Nvidia RTX Discussion

Wonda-Boy

L wrote: »

At the same time, *something* has Nvidia reacting way more strongly than I'd have predicted.

I was expecting the 30 series to be a significant improvement based on the crap 20 series processes (transistor density was appalling for the 2080 Ti, which suggested poor yields), which they are. However, they're much cheaper, hotter and more power hungry. It feels like Nvidia reaching to make sure they stay ahead of AMD.

Hell, 30 series has shades of an old school "electric heater" AMD design to it.

Maybe they actually learned a lesson from the 2000 series launch....that entire range of cards were ridiculously overpriced.

L

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Maybe they actually learned a lesson from the 2000 series launch....that entire range of cards were ridiculously overpriced.

They weren't overpriced for the silicon in them though. That's the thing. The die sizes on those chips was ridiculous - mm2 per mm2, the 2080Ti was sold cheaper than the 1080Ti.

They were overpriced for the performance they gave, but I think they may have actually been less profitable for Nvidia on a "profit per wafer" basis.

djan

L wrote: »

They weren't overpriced for the silicon in them though. That's the thing. The die sizes on those chips was ridiculous - mm2 per mm2, the 2080Ti was sold cheaper than the 1080Ti.

They were overpriced for the performance they gave, but I think they may have actually been less profitable for Nvidia on a "profit per wafer" basis.

The silicon inside or profit per wafer is largely irrelevant in terms of profitability as the bulk of costs are in R&D and marketing/collaborations. I remember looking at the breakdown costs the manufacturing costs for a 2000 series and it was less than a quarter for the 2080TI's RRP.

The biggest problem was that they simply did not have a valid competitor. AMD's offering was plagued with driver issues, which is a huge issue when the majority of users aren't willing to or are able to flip drivers back and forth. Added to that the lack of RT, it was a hard sell.

L

djan wrote: »

The silicon inside or profit per wafer is largely irrelevant in terms of profitability as the bulk of costs are in R&D and marketing/collaborations. I remember looking at the breakdown costs the manufacturing costs for a 2000 series and it was less than a quarter for the 2080TI's RRP.

The biggest problem was that they simply did not have a valid competitor. AMD's offering was plagued with driver issues, which is a huge issue when the majority of users aren't willing to or are able to flip drivers back and forth. Added to that the lack of RT, it was a hard sell.

Wrong end of the stick man - it's not a matter of the manufacturing costs as a fraction of overall costs (that's more or less always going to be low for physical high tech products), it's that the production throughput has to be able to support the company's costs. In other words, you have a (relatively) constant number of wafers you can make into chips, which means the smaller your die size, the more product you can sell, and the less you have to charge per chip. Die size is a pretty solid proxy for price as a result.

No argument from me on the lack of competition being the issue, Nvidia wouldn't have been able to get away with the prices it needed to support low yield/big die cards if it didn't just need to keep "fastest" in people's minds instead of "best value".

Hyzepher

The word is that with Samsung now part of the manufacturing process, the batches are likely to be better quality and a consistant quality. This allows Nvidia to be more confident in yields and therefore more confident to be more price aggressive. The move to Samsung is pretty significant

Samuel T. Cogley

Wow adverts is getting a lot of GPUs, only seen one sensibly priced which sold almost straight away. (Blower 1080ti for €300)

Hyzepher

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Wow adverts is getting a lot of GPUs, only seen one sensibly priced which sold almost straight away. (Blower 1080ti for €300)

Saw that - prices are really going to fall fast

Squidgy Black

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Wow adverts is getting a lot of GPUs, only seen one sensibly priced which sold almost straight away. (Blower 1080ti for €300)

The battles in the comments are hilarious to read through. So many people just jumping on people's ads telling them that 2080ti is now useless and worth 3-400 euro.

Samuel T. Cogley

I like the lad that pointed out CEX are offering €608 for them. I'd be getting myself down there in all honesty.

Squidgy Black

There's a fair few 2080ti that were previously listed for 1100+ now been dropped to 700.

When the benchmarks release they'll likely drop even further, if the 3070 is close to the performance across the board it'll kill them, even if the 3080 is close (which you would imagine it'll better it) they'll probably still take a further dive considering the €730 retail price.

