Sweden Riots

WinnyThePoo

batgoat wrote: »

It was pretty clear what he meant, in much the same way we can comfortably say that immigration is not considered a big concern of the electorate in Ireland. Neither Identity Ireland or Renua look likely to pick up votes at any point in near future.

People have jobs, kids, bills, mortgages, medical issues, financial worries & a plethora of other issues before immigration would even come in their minds.

But to a few Immigration is should be the single worry everyone on this Island should worry about:D

AndrewJRenko

SnakePlissken wrote: »

We had a vote last night.

Was it the Identity Ireland national meeting? How did it go - three people in favour and one person against?

The_Kew_Tour

Well if voting means the be all and end all then Ireland has elected Fascist Right Wing party and ye are all Nazis.

Odhinn

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Well if voting means the be all and end all then Ireland has elected Fascist Right Wing party and ye are all Nazis.

Worser again - blue shirts.

CosmicJay

Potatoeman wrote: »

That’s about non-EU countries but the other poll is specifically muslims. Big difference.

The economist also holds the opinion that Germany's model dealing with refugees and migrants is working wonders, that it should be an example for other countries to follow.

So, forgive me if I take everything they say with a pinch of salt.

CowGoesMoo100

This is what happens. Even one of the the most docile, peaceful countries in the world is at threat when borders are opened.

PlaneSpeeking

CosmicJay wrote: »

The economist also holds the opinion that Germany's model dealing with refugees and migrants is working wonders, that it should be an example for other countries to follow.

So, forgive me if I take everything they say with a pinch of salt.

What on earth could that be based on ?????

I lived and worked in Sweden for some time in the 90s so I know and have huge meas for that society. It was certainly a massive inspiration to me in terms of environmental awareness and progressiveness (we weren't even recycling in Ireland at the time).

However, the Swedes really are undermining their own values by judgements such as the following in today's news. For such a progressive society to make themselves hostages to medieval backwardness, medieval ignorance and conceit on so many levels makes the world a less progressive and enlightened place.

Sweden Muslim woman who refused handshake at job interview wins case

A Swedish Muslim woman has won compensation after her job interview was ended when she refused a handshake.

Farah Alhajeh, 24, was applying for a job as an interpreter when she declined to shake the hand of a male interviewer for religious reasons...

PlaneSpeeking

Deleted User wrote: »

I lived and worked in Sweden for some time in the 90s so I know and have huge meas for that society. It was certainly a massive inspiration to me in terms of environmental awareness and progressiveness (we weren't even recycling in Ireland at the time).

However, the Swedes really are undermining their own values by judgements such as the following in today's news. For such a progressive society to make themselves hostages to medieval backwardness, medieval ignorance and conceit on so many levels makes the world a less progressive and enlightened place.

Sweden Muslim woman who refused handshake at job interview wins case

A Swedish Muslim woman has won compensation after her job interview was ended when she refused a handshake.

Farah Alhajeh, 24, was applying for a job as an interpreter when she declined to shake the hand of a male interviewer for religious reasons...

We do that too.

We have to check beforehand who will and will not shake hands with women. It's a pain in the arse quite frankly.

PlaneSpeeking

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

We do that too.

We have to check beforehand who will and will not shake hands with women. It's a pain in the arse quite frankly.

"We", as in the Irish? I've never heard of any Irish person who refuses to shake hands with a woman.

inforfun

Deleted User wrote: »

I lived and worked in Sweden for some time in the 90s so I know and have huge meas for that society. It was certainly a massive inspiration to me in terms of environmental awareness and progressiveness (we weren't even recycling in Ireland at the time).

However, the Swedes really are undermining their own values by judgements such as the following in today's news. For such a progressive society to make themselves hostages to medieval backwardness, medieval ignorance and conceit on so many levels makes the world a less progressive and enlightened place.

Sweden Muslim woman who refused handshake at job interview wins case

Read about that earlier today.
The company was really in a pickle there because they also cant hire people who will discriminate their customers, in this case by this woman not shaking hands.

Swedish article, just google translate it

PlaneSpeeking

Deleted User wrote: »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

We do that too.

We have to check beforehand who will and will not shake hands with women. It's a pain in the arse quite frankly.

