pac:

No I have no nvidia stock....but I did two weeks ago. I only dabble for sport, a few shares here and there. I like to keep my toe in to control my pension.

I will have plenty bad said about Nvidia so long as its logical and fair. Nvidia should beaten with the same stick as all the other,s its just seems people have a extra big stick and hit first and ask questions later.

Yes the card is delisted...more information needed, one page does say out of stock, share prices may drop more on opening if there is a story here, I cant see the RMA numbers being enough for a recall....all board partners have their cards still listed. Beginning to wonder if all this is a founders edition cooler problem, lot of reviewers less than impressed with it.

L

Genevieve Disgusting Self-improvement wrote: »

So many quotes :pac::pac:

I know, it's almost like you give me a million aggravating things that I need to reply to individually all jumbled up in a single bloody paragraph. :pac:

You're ruining my forum replies on me.

It's just a function of their reputation. Nvidia's the market leader. It's like Intel - they're expected to be nigh-on perfect, and when there's a whiff that they might not be, people get interested. On the flipside, the underdog gets people's attention when it overperforms.

I figure it's not the cooler. Test escapes suggests a board or chip problem. Most likely board as a chip issue would be showing up on partner cards as well. My bet is Nvidia aren't certain what batches had dodgy test vectors run on them and are playing it safe until they can work it out.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Now De-Listed on NVIDIA’s Online Store

Whaaaaat.

Nope...seems just another click bait title where the article is done first and the due diligence is done later or never. Its great that having to defend the fake news makes me look like a mentaler. Just because your paranoid doesn't mean there not out to get you

https://wccftech.com/no-nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-has-not-been-delisted/

aindriu80

The name of this thread sounds a bit off now tbf.

tuxy

aindriu80 wrote: »

The name of this thread sounds a bit off now tbf.

It has done for a very long time.
Was on topic again briefly to talk about Battlefield V but has derailed again.

K.O.Kiki

aindriu80 wrote: »

The name of this thread sounds a bit off now tbf.

In fairness, turns out Raytracing is NOT here.

Cuddlesworth

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

In fairness, turns out Raytracing is NOT here.

It is and its everything it was expected to be.

It looks nice.
Its limited in functionality.
It tanks FPS.
Most people won't care.
Most games won't do it.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

It is and its everything it was expected to be.

It looks nice.
Its limited in functionality.
It tanks FPS.
Most people won't care.
Most games won't do it.

Thats exactly what I was told to expect and exactly what I got, just like 4k tanks FPS so does RTX, add em together and you have got unplayable. Interested to see a title with both DLSS and raytracing. Tomb raider will show us the hit with ray traced shadows. It would appear that card run cooler when RTX is on because its raytracing core limited. Seems we need more RTX cores, and I think scaling up that core count is the next step....If you turn it off these cards fly, so if your in the dont care camp there is your answer. Oh and the card are more expensive than the last generation but they are a bit to a lot faster depending on how much extra you pay.

L

Genevieve Disgusting Self-improvement wrote: »

Seems we need more RTX cores, and I think scaling up that core count is the next step....

I know I've said it a lot, but the really low transistor density @12nm seriously surprises me.

I really wonder if these were supposed to be smaller, cheaper dies (direct drop ins for their 10 series counterparts) and there was some architectural complication that made it impossible to reliably hit their minimum core counts without effectively having ablative cores to knock out.

It would explain quite a bit of the odd features, and suggest RTX 2 could be much cheaper (or much more powerful).

Dcully

Great video from Gamers Nexus on raytracing in BFV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaUP4LucmZM

TerrorFirmer

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

It is and its everything it was expected to be.

It looks nice.
Its limited in functionality.
It tanks FPS.
Most people won't care.
Most games won't do it.

Exactly - RTX has delivered exactly what was expected of it from the get-go. I don't think anyone could claim to be dissappionted in the slightest.

People have been accused of wanting to sabotague RTX on this thread, or whatever the reason, being simply jealous.

If RTX had been priced realistically, no-one would've batted an eye at the poor RTX showing, which is to be somewhat expected for an emerging tech.

However, it's the consumer being expected to pay radically over the odds for a new era of cards that are minorly faster conventionally but struggle to be anything other than a meaningless novelty in said new tech that's the gripe.

If RTX2070 was a £349 card, RTX2080 a £449 card, and RTX2080ti a £599 card, bobs your uncle, no complaints at all really. The new tech could be a novelty but the value would remain for the raw speed of the generation, whose primarily purpose would still be the 99% of current games.

And that's exactly what they would've been in a competitive market. As I've said before, ray tracing is not the first leap in visual fidelity and won't be the last. Imagine if when Shader Model 3.0 came out, games only ran at 720p 30fps? But back then AMD and Nvidia were competitive.

But Nvidia aggressively marketed RTX as something way beyond what they are - little different than the GTX series with a novelty, destined to be rarely used feature (due to inability to run said feature) bolted on....and we're expected to pay mad price premiums.