Homelander

The NVIDIA 3000 series including RTX 3090, 3080 and 3070 are now ONLINE at Overclockers UK for your viewing pleasure.
You cannot place pre-orders yet but you can on the following dates:
- 3090 September 24th 2pm
- 3080 September 17th 2pm
- 3070 October

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/threads/nvidia-rtx-30-series-now-online-at-overclockers-uk-3090-3080-3070.18897451/

Hyzepher

Squidgy Black wrote: »

There's a fair few 2080ti that were previously listed for 1100+ now been dropped to 700.

When the benchmarks release they'll likely drop even further, if the 3070 is close to the performance across the board it'll kill them, even if the 3080 is close (which you would imagine it'll better it) they'll probably still take a further dive considering the €730 retail price.

The way things are going by the end of the year we could see 1080ti at 200-250 and 2080ti for 350-400

EoinHef

At this point id say to people keep their 2080 Tis.

There will only be two GPUs faster than it for now,and one of those is €1499. This is assuming the 3070 is on par not better.

Also the 2080 ti has 11GB of VRAM where the 3070 has 8GB.

Say you took €400 for it,you still need to shell out another €300 minimum for a 3080 that not twice as fast.

Selling doesn't make sense so unless you absolutely need to have the latest and greatest just sit on it:)

Squidgy Black

Zotac 2070 Super selling for 350 on adverts.

Mighty tempting if anyone was looking for a 1440p card immediately.

Hyzepher

The real problem will be the 3060 if there is one. probably close to 2080ti performance at a vert attractive price. Not to mention the AMD offerings

Infini

Squidgy Black wrote: »

The battles in the comments are hilarious to read through. So many people just jumping on people's ads telling them that 2080ti is now useless and worth 3-400 euro.

Yeah if people are looking to buy for 400ish thats obvious lowballing. Same with those thinking they'll get 1000 for their 2080TI now. Isnt just on adverts tho nvidias annoucement yesterday has caused a panic sell of 2080Tis across the board in general because of the 3070 being like €500.

Realistically a 2080TI is about 750 now as it has usb c, nvlink and 11GB ram. Theyre still good cards and not just completely worthless. We still lack important information though specifically performance comparisons.

dreamers75

Going for the 3090, sat out the 20s as they were not worth the cost/increase.

Have a 1080ti

Squidgy Black

Infini wrote: »

Yeah if people are looking to buy for 400ish thats obvious lowballing. Same with those thinking they'll get 1000 for their 2080TI now. Isnt just on adverts tho nvidias annoucement yesterday has caused a panic sell of 2080Tis across the board in general because of the 3070 being like €500.

Realistically a 2080TI is about 750 now as it has usb c, nvlink and 11GB ram. Theyre still good cards and not just completely worthless. We still lack important information though specifically performance comparisons.

Yeah there's still a lot of unknowns without the benchmarks, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them settle around 600 or so after benchmarks. I think the rumoured 3070ti/super that is rumoured to be released at some stage in the future with 10gb vram will be the true competition for the 2080ti if the regular 3070 is close to it at all.

Although unless you were going for a 3090 I can't imagine why you'd sell a 2080ti at all. It'll still be a stellar card.

AlmightyCushion

Infini wrote: »

Yeah if people are looking to buy for 400ish thats obvious lowballing. Same with those thinking they'll get 1000 for their 2080TI now. Isnt just on adverts tho nvidias annoucement yesterday has caused a panic sell of 2080Tis across the board in general because of the 3070 being like €500.

Realistically a 2080TI is about 750 now as it has usb c, nvlink and 11GB ram. Theyre still good cards and not just completely worthless. We still lack important information though specifically performance comparisons.

Isn't the 3080 going to be 700 euro. Why would anyone buy a used 2080Ti for the same price as a new 3080 which is looking like a much better card.

TheValeyard

Probably going to get a 3090, very least a 3080. Thunk that be future proofing your gaming for next few years.

Currently have a 1080TI, beast of a card and have done me well these past few years.

Infini

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Isn't the 3080 going to be 700 euro. Why would anyone buy a used 2080Ti for the same price as a new 3080 which is looking like a much better card.

3080 doesnt have nvlink. On its own it would beat a 2080TI easily but I'd wonder if this would still be the case with 2 of them together. FFXIV uses this and it definately gives me significant uplift compared to one on its own.

I'm waiting on at least a 3080TI variant with nvlink before I consider a purchase.

.G.

EoinHef wrote: »

At this point id say to people keep their 2080 Tis.

There will only be two GPUs faster than it for now,and one of those is €1499. This is assuming the 3070 is on par not better.

Also the 2080 ti has 11GB of VRAM where the 3070 has 8GB.