"We", as in the Irish? I've never heard of any Irish person who refuses to shake hands with a woman.

My College.

Greentopia

Deleted User wrote: »

I lived and worked in Sweden for some time in the 90s so I know and have huge meas for that society. It was certainly a massive inspiration to me in terms of environmental awareness and progressiveness (we weren't even recycling in Ireland at the time).

However, the Swedes really are undermining their own values by judgements such as the following in today's news. For such a progressive society to make themselves hostages to medieval backwardness, medieval ignorance and conceit on so many levels makes the world a less progressive and enlightened place.

Sweden Muslim woman who refused handshake at job interview wins case

But this: "Her refusal to shake hands on religious grounds was protected by the European Convention on Human Rights, it said," says the ruling was informed by European law common to all member states.

I have zero respect for any religion but this woman didn't do anything that was detrimental to how she would do her job and she offered a greeting in her own way. When the prospective employers gave her the interview they surely would have known she was likely to be Muslim by her name and therefore she may well not be able to shake the hand of someone. The company should have protocols on how to deal with this.

How have they made themselves hostage to medieval backwardness in this case? or are you talking about how Muslims are treated there in general?

They would see that ruling as an example of their progressiveness btw.

weldoninhio

Greentopia wrote: »

But this: "Her refusal to shake hands on religious grounds was protected by the European Convention on Human Rights, it said," says the ruling was informed by European law common to all member states.

I have zero respect for any religion but this woman didn't do anything that was detrimental to how she would do her job and she offered a greeting in her own way. When the prospective employers gave her the interview they surely would have known she was likely to be Muslim by her name and therefore she may well not be able to shake the hand of someone. The company should have protocols on how to deal with this.

How have they made themselves hostage to medieval backwardness in this case? or are you talking about how Muslims are treated there in general?

They would see that ruling as an example of their progressiveness btw.

Is there a specific passage in the Quran that prohibits women from shaking the hand of a man??

Does she have to have a male relative with her every time she goes out?

Or is Islam a la carte, where you can pick and choose what religious grounds you want protected??

blinding

Is there any danger of a Swedish IRA starting up to hold on to their Country ?

Not everyone sees the funny side of giving Their Country away to foreigners .

Greentopia

inforfun wrote: »

Read about that earlier today.
The company was really in a pickle there because they also cant hire people who will discriminate their customers, in this case by this woman not shaking hands.

Swedish article, just google translate it

Then why did they give an interview to a Muslim woman (her name would tell them she was likely to be) if they weren't prepared to accept her way of greeting them and their clients? it's not like how Muslim women show greetings is unknown in Sweden.

Either accept her way of greeting at the selection stage and give her an interview for the job, or decide at the selection stage that this women would not be suitable for the job because this could be a potential problem for them and their customers and bin her application. It was idiotic to call her for an interview then cancel it because of this and lead her out of the office in tears feeling like crap when they should have known better. Someone dropped the ball on this and the company ended up paying the price.

tuxy

blinding wrote: »

Is there any danger of a Swedish IRA starting up to hold on to their Country ?

IRA? No this is not the kind of incidents that would encourage a socialist paramilitary group to form.

There are vigilante neo nazi groups but they have small number and of course cause as many problems as they solve.

pumpkin4life

blinding wrote: »

Is there any danger of a Swedish IRA starting up to hold on to their Country ?

Not everyone sees the funny side of giving Their Country away to foreigners .

Depends on how spiritually dead the people are. How spiritually dead/depressed are the Swedes? They seem a long way down that road. How bad will things get in the future? How many distractions will there be for people?

One of the consequences of this is the public sector/the politicians/the academics and the idiot twenty something with a degree in English, are those people going to admit that they could be wrong? Probably not. We have a bizarre situation whereby the governments in these countries are working actively against the will and good of the people.

Also, the targets would not necessarily be immigrants. Look at that Breivik lad in 2011, he went after Norwegian leftists for example.

Greentopia

weldoninhio wrote: »

Is there a specific passage in the Quran that prohibits women from shaking the hand of a man??

Does she have to have a male relative with her every time she goes out?

Or is Islam a la carte, where you can pick and choose what religious grounds you want protected??