But in 'They live' style, Nvidia was pushing this narrative of "Ray Tracing, Buy, Buy Buy the future"!

As for claims that people are looking for reasons to pick on RTX...hardly. A few pages back it was a discussion point that based on RMA rates, those for the 2080Ti are radically higher than those for the 2080.

There's no conspiracy, it's simply interesting? If people starting posting links that showed RX590's with a a much higher failure rate of RX580's, you think people here wouldn't post about it?

I still think the RTX2080Ti is understandable ala the Titan models. There'll always be a mad premium for the fastest consumer card on earth, no quibbles there at all.

But the RTX2070 and 2080 are just cash-scraping exercises for Nvidia because they can.

We've entered a weird place where people are saying "But the GTX1080 is the same price as the RTX2070, ergo the 2070 is great value!". By saying that, we've basically following Nvidia's strategy like sheep. The 2070 should be a £349 card in a normal competitive market.

They're laughing all the way to the bank with the RTX series.

Serephucus

^ That.

(Excluding the Ti, because Titan) the RTX cards aren't terrible, they're just terrible value.

BloodBath

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Exactly - RTX has delivered exactly what was expected of it from the get-go. I don't think anyone could claim to be dissappionted in the slightest.

People have been accused of wanting to sabotague RTX on this thread, or whatever the reason, being simply jealous.

If RTX had been priced realistically, no-one would've batted an eye at the poor RTX showing, which is to be somewhat expected for an emerging tech.

However, it's the consumer being expected to pay radically over the odds for a new era of cards that are minorly faster conventionally but struggle to be anything other than a meaningless novelty in said new tech that's the gripe.

If RTX2070 was a £349 card, RTX2080 a £449 card, and RTX2080ti a £599 card, bobs your uncle, no complaints at all really. The new tech could be a novelty but the value would remain for the raw speed of the generation, whose primarily purpose would still be the 99% of current games.

And that's exactly what they would've been in a competitive market. As I've said before, ray tracing is not the first leap in visual fidelity and won't be the last. Imagine if when Shader Model 3.0 came out, games only ran at 720p 30fps? But back then AMD and Nvidia were competitive.

But Nvidia aggressively marketed RTX as something way beyond what they are - little different than the GTX series with a novelty, destined to be rarely used feature (due to inability to run said feature) bolted on....and we're expected to pay mad price premiums.

But in 'They live' style, Nvidia was pushing this narrative of "Ray Tracing, Buy, Buy Buy the future"!

As for claims that people are looking for reasons to pick on RTX...hardly. A few pages back it was a discussion point that based on RMA rates, those for the 2080Ti are radically higher than those for the 2080.

There's no conspiracy, it's simply interesting? If people starting posting links that showed RX590's with a a much higher failure rate of RX580's, you think people here wouldn't post about it?

I still think the RTX2080Ti is understandable ala the Titan models. There'll always be a mad premium for the fastest consumer card on earth, no quibbles there at all.

But the RTX2070 and 2080 are just cash-scraping exercises for Nvidia because they can.

We've entered a weird place where people are saying "But the GTX1080 is the same price as the RTX2070, ergo the 2070 is great value!". By saying that, we've basically following Nvidia's strategy like sheep. The 2070 should be a £349 card in a normal competitive market.

They're laughing all the way to the bank with the RTX series.

I have no issue with people focusing on the lack of the RTX titles and the fact the cards are overpriced but not as much as you seem to think.

Considering the die size and GDDR6 alone there is no way in hell the cards were going to be priced the same as last gen. You would have the cut the RT and Tensor cores to that. They should definitely be cheaper though.

Again the return rates are not radically higher. Prove your statement. They are 100% within the normal range. 1.5% - 3.5% are the actual figures. This is people latching onto any click bait article they see when the actual facts go in the face of it.

This is the part I have an issue with. Your statement is verifiably false. I don't know the source for it but it's bull**** and you're still saying it.

A lot of the initial returns were on based on a driver level issue which has been fixed. Maybe stick to reliable sources that do actual testing and verification before printing bull**** click bait articles.

We don't have a normal competitive market. You can blame AMD for that instead of expecting Nvidia to be anything other than they are. A huge corporation trying to please their shareholders by squeezing as much profit out of their products as they can while they have a significant lead. AMD would do the same.

EoinHef

Jaysus comprehension in here is awful.

He said the 2080 ti return rates were high in comparison to the 2080.

L's comments the other day had noting to do with rates of above 5% either. Mearly commenting that the rate was consistent with the one we saw a few weeks ago ie ~1.7%

There is no conspiracy.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

But return rates are a non issue. Anybody coming in would be scared to death with people going on about them. Yes the return rates on the 2080 are less than the 2080ti, but neither is significant. I could suggest the return rates are far better than the 1080ti, but that would be a cheap shot and simply not valid.

Cards going on fire is again a thing that happens and is not a significant issue that should colour your purchasing decision.

Nvidia didnt pull cards over "test escape" issues as was reported. People used to say RTX on would not play 1080p 60 Htz...but when the (to be honest horrible implementation in BFV which can only get better) came out and it did, the bar was raised suddenly.