Say you took €400 for it,you still need to shell out another €300 minimum for a 3080 that not twice as fast.

Selling doesn't make sense so unless you absolutely need to have the latest and greatest just sit on it:)

Yep its madness. Especially in the absence of any real world testing of the new cards yet. I'll be keeping mine either way, It does everything I need it to for the moment without breaking a sweat, only game that gives it trouble is FS 2020 at 4k and that's cos I like to have all the bells a whistles on but its still completely fine running it at that.

I'll be holding out till next year at least before I go new GPU.

Mr Crispy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-twYtaBdlU

BArra

ive sold off a mint 1080ti aorus for 350, decided the vibes coming from reviewers even though they dont have cards to test that it was time to jump ship based of the initial info

took a punt to get it gone before it could be worth even less

maybe it will turn out i was wrong but nvidia blindsided everyone

Thierry12

2ndcoming wrote: »

As someone who's only ever had AMD graphics cards, I'd be very sceptical of their ability to match the 3080 with their next batch of cards.

Based on everything they've done in the GPU division for the past 5 or even 10 years I'd say their goal was to beat the 2080Ti with a $400 or so card. Nvidia's pricing here is a pretty aggressive maneouvre I would say based off this expectation also.

Now they could surprise us all, but it would be a very big surprise for them to be able to catch and pass the people they've been playing catch up to for years, in the process completely blowing away anything they've ever done before and deliver it at less then $700.

Think they will easily beat 2080ti

The gpu in the XSX is in not far away from 2080ti, in 2080 Super+ territory and it's only got 52cu, that will likely only be a mid range 299/349 card like 7850/7870 when PS4 released

Big Navi supposedly has 80cu with a similar core clock and much faster ram, it will be easily 50% faster than what's in the XSX

Looking at 30-40% faster than 2080ti minimum then, around 3080 level

Infini

BArra wrote: »

ive sold off a mint 1080ti aorus for 350, decided the vibes coming from reviewers even though they dont have cards to test that it was time to jump ship based of the initial info

took a punt to get it gone before it could be worth even less

maybe it will turn out i was wrong but nvidia blindsided everyone

Thing is over on the nvidia reddit they have a post from msi saying theres no preorders and rumors of low yields as well.

Its making me wonder if these new 3xxx series will even be easily available this side of christmas as demand might leave cards sold out for a long time. Might allow us 2080Ti owners some reprive to sell for better value!

Squidgy Black

Infini wrote: »

Thing is over on the nvidia reddit they have a post from msi saying theres no preorders and rumors of low yields as well.

Its making me wonder if these new 3xxx series will even be easily available this side of christmas as demand might leave cards sold out for a long time. Might allow us 2080Ti owners some reprive to sell for better value!

Overclockers have said "they're expecting good volume" for the AIB cards so not sure. Could go either way to be honest.

Hyzepher

Doesn't really matter as once AMD release the 2nd hand market will drop like a stone

Infini

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Overclockers have said "they're expecting good volume" for the AIB cards so not sure. Could go either way to be honest.

Yeah it all comes down to supply and demand in the end as well as price, I didnt get my RTX 2080TIs till January last year because it was hard to get em at a decent price. Ironically imported mine from Amazon.com because it was cheaper to do so than pay for them from the UK or Europe even including the import charges and becausw it was so difficult to get the things then as it was. I couldnt be bothered with a 3080 as I got my cards in nvlink in my own system and the games I play work well expecially FF14.

I've a PG35VQ 200hz ultrawide and PG27UQ 4k144 displays so I'm tempted on the 3090 though I might consider a 3080TI if they launch it with nvlink. Im not jumping on the OMGWTF sell your 2080TI bandwagon either right now as we neither have benchmarks nor wether these cards will be easily available.

Regardless I regret nothing on my 2080TI's I sold my old 1080TIs to part finance my upgrade and I got 2 good years of use out of them as it is. I likely wont be able to realistically get an upgrade this side of Chrismas due to demand anyways and my existing stuff does the job easily.

Wonda-Boy

Well it really depends on what card you have right now.....if I had a 280 or a 280ti I would be in no rush at all. These cards while very overpriced at launch did not become bad cards overnight!!!

I on the other hand have a Ryzen 9 build on its way and only have a GTX1060 (6GB) card here so the RTX3080 is a no brainer considering I was days away from getting the RTX2080 for €850.

I would not consider a RTX3070 as it does not have the 6X memory modules off the 3080 or 3090....so 3080 minimum for me!