I wouldn't have a clue as I'm not Muslim and haven't read the Quran- do you know?, but all that is irrelevant to the specific case in hand anyway.

Most religions have a lot of a la carte picking and choosing what their adherents will follow, we only have to look at Catholicism for that. Why should Islam be any different?

Greentopia

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Depends on how spiritually dead the people are. How spiritually dead/depressed are the Swedes? They seem a long way down that road. How bad will things get in the future? How many distractions will there be for people?

Spiritually depressed? what does that mean? :pac:

If you mean how irreligious are they...very. About 80% atheist and agnostic if I remember correctly. One of the reasons I fitted in well there.
They rank highly on quality of life indicators and health outcomes in international league tables so their lack of "spirituality" does not impact on their health and wellbeing. They are a highly educated populace. Highly educated people feel no need for religious fairytales or nebulous spiritual woo.
Don't know what you mean by "distractions". Clarify please?

pumpkin4life wrote: »

One of the consequences of this is the public sector/the politicians/the academics and the idiot twenty something with a degree in English, are those people going to admit that they could be wrong? Probably not. We have a bizarre situation whereby the governments in these countries are working actively against the will and good of the people.

Except in the case of Sweden at least the citizens of that country have consistently voted over many decades for parties that endorse a multicultural society and liberal immigration laws - their guest worker programs go back to the 1950s. If there were enough who were unhappy about it their politicians would have had to respond and changed their policies if they wished to get re-elected.

inforfun

Greentopia wrote: »

Then why did they give an interview to a Muslim woman (her name would tell them she was likely to be) if they weren't prepared to accept her way of greeting them and their clients? it's not like how Muslim women show greetings is unknown in Sweden.

Either accept her way of greeting at the selection stage and give her an interview for the job, or decide at the selection stage that this women would not be suitable for the job because this could be a potential problem for them and their customers and bin her application. It was idiotic to call her for an interview then cancel it because of this and lead her out of the office in tears feeling like crap when they should have known better. Someone dropped the ball on this and the company ended up paying the price.

How about her accepting the way of greeting in Sweden?

And yes, they were probably aware they were dealing with a muslim. But how the **** should they know this was 1 of the non handshaking kind?

And deciding to bin her application at the selection stage? You think that there was any mention of this on her application?
And if so, that in Sweden of all places they wouldnt have taken precautions to avoid this?

And seeing this is a business in translations\translators i can see that the fact that she is a muslim and speaking a certain language Ove or Henke is nt capable of, might just have been the point of inviting her.

Kivaro

inforfun wrote: »

How about her accepting the way of greeting in Sweden?

Imagine what would happen if the interviewer, knowing that she was Muslim, did not offer his out his hand like he did with the other candidates?
She could easily brought that case to the European Convention on Human Rights because she was not treated the same way as the other candidates.
The interviewer was screwed either way, so what does he do?

Indigenous people in their home countries should not have to adapt to the archaic, nonsensical and non-practical customs of people who want to bring their way of life with them.

topper75

As a Presbyterian, I might to over there on a cheap Ryanair flight and see if I can find any 7-11 shop open on a Sunday. Massive windfall coming my way in the courts. They should respect my religious customs.
That is how she got to sue right - they didn't respect her religious customs.

inforfun

Kivaro wrote: »

Imagine what would happen if the interviewer, knowing that she was Muslim, did not offer his out his hand like he did with the other candidates?
She could easily brought that case to the European Convention on Human Rights because she was not treated the same way as the other candidates.
The interviewer was screwed either way, so what does he do?

Indigenous people in their home countries should not have to adapt to the archaic, nonsensical and non-practical customs of people who want to bring their way of life with them.

Every time i read stories like this i get more convinced they are just trolling the country they were welcomed in.

About 10 years ago there was this lawyer in Rotterdam, Mr Enait who for whatever reason applied for the job of customer manager at the social welfare office in the same city.
During the interview het let know that he would not shake the hand of women because of his muslimness.
So that was the end of that job interview and of course mr Enait went to court, representing himself in discrimination case.
He needed the spot lights on him there as well so he refused to stand up when the judge entered the court room.