1080ti pricing has been artificially lowered in the minds of posters to colour the value proposition and the raster speed increases of the new cards has been chosen to show it in the poorest light.

Nvidia stock price has decreased and this is suggested to be due to RTX which its not.

Final Fantasy has discontinued PC support but the new is that DLSS will not come to final fantasy.

The value proposition is one thing but a lot of the attention it gets is mostly virtue signaling. We have had several 2000 euro CPU launches in the interim that have attracted much less attention.

Its fair to say people are making throw away comments, and its difficult to counter them without seeming ranty and fanboish giving people the oppertunity to attack the poster rather than the issue.

No there is no conspiracy either way. RTX does exactly what is says on the tin, its a card for richer gamers and the next card will be better, but thats hardly a point. The lack of 1080ti's will make people even more angry going forward.

Comprehension here is fine, its detail and nuance that people are missing.

Serephucus

Genevieve Disgusting Self-improvement wrote: »

The value proposition is one thing but a lot of the attention it gets is mostly virtue signaling. We have had several 2000 euro CPU launches in the interim that have attracted much less attention.

And here I said I wasn't going to get drawn into this.

Those €2,000 CPUs are workstation-aimed. RTX is being marketed at consumers (gamers). You've the makings of a fruit salad there with all your apples and oranges.

Metric Tensor

Price £|10 Series|20 Series|Vega|Radeon 500
120|1050|-|-|RX 560 (ish)
150|1050 ti|-|-|RX 570
200|1060 3GB|-|-|RX 580
250|1060 6GB|-|-|RX 590
350|1070|-|Vega 56|-
400|1070 ti|-|-|-
500|1080|2070|Vega 64|-
650|1080 ti|-|-|-
750|-|2080|-|-
1200|-|2080 ti|-|-

* Updated table for recent RX price drops


Once the 1080ti cards run out there is a perfect spot on the table for the 2070ti.


Have to keep every price point covered!

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Serephucus wrote: »

And here I said I wasn't going to get drawn into this.

Those €2,000 CPUs are workstation-aimed. RTX is being marketed at consumers (gamers). You've the makings of a fruit salad there with all your apples and oranges.

The i9-9980XE EXTREME EDITION is overclockable. Workstation users use Xeon processors. Its like the titan, they call it one thing to circumvent the value metric, but its mostly purchased by rich gamers and enthusiasts or people who claim to be content creators but are not really. I think its an apples to apples comparison.

L

Genevieve Disgusting Self-improvement wrote: »

Comprehension here is fine, its detail and nuance that people are missing.

I'd normally agree with you on this one Fitz, but Friday night I had to deal with someone else here jumping down my throat on something that bore no resemblance to what I'd actually written.

I normally enjoy (politely ) arguing around things as it gives me a reason to sharpen up my knowledge and break a few of my own preconceptions. That I really didn't enjoy.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

A good back and forth is what its all about, and I feel exactly the same. We need to look at this with a dispassionate eye. RTX is what Nvidia said it would be, most of the negativity is around what people had wished or assumed it would be, rather than the reality. The media are really being total noobs around this, there are only a few outlets that are giving reliable information. There is a strong appetite for negative RTX news and gets such traction that the media outlets are jumping on anything at this stage to get the scoop. For instance with the 2080ti is delisted story, it took me 1 minute to find the page on Nvidia website that listed it as out of stock, why on earth was it reported as delisted?....because thats the news people want to read. People prefer the dramatic and the negative than the boring reality.

On a side note. BF5 is a crap game, the story is derivative and the gun play is weird.

K.O.Kiki

Have to say, it does look pretty nice when it's on.

Dcully

On a side note. BF5 is a crap game, the story is derivative and the gun play is weird.

:eek: the gunplay is fantastic imho easily the best of any games in the series.
I didnt like the alpha or beta but they really pulled it off since then.
As a diehard BF fan to me its a great multiplayer experience,the skill ceiling is high too which is a huge plus.
Ofcourse there are some things that needs changing but overall at this early stage it has huge potential to develop into a classic.
I dont get why they turned their back on some of the historic WW2 theaters of war, what a missed opportunity, a really shocking oversight actually.

K.O.Kiki

I prefer Arena FPS (Quake, UT) to CODfests myself.

tuxy

I like roblox

TerrorFirmer

I outright hate COD at this point but Battlefield is nothing like it at all, it's really just its own thing. Looking forward to getting to grips with BFV tonight.

tuxy

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I outright hate COD at this point but Battlefield is nothing like it at all, it's really just its own thing. Looking forward to getting to grips with BFV tonight.

But what about the story that's an integral part of every battlefield?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Dcully wrote: »

the skill ceiling is high too which is a huge plus.

It makes it so hard to get into the game for a newcomer, you just spawn and run to your death from a unsceen source, its get boring. I know with games I am good at its fun to be good, but its no fun to be a noob and be cannon fodder.