All this waving of the middle finger to Dutch society did however, was piss off the wrong people who started digging.
in 2015 he was suspended for life as a lawyer because it came out he billed a client €12.000 for 1 hour work and sent death threats when this wasnt paid.
Another high light was the fact he had a picture of Sasha Grey Anetta keys next to the name of his secretary on the "who are we" part of his business website.
So now he is commonly know as the Porn Lawyer.

SnakePlissken

SnakePlissken wrote: »

As you claim to know Sweden more than the rest of us, can you or "your friend" name one single positive to their lax immigration policies and its resulting influx of uneducated young males from cultures known for their intolerance toward women and the LGTB community?

So nobody can answer this question? Let's cut the bulls$%t, of course Sweden's lax policies have been to the detriment of the native populace, how can anyone argue otherwise?

inforfun

SnakePlissken wrote: »

So nobody can answer this question? Let's cut the bulls$%t, of course Sweden's lax policies have been to the detriment of the native populace, how can anyone argue otherwise?

If the left wing (labour) Dutch minister of Housing and integration Ella Voogelaar can only name "colourful clothes and food" as positive things about the multicultural society, what do you expect to hear here?

weldoninhio

inforfun wrote: »

If the left wing (labour) Dutch minister of Housing and integration Ella Voogelaar can only name "colourful clothes and food" as positive things about the multicultural society, what do you expect to hear here?

I'm sure the original letterboxes in Holland weren't black.

end of the road

inforfun wrote: »

How about her accepting the way of greeting in Sweden?

why should she. given she lives in a free society, then how she chooses to greet people is her business.

inforfun

end of the road wrote: »

why should she. given she lives in a free society, then how she chooses to greet people is her business.

That was a reaction on someone suggesting the Swedes accept her way of greeting.

Why should they?

end of the road

inforfun wrote: »

That was a reaction on someone suggesting the Swedes accept her way of greeting.

Why should they?

why shouldn't they?

blinding

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/17/brave-muslim-woman-rips-hijab-off-cleric-told-not-appropriate-7850232/

Are the Swedes getting this sort of stuff yet ?

RandomName2

end of the road wrote: »

why should she. given she lives in a free society, then how she chooses to greet people is her business.

It will come as no surprise that I agree. She should be able to thumb her nose at her interviewer if she likes. The interviewer should also be entitled to not offer her the job for this reason. As you say, it's meant to be a free society.

dr.fuzzenstein

Kivaro wrote: »

Imagine what would happen if the interviewer, knowing that she was Muslim, did not offer his out his hand like he did with the other candidates?
She could easily brought that case to the European Convention on Human Rights because she was not treated the same way as the other candidates.
The interviewer was screwed either way, so what does he do?

Indigenous people in their home countries should not have to adapt to the archaic, nonsensical and non-practical customs of people who want to bring their way of life with them.

And do what? Grab her hand and force her to shake yours? Maybe with a haughty "that's how we do this here and so will you!"
I mean ferfcuksake she didn't want to shake hands for whatever reasons and the usual howler monkeys are jumping up and down about it. What if someone has asperger and physical contact drives them nuts? Or someone just isn't into it?
You cannot force physical contact onto someone who doesn't want it for whatever fcuking reason.
Someone has a problem with that, THEY are the problem.

Sand

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And do what? Grab her hand and force her to shake yours? Maybe with a haughty "that's how we do this here and so will you!"
I mean ferfcuksake she didn't want to shake hands for whatever reasons and the usual howler monkeys are jumping up and down about it. What if someone has asperger and physical contact drives them nuts? Or someone just isn't into it?
You cannot force physical contact onto someone who doesn't want it for whatever fcuking reason.
Someone has a problem with that, THEY are the problem.

Shaking hands is a typical greeting in European societies. If someone is violently against shaking hands, it is they who have the problem when they find themselves in Europe. People have to adjust to the society they find themselves in.

If migrants to Sweden don't adjust to Swedish society, who is going to assimilate who in the end? That court which ruled in favour of the woman in this case is bent on its own demise.

Kivaro

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And do what? Grab her hand and force her to shake yours? Maybe with a haughty "that's how we do this here and so will you!"
I mean ferfcuksake she didn't want to shake hands for whatever reasons and the usual howler monkeys are jumping up and down about it. What if someone has asperger and physical contact drives them nuts? Or someone just isn't into it?
You cannot force physical contact onto someone who doesn't want it for whatever fcuking reason.
Someone has a problem with that, THEY are the problem.

Dude. Chill. You'll strain something.
I know better, as many do, not to even reach out to shake hands with a Muslim woman if she is wearing a burka, niqab or even a hijab.
If someone has Asperger's and physical contact drives them nuts, then that someone should clearly state that situation upon introduction.

The staff at the company she was interviewing for are required to treat men and women equally and the company does not allow a staff member to refuse a handshake based on gender.

The handshake has been used around the planet for about a bazillion years. Seems now they have to be careful with it in Sweden.
Those whacky Swedes and their ultra-liberal ways.

She received 40,000 kronor in compensation, so it's all good.

end of the road

RandomName2 wrote: »

It will come as no surprise that I agree. She should be able to thumb her nose at her interviewer if she likes. The interviewer should also be entitled to not offer her the job for this reason. As you say, it's meant to be a free society.

the interviewer shouldn't be entitled to not offer her the job for this reason, as it could potentially be a way to not offer her the job because of her religion if it was allowed.

Sand wrote: »

That court which ruled in favour of the woman in this case is bent on its own demise.

how so. it simply rules in relation to the laws as set out. it doesn't make rulings to piss off people for the craic.
sometimes courts make rulings we agree with and other times not.

Greentopia

inforfun wrote: »

How about her accepting the way of greeting in Sweden?

Because it's a liberal democracy where people are allowed to greet others in ways they themselves wish to and feel comfortable according to their beliefs so long as it's done in a way that's respectful? I don't see the problem as she was being respectful by greeting in her own way-hand over heart and I'm sure there was nothing in company policy about the "correct" way to greet.

I think religiously informed behaviours are all nonsense, but I wouldn't choose to get offended over it when they girl was plainly not seeking to cause offence.
I would have just withdrawn my hand and acknowledged her gesture and moved on with the interview. The way they handled this suggests to me
A. they were either caught out and hadn't realised she was Muslim when called to interview even though it's obvious she was likely to have been by her CV, OR
B. They knew she was Muslim and someone took it as a personal affront that she wouldn't take their hand and choose her own form of greeting instead then overreacted.

inforfun wrote: »

And yes, they were probably aware they were dealing with a muslim. But how the **** should they know this was 1 of the non handshaking kind?

The headscarf she wore might have given them a clue she was religious even if her name didn't?? and what's the problem even if they didn't know, they offered a hand to shake and she demurred but greeted them in her own way which she said was done as a genuine and respectful gesture? what kind of asshole stops the interview and marches her out of the office because she doesn't greet in the way they want? what about the reason she's there in the first place?? isn't that more important than how she greets them??

inforfun wrote: »

And deciding to bin her application at the selection stage? You think that there was any mention of this on her application?
And if so, that in Sweden of all places they wouldnt have taken precautions to avoid this?

As I said they would have seen her name so it doesn't take a genius to figure out she was probably Muslim and all that likely goes with that, including her way of greeting. They either accept that or they don't before they decide to grant her an interview.

Added to which she was going for a translators job and so it would have been on her CV what her background was and what her native language was-again putting one and one together.

Also I don't know what languages she was expected to use as part of the job, but if it was her mother tongue of Arabic, Farsi or any other languages spoken in the Islamic world then why not just call ethnic Swedes with the requisite skills and qualifications for interviews if any aspect of being a Muslim was likely to be incompatible with the culture of the company?
It's common sense to know, or should be by anyone who has been in that country any length of time that how she greeted them is the common form of greeting by most Muslim women.

What do you mean in Sweden of all places? Muslims are hired there in many different occupations so yes they should have known better and what to expect. Like I said-someone in the company dropped the ball and didn't consider the fact she may not be able to shake hands as a form of greeting if that was deemed necessary.

She was presumably called to an interview because they liked her CV and she had the relevant qualifications/experience and whatever else so to break off the interview because of her way of greeting seems petty and rather stupid to me.

inforfun wrote: »

And seeing this is a business in translations\translators i can see that the fact that she is a muslim and speaking a certain language Ove or Henke is nt capable of, might just have been the point of inviting her.

Of course, although there are of course ethnic Swedes who speak whatever "certain language" they were looking for, they may have been seeking someone who's mother tongue was Arabic for example. So again they should have known she was likely to be Muslim! a bit of cop on was lacking here.

dr.fuzzenstein

Sand wrote: »

Shaking hands is a typical greeting in European societies. If someone is violently against shaking hands, it is they who have the problem when they find themselves in Europe. People have to adjust to the society they find themselves in.

If migrants to Sweden don't adjust to Swedish society, who is going to assimilate who in the end? That court which ruled in favour of the woman in this case is bent on its own demise.

It's a fcuking handshake. They don't want to, they don't want to.
Throwing a strop over that is immature and childish.

edit:
Oh yeah, and pathetic.

Greentopia

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's a fcuking handshake. They don't want to, they don't want to.
Throwing a strop over that is immature and childish.

Exactly. And you raised an interesting point I hadn't thought of- what about people with conditions that make physical contact difficult if not impossible like people with Aspergers or autism? would that person who threw a strop behave the same way with them as they did this woman? or is it deemed acceptable behaviour because she's a Muslim and she should be damn well taught a lesson in the "correct" way to behave?
Would the people here who have an issue with her also have an issue with an ethnic Swede with Aspergers who took a case like this because they couldn't shake hands?

Seems a clear case of discrimination to me and the courts agreed. I think what people have to understand also is that this issue is about upholding a strongly held ideal in that country- equality. "Alla är lika"- everyone is equal-meaning everyone should have equal value and worth, is a cornerstone of Swedish culture and democracy. Discriminating against someone who chooses a different yet respectful way of greeting goes against that. She believed that and the court agreed. It wasn't about favouring or siding with Muslims or any other religion.

Greentopia

Kivaro wrote: »

The staff at the company she was interviewing for are required to treat men and women equally and the company does not allow a staff member to refuse a handshake based on gender.

Where did it say it was part of company policy? Yes they claimed after the fact that they could not accept other forms of greetings than shaking hands but
unless they had it specifically as written company policy (unlikely) I don't see they had a leg to stand on. It seems unlikely that would be something any in-house lawyer would think would be likely to be legal to include as part of their hiring policy as it would clearly discriminate against those who can't make physical contact for medical reasons also.

And she didn't refuse on gender grounds, she said she didn't shake hands with men or women who she was not related to. So again, that's BS.

Sounds to me like they pulled that reason out of thin air to try to cover themselves and there was no such no hand shaking policy in place until they decided there was when this case came to court!

Kivaro wrote: »

The handshake has been used around the planet for about a bazillion years. Seems now they have to be careful with it in Sweden.
Those whacky Swedes and their ultra-liberal ways.

She received 40,000 kronor in compensation, so it's all good.

Careful? no, just a bit of rudimentary knowledge needed of Islam and observation of how Muslims greet each other in a country where Muslims and their cultural values have become more widely known and expressed? seems like a very basic thing to be aware of to me and I'm not even that familiar with all the tenets and rules of that religion?

And Swedes can be very conservative and traditional in other ways btw. They just try to deal with everyone fairly and give all equal treatment under the law.

SnakePlissken

end of the road wrote: »

inforfun wrote: »

How about her accepting the way of greeting in Sweden?

why should she. given she lives in a free society, then how she chooses to greet people is her business.

A Muslim man can shake hands with members of the opposite sex and yet for Muslim women it is forbidden lest she be seen as some kind of harlet, sounds kinda sexist to me.

Perhaps I'm wrong, and the few of you who have defended this court decision can let me know the exact reason for this disparity between genders.

Greentopia

SnakePlissken wrote: »

A Muslim man can shake hands with members of the opposite sex and yet for Muslim women it is forbidden lest she be seen as some kind of harlet, sounds kinda sexist to me.

Perhaps I'm wrong, and the few of you who have defended this court decision can let me know the exact reason for this disparity between genders.

Maybe it would be better to ask an actual Muslim woman that? I'm sure she would give you better answers than any of us can on that matter.

Like I said I think cultural beliefs and behaviours based on religious doctrine are all a nonsense, but I try to stay out of telling anyone what is correct or incorrect based on my own subjective values and beliefs.

If Muslim women decide they don't want to abide by these behaviours any longer then I'd fully support them because I don't think it does them any favours to be shackled to any patriarchal belief system that restricts their daily lives in such a way; but I trust them to be able to know and understand how, where and when to pick their battles if they should choose to.

Sand

end of the road wrote: »

how so. it simply rules in relation to the laws as set out. it doesn't make rulings to piss off people for the craic.
sometimes courts make rulings we agree with and other times not.

I presume the court is not qualified to apply Sharia. It is in their own interests not to defer to it. They'll ultimately find themselves out of work.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's a fcuking handshake. They don't want to, they don't want to.
Throwing a strop over that is immature and childish.

edit:
Oh yeah, and pathetic.

You're talking about the woman here? Right? European cultural norms must have value in Europe at the very least. Otherwise they are worthless. If you think that is the case, then just say so and spare us the theatrics.

Sand

Greentopia wrote: »

Exactly. And you raised an interesting point I hadn't thought of- what about people with conditions that make physical contact difficult if not impossible like people with Aspergers or autism?

So Islam is equivalent to a disorder like Aspergers or autism? That's what we're now using to excuse this?

warsaw2018

Have to agree with the Swedish court here
I don't want somean touching my wife's hand

batgoat

Sand wrote: »

So Islam is equivalent to a disorder like Aspergers or autism? That's what we're now using to excuse this?

Her point is that there are plenty of people who aren't comfortable with shaking hands for whatever reason. So you could argue they should integrate regardless of how much it puts out of comfort zone.

warsaw2018

batgoat wrote: »

Her point is that there are plenty of people who aren't comfortable with shaking hands for whatever reason. So you could argue they should integrate regardless of how much it puts out of comfort zone.

Well said mat
I've you I. Bit peopleI've never I. U put lry up have to respect there custom not traditions

Greentopia

Sand wrote: »

So Islam is equivalent to a disorder like Aspergers or autism? That's what we're now using to excuse this?

No, it's fundamentally about not discriminating against anyone who chooses a different way of greeting regardless of the underlying reasons for why they do so.

The news article linked previously explained-
The AD- (a special court who's purpose is to conduct judicial reviews in labour laws)- believed that the company's conduct was wrong and agreed with the ruling of the Ombudsman on Discrimination- DO. The court found that in order for Sweden to comply with the requirements of the European Convention, the Discrimination Act must cover this.

"Of course, it is reasonable for an employer to require employees to treat colleagues equally, but one must be able to greet in different ways," says Clas Lundstedt at DO.

Nothing about who this applies to because it applies to all now under their laws.

RandomName2

Greentopia wrote: »

Exactly. And you raised an interesting point I hadn't thought of- what about people with conditions that make physical contact difficult if not impossible like people with Aspergers or autism? would that person who threw a strop behave the same way with them as they did this woman?

If someone if physically incapable of shaking hands due to a psychological or neurological disorder then that's a totally different story. You could theoretically say that being religious is a psychological disorder, but I don't think that would fly.

Greentopia wrote: »

or is it deemed acceptable behaviour because she's a Muslim and she should be damn well taught a lesson in the "correct" way to behave?

There is a correct way to behave. The correct way to behave is to shake someone's hand. Not doing so is deeply offensive. She felt that her personal beliefs trumped causing offense - and that's her perogative. Just don't expect people not to get offended when you do it!

If you are told that the OK symbol is deeply offensive in a country (which it is in some places) and you say, 'I don't care, where I come from we use that symbol all the time', then you are being an arsehole.

She was being an arsehole because she didn't care about their feelings. She probably didn't care if she caused offense because she felt that if she did offend them that she could take them to court. And she did. At least they didn't have to put up with her as an employee, so you could say they got off lightly.

Greentopia wrote: »

this issue is about upholding a strongly held ideal in that country- equality. "Alla är lika"- everyone is equal-meaning everyone should have equal value and worth, is a cornerstone of Swedish culture and democracy.

Her gripe was that they were men.

I'm going to let that sink in with you for a bit.

Edit: I wonder if she had a male escort. If she didn't she's just picking and choosing what dogma she wants to follow.

RandomName2

warsaw2018 wrote: »

I've you I. Bit peopleI've never I. U put lry up have to respect there custom not traditions

I.. what?